Transcription
[00:00:00] Casey O'Roarty: Hello, welcome back. Welcome to the Joyful Courage Podcast, a place for inspiration and transformation as we work to keep it together while parenting our tweens and teens. This is real work people, and when we can focus on our own growth and nurturing the connection with our kids. We can move through the turbulence in a way that allows for relationships to remain intact.
[00:00:27] My name's Casey Ody. I am your fearless host. I'm a positive discipline trainer, space holder, coach, and the adolescent lead at Sprout. Also mama to a 20-year-old daughter and a 17-year-old son. I am walking right beside you on the path of raising our kids with positive discipline and conscious parenting.
[00:00:46] This show is meant to be a resource to you, and I work really hard. To keep it really real, transparent and authentic so that you feel seen and supported. Today is a solo show and I'm confident that what I share will be useful to you. Please don't forget sharing truly is caring. If you love today's show, please, please pass the link around, snap a screenshot, post it on your socials or text it to your friends.
[00:01:12] Together we can make an even bigger impact on families around the globe. If you're feeling extra special, you can rate and review us over in Apple Podcasts. I'm so glad that you're here. Welcome, welcome, welcome. Enjoy the show.
[00:01:32] Hey everybody. Hi. Welcome to a solo show. Oh man. This week has been kicking my booty. So Tuesday my husband had shoulder surgery and is this third one? It's pretty extensive. Caregiving is real. I made a big public Facebook post, well public to my people, not my followers, but my friends and family that are on Facebook just about what's going on with his health.
[00:02:07] I. And I got his permission to kind of talk about his surgery and his return of multiple myeloma, which is blood cancer and his upcoming treatment. And we hadn't really shared very much. He had posted on his page, but he kind of a ramly poster and it's hard to follow. So I asked if I could make an announcement basically.
[00:02:32] Write a novel, make an announcement about what was going on for him to let people in on his experience. And I gotta say, I think the most powerful thing about moving through all of this again, because he was sick in 2020 COVID, right? Isolated weird times, is that, you know, we have community here in our local space.
[00:02:59] We have people that. Care about us. Ben has a total fan club. He's very reserved and he doesn't really reach out. He's super introverted, but people freaking love Ben and he has so much support and so much love from people that know him, from people that know and love me and know of him through me. And it was surprising to recognize how deeply I needed.
[00:03:28] Others to be in the know and to just recognize how much we are loved. Even though I knew it, it was very satisfying and is very satisfying to just have people reaching out and checking in on us. So yeah, the power of community and being intentional about what you need is so huge. So that's kind of the theme of this week.
[00:03:50] I am in caregiver role and I gotta be honest with you, I'm not a great. Nurse, especially ICU nurse, especially these early days, I do the best I can and this isn't my strong. Skillset, but we've been here before, and those anchor words, I think I've spoken about my anchor words here, acceptance, ease, and levity are really supporting both of us in these early days post-surgery.
[00:04:17] The other thing that I wanted to share with all of you is there is a podcast rebrand you're gonna see in the coming weeks. Some new show art. So you know when you get on your podcasting app and you look up new shows, or if you're a subscriber, which hopefully you just subscribe, so you're automatically given new shows.
[00:04:38] The show art is going to change. I wanna put more emphasis on the fact that this is a podcast for parenting adolescents. We have reached the end of year 10, you guys, year 10 of this podcast. So it's time, it's time to uplevel, to take a look at what's working, what's not working. This is, you know, one of my favorite offers to the world.
[00:05:08] This is where you get. Tons of free content from me. You get to get to know me, people get to check out what I'm all about. I get to offer you meaningful experiences. I think that's the feedback, and it's also a place where I encourage you to join my newsletter list and. Join the Facebook group and think about my offers and invest in your parenting through working with me and that energetic exchange of money for support.
[00:05:43] So you know the podcast. I love the podcast. I love the podcast. Um, and I just am always working to tighten it up and that's what is happening now. I'm, we're gonna look back at the last 10 years on next week's Monday show, I'm got some audio from each of the 10 years. To play with some, remembering some storytelling around.
[00:06:10] I mean, it's been a big 10 years for me. It's my kids going from nine and 12 to 19 and 22 and damn what we grew through over the course of the last decade personally is huge. And those of you that have been with me since the beginning, what you've grown through over the last 10 years. I'm sure is huge, and for those of you that are just tuning in, welcome, and I expect that even without your connection to joyful courage, when you think about the last 10 years, I.
[00:06:43] Pretty major, right? Pretty big evolution. Pretty big growth, pretty big challenges. So what is changing is I'm gonna keep the two shows a week, but I'm going to do more solo work. The solo shows are really where you all reach out and. Talk to me about your takeaways. I know that there are some valuable people for me to be interviewing, so there will be some interviews here and there.
[00:07:12] Absolutely. I definitely wanna keep up with Julietta once a month, talking about tweens and middle school, as well as a few other handpicked voices. But I really wanna pay attention to what you need and what you want. So Mondays will be content heavy? Yes. Thursdays, I'm gonna do my best to really pull from what I'm seeing posts in the Facebook group requests from my membership community, really curating content driven by you.
[00:07:49] So that'll continue to be our Thursday shows. You're still gonna find the podcast in all the places. Again, still working to design it to be useful for you. Still leaning into the foundation of positive discipline, of conscious parenting, of personal growth and development of centering relationships. So none of that's gonna change.
[00:08:11] I'm excited to see where this. Takes us. I also just wanna acknowledge, I think I've acknowledged it before, but a couple years ago, a year ago, we started working with a company and have brought ads into the podcasting experience. Just in case you didn't know it costs money to publish a podcast. I have an editor who makes things sound good.
[00:08:36] I've got the platforms that the podcast gets put on. You know, there's the cost of time and effort, and I am not breaking even on that. I'm getting better, but the ads really support the show in sustainability. And I know when I listen to podcasts, I often scroll through the ads, but just know like anytime you click a link or engage with.
[00:09:05] The ads, it's a really passive way of supporting the podcast, so the ads are here to stay and the ads are supporting my work, and it's okay for you to have whatever experience you are having around that as well.
[00:09:30] So today's content, shout out to my friend, cam. You've probably heard me share this before here on the show. I feel like I, I mention it a lot, but it's so good. Over a year ago, I was hanging out with him. He has a teen son. We hadn't connected in a while. He was asking me about my work and he said to me, case, gimme the short version.
[00:09:52] What's the main thing to remember when it comes to parenting teens? And my answer was. Don't make it worse. Don't make it worse. Teen brain development happens. The adolescent years are messy. Our kids have to move through it just like we did. The good, the bad, the ugly, the mistakes, regrets, bad relationships, embarrassing moments.
[00:10:18] We can't save them from themselves. There is no formula for, or sage wisdom that takes. The place of learning through experience, joy, accomplishment, heartache, resilience, patience, self-reflection, decision making, all of it is learned through experience and then through processing the experiences that we have.
[00:10:45] And we get in the way of that for our teens when we get scared, when we get controlling, when we want to save them. From feeling any kind of negative feelings, right? So we get to bring it back to the iceberg. Remember the iceberg? I've talked about the iceberg on other shows. So again, picture the iceberg.
[00:11:06] Iceberg, an actual iceberg in the ocean. There's this little or not so little part that we can see right above the water. Then there's this massive part that lives under the surface, under the water. So, side note, I was kind of looking at technical phrases when it comes to icebergs and sometimes the tip of the iceberg.
[00:11:27] What we can see is called the hummock. And the part underneath is called the Ock, B-U-M-M-O-C-K, the ock. I mean, I kind of am in love with those two words, hummock and hummock. So anyway, when we use this visual of the iceberg to consider our kids' behavior, the tip of the iceberg, the hummock, that represents what we can see.
[00:11:54] We can see the mistakes they're making. We can see the risky behavior they're choosing into. We can see their sass, their attitude. We can see their grades, how they're interacting with schoolwork, their emotional responses. This is what we can see, right? What we can observe is the tip of the iceberg. I. And when we think about this visual and consider what's under the surface, the ock, if you will, I'm so glad that I get to use that word on this podcast.
[00:12:23] When we're talking about what's under the surface, what we can't see, it includes things like our teens developing beliefs. Experiences about belonging and fitting in social engagement, their skillset or lack thereof of navigating tricky situations. Their pull towards novelty seeking their developing beliefs about us, about what we can handle, what we can hold, their discouragement, their stress, and their burdens, most of which again, we are unaware of what happened that day.
[00:12:58] Right? The impact of social media. The current state of the world culture, what it has on them, so much is happening under the surface and really driving what we see at the tip. So what happens is we encounter the iceberg, right on the daily. We encounter the iceberg in the form of our teenagers, and we tend to react with what we see, what we hear, what we feel in this situation, in our bumping up against.
[00:13:30] What we see our kids' behavior, and I'm intentionally using the word react because often. We are in a reactive state. We're not thinking or considering anything beyond, oh my gosh, I gotta shut this down. This kid needs to pay for this mistake. Or, what do I have to do to get them to learn? Now, not all the time, sometimes when it's low stakes, it's easy to lean into our positive discipline tools.
[00:13:54] Like, tell me more about that. I'm gonna be curious. I'm gonna be encouraging. I'm not scared about this. They can handle it. So our toolbox is super available. It's when things peak, when it's those tough things that send us into fear, that we kind of lose the toolbox and shoot from the hip, react from our conditioning.
[00:14:18] Our emotions tend to get high when our emotions get high. Our logic and thoughtfulness and access to what we know is useful in the long term. Tends to be low. We slide into survival mode. We move quick, right? In survival mode, less thinking, more reacting. We're in the part of our brains where the main concern is to keep our kids safe, right?
[00:14:42] Or to keep ourselves safe, really. And we are conditioned as humans in that part of the brain to react. With fight, flight, freeze, or fawn, these are our survival instincts that can kick into gear when we have high emotional response to our teens, when we feel that fear, when we feel threatened, when our safety is, or their safety is under threat.
[00:15:10] Fighting. We know what that looks like. Yelling, shaming, blaming, clenching our jaw, like telling a story with our face, right or flight. We retreat. We deny that there's an issue. We look the other way. I can't deal with this, right? We freeze, right? We don't know what to do, so we don't do anything. We stop in our tracks.
[00:15:32] And then fawning kind of this people pleasing reaction. How might that look in the context of our. Teens making big mistakes. I'm guessing maybe it looks like, like leaning in, like, oh yeah, you are a victim. This surely this wasn't your fault. Yeah. We start to look for others to blame on their behalf. You know, who do we gotta, how do we gotta make this right?
[00:16:00] I'm on your side, but I'm on your side without the personal responsibility invitation. Not useful. I'm not sure if this is fawning, but I would definitely know it's not useful for our kids. It's intense. These are intense moments. Yeah. Are they intentional moments? No. We're not being intentional when we are reacting from that place of survival instincts.
[00:16:28] And typically when we react to what's happening at the tip of the iceberg and remember. The tip of the iceberg can be the whole range of things, the whole continuum. We're talking right now about. When the tip of the iceberg looks like really risky behavior, problematic behavior, right? When we react to that, we typically do or say things that we later regret or we need to clean up things that aren't helpful.
[00:16:56] And the struggle is real because we're humans. We have conditioning that's developed over time. We have an inner child with wounds that we are unaware of until we're confronted by the mischief of our teen or our partner or our friend or coworker. It's really layered. There's those of us that recognize, okay, I have conditioning that I.
[00:17:21] Want to bring a microscope to and understand better and do something about, or I have this wounded child, this inner child that pokes her head out when I feel scared or when I feel threatened, when I feel unsafe and she takes over it. And that's not useful. So how can I tend to her? Right? It's layered.
[00:17:41] And most of us, I would say, love the concepts of positive discipline. We, we learn it. Yes. This makes sense to me. Especially if you're listening to this podcast, I love this work, but when things get really intense or hard, when we have these peak behavioral experiences, we feel lost at what positive discipline looks like with finding out our kid has been drunk driving or finding out that they've sent inappropriate texts or finding out that they've been experimenting with substances.
[00:18:14] Like when things get really hard. It's challenging to look at it through the lens of positive discipline. So I had someone post in the Facebook group and they shared exactly this, trying to learn more about how to parent with the positive discipline approach. However, sometimes I feel confused at how to, I.
[00:18:34] Be with the more serious things. My gut instinct is to try to control the situation. Totally relatable. While I thought we had open communication, teens are sneaky. We've always tried to keep an open door with our teen to call home if they ever need a ride. Are under the influence, even though we hope they wouldn't choose to be under the influence at all, when discovering that they made poor driving choices.
[00:19:00] How do you set firm rules and consequences without them thinking it's all about control? This is a situation where the natural consequences of their action is too risky and there needs to be some safeguards in place. However, I don't wanna damage the relationship, pushing them further into rebellion.
[00:19:17] Just really trying to figure out how positive discipline works in these situations. Thank you. Thank you, poster. I'm so grateful. Anytime somebody shows up in the Facebook group and posts these really hard challenges because we're having a collective experience and you are not the only one, and when we get to tease apart these kinds of situations, it's helpful for everyone.
[00:19:45] So thank you. And this is really scary. They didn't say it exactly like this, but it sounds like this is a teen who chose to drive under the influence. Right. And many of us have been in situations like this or similar to this, and are also asking the question, how do you set firm rules and consequences without them thinking it's all about control.
[00:20:13] What I responded with in the Facebook group is that I was seeing this person in this challenge and that I find positive discipline is easy peasy when things are going well or when the challenges seem low level and always more difficult when things get tough and natural consequences seem. Like a scary alternative or more extreme.
[00:20:33] So not alone. Yes, to curiosity and empathy. A hundred percent. And also remembering the positive discipline is about being kind and firm. This is how we define mutual respect, respecting the teen kindness, connection, validation. I see you in this, while also respecting ourselves and others in the situation.
[00:20:54] Firmness boundaries follow through. Right. Our teens let us know if they're ready for the privilege of driving by the way they show up to the responsibility of driving and when they're taking unnecessary risks or not staying safe or keeping others safe on the road. We can start with curiosity, exploring their understanding of responsibility of driving, and when it feels like they aren't ready or mature enough or skilled enough for the responsibility, it is absolutely appropriate to say, you know what?
[00:21:24] We love you. And we want you to practice this super important life skill of driving and it seems like you're not quite ready for the responsibility. So we're gonna hold onto the keys for a bit. That independence of driving your friends around is we're gonna pull that back, and at this point you get to go back to taking time for training and having them drive when you're all in the car, until you feel comfortable and confident in how they're showing up behind the wheel.
[00:21:52] This may feel like it's controlling and I'm still reading the response that I gave to this parent, but I think if you keep centering the importance of the responsibility of driving, they will soften their initial annoyance towards you and recognize that this isn't a power struggle. I think also important here is what you're doing.
[00:22:13] As well around just continuing to connect, continuing to see them outside of this challenge. And in the meantime, that's what I wrote. Keep leaning into relationship. Keep looking for other places where you might be leaning into control. Keep finding opportunities for them to stand in their autonomy, and you get to be emotionally honest with them.
[00:22:33] Watching our kids out on the road is so hard and they will make mistakes. They will push boundaries. The first time is a great chance to lean in and process. Get curious. Yes. When it keeps showing up, this is time for you to lean into your personal responsibility and pull back on the privilege for a bit.
[00:22:57] Because this is real, we have some responsibility around, you know, we're handing the keys over. So there is some responsibility that we're taking. We're saying like, I am confident enough in you, even though you're inexperienced, even though you're young, like they have to practice, right? We have to let them go.
[00:23:16] I am confident enough in you and your decision making to give you the keys to the car to have you out in the world. And if their behavior is having you question that, then absolutely you get to say, oh man. I love you, and it doesn't feel like you're ready for this responsibility. So I'm gonna pull back on the keys, and they are absolutely probably going to be pissed off about that.
[00:23:42] And don't be confused. This p, you know, this post is centering, like this driving challenge, right? And this safety conversation around driving, but it's bigger than that. It's about how we navigate privileges. When our kids are persistently showing us that they aren't able or willing, and I hold it as able and, and get curious about what's getting in their way of being willing to live up to the expectations and responsibilities that come with that privilege.
[00:24:12] So it might be driving, it might be screens, it might be the level of freedom that they have out in the world. So again, it is our responsibility to be sure that the driving and the freedom that they have. That they have enough skills that they need to keep themselves and others safe, and they're gonna make mistakes.
[00:24:29] They're gonna make mistakes.
[00:24:40] The poster said. This is a situation where the natural consequences of their actions is too risky. There needs to be some safeguards in place. However, I don't wanna damage the relationship and push them further into rebellion. Yes, beautiful wise, this is where we get to really work on collaboration and breaking free of the power struggle.
[00:24:59] It makes perfect sense that this feels tense. It is tense. And when we get too controlling, too punitive, or they perceive us as that way because the relationship is lacking, we can push our kids into rebellion or they can go underground and get sneaky. And the thing our kids need most is a place to process the mistakes and experiences that they're having.
[00:25:24] They need a healthy adult to help them make sense of their thoughts and their choices, not to lecture. Or make meaning for them, but to hold space, stay curious, thoughtful and nonjudgmental so that they can work to make their own meaning, create and develop their own discernment and judgments. And this is what we want for them.
[00:25:48] This practice, this is exactly what adolescence is about, developing the skills of self-reflection, problem solving, personal responsibility. These things are developed through experience and in relationship with each other, and it isn't easy having this kind of relationship with our kids. It's hard to hear about the poor decision making, the seemingly illogical and reckless choices, right?
[00:26:11] The tip of the iceberg that we're observing. Believe me. There are so many. What the actual fuck moments on this path and wow, what a gift it is to know that your kid will come to you, share, consider your perspective, and grow through what they're going through. And it's messy. It's messy. How do we hold that tension?
[00:26:34] The parent who posted, followed up with, I get so many conflicting messages online books. On how to navigate all the different scenarios with risky behavior. The need for them to fit in with peers is high, but when the choice of friends leaves you terrified, it's so hard to know how much to allow versus pull back.
[00:26:56] It seems as though the more I try to point out red flags, the more she thinks I'm criticizing her friends and not listening, which pushes her further away. Right. Relatable. So relatable. And I think the hard part about the conflicting messages around how to navigate risky behavior is a lot of times it centers the behavior instead of what is happening under the surface.
[00:27:25] Right, and listen, if I had a formula or a simple solution for the challenge, I'd be filthy rich. And again, I am gonna bring it back to curiosity neutrality. Have I mentioned neutrality yet? It matters because when you're teen. Sniffs out an agenda or a judgment. They shut down. They pull away pointing out the red flags is experienced as judgment.
[00:27:51] It makes sense that she's like, you're judging my friends. Instead, we can ask questions like, tell me about what you love about your friends, or how do you feel when you're around them? Or do you ever feel like you can speak up if you're not? Wanting to go with the flow of what they've got going on. And if the space is already critical between you and your daughter, you gotta clean it up, right?
[00:28:17] So it can sound like I've been really judgmental about your friends, and I wanna own that. I'm worried about some of the choices that you're making, and I'm worried about the kids that you're hanging out with making bad choices too. And it isn't fair for me to judge them or you without really knowing them.
[00:28:37] Right. That's some language that we can use to open up the space so that they're more willing to share and be self-reflective. And something else that I responded with to this person in the Facebook group, I said, I like to look through the lens of what are the skills she's missing. So for example, with the peer stuff.
[00:28:58] The desire to fit in is high, but the skills for navigating that choice point of, do I do this thing, don't I do this thing, is where she needs to develop her skills. Because even knowing I'll get in trouble if I get caught, it isn't exactly helpful in the moment. What I want for my kids is practice thinking.
[00:29:23] Okay, I don't wanna do this. So how can I get out of it or diffuse it while still saving face? How can I navigate my friends in this moment when top of mind for me is belonging and fitting in? So as a parent, I wanna focus on, man, okay? So last night you came home, we could smell alcohol on your breath. We know that you drove under the influence even though we have asked you and told you that you can always call us.
[00:29:52] Like, I'm really curious about that and, and tell me about that. Like, and really listen, you know, and it's hard to be a teenager and to be navigating choices and to like be a self-advocate and to stand up to our friends, like it's real. So some questions might sound like, did, do you ever feel like it's hard to be honest about what you're comfortable with when you're out with your group of friends?
[00:30:22] You know, I bet that's hard. How do you navigate that? Have you ever felt like you wanna speak up about something, like I said earlier, but aren't sure your friends will like it? That seems really tricky. Here's my experience with that. You know, you can talk about your own experience of being at a choice point and the pull of the herd mentality or the mob mind, wanting to be right, wanting to look good in front of your peers.
[00:30:45] No shade. We all navigate this to some degree, but our teens are new and inexperienced at this, so we get to give them some grace. Right. We get to help them puzzle it out and this parent followed up with, you know, I guess my biggest question at the moment is how to get to that place where your teen's willing to open up and share.
[00:31:08] Unfortunately, I've been a fixer and too much of an advice giver, then a listener. Now I have these new skills I wanna practice and the door is shut. Help. Yes. So relatable. We wanna fix, we wanna give advice. We'd love our kids so much. Our instinct is to protect them in the only ways that we know how and when things get dicey, we lean in hard on what we know.
[00:31:33] We shut it down, we lecture, we fix it. It's so much harder to pause and remember the iceberg, right? We love them so much and we wanna protect them, and we forget that supporting them in their skill development. And processing their choices with them from a non-judgmental place. This is protecting them.
[00:31:56] It's hard to sit with them when they've screwed up, and it's harder, even still to be curious when we want to read them the riot act. And yet this is what serves them the most. So what I shared with this parent is, you know, a place to start is acknowledging where you are, acknowledging it out loud to your teen.
[00:32:19] It could sound like, man, you know, I noticed that I have really contributed to a dynamic between us that has become really closed off. And when you've needed me to listen, I've jumped into advice or criticism or fix it mode, and I really am working and learning and trying to show up differently for you.
[00:32:39] I wanna show up differently for you, and I know it's gonna take time, but my hope is that you can trust me to grow, to be able to hold a space for you that's useful, where you still feel seen and heard and accepted. Right, or something like that. But you get to be vulnerable here, and you also need to know that it's gonna take time to change.
[00:33:05] Taking ownership is a huge first step, and then doing the work of showing up differently when the opportunity comes is really the most important place, right? Because we can talk, talk, talk, but if our actions aren't telling the story of leaning in and showing up differently. Then our talk doesn't mean anything.
[00:33:27] One of the really hard parts is the timeline, is the time it takes for things to shift and change, and the fact that they don't always learn from their first mistake. Some of our kids, it requires them to learn the same. Thing over and over and over again. And it can be infuriating. And sometimes we are, like I mentioned earlier, required to pull back on the privileges to take some time in as a family and connect with each other, revisit agreements, collaborate, connect, encourage, right?
[00:34:01] Stay focused on. What's going on under the surface? Bring it back to that and remember that it's okay for our kids to be mad at us. It's okay for them to feel disappointed, even pissed off, right? It's okay. This is relationship. And when you think about the healthiest relationships in your life, there's arguing, there's emotions, there's making amends, there's moving on.
[00:34:27] Sometimes better and closer because of the hard times. I. Right. We've gotta trust the process. We've gotta believe that what is happening under the surface is where the real power lies. When we dig in there and keep that in mind, we have to do our own work around self-regulation so that we can keep that iceberg in mind.
[00:34:50] We have to look for all the opportunities outside of the challenges to connect, build relationship, and enjoy each other. Right. This is the work.
[00:35:04] This is the work, and you've got this. I do too. I believe in us. I believe in us, and um, I believe in the person that wrote this post. I hope this was useful. If you're feeling all this and you're also in this place of like, yeah, it's. Great positive discipline. I get it in the easy times, and it's real hard in the hard times.
[00:35:28] I am here, right? If you're looking for support to do this work of being with your teen in a way that is helpful and not hurtful, you can reach out to me, book and explore. Call a 15 minute free call and let's talk. I'd love to listen to you and hear what you've got going on and see what kinds of offers I have that are the right fit for you.
[00:35:48] You can go to be sprout.com/explore to book a call with me. Again, it's free, and I leave you with the words I gave to my friend Cam. Don't make it worse. Don't make it worse. Keep growing through what you're going through. I will too, and I'm real excited to see you again next week. Have a beautiful day.
[00:36:10] Bye.
[00:36:18] Thank you so much for listening in today. Thank you so much to my Sprout partners, Julietta and Alana, as well as Danielle. And Chris Mann and the team at Pod Shaper for all the support with getting this show out there and helping it to sound so good. Check out our offers for parents with kids of all ages and sign up for our newsletter to stay better connected@besproutable.com.
[00:36:44] Tune back in on Monday for a brand new interview and I will be back solo with you next Thursday. Have a great day.
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