Eps 96: Melissa Benaroya talks Summer Routines and Structures

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Casey O'Roarty 0:00
Joyful courage. Parenting podcast episode 96 is sponsored by talkspace, the online therapy company. For as little as $32 a week, you can work with an experienced licensed therapist handpicked just for you. On talkspace. You can send text, audio and video messages to your therapist and talk about your life, work through what's keeping you up at night, or just work on feeling a bit happier to sign up or to learn more. Go to talkspace.com, backslash joyful, and to show your support for this podcast, use the code joyful and get $30 off your first month. Talkspace.com/joyful using the coupon code joyful.

Hey everybody, welcome back to the joyful courage podcast, a place for information and inspiration on the parenting journey. I am your host, Casey o'rourdy, positive discipline trainer and parent coach. As always, I am thrilled that you are listening in welcome. Be sure to listen after the interview, I have some really special offers and calls to action that I don't want you to miss out on, specifically the joyful courage 10 summertime offer. So stick around and you'll hear more about that. If you find yourself laughing, taking notes, nodding your head with excitement about what you hear on the show today, do me a favor and pay it forward. Share this episode with your friends, your family, neighbors, strangers at the grocery store, your sharing is the reason I'm able to show up for you each week, and I am deeply honored to do so. My guest today is Melissa Benaroya. You will remember Melissa from Episode 81 where we dug into empathy. Melissa is has worked with children and families for almost 20 years, and has helped over 1000 parents feel more confident in control and connected to their children in her private practice, Melissa specializes in working with parents of one to six year olds, because these are the foundational years in both a child and parent's development. Most parents are just winging it as they go along. Melissa helps parents become more intentional about their parenting, and makes the process simple and easy so that families can focus on having fun together while fostering relationships built on mutual trust and respect. Welcome back to the podcast. Melissa,

Melissa Benaroya 2:42
thank you great to be here. Thanks. Casey, yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 2:45
remind the listeners a little bit more about your journey. Yeah.

Melissa Benaroya 2:49
So I've spent probably the last 13 years of my work working only with parents, because the first I would say, 10 years of my journey as a therapist and a counselor was working with kids, and when I realized and that work was the greatest influence I can have on kids lives, is actually working with our parents. Yeah, so I rarely see children. I do provide educate parent education in a classroom once a week, but the majority of my work is with parents, and whether it's one on one coaching or through live classes or online parenting classes, I'm really passionate about supporting parents in this journey. And you are a parent, I am a parent too. Yes, I have that experience. So I have a 13 year old daughter and a 10 year old son. So I get to practice all of these things that I get a chat and teach at childproof parenting, yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 3:46
I forgot our kids are so close, very similar, yeah, older daughter, younger son. My kids are just about a year ahead of yours. It is a even with all I know, it is a wild ride.

Melissa Benaroya 3:59
It definitely

Casey O'Roarty 4:02
is so today we're gonna look ahead at summer, and it finally Melissa listeners. Melissa's here in the Pacific Northwest as well, and it finally is actually feeling like summer. Gosh, man, it was a rough go. Yeah. We're gonna dig deep into the places where we sometimes loosen up a little bit over the summer that may get in the way of having a really great, connected experience with our families, and it's really good timing, like I mentioned at the beginning, I am launching the joyful courage 10, which starts on Thursday, so I'm really excited about our conversation today. Melissa, what comes up? Well, what has been coming up again and again in my parent community, is that parents feel like moving out of the school year routine leaves them in this limbo of no structure, and it feels out it can start to feel out of control. So let's just start there. So how important is structure and consistency during the carefree summer months? You

Melissa Benaroya 5:05
know, I think there's a fine balance. I think it's helpful for parents, just because, you know, planning of a three month window of time can be helpful, but I think also for children, kids knowing what to expect, knowing what is going to happen each day, that maybe meal times stay the same. Some of those small things can give kids a feeling of control, so that way, it doesn't feel so chaotic. Because when things feel chaotic, kids tend to react to that, and things don't go so well. So I think just knowing what to expect creates this feeling of control, and just the consistency is as well, just makes things go more smoothly day to day. And I

Casey O'Roarty 5:52
always think back to one particular class I had, and a good friend of mine was in the class. Shout out to Kobe, I hope you're listening. And when we talked about routines and structure, and she is this wonderful, spontaneous, free spirited mama, and she really felt at the beginning, when we first started working together, she felt like that routines felt somehow confining. And I think that I would love to kind of play around with this with you, Melissa, because I think that's a misconception of what we're saying. Because I like to talk about how much freedom actually exists inside the structure of routines,

Melissa Benaroya 6:33
right? And you know what? I think part of the summertime routine is actually scheduling unstructured time. Yeah, right, how important that is in this process. So there is consistency. And you know, just thinking about a young child's summer experience, you know, breakfast is generally served at the same time. They know what to expect, that there's maybe a morning activity, then there's coming home for some rest time so that kids know how the day goes. So there's a lot of flexibility in that, but there's pieces of consistency that just help children to manage themselves. So I think the unstructured time is equally important, like I said, like scheduling that, which makes it structured unstructured time. I guess it lends itself to kids being bored. And I know today's parenting, like parents are fearful of their child being bored and scheduling them in classes and camps and activities, but there's so much value in being bored, it really is creates an opportunity to spark creativity. Can lead to new interests. It requires kids to learn to take initiative and feel self reliant. So I think that it's worth it to build it into their summer, which is hard to do, because I know for us in the Pacific Northwest, we have a very small window, and everybody tries to jam pack everything possible in our little summer. But I think that unstructured time is a really important piece.

Casey O'Roarty 8:16
Yeah, and I'm hearing you really talking about like a flow, and having the kids know the flow of the day, and having a routine or the structure isn't necessarily, you know, having every day, where, in this day, we're going to go to the library and we're going to spend this much time there, and then we'll drive home, and then we'll, but I'm hearing like, more of a broader kind of idea, like in the Yeah, we are going to when we're out of the house, It'll typically be in the mornings. And this is just obviously an example. Families will figure it out what fits best for their time. But yeah, that's unstructured. Time is so powerful and it's interesting, right? Because I think that all you know, kids are different. I know that my son loves to be home because he's out in the neighborhood. He's looking for his friends. They're playing in the backyard. They're playing at the park, you know? And then I've got this 14 year old, and being home is now that she's moving into these teen years, has started to become in her room on her phone. So that's it. And I know it's not just her age. I've worked with parents who have younger kids, and it's any downtime is, can I get on my tablet? Can I plan my iPod? I want to watch a show? How do we what are your ideas for parents? Because that's another thing that's shown up in my community, is anxiety around how do we navigate screen time? For

Melissa Benaroya 9:45
sure? Yeah, that's huge. It comes up in my community a lot too. And I think you know, the transition to summer is a great time to start having conversations, because the way kids use screens and devices during the school year is. Typically different than the summer, because there's just a lot more free time. So like you said, they gravitate towards the room and you don't see them. So I think sitting down at the beginning of the summer and talking with your children about what you all feel is reasonable, so coming up with a plan around what's acceptable how long they get to use it, where they can be using it. So maybe if they're going to watch a video or play a game on a phone or a computer, it has to be in an open living space and not in the room, especially for younger kids, right? Because we have to be monitoring everything that they're exposed to. So I think having those early conversations, sets those expectations, so they're not encouraged to continue to push the limits because they were involved in the process of setting them and then talking about like, what the consequences are if that agreement or that contract is broken, so That way it feels fair and reasonable when, you know, oops, they had a slip and, you know, they started to abuse a little bit because it's so easy for kids and for adults. Oh, yeah and right. So that's the other piece of it. Is including ourselves in that conversation, because we are contributing to their use, because we're modeling so if we're using our phone in front of them constantly all day, or watching videos or even reading books, all they see us do is looking at screens. So I think just being mindful too about your own use of screens in front of kids is really valuable. Yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 11:39
so I'm thinking, I just made a little note. So it's powerful to model what downtime can look like. So actually, like sitting in a chair with a real book with pages and exactly getting outside and finding or doing a craft. And it doesn't have to be necessarily like, we're all going to do a craft together, but it can be like, Hey, I've been, I've had this project that I've been wanting to do, and I'm going to use this afternoon's free time to work on it. You're welcome to join me or not.

Melissa Benaroya 12:18
Yeah, yeah. And I think to that point when you're coming up with this agreement about screens, talking about and brainstorming ideas of what else they can be doing with their downtime, like this is one option, great, and there's a limit to it. And let's come up with a list of things. So that way, when there is downtime and they, you know, veer towards the screens, and maybe they've already had enough. We can say, you know, let's check out the list of other things you can do during this our downtime together. And I love that finding something to do together. I know my son doesn't start school till like, 910 and he wakes up before six every day, so there's a lot of time before school. Talk about downtime. And so we have just decided we we read and snuggle together every morning, and if I didn't intentionally do that, I would be fighting the screen battle every day. So I think just being really thoughtful and intentional about what's okay during that unstructured time will help parents avoid a lot of the power struggles.

Casey O'Roarty 13:32
Again, special thanks to our sponsor talkspace, we all need to take a little better care of ourselves, and taking care of our mental health is no exception. That's why today's sponsor, talkspace, the online therapy company, makes it easy to connect with an experienced, licensed therapist handpicked just for you for as little as $32 a week. Using talkspace, you can send your therapist text, audio and video messages whenever you want, or even do a live video chat one event about work or family or talk through something that's been on your mind. No problem. Your therapist is ready to help to sign up or learn more. Go to talkspace.com/joyful and again, as a special offer for our listeners, you can use the coupon code joyful to get $30 off your first month and show your support for this podcast.

So I want to talk about you mentioned. You know when we make an agreement and they slip up, which they will do everyone. I mean, that's what they do when we're talking when you talk about consequences, what are some what do you what are consequences that would be appropriate? Because I kind of, when I think about agreements that aren't helpful, we revisit agreements as the consequence. So what? Although, you know, full transparency, we revisit and we revisit and we revisit, and then we get to a point sometimes where I will say, especially to the older child, like, Okay, so my consequence, you know what? I when we come back and retouch, you know, talk again about what's going to be helpful for both sides. That's how I think about consequences. And right now I'm feeling really frustrated, and I just kind of want to take your phone away, right? So, how do you balance like and I think it's something that all of us who are under this umbrella of positive discipline, positive parenting, you know, there's almost it's, you know, we definitely are, you know, punishments not helpful. Consequences start to get slippery,

Melissa Benaroya 15:43
totally, right, especially because it's like,

Casey O'Roarty 15:46
typically, it's when I'm desperate that I'm like, listen, right?

Melissa Benaroya 15:50
Yeah, it's that emotional knee jerk reaction, right? Yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 15:55
yeah. So how do you how do you navigate that? Well, I

Melissa Benaroya 15:58
think part of that conversation, when you're coming up with your agreement, is talking about what they feel is fair and reasonable, like what would and so I think just starting by asking them, and I mean, many times kids come up with great ideas, and if they come up with the consequence, there's gonna be a lot less resistance when You actually need to use it. So I think starting with the kids is a great place to start. But you know, you mentioned falling under positive discipline, so obviously it needs to be related to what happens. So it's not like you're not getting a popsicle this afternoon because you kept, you know, talking on the phone or whatever. So it's related

multitasking they're watching. Who knows? So I think, you know, it's reasonable. It's not like, you know what, the phone's going away the rest of the month. Forget it. You're never going to see it again. It's like, hey, you know what? Tomorrow we're going to skip the use of, you know, the phone or the computer, and we're just going to have more unstructured time to work on that project you have, yay, right? So it's reasonable, and then it's obviously delivered respectfully. So, you know, it's easy to get into that knee jerk frustration, so being mindful of just like your body language, the tone in which you like have to deliver that consequence, like bummer, you know, you took advantage today and didn't adhere to our agreement. So tomorrow, we're just going to put the phone away during unstructured time. So just being that is a that is one of the key pieces, because it can be reasonable and related, but if it's getting delivered out of anger, it almost instantly becomes kind of a punishment. So I think being really clear, and I forgot to mention, I actually have an example of a device use contract on the child proof parenting site. So if you want an example or print it out and use it, you I wrote a blog post called screens, apps and computers or something like that. Oh my No, something about all of the devices, ultimately, so you can download it

Casey O'Roarty 18:17
there. So cool. Send me a link to that, and I'll make sure it's in the show notes. Sure

Melissa Benaroya 18:21
I will do that. So that way you don't feel like you have to come up with all of the ideas that's kind of built in there little structure.

Casey O'Roarty 18:27
Well, yeah, because this is where you know we and we talk about, you are a positive discipline educator as well. So we talk about this in our classes, right? How we swing from permissive, right? Mostly because we're afraid of being too harsh, right then we happy, and then we and then we can't stand it anymore, so we swing into harsh because we don't want to be a doormat and and so trying so like, you know, talking about and screens, I love that we're kind of digging in right here, because everybody is in the struggle, right? And, you know, it can feel like it's just this and, you know what? Not only can it feel like it's this never ending conversation, it just, I think that as soon as we accept and surrender to the to the fact that it is a never ending conversation, like it's just something we're gonna get to keep talking about, right? And not be surprised when our kids push the limits, because that's what they do, right? That's their job. And so and I think that sometimes we set ourselves up, and I say we include myself in that we by have making these having these great conversations, we made this great agreement, and then, oh my gosh, they don't keep up at their end of the bargain. And we're, like, shocked and amazed and then hurt and then victimized. So rather than that, like, expect a little bit of that. And you know, it's okay to say, hey, what was our agreement? What was. Our agreement, and then giving them the opportunity to say, oh, right, sorry, moving on, carrying on. We don't have to be like this super rigid stone wall, and when it becomes a problem, yeah, definitely like, Well, what did we say was going to happen? So thank you for going there with me.

Melissa Benaroya 20:16
Yeah. And I think, you know, a lot of parents think this is a conversation you have with older children, like we were talking about our teens or preteens. I have clients and you've probably seen this too Casey that have two and three year olds that are constantly tantruming for the phone or a screen. So I think I encourage parents very early on to do this type of work. And obviously your two and three year old is not going to sit there and come up with a consequence for themselves, but I think just having these conversations will help also enforce it. Yeah, well, and

Casey O'Roarty 20:53
I think it's just, and I think at that age, don't you find that it's more about the routine of it, less about like we're making an agreement with a two year old. But more about No, that's a morning. We do that in the morning, or we do that on Saturdays or, right? Well, two year olds, feel free not to give your small children devices. Please, please, please.

Melissa Benaroya 21:12
The American Pediatric Association says children under two year olds shouldn't be watching screens at all. So there's

Casey O'Roarty 21:19
that. There you go. Right, yeah. So I know that I definitely thrive when I'm in a routine, when I have a routine for getting up and getting moving and knowing, you know, my own personal little ritual that I have in the morning, when I have when I am in that practice, my whole day is better. So getting get being well rested, getting something good in my body and summertime can often find us getting really lax with bedtimes and wake ups. So let's talk a little bit about sleep. Yes, yes. What do you think are the big things for parents to keep in mind here?

Melissa Benaroya 22:04
Well, I think a few things. I think, you know, this kind of goes back to that structure and consistency, if you're going to keep anything consistent, keep the sleep routine consistent, because even missing 20 minutes of sleep three days in a row can have a significant impact on a child's ability to process. So I think acknowledging that if there have been a few days of staying up late, or maybe a week of it, and your child is acting crazy, that you know you're responsible for some of that. Yeah, that like we can't point the finger at our kids if we haven't set them up to be able to manage themselves. So I think just being mindful that if your child has a nap, that they get a nap in, that kids go to bed at a reasonable hour. It's super hard, as you know Casey here in the Pacific Northwest, because the sun's out to like 10pm Yeah, right, when day and night happens. So it's so easy to stay up late, but it's so important that kids get sleep well.

Casey O'Roarty 23:17
And I know that, like my the 14 year old can sleep. She's really good at sleeping in. But the 11 year old, it doesn't seem to matter what time he goes to bed. He's he has a his internal clock is on fire, and so it's really, you know, it's typically against my better judgment when I let him stay up, even though it's this big, like, Okay, well, you need to stay. You need 10 hours. So what does that mean about when you get to wake up, you know? But yeah, so keeping that in

Melissa Benaroya 23:51
mind, control that we can't control when they wake up, but we can influence when they go to bed. So it's, you know, once again, this isn't about rigid every night at this exact time. But I think just being mindful of like, hey, what may be contributing to this craziness that's going on, and just taking a look at what are some other sleep habits, and if there's some sleep preparation, you can expect an uncooperative child, yeah, well,

Casey O'Roarty 24:18
I love that too, because, you know, I often will say, kids do the best they can with well, we all do the best we can with the tools that we have in that moment, and sleep deprivation kind of empties out our toolbox

Melissa Benaroya 24:31
totally. It's out the door parents and kids, right? Yes, parents haven't slept. Forget about it. Yeah.

Yeah, not to

Casey O'Roarty 24:49
be our best self. Love you mamas out there in those early years. Don't worry. Sleep will come again. It will. It will.

Melissa Benaroya 24:57
It definitely so

Casey O'Roarty 24:58
firm and flex. Possible is what like is what I'm I'm really showing up for me in this conversation. Yeah,

Melissa Benaroya 25:05
I think it's finding that balance and being really intentional about where you are going to be firm and where are you going to let you know. Let some flexibility. Yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 25:14
and the co creation of it all too, like, Absolutely, it's amazing what happens when we invite our children into the problem solving, into the solution finding. They're so much more cooperative, completely

Melissa Benaroya 25:27
and because they feel a sense of control. And that's what kids really want. They want to feel in control. And when parents are telling them what to do all day or having to use consequences, they're going to fight for control. So the more that we give them, the easier everything's going to be, and the more fun we're going to have, right, especially during the summer. Well,

Casey O'Roarty 25:47
and I and it's also a relationship building. I mean, the message is, you matter so much that I want your opinion on this, or your you know, I value what you have to say. And, man, that is, that is that. That is a there's that takes us far when the relationship is secure and solid, and we do have those not so great parenting moments, we have a soft landing and a place where we can make it right and move on, versus, you know, just being grumpy and resentful all day long. Nobody wants a summer of grumpiness and resentment. Any other final thoughts, Melissa, for listeners when they're thinking about the summer long, summer days ahead. You

Melissa Benaroya 26:27
know, I think just keeping in mind this balance and knowing that, knowing and acknowledging what what your role is when things kind of go go astray or things get a little bit crazy, just acknowledging that, I think, also can help deescalate things. For parents, like if your kid's acting crazy instead of getting angry at them, kind of notice what your role is. And if we are thinking about sleep and structure and routine, it's going to make going back to school in the fall a whole lot easier, right? The school

Casey O'Roarty 27:04
bus will return. It will and

Melissa Benaroya 27:07
you got to get back on track. So it's going to make it a lot easier. If you commit to a consistency in a few areas, back to school will go much more smoothly.

Casey O'Roarty 27:18
Yay. I know all the teachers that are listening are like, no, no, back to school. So I'm not ready for it either. Well, we haven't even started. I shouldn't be talking about the school bus yet. I know so in the context of summer vacation, Melissa, what does joyful courage. Mean to

Melissa Benaroya 27:42
you? Joyful courage? Well, I think when I when I hear those two words side by side, I think about having the courage to take risks and the joy that can result. And people think about risks being kind of negative, and I think there's just a lot of positive in taking risks and being courageous. So I think taking some risks this summer and encouraging your kids to do the same and finding joy in the time that you get to spend with them. Yay. Thank you. Yeah, remind

Casey O'Roarty 28:16
the listeners where they can find you and follow your work. Sure they

Melissa Benaroya 28:20
can find [email protected] where I have a blog so they can read up on what I post weekly. I also have some online courses that you can view on childproofparenting.com but I also have childproof parenting on Facebook. I have a private page which members of the community can join, as well as on Twitter, so just depending on where you are, you can you can find me,

Casey O'Roarty 28:49
yay. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to come on the show.

Melissa Benaroya 28:54
Absolutely. Thanks so much for inviting me today, Casey, I appreciate it.

Casey O'Roarty 29:02
You. Melissa, yes, so grateful to Melissa for taking time to talk to me today about all that good stuff to keep in mind as we move into summer. And speaking of moving into summer, listeners, I'm so excited because in two days, if you're listening to the podcast, on the day it comes out, that's Tuesday. So I'm talking about Thursday. On Thursday, I have a free program that is going live called joyful courage 10 summertime. And oh my gosh, the excitement is already brewing in our closed group. The parents are excited. They're ready to be in community with each other. Celebrate, support all the goodness that shows up as we move into a new practice. This a new way of being joyful courage. 10 Summertime is all about preparing you for the long days of summer, and not preparing you like giving you armor and a fighting stance, but really helping you to decide what kind of summer you want to have. How do you want to feel this summer? How do you want to be and how can you support your kids and hold the space in your home environment so that everybody is feeling connected, is feeling like they matter, and is having a good time. That's what the joyful 10 is all about. It's about jump starting your practice of showing up the way that you want to show up on the parenting journey, all right. So if you're interested in getting started with us, like I said, it's happens in two days, Thursday, what is the date on Thursday, June 14, is when we start. So if you want to get in on that action, go over to joyful courage.com/jc. 10. Joyful courage.com/jc 10, that is where you can sign up and get in on it. And what you get with the joyful courage 10, it's free. You get short daily emails for me that just highlight whatever that day's content and practices. I'm going to jump into the Facebook group every single day at 9am Pacific and do a Facebook Live around the same content, and you have access to this incredible community of people that are working on the same kinds of things that you are. So it's a really, really powerful offer, and I'm so excited to get to be your guide for it. Also, if you aren't already a part of the live in love with joyful courage community on Facebook, Join us. Join us. Over there. We're having great discussions. I post all of my offers there and and there. I'm there. I'm there, interacting with the community members. It's a great place to talk about the podcast. Come on. Come on over. I would love to yet again every week I'm going to practice doing this special thanks to my man Chris Mann at pod shaper. He is the producer of this podcast, and I so appreciate all the hard work and dedication and investment that he puts towards my show. Chris, you're awesome. Thank you. And Anna Proctor, my admin assistant. She is my show notes writer, my idea, listener and all around superstar, encourager, thank you so much, Anna and Chris. I am so grateful to have you both on my team, on my team, and if you have been if you get the newsletter and or follow me on Instagram, because joyful courage is on Instagram at joyful underscore courage. Come follow me there. You will see that I'm really trying to put it out to the world that not only am I a podcaster and a community creator, I am a coach, I am a parent coach, and I'm really excited about my coaching offer. So what coaching is, is really support for you in finding and getting ever clearer on your vision of who you want to be in parenting, on your parenting journey, who you want to be in your life, like getting really clear and explicit about what your vision is for your family, for your Home, for yourself, and then it's also support around really embracing the mindset. If you listen to the show, my guess is you're into positive parenting, positive discipline, gentle, peaceful parenting. That is all good, and it requires a very specific mindset, right? I talk a lot on the podcast about this, about kids having doing the best they can with the tools they have, right about belonging and significance, about looking under the surface at the beliefs behind the behavior. That is a mindset shift, and sometimes we can use some support around that. And when we can shift our minds, there so many more possibilities for solutions show up. Also the final piece that we talk about in coaching and work through are strategic tools, filling your toolbox with tools that are helpful, not hurtful, and that move you and your children forward in relationship, in encouragement and in relationship. So if you are interested in finding out more about coaching, shoot me an email. [email protected] I would love to do a quick 15 minute exploratory call with you. We could see if we're a good fit all that good stuff. All right, there you have it. There you have it. Bee looking out on Thursday, I have a special Father's Day show coming out with my husband. My husband, he's coming on and a couple other special guests. So be sure to be looking out for that podcast. And yeah, have a beautiful day, my friends. Have a beautiful day. Thank you so much for listening. See you next time.

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