Eps 375: Intentional communication with Cynthia Kane

What does joyful courage mean to you 

When I first think of joyful courage, I think of joyful exertion, which in Buddhism is the idea that you’re in flow.  You’re doing work, or you’re in relationship that feels creative or easy – you lose yourself in it.  When I think of joyful courage, to me, it’s courageous to be joyful, right?  The exertion piece is the courageous piece.  When I put it together in my mind, it’s having the courage to choose to be kind, honest, and helpful in your interactions or the courage to reframe the way you’re parenting, or the courage to admit that things aren’t going the way you want them to go and that you need help – that to me is what’s coming through.  

 

 

Resources

Cynthia’s Website 

Cynthia’s Books 

Cynthia’s Instagram 

 

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Transcription

SUMMARY KEYWORDS
feeling, cynthia, practice, relationships, parents, moment, sensation, river, communication, people, kids, authenticity, piece, authentic, talk, thinking, recognizing, teens, child, stuck
SPEAKERS
Casey O'Roarty, Cynthia Kane

Casey O'Roarty 00:04
Hey, welcome to the joyful courage podcast a place for inspiration and transformation as we try and keep it together, while parenting our tweens and teens. This is real work people and when we can focus on our own growth, and nurturing the connection with our kids, we can move through the turbulence in a way that allows for relationships to remain intact. My name is Casey O'Reilly. I am your fearless host. I'm a positive discipline trainer, space holder coach and the adolescent needed spreadable. I am also the mama to a 20 year old daughter and 17 year old son walking right beside you on this path of raising our kids with positive discipline and conscious parenting. This show is meant to be a resource to you and I work really hard to keep it real, transparent and authentic so that you feel seen and supported today as an interviewer and I have no doubt that what you hear will be useful to you. Please don't forget sharing truly is caring. If you love today's show, please pass the link around snap a screenshot posted on your socials or texted to your friends. Together we can make an even bigger impact on families all around the globe. I'm so glad that you're here. Enjoy the show.

Casey O'Roarty 01:28
Hi, everybody. Welcome back to the pod. My guest today is Cynthia Kane. Cynthia is the founder and CEO of the Kane intentional communication Institute, the leading communication institute that provides services to individuals and companies to improve their communication skills. Cynthia uses her proprietary process called the cane intentional communication practice to help her students experience more peace, so that they show up authentically in their most important relationships. She is the author of How to communicate like a Buddhist, talk to yourself like a Buddhist and how to meditate like a Buddhist, and was named by Yahoo as the number two Communication Coach to watch in 2021. She and her work has been featured in national and international publications including Spirituality and Health magazine, SELF magazine, thrive global authority magazine, The Washington Post Women's Day and so many others. Truly, the list is endless. Cynthia has a Bachelors of Arts degree from Bard College and a Masters of Fine Arts degree from Sarah Lawrence College and she lives in Washington DC, with her husband and two small kids. Hi, Cynthia. Welcome to the pod.

Cynthia Kane 02:46
Thanks so much. I'm happy to be here.

Casey O'Roarty 02:48
Yay. Yeah. Well, I'm happy to have you here. Let's start by hearing about how you got into the work that you do. Yeah, tell us your story.

Cynthia Kane 02:57
What's my story? So my story is I got here in a really roundabout way. I didn't ever think that this would be the work that I would be doing in the world. So I used to be really passive aggressive, really judgmental, very reactionary, where like everything was like the worst possible scenario, or the most incredible scenario.

Casey O'Roarty 03:21
You sound like used to be a teenager. Yeah,

Cynthia Kane 03:23
I did, then continued into well into my 20s and into my 30s and didn't seem to want to leave. Yeah. And I would walk away. Like I hated confrontation was really good at, you know, rolling, my eyes slamming doors open. And I thought that this was just the way that people communicated or that people interacted. And I didn't have a sense then that it was causing a lot of complicated relationships for me. And I had been with my first love for about seven and a half years. And we had decided to go our separate ways, believing that the universe would bring us back. It did bring us back like four years later. And we talked about a lot of what the issues were in our relationship had to do with communication. And we decided, okay, we're going to be in each other's lives again, let's like, figure this out. And then he passed away unexpectedly four months later. And so that moment, when I got the phone call, he was a river rafting guide. He is from Costa Rica. And he got caught in as well. And he drowned. And when I got that information, my whole world just crumble like everything kind of just went blank. And I really had no concept of who I was what I was, I was very confused as to how the world was continuing. Well, I wasn't. And all I wanted in that time period was somebody to just save me to like come in and be like, This is how Have you live in the world. And this is how you go forward. And I realized that nobody could. I had to do it myself. And so that's what kind of pushed me to, you know, start reading, going to lectures, seminars, retreats, coaches, like everything, and all that I was learning was wonderful. What I was picking up, though, is that so much of enjoying my time here had to do with communication. But I couldn't figure out because I knew that if I wanted to change how I was living in the world, I was gonna have to change how I was connecting with other people. And then that meant that I was gonna have to change how I connected with myself, but I didn't really have any sense of like how to do any of that. And a friend of mine, recommended a writing and meditation retreat at the Shambala Institute, when I lived in New York, I went in that weekend, completely changed my life. That's where I learned meditation. And really, it being like the first place where I was able to let myself be as I was without being angry at myself, or being able to experience like, sadness and heartache and anxiety and fear and beauty, joy, excitement, like, it was just a really fascinating experience. And it felt really good. I didn't know what was happening, but it was feeling really good. And then that's where I learned the elements of right speech in Buddhism, which are, tell the truth, don't gossip, use helpful language, and Don't exaggerate. And I thought, well, this is it like, this is my way out. This is what is going to make everything better for me. And I thought, Okay, this all seems simple. But then I woke up, like, how in the world do I do this? Like, how do I speak in a kind of honest and helpful way. And so that's really where this practice came from. The Tao began, it is a practice, it's a daily practice, it's not something you do once in, you're like, Oh, I'm not ever going to like yell at my kids or become passive aggressive, again, like it is a daily thing. And, yeah, so then I started writing about the work that I was doing, and then how to communicate like a Buddhist was born, and then started teaching it and seeing it change, just as it had changed my relationships, change others, and then the other books were born, and then, you know, courses and all the things came from that. So it all came about in that way. I will say that, like without this practice of communication, or without being very conscious of communicating, I really don't think that I would be able to handle parenting so well.

Casey O'Roarty 07:42
I mean, listen, I really

Cynthia Kane 07:45
think that it would be much more difficult than a day, and it still is very challenging. That's how I got here.

Casey O'Roarty 07:53
Well, thank you for sharing, I really appreciate your story, and specifically, that question of how do I be in the world in this grief that I'm living in? And I think that can show up in so many different ways, right? That piece around, like Life is uncertain, we can't know what is going to show up. And I'm thinking of a few clients of mine right now, who, in the context of parenting teenagers are coming into some knowledge around their teens, that is sending them into a place of grief and how to be in grief about someone who's still exists in front of them. But it's, I think this happens a lot. You know, as our kids get older, that place of whether it's innocence lost, or I never thought this was going to be something we'd have to navigate or you're not who I thought you were, or just a variety of things that can come up that do come up unexpectedly, and then we have to sit with it and be with it. And can you say those four things the right speech? Miller's, will you say those things again,

Cynthia Kane 09:06
so it's Don't gossip, use helpful language, tell the truth and Don't exaggerate.

Casey O'Roarty 09:14
Just thinking about how useful those are as pillars. Yeah. For all of us in all of our relationships. Yeah. Especially for my listeners who are parents of tweens and teens. And you know, this period of time, really gives us lots of opportunity to practice not reacting. Yeah. And fear is really real. And hearing you talk about the daily practice of living up to those pillars, while also the daily practice of tempering or moving away from or even recognizing the conditioning and the reactivity and the human newness, that is also simultaneous Easily happening for us. Yeah, 100%. Tell us a little bit more about your work and how it supports us. I talked about it as a pause, I would love to know how you talk about it like creating that space between whatever's triggering or stimulating, and how we respond or react. How do we develop that space between so that we can make a more conscious choice?

Cynthia Kane 10:24
Yeah. So that's really the piece that I think when people think about communication, they usually think about just like speaking and listening. But for my work, it is truly it all begins with you like yourself, because there are practices to start doing to be able to access, like what you call the pause, what I call, like the space basically, like in between, right? That you then get to make that choice to continue in the same way or not. Right within your interaction. So it all begins with really listening to yourself. So you're first starting to understand and pay attention to your default reactions, right? So you were just talking like, this is our human nature, right? Like we just react, that is what we are meant to do. Like, we feel threatened, we feel uncomfortable in some way. We're like, Oh, I'm just going to save myself in this moment. And so this is how my body this is how my mind knows to do that, right. And all of us have different ones. And, you know, usually they're either we lash out, we get passive aggressive, we shut down, we get quiet, we get dismissive, maybe we over explain things, or we start making excuses. Some of us just like, we just walk out, right? All of us can do all those things to one can start like a domino effect of all the others. And that's just our natural human reaction. But the first piece is to understand one that that's totally normal to have the reactions. And most of us don't want them we're like, I just want to stop being mean, or like, I just want to stop yelling, or I just want to stop, you know, walking out the door, slamming the door. And with this work, it's really important to honor that to be able to be like, oh, cool, okay, great. This is good information for me to know. So first you figure out, what is my default reaction, and then you're like, Okay, this is what it is great. Then there's a sensation attached to that. So sensation isn't feeling sensation is like in the body, right. And so in the body. If you think of a difficult interaction that you had with your child, where you've gone into your default reaction, there's a sensation that's happening. So either maybe like, your heart beats faster, your palms start sweating, or, like you start swallowing more, or maybe your jaws like really tight. Or maybe you just feel like sick in your stomach, right? But there's a sensation. So you listen for that sensation. So once you hear that sensation, that's your like, oh, moment, because not is telling you, right? I'm about to interact in this way. So I'm about to get passive aggressive. I'm about to lash out, I'm about to shut down. And in that moment, what we usually do is we go outward, right? And we're like, I can't believe they just did this. Why can't they just be more like so? And so? Or why

Casey O'Roarty 13:33
are they doing this to me? Right? Like, I think parents of teenagers were really good. My daughter's very good at this Mom, this is not about you. Right? That they they feel like that's a place to where we turn it like how could they do this to me,

Cynthia Kane 13:47
right? And so we're like outwardly focused. So in that moment, instead, when we noticed that, it's like, okay, what we need to do instead is soothe ourselves because we're feeling something like we're feeling stupid. We're feeling angry. We're feeling misunderstood. We're feeling invisible. There's all these things. And so our work in that moment is to come in be like, Oh, hey, you're feeling this right now. It's okay. We've got you, we're here, right? Like, and you like, find a way to access rests in the body in that moment, right to soothe yourself in the moment. And so often, I'll like rub the inside of my hand, or some people will, like, you know, squeeze their fists and push it in, or like rub your chest, your body has to understand that it's safe, right? Because we're just talking about like that default reaction that's like from the fight flight freeze, right? So our whole body is like pumped with cortisol and we're like, oh, my gosh, we're feeling threatened. Your body has to understand that it's in a safe place. So then you get to be like, alright, this is all happening in your mind, by the way, like, yourself, and you're like, we're good. We've got this. We're okay. Everything's fine. Just take a breath. And then you take a breath. And you're like, what are my hands doing? What are my feet doing? What's my belly doing, you access the present moment. And then then you can look at your child, right? Like, then you can really see clearly, then you have access to everything you need to consciously decide, how do I want to engage in interact in this moment, right? So many people will come to me and there'll be like, people are just like, just pause, or like, you know, take a breath. And it's like, there's more that has to happen to access the pause, right? So that is how you access that space, to then be able to choose, right how you engage. But it is a practice, you have to first like you take a week, and you just practice sensation, you take another week, and you practice, like witnessing and observing your default reaction in your sensation, and then a week practicing talking to yourself differently. You know, and then it becomes kind of more natural.

Casey O'Roarty 15:57
Yeah, slowly over time, the more you practice, right.

Casey O'Roarty 16:08
And I love this. Cynthia, it's really similar. It's, you know, super validating to me to get to talk to people on the podcast and realize like, Okay, I'm on the right track with what I tell parents. So, thanks for the validation. Yeah, I was so appreciate this. And I really want listeners to hear that first piece around awareness. You know, when we're talking about our young kids, you know, I am a positive discipline trainer. And one of the things we teach parents is about the brain in the palm of the hand, Dan Siegel's work. And we have a little video for parents and asking our younger kids, well, how does it feel in your body when you're mad? Right? And we can recognize in that context, why it's useful to heighten a child's awareness around that. But somehow, we aren't connecting the dots around why it's useful for us. Yeah, too. And I know, you know, when I think about my default reaction, it's like I'd really tight jaw and a really tight chest. And that's when my passive aggressive, resentful. Yeah, bitchy wife, basically, is usually where that's the area. That's the relationship that I've been working on, shows up and a storyline of blame outward facing storyline of blame, I'm doing everything right, you're doing everything wrong. Recognizing that I'm there, I love the soothing of self. And I really appreciate the use of the word we, because I feel like there's our essence our true self. Yeah. And then there's our ego. So there really is a wee going on, right. And I would love to geek out a little bit on that, because I think it's so fun when we start to pay attention to that, because I think so many people are walking around accepting the ego as our true nature. And really, it's just this like wild Yang, wild identity that can sometimes start calling the shots and getting us into a lot of trouble. So how do you explain, you know, the Wii, to the clients that you work with? How do you help them to kind of discover that,

Cynthia Kane 18:25
like, there's the hard self, right, that we all kind of have, and that's the self that wants to solidify things. It wants to control things it like wants to make solid, what is not, right. And, I mean, I find Buddhism really interesting, but like one of the things in Buddhism is this idea of no self, right? It's not saying that we don't have a sense of self. But what it says is that basically, if you imagine like a river, we're like a river, right? We are full of like rocks and leaves and sticks. And it's constantly in motion, that saying you never step in the same river twice. Because it's constantly in motion. It's constantly in process, right? And it's so hard for us to not want to freeze the river, right? Or for not wanting us to, like make it a solid thing that we can just hold. And that's often what we're trying to do in these situations. Right? Yes. And so, the awareness, like what you were talking about is so important, because it's this awareness that in the moment, like your fists are closed, right? Like you are hard as a rock, right? Like my son. I forget what it comes from, but he calls it like rock brain and like your heart as a rock in that moment, right. And so the idea is, can you soften Can you open your palms to the other person? Can you open your palms to yourself, right? Like, can you reach your hands out to somebody else? Like can you let yourself just be in process and when we are able to just allow ourselves to be as we are in that moment and nurture it, it's like in meditation, right? When you have a difficult or uncomfortable sensation come through, like the one is to push it away, right? Like the one is to want to fix it, or like, make it better or change it. And instead, our job in that moment, is to nurture it. It's to be like, Oh, come here, and like, kind of like treat it like a little puppy. And you're just like, Oh, hey, right. And it's the same in this situation, like our default is to get hard and want to control. Yeah, like, sit in that place of I know better. Right? And it's like, oh, I'm seeing that I'm doing that cool. I gotta like, can I just open my palms right now? Can I just let myself know, we're okay, we can access that soft place, we can be in motion, it's okay.

Casey O'Roarty 20:53
I love the visual of the river, when I think about it in the context of the teens, because having been through some pretty big stuff, with my own teens, supporting others going through things with their teens, like thinking about, you know, the choices and the mischief and the things that come up during the teen years as those big you know, sometimes their entire trees, right, sometimes they're just sticks. But the idea, I think we like to hold on to this idea that we can dam it up, right, we can somehow dam it up so that the trees won't come down the river, or the sticks won't come down the river. And I love this idea of what if, you know, like the rivers always changing, you know, it's always changing. And even when, you know, I live in western Washington so and have lived on rivers. And sometimes the water is really high and the debris is insane. While other times it's really low, and everything feels really calm. And it's such a great metaphor for moving through the teen years. And it's a season in and of itself made up of many seasons. Right? And so that ebb and flow of their journey is real. And if we can be, you know, just carrying on with the metaphor here. Yeah, you know, if we can appreciate that, the water will go down, and the debris will take care of itself, while also recognizing, Hey, we should put up some sandbags like, Yeah, I mean, there's corn to a river. Right, right. Like there's some things we could be doing here to support the season, right horse, it's not about like, good luck with the river, hopefully, there's not a lot of damage. But I just really appreciate that idea of, there's always movement, like even in your story of losing your love, which I'm really sorry that you lived through that. And I see the beauty and the gifts, and the opportunity that you've created and leaned into because of the experience that you went through. You know, the same is true of our kids, they're gonna go they're going to fail classes, they're going to try and maybe even use for a while substances that we don't want them to use, they're gonna have sex. Yeah, like they're gonna do the things. Because this is when they do um, yeah. And if we can remember that they're in a constant flow, like they are continuously growing. And we get to tend to self Yeah, and you know, remember to soothe and to find that pause and be really thoughtful. It can transform the experience, even when it's shitty, it can transform the experience.

Cynthia Kane 23:45
Well, and that's the beautiful thing, right? Like with compassion, most people think that it's just being kind. But it really is sitting in the suffering with somebody else. It's like sitting next to someone who is suffering, and just holding them and just being there with them. And it's so hard. It's an active practice, right? Like, it is so hard to do that because our true nature is to like, want to fix it to make it better to make it easier. And it's like, everything in your body is going to be like, do that make this solid? Yeah, make this solid. And your word is to be like, No, I'm going to make this fluid. I'm going to open my arms to this. I'm going to see can I hold this as it is? And it's so uncomfortable. It's so uncomfortable to do. Get what's wild is like how much connection it creates and how much more trust it builds.

Casey O'Roarty 24:39
Yeah, we use the iceberg metaphor, right? So all the behaviors that we don't love the tip of the iceberg, but behavior is purposeful and typically behaviors a solution to a problem that we don't know about and then we find out oh my gosh, my teen is in pain and is suffering and is using alcohol or is using we Eat or is using, you know, relationships to make sense of or live with this pain and suffering. And it's so interesting to be someone like to be a supporter of that parent and to help them, like shift their focus from, but how do I get them to stop doing this thing? Right into? Let's connect with compassionately let's sit with the pain that they're feeling. Yeah. And now that I'm saying it out loud, it's like, it doesn't feel like we're doing anything. Right? It doesn't feel like, quote, doing anything about the behavior when we come in from that direction. And yet, that's what it's all about. That's what's ultimately going to make the biggest difference.

Cynthia Kane 25:44
Yeah. Because with that, your child has to work through so much on their own to get to a place where they want to stop doing something, right. Like, we can't force that. And so for them to understand that they have somebody in their corner who's with them. I mean, that's so powerful. It helps the healing go faster.

Casey O'Roarty 26:05
Yeah. Yeah. And it's messy. And it's the river.

Cynthia Kane 26:10
It's the river. It's gross in there sometimes. But yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 26:14
yeah. And it takes time, maybe a lot of time. And, you know, I say to my clients, like, I would love to tie this up with a neat little bow for you. But yeah, it's not a thing. Yeah, that's like,

Cynthia Kane 26:26
my students want things in the center, like saying the right thing. Yeah. I just want to say the right thing. And it's like, you cannot say the right thing. Like there is no right thing or a wrong thing. Once you start into this work, you end up knowing what to say once you reach that place of, you know, like authenticity or like currency.

Casey O'Roarty 26:47
Yeah. And I think it's really, and we're going to talk about authenticity, I think it's really powerful to to recognize that. You may be in a situation where you're saying, I don't know how to respond to this. Right. And that's a valid response. That's a

Cynthia Kane 27:04
beautiful way to respond. Because then it gives your child the ability to model that behavior to

Casey O'Roarty 27:09
Yeah, yeah. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Yeah, for sure. And I talk a lot about authenticity with my clients. And here on the podcast, teenagers have fine tuned bullshit radars. And by the way, they've been our children. You know, for me, 17 and 20 years, no one knows me better than my kids. Like, they know when I'm walking in with an agenda, a response that I want to hear. And, like you said, with the communication, like authenticity is a daily choosing in, right, it feels like exposing myself, right. But it also feels it's like such a relief that I just get to be real. And I feel like when we can show up as authentic, it opens the door to our kids being authentic with us, which is what we want. I mean, we call it, we just want them to be honest, really, we want them to be able to be authentic, which by the way, if you're going to invite that in, be prepared. Because it can be a lot to hold. Yeah, right. It can be a lot to hold. What does authentic mean to you? And why do you find it as an important piece of the work that you do? And how can we get better at it?

Cynthia Kane 28:30
Yeah, so to me, I think being authentic really means being congruent. So it means your insides match your outsides. Right. And so often within communication, our insides do not match your outsides, right. It's like the classic example of when somebody's like, what's wrong, and you're like, nothing, you know, and the other person is like, obviously, something's wrong. And you're like, No, I'm totally fine. Everything. Right, but like, You're not fine. And that's one thing people ask all the time, well, people will say my tone of voice is off. And the reason is, because you are off, right? Like, your tone would not be off if you were being congruent, right, like if you're being authentic. And so it's really important, because it just adding a layer of confusion, that is not necessary, that just causes so much misunderstanding. And it requires so much work, you know, and it's much easier. There's definitely like the fear around it, right? Because we have a lot of fear of what the other person's reaction will be to it. The once we start doing it, and it doesn't have to start in these big grandiose ways, right but like once we start actually listening to ourselves and trusting ourselves and then acting on what we're hearing, then we begin to build that confidence to be able to express ourselves right? And to be able to say that was really hurtful, right like the way that you just said that to me, that was really hurtful. Could you tell that to me in a different way? Right? Like, instead of being like, I can't believe you're talking to me like this again, like, I can't stand it, you know, or whatever. Right? How dare you. And I think the best place to start with being congruent is really small. It's like, and it's not necessarily in your relationship with your kids, right? It could be just going to Starbucks, or a coffee shop, a local coffee shop. And you know, you want to soy decaf latte, and they give you a caffeinated latte. And you're like,

Casey O'Roarty 30:41
Don't they know what'll happen middle of the afternoon? Or they

Cynthia Kane 30:45
give you a coffee with just like, the different milk, you know, you're like, Oh, it's fine. It's no big deal. It's fine. No worries. It's fine. No, it is, right. Like, it's important to you, right? It's something inside of you that you wanted, and you expressed, and then you didn't receive. And so it starts with something even that small, being able to go back to the barista and be like, You know what, actually, I ordered a decaf oat milk latte, not a soy latte. Could you change that for me? Right, like, yeah, right there begins. And then you then move into your relationships with your children, right? Or your spouse or whomever. And the next thing you know, you're suddenly like, you know, I can't talk to you right now, because I'm feeling so much frustration that I need to just go take a minute. And when I'm ready, I will come back. Right? Yeah. And

Casey O'Roarty 31:38
I love that too. Because what you just highlighted are the two extremes, right? One being like, How dare you screw up my latte? And the other one being like, well, I don't want anybody to feel bad. Or it's too uncomfortable for me. And I think as parents of teens, we wouldn't listeners, wouldn't you say? Like, we fall into both of those places. We don't want our kids to freak out. Because who knows what will happen. So we are incongruent, or we've lost our mind. And we're freaking out, and we're incongruent. And so coming back to what you shared around tending to self right, and recognizing our awareness. So is authenticity who we are when we're regulated.

Cynthia Kane 32:26
Yes. Okay. It's when you're at rest, when you're at rest. Yeah, that is your place.

Casey O'Roarty 32:33
Yeah. Like, that's really important to make that distinction. Right. I think that it could be said, obviously, erroneously, but it could be said like, well, this is just who I'm pissed. So I'm gonna be pissed. Yeah, right. This is my authentic self in the moment. But that's not your highest self. No, this is your hijacked you've been hijacked. Yeah. Right. You're hanging on to a log on the river and let the log take you down the river. Yeah, right.

Cynthia Kane 32:58
And that tone, right. Like, if the tone is like, well, this is just who I am. Like, that's who you are. Right. Right. Like, right. You want like a clear channel, it's like, often talk about like, water in like at the top of the head, it should come right out. Yeah, it shouldn't get stuck anywhere in the body, it should just come right out.

Casey O'Roarty 33:23
Yeah, I think that's really key. So, you know, that got a couple things that you language pieces that you said that I took note of like your insights, matching your outsides. And I was on a call with a client recently. And she said, You know, I realized that I had been thinking that I was regulated when I was talking to my daughter, but I realized all this time, that just because I put up this calm front. Yeah. Does it mean that I was regulated? And now I'm learning how to be better at that. And she's responding better. Like, to me, that's an energetic way to go, Casey. Yeah, well, that was her, you know, her get

Cynthia Kane 34:00
wear and tear were guided by you. That's great. Guided

Casey O'Roarty 34:03
by me, I'll take that credit. But really, it's so big. And I'm thinking specifically of a couple of other clients that I have, like I mentioned before, who have kids that are, you know, going through some stuff, and encouraging them, you know, and they still want to know what to say, yeah, they want to know what to say, to get to the outcome that they want. Which is thank you bomb for explaining this all to me. And now I won't do this thing anymore. And yeah, you know, when I think about that, it's like, that's a lovely desire. But again, we don't control what's floating down the river, but we can certainly decide how we're going to show up to that flood, how we're going to show up and who were going to be for them and are we going to be a space where our kids are going to share with us and process what they're going through? Because if that's the case, then this authenticity this tapping into our highest way of being is a place that's gonna, like you said build trust and build safety. Yeah, for them to safety, I

Cynthia Kane 35:08
think is the like, that's what we're all really needing. Like, yeah, on both sides, right, that feeling, you know, everything's okay. Nothing is wrong, all of our needs are met. And everything's uncertain. So be okay with that. Just be with the uncertainty.

Casey O'Roarty 35:27
Yeah, yeah, just deal with it people, okay, because it is the reality we all went through this fucking pandemic, we know, weird stuff happens. And does. It does. Do you have any practices around that around that being? You know, there's that heightened when you're really confronted by the uncertainty and realizing like, Oh, God, I don't really actually have any control over this. And that guy can even just saying it like, it's like this little whirlpool in my body that kind of spirals up my energy channels. What are some practices that you have? That could support parents who are really in that like, crisis? Oh, god, what's happening?

Cynthia Kane 36:10
So one is definitely sitting with that sensation. Right? So it's not trying to push that sensation away. It's not trying to be like, there's something wrong, because I don't know how to fix this, or because this isn't being fixed, or I have no idea what's ahead of me, or what's behind me or what's inside of me. Like, I'm just floating, I have no anchor right now. And it's understandable, right? So first, it's like, it's understandable that I'm feeling this way, right. And it's okay, that I'm feeling this way, there's nothing wrong with feeling this way. I'm just gonna sit here with this feeling. And I'm going to follow the sensation of this feeling, I'm going to feel the discomfort, I'm going to feel that like, beating energy that it is, and I'm just going to follow it through my body. And you close your eyes, and you put your attention on it wherever it exists, and you just follow it. But your attention is like a gentle attention. Right. And it's not trying to do anything with it, it's just letting it be there. That's what I mean, like that is one practice that really, just it suits it, right. And then the other, the other is to then start really thinking about, some people call it like a surrender box, or like, I have like a little box over here. And the things that I really want that I feel really, really attached to that I'm like pushing and needing or like feeling like it has to happen. And like I get stuck with it. And like the want of it just like consumes me, right? And it's like, I can't hold it anymore. So I write it down on a piece of paper. And I just write down like, My desire is this or something better. And then I write like, whatever it is, like, I really want Holden to have an incredible day today with the boys in his class. And then I just put it in the box. And there's something about that. For me, that gives it over to like, the other element that I believe in. Right, which is like a spiritual element to it. All right. And there's only so much that I can do. And when I noticed that, like, I'm starting to, like want for the uncertainty to be different. I just write down what I want. And then I put it over there. And then it's all gravy. It goes away.

Casey O'Roarty 38:43
I love that. I

Cynthia Kane 38:44
mean, this is just for me.

Casey O'Roarty 38:46
Yeah, yeah, no, I really appreciate that both of those practices. And I think they'll be really useful to people that are listening. So thank you.

Cynthia Kane 38:54
Can I do one more thing to that? Actually, yes, please. Sometimes what will happen if you sit in if you sit with the sensation of it, it's not to like get down on it. I just want to write because we can get stuck sometimes. So there will come a point where you ended up asking yourself a question of like, how do I want to feel now? Right? Like, if I'm feeling uncertain right now, and I want to feel more certain, what are things I can do that can help me feel that way? Not necessarily in that situation. But maybe it's like, you know, I can, you know, do laundry and check the box. Right? But like something that you can make tangible. So I just want to offer that as well.

Casey O'Roarty 39:38
Yeah, you know, I think about that phrase, What you resist persists, like that emotion that sensation wants to have its time and space. And it seems like that kind of practice really just allows it to exist. Yes.

Cynthia Kane 39:54
Like a swinging door. Like the resistance, right? Like if you have to go away it just comes back but if You just open the door to it. It'll just like, oh, just come in go, you know, come in and go out.

Casey O'Roarty 40:07
Yeah. And I think we get to notice too when we're stuck and ruminating, right? It's like that same practice that you started at the top like, Okay, now my body is shaking, like, clearly I am really stuck here. And that self soothing, recognizing the stories that we're telling ourselves, and then asking that question of what do I need right now? What can I do right now? Yeah, that's really useful. Oh, my gosh, I love that. We had a conversation about communication. And really, it's not about words.

Cynthia Kane 40:42
Isn't that the truth?

Casey O'Roarty 40:45
It really is, I mean, so much, especially when we're sharing space with adolescents, because so much is communicated from both sides, energetically, from both kids and the parents, I mean, what you want what you expect all of it, you know, and what you don't want, like, they know we use words. And oftentimes, the words are what get us into trouble. And so I really appreciate Cynthia, the work that you do around really tuning into what it is that we want to communicate and who we want to be. As we do it, I think that's such an important conversation to have for all of us, especially for those of us that are working on maintaining relationship through the turbulence of adolescence. So thank you so much for your work. You're so welcome. Is there anything else you want to make sure that you leave listeners with today?

Cynthia Kane 41:42
Just understanding, I think that, you know, this isn't something that we're taught, right. And the beautiful piece about that, I think is just that it's a learned practice, right. So, and a lot of people will think it's not possible to change the way that they communicate. But it really is. I mean, if it's something that you can see is really affecting your relationships, and it's something that you want to change, you can, you know,

Casey O'Roarty 42:13
now is one of your books, or recent publish, or we're here to promote one of your books.

Cynthia Kane 42:18
I'm working on my next book now, which won't be out. I mean, it's doing to the publisher in June, so it won't be out for a while. But my last book came out in 2020. So like, right when the pmk came through, but yeah, how to communicate like a Buddhist is the one that really talks to a lot of what we've been talking about just in terms of like, the practice itself, and then talk to yourself, like a Buddhist is more about how we communicate with ourselves in a kind, helpful way. And then the meditation is truly just to learn how to start with a practice that can be helpful to you, right? It's like just nuts and bolts of it all. Yeah, so those are the books.

Casey O'Roarty 42:58
Okay. I want to ask you, what is joyful courage mean to you?

Cynthia Kane 43:03
What is joyful courage mean to me? So, what's interesting, when I first think of joyful courage, I think of joyful exertion, which in Buddhism is that I the idea of like, you're in flow, right? So you're doing like, work or you're in relationship that feels like, creative or easy, or like you lose yourself in it. And so then when I think of joyful courage, I guess to me that is, it's courageous to be joyful, right? And I feel like, it's, like, the exertion piece is the courageous piece, like so I guess. When I put it together in my mind, it is more being able to, like have the courage to choose to be kind, honest and helpful in your interactions, right, or the courage to reframe the way that you're parenting or the courage to, like, admit even that things aren't going the way that you want them to go. And that you need help, right like that, to me, I guess is what it is coming through. If that,

Casey O'Roarty 44:18
thank you. Where can people find you and follow your work

Cynthia Kane 44:21
so people can find me it's an became.com or on Instagram at Cy Kane one. And I'm open to emails. I like getting emails from people so you can email as well at Cynthia at intentional communication. institute.com

Casey O'Roarty 44:35
Awesome. Yeah. Yay. Yeah. Well, we'll make sure all of those links are in the show notes listeners. Cynthia, thank you so much for hanging out with me. You're welcome. Anytime. Thank you so much for listening in today. Thank you to my spreadable partners as well as Chris Mann and the team at pod shaper for all have the support with getting the show out there and making it sound good. Check out our offers for parents with kids of all ages and sign up for our newsletter to stay connected at beasts brothel.com. Tune back in later this week for our Thursday show and I'll be back with another interview next Monday. Peace

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