Nicole Schwarz, Supporting our Children’s Negative Self Talk

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Transcription

Casey O'Roarty 0:00
Today is episode 39 of the joyful courage parenting podcast.

Hey friends, welcome back to the podcast. I am so glad that you are here, and I'm really excited about today's guest. A few weeks ago, in the live and love with joyful courage Facebook group, which I hope you are all members of, I posted a article written by Nicole Schwartz around helping our kids with negative self talk, meaning like helping them not to be so stuck in that negative self talk that they aren't moving forward with whatever it is that they're trying to do. I loved that article, and many of you loved it as well. It got shared a ton around social media. I reached out to Nicole, the author of that blog post, and said, Please come on the podcast and talk about this. So today's guest is Nicole Schwartz. She runs a website called imperfectfamilies.com she considers herself an imperfect mom to three girls. She's also a parent coach with a license and in family therapy. She's passionate about helping parents use respectful, positive techniques with their kids, and encourages parents to know their own triggers, take a deep breath and try again. Sound familiar, right? That's definitely the approach that I take today. We are gonna go more in depth around this idea of helping our kids navigate their own negative self talk, and we're also gonna make some connections around negative self talk and childhood anxiety. So I'm thrilled to share this conversation with you after you've listened in. If you have any feedback, any more questions, please, please feel free to reach out to me via Facebook or email or however it is that you stay in touch with me. I would love to hear from you. I know for myself. You know, with two kids, negative self talk shows up, doesn't it, not only for myself, but also in my kids, and it's really difficult to witness and to encourage our kids out of it. So I am thrilled about this conversation, and again, I'm looking forward to hearing from you how the conversation lands as well. So without further ado, let's meet Nicole. Hey, Nicole, welcome to the joyful courage parenting podcast.

Nicole Schwarz 2:33
Hi. Thanks for having me.

Casey O'Roarty 2:35
So glad that you're here. Will you please tell the listeners a little bit about yourself and what you do? Sure,

Nicole Schwarz 2:42
yeah, I am a mom. I have three girls at home, and I have a license in marriage and family therapy, but I don't do therapy anymore. Now. I just do online parent coaching, and I write a parenting blog in perfect families, and I love just working with parents on positive parenting techniques and just encouragement that life is not always perfect, and that's okay.

Casey O'Roarty 3:07
Yeah, I love the name of your business and perfect families. How old are your girls?

Nicole Schwarz 3:11
They my youngest is almost two, and then I have a six year old and a seven year old.

Casey O'Roarty 3:17
Oh, two. So you're in the throes of toddler moving into preschool, plus you got some girls in there at the school age. That's awesome.

Nicole Schwarz 3:25
Yeah, it's interesting to be back in the toddler years again. Yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 3:30
every time I think I might be pregnant, I'm like, Oh,

Nicole Schwarz 3:35
God, I know. I know. And my

Casey O'Roarty 3:37
husband says, whenever we see cute toddlers, he's like, Oh, remember how fun that was. I'm like, What are you remembering? I remember a lot of things, and yes, some of them were fun anyway. And where are you right now? I love for the live,

Nicole Schwarz 3:52
yeah, I'm in St Louis, Missouri. Yeah, cool. And for anyone

Casey O'Roarty 3:57
who's listening who doesn't know I'm outside of Seattle, I don't say that very often, but I love the I love modern technology and that it allows us to be so far apart and to be able to have a conversation. Yay, yay. So I'm so excited to have you on the show, especially after reading your blog post about supporting kids who are kind of stuck in that negative self talk mode it. You know, the parents that I shared that with, it really resonated with them. So can you talk a little bit about how that negative self talk in our kids shows up in homes?

Nicole Schwarz 4:33
Yeah, sure. So I think this is something that resonates with a lot of families, and for some families, it starts really young, like they hear it as their kids are, like, trying to build a Lego tower, and they can't get the Legos to fit, or, you know, they're trying to color something, and it just doesn't work out as they thought it would. And I think that's shocking for parents that kids that. Young would be so frustrated or so negative, and then as kids grow up, I think the big things that I've seen for families is homework and sports or like activities like piano or whatever. So, you know, all of a sudden they can't do it perfectly, like maybe they could when they were younger, yeah, or it didn't come as easily, or whatever, and then they start hearing things like, I'm so stupid, or I'm so dumb, or I can't do this, or nobody loves me, or,

Casey O'Roarty 5:33
and it's that language, right? It's the language that really hooks the parents, yeah. Do you think that temperament? And I'm sure you'll I mean, I think that temperament probably comes into play a little bit. There's those easy going kids versus the kids that are not so easy going. And then everybody in the middle of the continuum, sure.

Nicole Schwarz 5:52
Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, yeah, two kids could be doing this exact same thing. And have you know, one could just go back to halfway building up their tower, while the other one is like, I hate this. I'm so stupid because it didn't turn

Casey O'Roarty 6:05
out exactly how I wanted, right? Only life would turn out exactly how we wanted, right? So yeah, and we really want to, I think that we, you and I, parents, larger community. We really want to jump in and save the day. I think that for a lot of us, that's like, that gut instinct is like, no, no, it's okay. You're okay, you're really smart, you're this, you're that. And I think it's well meaning, and we love them, and it's not always helpful. And I think what I hear from parents is that's when they get frustrated. You know, I just was on a thread on Facebook around this and how, you know, gosh, and I give them compliments, and I tell them that they're smart, and it's not helpful. So what are talk a little bit about that as a, perhaps, as a mistake that parents are making when they hear the negative self talk and they, you know, again, parents going back to, it's all well meaning. I mean, we want to support them, right? So what are some of the ways that we're thinking we're supporting which are actually not as supportive as they could be?

Nicole Schwarz 7:11
Yeah, yeah. And I love that you point that out too, because I think a lot of times it is just from our own like, especially if they say, like, no one loves me, or whatever I'm supposed to you're like, oh my gosh, I love you so much. Yeah, how in the world could you think that? So, yeah, I think there's a couple mistakes which I don't really like using that word, because I think we all are doing this best we can. But for sure, there are things that parents do kind of across the board that don't necessarily help. And I think the first one that I see is panic. I mean, they're just, and that's kind of going back to what I just said, but it's like, oh my gosh, you're you're smart, you're great, you're whatever, um, and again, superstar, my kids. Like,

Casey O'Roarty 7:57
yeah, you're my mom. You're supposed to say that you're

Nicole Schwarz 8:00
supposed to say that, right? That's the common retort after that. And then on the flip side of that, it's not necessarily, maybe panicking, it's the flip side, whatever, but we just reassure so we're like, oh my gosh, you're fine. You're so smart. And it's, it's, it's like, just try. I mean, it's like, if I just say this 10 more times, maybe you'll start to believe me, sort of things that reassurance, and then problem solving. So moving too quickly to problem solving. So if they say, like, I'm so stupid I can't build this tower you oh, let's just move this let's just do this base differently or whatever. And so then the kids like, there's just no learning that happens there. They're just kind of swept away in the problem solving.

Casey O'Roarty 8:47
Well, what I'm hearing, what I'm hearing that's missing, as you mentioned, these different things, is just validating the experience that the kids having. Right, right? Do you think we're afraid to validate it. Oh

Nicole Schwarz 9:02
yeah. I mean it. I think a lot of parents are afraid that that means you agree. Yeah, okay, I could be, you know, if you were to say, and I don't know if you'd want to use those words, yes, you're stupid. But there's a way to validate without

Casey O'Roarty 9:20
agreeing, right? So it could sound like it, you know, you are building a really big tower, and it keeps falling over. And I can totally see how that would feel, really fast, frustrating,

Nicole Schwarz 9:31
right, right? And so you're getting in that experience with them without agreeing, right? So finding that kind of balance, right?

Casey O'Roarty 9:40
And again, we want our kids to be confident and we want them to be resilient and willing to keep trying, right? And we forget. I think as parents that all of those skills are learned over time, through experience, right? So when it doesn't show up, you know, at age four, on that Lego set, which. By the way, there's a reason that Lego sets have ages on them. Tell the grandmas, hi, mom. I love my mom. I love you, Mom, if you're listening, I love you. And Ian really loved that Millennium Falcon Lego set, but at age four, it was a little beyond him, right, right. So, you know, sometimes recognizing too, when age appropriateness shows up,

Nicole Schwarz 10:27
sure, yeah, and that, that's another thing that's such a fine line in parenting. Gosh, everything is fine lines, but, but it's like, how much do you push and how much do you like? How if, with the leg goes, like, it is sometimes hard to know, like, Is this too hard for you, or is this a challenge that's good for you? And

Unknown Speaker 10:46
finding that,

Nicole Schwarz 10:49
but I don't know how to support that for your kids,

Casey O'Roarty 10:51
right? Right? And so back to those skills that they learn over time. Typically, they're birthed out of really tough and frustrating experiences, right? Like that's the only place where resiliency muscles can be developed, is when we are actively being resilient, right, or living through frustration and and why do you think it's so hard? I

or let you know what not. Why do you I mean, we all know why it's so hard, because it's painful to see our kids falling apart. Yeah. So what are some tips that you have and mentioned from the article, which I am going to link in the show notes. What are some tips that you have for parents to connect with their kids when they're in the moment of frustration and help them, help them without fixing right? Because that's not helpful, and it's okay for them to feel frustrated and angry, right? And there are, you know, you have some great ideas around how to then help kids move through it in a way that, on the other side of it, they've developed some of that resiliency for next time,

Nicole Schwarz 11:58
right, right? Yeah. I think maybe before going forward is just like being okay with letting your kid not be okay for just a little while, and kind of resisting that urge to swoop in and save the day. Because really, when we, when we swoop in, we're well meaning yes and we yeah, we don't give them a chance to see the whole like that, Feelings come and feelings go, or I can resolve this without totally freaking out anyway. So yeah, we'll just start there. Okay, perfect. Okay, so once you do that, and if you have to do some like centering stuff for that, that's all good.

Casey O'Roarty 12:39
I'm sure you do. I do right? Because when my kid freaks out, I meet him there, right? It's like, get a hold of yourself. This reaction is not helpful. And he's like, now he's mad at me. So, yeah, write it together. Everyone calm down, right?

Nicole Schwarz 12:56
It's not that bad. Yeah, no, I don't know. And yeah, I mean, and I don't want to make light of this either, because I know that some kids get so stuck in this, and parents really are like, I really can't, right? I don't know what to say or what to do, but seriously, it is so hard to not get wrapped up in their drama. And, yeah, so, so once you do that, I think empathy is huge, I mean, and we just talked about that, just like going there with validating their experience, and don't make it harder than it has to be. So if you see them being frustrated, just point that out and put that into words like, wow, this is really frustrating, you know. And I think it it sounds almost too simple, but kids want to know that you get it and not that you're trying to, like, swish it away, like, if they're struggling with their math homework, it really is a struggle,

Casey O'Roarty 13:52
yeah, for them well, and Dan Siegel calls it feeling felt. Like empathy is about feeling felt. And there's something that happens in the brain, which I cannot quote, but, you know, once they, once we connect with them, yeah, thank you. Um, once we connect with them emotionally, it just kind of opens the space for them to then move into the more logical part of the brain, right, right, yeah.

Nicole Schwarz 14:18
And, and it just, it just, it has to be there, otherwise you're going to get a lot of resistance from your kids, because they're going to think you don't understand, or you're just trying to say that because you're their mom, or whatever. So so if you can go there with empathy, and they are able to, like, hang in there with you, then I really encourage parents to just explore this. What is going on for you, what it tell me more about this, or why is this so hard, and is it always this hard? Or is it just this assignment that's hard? Or is it like whatever? I mean, don't ask all these questions at once. Your kids will definitely tune you out. But I love

Casey O'Roarty 14:55
that. I love Tell me. Tell me more about this, like that. Me is a golden statement, just to tell me more about this and just

Nicole Schwarz 15:05
Lynn, and then leave it open, yeah? Like, I think there's, I know it's so uncomfortable to have that space, like with no one talking, but when we give that to kids, then they feel more free to talk, because they know you're not gonna, like, interrupt them or suggest things right,

Casey O'Roarty 15:28
or talk them out of how they feel, right? Oh,

Nicole Schwarz 15:32
that's so true. Yeah.

Casey O'Roarty 15:33
I think it's really I think, you know, there's something to be said for allowing like that, non not only centering ourselves, but also inviting in, being neutral, being non judgmental, like I'm not here to tell you that how you feel is wrong. You know, I really just want to hold space to listen, and I think that, if that has not been your style, it will take some time for your children to trust that space. Oh, yeah. So for listeners right now, like, if you're thinking, right, yeah, I'll say, tell me more about that. And it's you know, they don't say anything, or they just keep carrying on. Just know that. You know, holding space, holding an encouraging space, for kids to feel really safe, is something that, if it's been your pattern to fix or solve. They're not going to really have the skills to show up in that space, and that's okay. Just keep going there, keep keep inviting it, and they'll recognize over time that, you know, okay, this, this is now my mom saying, like, I'm here, I'm present, and I'm I'm willing to listen. So I think that's important too.

Nicole Schwarz 16:43
I loved your article on empathy that you just put out this week. I think thank you, because I like how it broke down, how to just sit and like, there are things that you can do with your body and with your eyes and with your face to like, show that you're there and that, yeah, do care and listen well. And I

Casey O'Roarty 17:01
think that that's really important as parent educators to you know, so often I hear from people, you know, I read all the books and I read all the blogs, and I just can't it. Nothing works, right? And I think that to us to present the idea that simply responding with you sound really frustrated. Isn't necessarily, isn't really what it's about. I mean, the words Absolutely, but it also like we need to be in empathy, like it's not just an empathetic statement, which I know there's programs out there that are like, pick your empathetic statement and you will everything will be solved, but you really need to be in empathy, or you really need to be curious. I love that one too. Like, tell me more about that, because I'm curious, not because I'm trying to manipulate you into a place of, you know, resiliency or calm, or recognizing that how you feel is irrational, right? And I think we all go there, but recognizing when things don't seem as though they quote work to check in with how we're delivering and how we're showing up, yeah, in the moment of using that tool or that statement or whatever,

Nicole Schwarz 18:17
yeah, for sure. I think a lot of times we come in with this under like this, idea that we already know the problem and we already have the perfect solution. So it's like, oh, you're struggling with your homework. Here you go, just do this, this, this. And the kids like, right? You know that has nothing to do with this or whatever. So I love that, starting with, like, opening up that space and being curious, then I know Russ green, the author, talks about drilling that, grilling your kids. Oh, I like that. Drilling for information, like, in a in a curious way, not in like, Okay, let's see if I can manipulate this conversation to go where I think it should go, into the problem, the solution that I think right, makes more sense. Yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 19:02
I love, I love those little one liners. Another one liner that I love is engaged, don't enrage, which is Dan Siegel, yeah. Dan Siegel talks about that I love that. I'm always like, yeah. In retrospect, yeah, I kind of added a little fuel to that fire. Whoops.

Nicole Schwarz 19:20
Right? Not help. Everything is so clear looking back, yeah, right. Next time, next time, what

Casey O'Roarty 19:27
are and so, what are some other things? So we, we hold the space, we ask them more information. Yeah,

Nicole Schwarz 19:32
so, and I don't think we're still on the same track, because you have to, like, get this information to figure out how you can find a better solution for it. So once you figure out what the problem is, you want to help them rewrite the script. You want to help them instead of what's going through their brain is, I'm stupid because I can't build a block tower. You can start making it sound different in their head. So maybe. Uhm, building a black tower takes work, or I can keep working at this, or just because it falls down doesn't mean I'm a failure, whatever. And it would have to be kid friendly and appropriate for your kid. But I think kids and people in general get stuck in these phrases, and they don't know that there are options, you know, there are other ways to look at the problem or the challenge. So figuring that out with them would be another step talking about just calming and coping skills in general, and that Feelings come and feelings go like just because you're frustrated right now doesn't mean that it will last forever or that you will never be successful in math or whatever. And some kids just really need to learn some strategies to calm themselves in the moment, because they can't look at the situation any differently when they're in this heated enraged. I you know, I'm so stupid. I'm so

Casey O'Roarty 21:01
yeah, well, and I think what you said too, that it becomes, it kind of becomes the go to place right over time. And I think that that's the most discouraged parents are the ones with the kids who it seems like they're they always go there, right? Anytime something doesn't go well, my child goes to, you know, I'm stupid, or everyone hates me, or you don't love me, or whatever the that place is. And something that recently came up in that same thread that I was talking about around, you know, when we say you're not, you're you know, I do love you, or you are smart, something that I find helpful for myself and my own parenting practice, but also sharing with other parents is, you know, when we talk about compliments, I think a lot of times compliments can look like blanket praise versus Hey. Do you remember last week when you had that writing assignment and it took a long time and you stuck with it, you know, that's what perseverance feels like, right? That's what you know hard work feels like, and I bet you can use that same feeling to do this math. Or, you know, remember last, you know, remember yesterday when you and your sister had that problem and you were able to solve it without my help? I bet you can use that same, you know. So I think there's something to be really said for reminding them evidence, right of of why we believe like you're capable of this, you've shown me you're capable of this, and this was when you should Right,

Nicole Schwarz 22:43
right? Because I think especially for kids like you were saying, like these black and white thinkers, or whatever they is really hard for them to see any other time that this has ever gone well for them. Yeah, they it's just, it's all or nothing. It's like, I'm struggling now. I will always struggle. I have always struggled there. Yeah, so I love that. I love pointing that, pointing that out, yeah, and and helping them see that they have overcome things in the past because they have. I mean, think of all the stuff that, oh my gosh, you have to learn from infancy up. I mean, it's just you're

Casey O'Roarty 23:14
standing up right, like, clearly you know about resiliency. You are a walking human.

Unknown Speaker 23:24
You really stuck with that. Come on.

Casey O'Roarty 23:27
And you also work with with parents, with kids around anxiety, yeah, yes. Can that is that? Is there a connection here? Do you find? Or Yes, now? Or Yeah?

Nicole Schwarz 23:37
Oh, for sure, yeah. I feel Yeah, anxious. I wouldn't say all anxious kids fall into this, but it definitely is anxious kids who struggle with perfectionism, or yeah, this negative thinking. It's so linked together. And those are the Yeah, I don't know, so

Casey O'Roarty 23:59
I think about the words like that, never and always, right? That show up for kids. I never, I'm never gonna get this. Or I'm always, you know, I'm always having a hard time or that. And I can see like even using those words for myself increases my level of anxiety, right? So, sure, what's the so? But then on the flip side of that, or the other side of that, what is like the opportunity being presented when kids get caught up in negative self talk? So not necessarily, and that might sound kind of weird to listeners, like opportunity, but really like as the parent, something is being presented, right? It's an opportunity, you know, for us to show up and hold space and develop some, you know, for them to develop some skills, like we were talking about, you know, what if we can shift our mindset around, like, I have to change my child's mind? Okay? Or I have to solve this problem. And if we move to more about, you know, either you know, what's the opportunity for me and my own growth as a parent, or what kind of opportunity is presented when our kids get stuck? Does that make sense? That question makes sense. Surely. Wordy, okay?

Nicole Schwarz 25:21
And this is the same. This is where I see the overlap, a lot with anxiety, is in the same thing. And we were talking about this earlier. I feel like for parents, the opportunity is that they their kids haven't, well, their kids have an opportunity to experience this difficult thing and possibly even overcome it, and so it gives them a chance to not be stuck in whatever it is that's frustrating them. And I talk about this with parents, with kids with anxiety. I talk about it like a curve. So when the anxiety gets really bad, they're at the top of the curve, and that's when the parents run in and jump and rescue them and you know, oh no, no, no, you'll be fine here. We'll just avoid this challenging situation, and everything will be cool. The problem is the kids don't get to see the other side of the curve, so they don't realize that, like, their feelings will decrease, and they can use some strategies for dealing with this differently. So this is the same thing when we rescue our kids from negative thinking, it's like, oh no, no, no, you're not stupid. You're fine. Let me help you build this tower, and we'll just, you know, be on our way. They don't. The opportunity is lost, I guess, to do that problem solving, to do that, the stuff that they need to do internally to regulate their emotions and to to practice this self regulation that it takes to deal with something really hard. Yeah.

Casey O'Roarty 26:49
Well, something just came to mind to me too, especially with that visual of the curve, because it is a build up. Sometimes it feels like, you know, and I've heard the language of like, you know, the drop of a hat. But really it's not. I mean, it is a build up. And I think that what a great opportunity to ask our kids, you know, what does it feel like in your body right now? Right? How are you feeling when you start to get frustrated? What's the first thing that you notice about your body like as and I'm thinking of that visual of the curve as they're climbing up right and starting to help them become more aware. Obviously, you would not have this conversation in the moment. No everyone, but later on, reflecting back, especially when it's a pattern, when it shows up all the time, that's a great time. That's a that's a gift,

Unknown Speaker 27:39
because then

Casey O'Roarty 27:40
you get to say, Wow, I notice something about you. I noticed that when you're playing with your Legos, we'll keep on that example, and your creation doesn't go the way you want it to go, you start to get really frustrated. Great time to say, Tell me about that. Also tell me about what's happening in your body, because then

they are then, you know, because it's not just Legos that are frustrating, it's the little sister's frustrating, or the fact that we don't get to have ice cream tonight is frustrating, or homework is frustrating, right? And so to help them recognize, like, Oh, my legs are starting to feel tight, and to have tools in that moment, right, to calm down, not to say that just because you have a conversation around it, it's like, now, woohoo, you know? I mean, like, think about the adults on the freeway. We all could use some practice, more practice, right, right? But when I think about like opportunity, I think about that, you know, because our really, when we want all these life skills for our kids, they have to have a chance to practice them in real experience, right? And that's what this can become, as a real experience for practicing, right?

Nicole Schwarz 29:04
That is so hard for parents, I think. And I'm a parent, so I can be in this group, because I don't want to practice. It's too hard. It's, you know, I want them to just sure, totally So as parents, we don't always like to take the time to teach. And I can say that because I'm a parent and I don't always like to take the time to teach. I just want my kids to, you know, get it and to just figure it out, and to be able to, you know, be more mature than they really are. I don't know, but the teaching is where it happens, and so if we can start shifting our focus to seeing it as a teachable moment, as something that they can learn like that will help them over their lifetime, that might be more helpful, instead of just feeling the panic that we need to, like, squash these feelings and move on or gloss over it or whatever.

Casey O'Roarty 29:53
So yeah, and I really love metaphor and visuals for kids as well. I've got a. 10 year old son who has big emotions that seemingly show up and they man, they show up when they show up, right? And I was taught something from one of my teachers, a visual around like a fist. And I might have already talked about this on the podcast, but hey, you get tiered again. So we talk. I talked to my boy about, you know when, when we're tight and we're rigid, and we've already decided the outcome, right? So we've already decided. The most recent one is none of my socks fit me. There's no socks in this house that fit me that don't have holes in the toes. So that's where he is, and he's tight, and he's in that decision. And I say, it's like, you're like, like, like, this fist. And I hold up my fist, I say, but what happens when you and I actually invite them to pull back their whole top body, like, pulling back, and you pull back your shoulders, and you open up your chest, and you're like a hand that's opening up to possibility and solutions. So I love that, yeah. And so for him, it's more of him recognizing, like, when he's in fist mode, and then, like, making his own shift. The other metaphor that we use, which I've talked about on the podcast, and I actually have a blog post about it, is the emotional freight train, right? So sometimes we're on the emotional freight train and we don't realize that we're even on it, but who's in, what's in? Who's in charge? Well, the freight train is taking us to crazy town. It's taking us to I hate you. You're an idiot. I'm never going to get this right. I'm stupid. All those places that later on, we feel bad that we've even said out loud. Well, the beautiful thing becomes when we realize that we're on the train, we can choose to get off right, right, or we choose to hang on. I mean, it's a choice either way, but at least being aware of being on it helps. And it goes for parents too. And when I talked to my son about it, he said, Well, can I tell you when you're on the emotional bridge train? And I said, Yes, right? He tells me, and then I have to be graceful and like model the behavior that I want to see, right?

Speaker 1 32:14
I know. Thanks for letting me know now, right? Yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 32:21
I like that, yeah. And that's what's helpful in my and I think it's helpful too for families to have like, a signal, right? It becomes a signal, and not like a fist, like, I'm gonna hit you, right?

Nicole Schwarz 32:32
Careful with people that could turn

Casey O'Roarty 32:36
but yeah, some kind of signal, yeah, and

Nicole Schwarz 32:39
all of this. I mean, I love how this has come full circle, because all of this has to be done with empathy, and it has to be done by slowing things down so that you can talk about these skills with your kids. So it's not going to be when like at the table, when they're so frustrated with their math homework, but it's like a general it's just like a lifestyle, like you're just going to bring it into your home and start talking about these things and be empathetic. So yeah, and

Casey O'Roarty 33:07
I just want to reiterate, too, parents, if there's something that's driving you crazy and it's happening all the time, right, that is the thing to have the conversation about, right? When things are going well, yes, and really just starting it with this is what I'm noticing. Tell me about your experience and going from there, right? So when we think long term, we always want to be thinking long term, because ultimately, we're raising adults. Mm, hmm, how can we be proactive in helping our kids navigate these big emotions in a way that doesn't include blaming or punishing include them blaming or punishing themselves for what they're feeling right,

Nicole Schwarz 33:49
right? I think this is challenging, because I think we want to put it on the kid to learn these strategies or skills or whatever. But I would just encourage parents to just create this atmosphere, I guess I just said this in their home that really encourages imperfection in a way that it's just kind of, you know, like, oh, made a mistake. I'm going to try that again or whatever, and talk about the word perseverance. I mean, even little kids can learn that word. It'd be great to add that into your vocab, modeling frustration tolerance. Like, how do you deal with things when they're when you are frustrated? And let this, I don't know, let the kids see you deal with that well,

Casey O'Roarty 34:32
right? Which includes being frustrated with our kids.

Nicole Schwarz 34:35
Good point. Yeah, for sure, it's

Casey O'Roarty 34:39
not. And nobody's saying it's easy. Listeners, nobody's saying that it's easy. It's a practice,

Nicole Schwarz 34:44
right, right? Exactly. So I guess that's what I would say. So and if you're wanting to work towards this, it's, don't make it so much about your kid having to deal with, you know, figure out these big feelings. But let's, let's just talk. About this as a whole household, yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 35:05
frustration, well, yeah. And I love frustration tolerance. I love that language, and I love perseverance. And just like you said, the more we can make, like when we create common language in the home, it is so powerful, you know, like we are constantly using the term, you know, what is, what's a solution, what's a solution. How are we going to solve it? Like, that's where we go. Well, that's where I, as the leader, holding this shared vision in my home, I try to always bring it back to that also, Oh, I lost it. There's the solution. Oh, there's also, like, how are you going to make it right? Yeah. So sometimes, when they do have these big emotions, and they do fall apart, and they do perhaps, you know, sometimes it's negative self talk, sometimes it's negative other person talk, right? And in the end, that that, in and of itself, is a mistake that we have to make, right? And it's great when they see a model. I think long term parents, when we're thinking about, what is the model that we are providing for our family, right? And is it in alignment with what we expect from our kids? Sure, that could be a humbling question. Yeah, and really forwarding, because if you're finding you're not in alignment, yes, that's awesome. You have a place to practice.

Nicole Schwarz 36:30
So you again with this, like excitement about learning and teaching, I don't know, yeah, not everybody feels that energetic, but wow, thanks for pointing that out.

Casey O'Roarty 36:42
So my my last question, Nicole, that I and, oh, I want to say too, by the way, your website is imperfect. Families.com, right? Yep. So there you go, imperfect. We are imperfect, so let's celebrate that. But my last question is, what does joyful courage mean to you,

Nicole Schwarz 37:02
that is a good question, and I love that. And as I think about that as a parent, I feel like that is like, Oh, the kind of what we're going for. It's, I mean, parenting is challenging, and it does take a lot of courage to move forward, but gosh, that joyful part is awesome. I mean, you can be like, I don't know, grumpily courage. I guess I don't know what the opposite would be, but like to be able to be move forward with courage and still have joy. I think that's an awesome combination. So yeah, I

Casey O'Roarty 37:38
like that. Thanks. Where can listeners find you and follow you.

Nicole Schwarz 37:42
Yeah? So imperfect families, like you said, is my blog, and then I have a pretty active and fun Facebook page too, so that's probably the best. And is

Casey O'Roarty 37:53
that a business page? So they'll find it, yep, yeah. I'll put a link. That'd be great.

Unknown Speaker 38:00
Okay,

Casey O'Roarty 38:01
are you anywhere else on social media?

Nicole Schwarz 38:03
I'm yeah, you can Pinterest and Instagram and Twitter, but I really love my Facebook. The parents on there, they're really fun and encouraging, and lots of chatter over there.

Casey O'Roarty 38:15
So yeah, well, I'll put links to all of those in the show notes, as well as some links to your blog, especially the one about helping kids with negative self talk. And thank you so much for coming on the show. Thanks for having me. Yeah, have a great day. You too. So good, so good. I so enjoyed Nicole, and I'm so honored to get to do this work and that you're out there listening in on these conversations and finding value in them. I also want to make sure that you all know the various ways that you can keep up with me and the work of joyful courage. As I mentioned at the beginning of the show, there is a Facebook group. It's a it's a closed group called live and love with joyful courage. And if you'd like to continue the conversations that start here on the podcast with our community, you can join that group. I will accept you. You can also follow me on Instagram at joyful underscore courage, that's a place where I mix business with personal experiences as well. So you'll see me in action with my own children, as well as doing some promoting of joyful courage. I'm also on Twitter at joyful courage and Facebook, there is a business page, the joyful courage page, and of course, I would love for you to join my mailing list. So go on to www.joyfulcourage.com and that very first page, you will see an opportunity where you can join the tribe. I send out newsletters every two to four weeks. I don't totally bombard you. I catch you up on the podcast episodes that maybe you've missed, let you in on any offers that are. Happening currently through joyful courage and just kind of check in and connect with you through my own experiences and prompts that invite you to share your experiences. So I would love it if you joined the newsletter list as well. It is, again, my pleasure and a great gift to me that I get to serve you the way that I do. So with that have a beautiful, beautiful day, and I will catch you next time you.

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