Transcription
[00:00:00] Casey O'Roarty: Hey, welcome to the Joyful Courage podcast, a place for inspiration and transformation as we try and keep it together while parenting our tweens and teens. This is real work, people. And when we can focus on our own growth and nurturing the connection with our kids, we can move through the turbulence in a way that allows for relationships to remain intact.
[00:00:27] My name is Casey O'Roarty, I am your fearless host. I'm a positive discipline trainer, space holder coach, and the adolescent lead at Sproutable. I am also the mama to a 20 year old daughter and 17 year old son walking right beside you on this path of raising our kids with positive discipline and conscious parenting.
[00:00:47] This show is meant to be a resource to you and I work really hard to keep it real, transparent, and authentic so that you feel seen and supported. Today is an interview and I have no doubt. That what you hear will be useful to you. Please don't forget, sharing truly is caring. If you love today's show, please pass the link around, snap a screenshot, post it on your socials or text it to your friends.
[00:01:13] Together we can make an even bigger impact on families all around the globe. I'm so glad that you're here. Enjoy the show.
[00:01:25] Hey everybody, welcome back to the podcast. I'm really excited about my interview today because I have on a podcast favorite and one of my dear friends and colleagues, Julietta Skoog. Most of you probably know her, but just to remind you, Julietta is a certified positive discipline trainer with an education of.
[00:01:49] Okay. What is the EDS Jules? It's an education specialty. Education specialty. I need to just spell that out in my notes. With an education specialty in school psych and a master's degree in school counseling from Seattle University, she is the early years lead and co founder of Sproutable, which offers grownups the tools, systems, and strategies they need to cultivate powerful relationships,
[00:02:15] teach social-emotional skills and set healthy limits and boundaries with all kids, from babies to teens. As you all know, her trauma-informed expertise includes early childhood development, autism learning disabilities, anxiety, behavior disorders, positive discipline, social thinking, and mindfulness.
[00:02:34] Julietta has helped families for over 20 years, including. Running the preschool assessment team and working in many elementary schools as a school psych and counselor for Seattle Public Schools. She draws from her real life practical experience, working with thousands of students with a variety of needs and her own three children when coaching parents, bringing a unique ability to translate research, child development, and positive discipline principles into everyday solutions.
[00:03:03] Her popular keynote speeches, classes, and workshops have been described as rejuvenating. motivating and inspiring. She is my speed dial go to person for sure on a lot of things that show up with my own kids. I'm so glad to have you back on the pod, Jules. Hi. Thanks for having me. I love being now a little regular.
[00:03:24] I know it's fun. And we've just kind of decided, yeah, that you and I are going to talk middle school regularly. I find that as my kids get older, I tend to talk about things that correlate with my kids age. And so I don't want to leave those of you that are coming into adolescence, who have kids in middle school and early adolescence, I don't want to leave you behind.
[00:03:47] So, Jules, this is such a great way. for me to make sure that the podcast is serving all in that adolescent season. You have a middle schooler, so you're in the thick of it, but you also, I want to, I have to highlight this, you also have a fresh 16 year old.
[00:04:04] Julietta Skoog: I do. It's weird. I mean, It was really sweet. I mean, there is something.
[00:04:11] We didn't have a huge to do. She's my Valentine baby, and so it always kind of meshes with like, Valentine's Day and the President's Day weekend and Big Break and everything. So there's a lot of people going in different directions. And I have three kids, so I also was like, ooh, you kind of set a precedent for like, what happens.
[00:04:30] It's at 16, you know, it becomes, we're big on traditions and things like this. So, but it was really sweet. It was just the right size. And really John and I had a moment where we were like, wow, we have a 16 year old, it's happening.
[00:04:44] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah, it's happening and she's driving.
[00:04:46] Julietta Skoog: She's totally driving. Got her license in the snow on one of our snow days and was totally drove, I mean metaphorically and literally the bus for the classes and being on it, you know, getting the, all the paperwork done and then hit a snafu when.
[00:05:05] She thought it just kind of automatically converted, but as I told her, oh, the DMV never just is a simple, a simple click of the button. We did have a moment at the DMV, a like three hour DMV adventure that sealed the deal. I could see her like shaking, like she was so nervous with, I mean, it was just a simple eye test, but then the person was, had a few questions.
[00:05:28] They really kind of put her to the fire a little bit and she was so nervous that it wasn't going to happen, you know, and I just really got to lean into that growth mindset opportunity. Like it might not, you know, never. Trust the DMV and also just holding that space with her, letting go of my own disappointment of like, Oh, I didn't realize I was spending three hours at the DMV this afternoon.
[00:05:51] But yeah, it was really sweet. We had this like total moment. We were like, yes, we did it, high fived. We came down to, I had literally a deadline where I was like, we have to, if, if it's not, if we're, if our number is not called. By 3 30 p. m. We have to leave like we have to hit the traffic for a medical appointment and it was like 327 oh my gosh, it's called.
[00:06:10] I mean so exciting and down to the way we were high fiving I was like everyone was cheering. It was great. So
[00:06:16] Casey O'Roarty: yes
[00:06:16] Julietta Skoog: license driving.
[00:06:17] Casey O'Roarty: We're in yes well and I have a lot of parents in my membership with kids that are coming into 16 or are 16 and coming into driving and I just want to publicly appreciate Josephine and you for sharing the contract that you co created with her around responsibilities around driving because I think it's, and it's, it really was useful.
[00:06:42] One of my members had reached out to in our community space and just said, Hey guys, how did you do this? What did you create with your kids as they, you know, got behind the wheel? Oh, it is, you know, they can be the most responsible kid and, but you can't account for other drivers and they're new, it doesn't matter.
[00:07:02] They're fresh, they're inexperienced and it can feel so, ah. But what I appreciated about what you created with her was really around the responsibility that she has to the family as a third driver and the privilege that she would be receiving around how you and John would be supporting her. inside of that responsibility.
[00:07:23] So it was less of, well, if you do this, then you don't get to drive. Which is interesting, because I think a lot of parents want to move in that direction. Anyway, this isn't a podcast about driving, but I just want to say thank you to Joce and
[00:07:37] Julietta Skoog: you. You're welcome, and I, yeah, there was a part we actually, as we were discussing it last night, I was like, well, we don't, we don't need to put in there that you're not going to text, or you're going to only, you know, we have a contingency in the Washington state where you can only drive your siblings, or within your family, you can't drive friends or anything.
[00:07:55] We're like, we don't need to put in, we don't need to say you're not going to, Drink and drive. I mean, all of that is, um, is. implied with the license. That's not in our contract. What I really wanted to get to was the clarity around the things that do get, get messy, get icky, you know, come up against the line for us.
[00:08:13] And so let's get that out of the way now because otherwise we're going to build some resentment. Both sides. Right. You know? And so, just get clear on those boundaries for both of us around what that is. And you know, I, she was like, really clear, I will be available all these other days. I want my Friday and Saturday nights.
[00:08:31] We were like, done. Great. Yeah. You know? And for her, that felt like such a great autonomy win around. Yeah. Just being able to declare those nights, you know?
[00:08:40] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Awesome. All right. We're talking middle school though today. So we're talking middle school. All of you middle school parents. I know you're probably thinking like, Oh God, I can't even wrap my head around.
[00:08:54] A few years from now and you're a kiddo behind the wheel, so don't worry about it. You don't have to. Um, I got a post in my Facebook community, and I thought, you know what, I'm gonna bring, I've been using posts and questions from my Facebook community to inform and inspire my solo shows, but I thought this one in particular would be a great one for you and I to tease apart.
[00:09:18] So I'm just gonna share it, and then we can talk about it. So, a mom wrote in, That I had done something like, Hey, parents of younger teens, what are you currently? Struggling with, what's the current challenge? And she said, Helping my 8th grade daughter cut out or tune out the unnecessary distractions.
[00:09:38] Social drama, pressures, and academic pressures. She's a perfectionist, and it weighs on her heavily, and distracts her from enjoying the school life. Sweet parts of being a teenager. She's a great student and in her free time, she dances on the middle school dance team for football and basketball, competitive dance with a company, assisting the theater teacher with choreography and serves as an aid at her dance studio.
[00:10:03] Our district and her school are hyper focused on what do you want to be when you grow up. Scores for the PSAT and the ACT, college scholarships, etc. All since the sixth grade. She's my third, and my oldest is in her second year of college, and her older brother is a rising senior in high school. So, I am well aware that while it may be well intentioned, all of the pressure and noise from school is unnecessary, unwarranted, and more harmful than helpful, in my opinion.
[00:10:36] Middle school is difficult enough without it. As her mother, all I can do is validate her feelings and reassure her that those are not my expectations, that most kids don't have it figured out, and even as seniors in high school, let alone as middle schoolers. Beyond encouraging her to trust that she will find something beyond extracurriculars that she enjoys or is passionate about, I'd love some ideas to help her reframe.
[00:11:04] So that was the post. And when I read it, what I hear is this is a super active kiddo with lots going on. High achieving. Um, that the post, you know, that the secondary school talk is happening very early on. Youngest of three. So she's been observing and meaning making for years now. And I am guessing what I pulled as the question of this post is how can the mom help her daughter reframe her perfectionism?
[00:11:38] What are you hearing?
[00:11:38] Julietta Skoog: Yeah, well the other part that I'm hearing is this idea of distractions. Of like these distractions from the sweetness of her. Life and passions also, and I just have to say this was like reading my love language because you know, I was a dancer I was a dance kid So just even hearing this type of you know on the dance team and helping the theater teacher or the choreographer With the choreography and the aid I was like, oh there was a little there's a little Julietta in there that I could relate to and actually my first Instinct in reading this, just because I'm a dancer, I was a dancer, I ended up literally majoring in college in dance and going on and dancing professionally for years until we were ready to start a family, is that dance itself is actually a really amazing protective factor, protective buffer, and that any type of these activities that we're talking about that, you know, are without phones, you know, whether they're running track or soccer or riding bikes or.
[00:12:44] I mean, anything, there's so many activities out there, you know, the little sewers and designers and artists and things, I mean, any of these activities where they are in the moment, there is no phone, they're not on social media, the fact that she is so engaged in all these different relationships and active is great, like, is already.
[00:13:06] a balance to these distractions, you know? And so I think that where I would get like concerned is if suddenly she was like totally not wanting to dance anymore and so consumed with these other distractions. But I think at a certain point, there's going to be distractions. There's going to be these, that's what middle school is, is about, right?
[00:13:26] It really, they're wired in their brain. To be part of a pack, to be orienting themselves within relationships, to be practicing with certain friendships, almost on a romantic level of just like really the nuance of communication and boundaries and like all of these things. So I think that was the kind of one of the pieces that came up for me, which is that it's, it's hard for us.
[00:13:53] As much as we want to, you know, this concept of us helping them tune out the distractions is really tricky. I don't know if there's necessarily like a way, but I think if we can reframe or help the daughter reframe these places where she really thrives. And it does feel really healthy for her in that space.
[00:14:15] I'm assuming that they all feel really good to her. You know, maybe it's opening up that idea of like, wow, how great to have these spaces where you really can be in your own. You're mindful. You just are so in the present. You're so present when you're, you know, dancing, doing some of these things. Um, so that was one piece that came up for me.
[00:14:43] Casey O'Roarty: I love that you shared your dance journey because I do notice in the very last sentence, It says beyond encouraging her to trust that she will find something beyond extracurriculars that she enjoys or is passionate about. Now what I'm hearing you say is that extracurricular thing, that was it. That's what you went to college for, that's what you pursued.
[00:15:07] And it wasn't until later that you pivoted towards going back to school and working with kids and your degrees in school psych and school counseling. I think so. I'm wondering, and I'm making a total assumption here, right? I, and that's the thing listeners, right? You've heard me say this before. I take these questions from parents and there's so much that I don't know for sure.
[00:15:30] But I'm wondering if there's this piece where the middle school daughter is like, Well, yeah, I love dance, but I'm supposed to get serious about a career. Or what am I going to study in college? Like, what's my major going to be? That academic piece. That is showing up based on, you know, the pressure of the district or the particular school, which I find really interesting because, you know, my kids went through a school system where I was like, can we like turn up the volume a little bit on that?
[00:16:02] Like, can we give him a little bit more rigor versus I know that there's places in the country absolutely where it is. So on the other side, and maybe the request is, can we turn it down a little bit? But what about this academic piece? What are you thinking about with that?
[00:16:17] Julietta Skoog: Well, and to be clear, I also was given a lot of messages, you know, around, yeah, you were in Berkeley.
[00:16:25] You weren't not as, um, yeah. And so I did not, while that was my major, I was also pre med. You know, medical school bound, I was dancing while I was still in grad school and working as a school psych and school counselor. So I just want to be clear that it wasn't like I was given permission to just to quote unquote, just be a dancer, just be an artist.
[00:16:45] And I will say there's a lot of work that I get to do now in my, you know, very late forties where bringing back up that artist that I think is in all of us, frankly, you know, and. I feel like it is the dance that gave me the discipline, the mindfulness, the high level executive functioning to be able to do all of those things.
[00:17:06] You know, the choreography, the right brain, left brain. I mean, there's so much when you are really in dance that translates to a highly. Functioning, you know, person in academics and in other roles and jobs.
[00:17:19] Casey O'Roarty: I imagine that dance would, I mean, that there could very easily be a tipping point towards perfectionism, just thinking about dancers and bodies and hitting your marks and all of that.
[00:17:33] That makes sense. And maybe there's a little bit of, did you experience that?
[00:17:37] Julietta Skoog: You know, I was definitely steeped in it around me. And your mistakes are literally on display. I was a modern dancer. I did a stint through the Alvin Ailey School, which comes from Horton and Martha Graham and African dance. And so there was a whole whole rich kind of depth to that culture of dance.
[00:18:03] Whereas for some of my friends who I danced with and met through college and things that had come from the world of pure ballet, for example, there was a different culture also where the perfectionism piece is even like. to a, to a total other level. Yeah, but it is, I mean, it's for real. It's no joke in terms of, yeah, some of the body image and things.
[00:18:23] I think that there was, I did have some protective factors for me. Thankfully that I never personally got to that point. I think I also just like I really love food and I really love, like, being comfortable and sleeping and, you know, finding balance and finding joy and, like, having friends and, you know, I just, I think I was always there.
[00:18:42] That's just a little bit more of my, of my temperament, but I think this, going back to this idea of these academics piece, there's a part to me. That some of the languaging that I've been drawing from Lisa D'Amore's work for my own girls Around this idea of the pressure and the academics and what is fascinating to me about some of the research around this is the approach to academics so where Some students will just and this is where I kind of fall into this camp to you like work work work work work overdo overdo overdo just like To the brink of exhaustion, you know, over highlight, over read, overdo everything versus the other type of student which is efficient.
[00:19:25] And they're actually well aware of what needs to get done in order to not necessarily even phone it in, but like, you really can still get a good grade, get an A even, like, really do it, but be more efficient, like, really understand that actually the key to test taking is practice tests, it's not actually like reviewing notes and highlighting and staying up really late, it's like actually practice tests.
[00:19:52] So I think You know, you talked about like schools kind of all over the country and I'm also I'm really curious about, you know, these institutions, like, are we really moving from a place of research based? Like are we giving kids frameworks and study habits and skills and not giving them seven hours of homework that is just redundant, but actually teaching them the smartest ways to study so that they aren't so burnt out or, you know, feel this pressure because they literally can't keep up.
[00:20:25] There's just too much volume. Yeah. And I'm looking at. Now, I mean, I don't know about you, Case, but like, you know, I was taking AP classes. I was like, you know, definitely juggling a lot, a job. I had, I mean, you know, I was working from young age, obviously, like, you know, babysitting, but also I was working in a gym.
[00:20:42] I was helping another dance teacher. Like these kids are also juggling a lot. So I think about this little eighth grader now with these two older siblings. And your phrase around making meaning, right, just that birth order itself, observing a lot what is valued, what is out of consciousness, I think just what is like, this is how we do it.
[00:21:03] The culture that we swim in, we work really hard. And so it's just natural that they're going to be talking about that. And that's going to be part of their, their world where I think there can be some usefulness for this eighth grader is talking about that tactical shift. Because I think there is a part where we do need to value that they care.
[00:21:21] Like, I remember Joss just really, like, having a moment of just being like, What if I don't figure it out? Like, really scared about that. What if I don't figure it out? And of course, we're like, my God, of course, everybody, you know, you'll find your path. Everyone finds their thing that you want to do. It's not, you know, of course you're not going to know what it is in high school.
[00:21:41] But for some of these kids that run wired, you know, in a certain A type and self driven,
[00:21:50] Casey O'Roarty: which
[00:21:50] Julietta Skoog: is a strength, that is a, that is a worry. And so I think we need to meet them there. I mean, really validate that it is such an uncomfortable place to be. And so I think there's actually a really fine line there where Brene Brown talks about this.
[00:22:07] Because it's uncomfortable, we actually go into a workaholic kind of mode. We overwork, we overdo, we over get the accolades or the things to avoid that uncomfortable place. So I think this mom was right on. You know, she was like, besides validating that this isn't a value that we come from. I think there's a place to really hold that uncomfortability with this eighth grader and just really acknowledge that it is really overwhelming for kids and high schoolers to, like, not know what their future looks like or not know if they're going to figure it out instead of just dismissing it like, We don't really care.
[00:22:45] You know, I mean, I think they really need to be seen in that way. And my hunch is that this eighth grader is, is really mature, you know, having older siblings and sounds like being in, it's kind of a culture and having that kind of personality and temperament. And so, yeah, really meeting them there.
[00:23:01] Casey O'Roarty: It's so interesting.
[00:23:02] I just want to go back to just what were, what kids are being offered right now in school. And I remember Rowan. Early in middle school, you know, she had always just loved school and sixth grade did great, you know, as far as like looking at her report card, got all her stuff done. I can't remember if it was sixth grade or seventh grade, but She got her first C, and she freaked, like, over the top, freaked out about it.
[00:23:34] And we got to have a conversation around, like, expectations, and what her expectations are, and what my expectations are, and like, It was pretty concerning. Her response to this was pretty concerning. And then what happened is her pendulum swung so hard, right? And then as everybody pretty much knows Rowan's story with school, which was a mental health situation as well, but coming into now as a college student, she's had to learn how to study because she didn't learn how to study and learn, not only learn how to study.
[00:24:09] Cause I. Also went to a very rigorous high school. It was a college prep Catholic high school and you know It was just the water that I swam in so I didn't realize it, you know until raising my own kids And I'm like really you have no homework. What is going on here? But I and I moved through with fine enough, you know doing fine enough efficient, I guess.
[00:24:30] However, retention? None. Like really very little retention. And Rowan has taught herself how, you know, and she's taking all these pre med, you know, science STEM classes, and she studies to remember, she studies to retain. And there is like kind of a broader question that I think all of us parents get to sit with, which is how are we using our voice?
[00:24:54] in our districts to make sure that our kids truly are being set up for success if, you know, college and higher education is the direction that they're going in because you're right, seven hours of homework. Busy work isn't the same as learning how to study to retain and move on. We don't have to go down that rabbit hole, but I did want to bring that up because I think it's so important.
[00:25:17] So I want to keep on this thread of perfectionism. And I do want to also, as you did, celebrate that I feel like this mom is really skilled. I think this is one of those. challenges that it's like, I'm doing, I'm doing what I think all the things are and my kid is still struggling. So there is that reminder that we can be using all of our tools and showing up as best as we can.
[00:25:46] And part of the work isn't so much. That that's going to solve all our problems, but then it is being with, right? Like, yep, this is something that is challenging and what I love what you said around meeting her where she's at. Like, yeah, man, you are in a hardcore district. There is a lot of talk about college and, and why would that be and, and who's this, who are the stakeholders in that and kind of teasing that apart and then, you know, continuing to reiterate.
[00:26:18] What are your expectations? As well as, you know, daughter, what do you want? What's important to you? Right. After having kind of highlighted and validated, yeah, you are kind of in this pool of intensity and it must feel really overwhelming. Right. I see you in that.
[00:26:37] Julietta Skoog: I was thinking about this eighth grade piece of perfectionism.
[00:26:41] I'm thinking about, um, just growth mindset in general also. And I do think there's a place where we can challenge. Using this language now, this is part of our education vocabulary, right, is this idea of a growth mindset and this idea of we've got to learn through mistakes, we've got to celebrate mistakes, we've got to, you know, be flexible and actually be a little bit open, a little free, a little bit loose, you know, to get messy.
[00:27:12] And actually that's. That's good for, that's healthy. That's good for our brain. But for the older kids, like no way are they going to hear that from us, you know? And so I just was thinking about the power also specifically because this parent is saying, what else can I do, you know? And I think that the antidote to perfectionism is I love you no matter what.
[00:27:33] Right. Perfectionism actually hides in conditional love. It's like chasing this perfectionism so that I am loved or I am seen or I am finally accepted. And so I think actually there's a lot of kind of low level things that we can do as parents of just pure, like unconditional love, like really showing up physically for them.
[00:27:58] I mean, I know with My 8th graders or 8th grader now 7th grader Just me sometimes just coming in and just giving them a really big hug and even like just kind of rubbing their shoulder I'm just thinking about this little 8th grade dancer. God give her a little massage, you know, like Really give just a real physical presence even I mean they seem like they're big kids, but like crawling to bed with her, you know and give her a big Snuggle and say I love you so much.
[00:28:25] Like I just love you Because you and I were talking off camera kind of before, I think, around, like, there are places where, of course, we're like, sure, go make mistakes, but don't make the big ones, right? Yeah. Sure, don't worry about epidemics, but don't bring home a C, you know? I mean, there are these hidden messages, obviously, that we are a part of this culture that has Let kids know what is approved and what is not.
[00:28:51] And so I think that is, there's a really beautiful quote I probably should have had. I read it actually in all of my classes, all of my six week classes at the end, which is that idea of that, like, I'm a recovering perfectionist. It's like, it is the idea that the world is somehow broken. You know, that everything is conditional.
[00:29:11] And so, yeah, this idea that we really can just on sort of a visceral level and a consistent way that we show up with that unconditional love for our kids too.
[00:29:24] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah, yeah, I mean, I, I found, especially with Ian, who had the more traditional school pathway through K 12, you know, I worked hard to just kind of continuously hand it over to him.
[00:29:39] Like, what do you want to create this quarter? What does it look like for you? What are the doors you want to remain open? How might that affect that? And, you know, and My expectation is not perfectionism. My expectation is do the best you can. And I think it's so funny when we say do the best you can. What we don't say is, like, and if you're doing the best you can, like, it's easy to pull off A's.
[00:30:03] Right? Especially in a class, like, I remember Ian coming home with a C in leadership. I was like, dude, that's called an easy A, like what happened here, right? So it can, and I just want to highlight this, and I think parents resonate with this, like it can totally feel messy. Like I want you to do well, and I want you, my child, to think about how one thing leads to another.
[00:30:27] And. The best way to learn about how one thing leads to another is the variety of outcomes that they get to live through, right? And trusting, like you said, Hey man, this is, okay, great. You came home with a C, so how does that, how does that feel for you? You know, it, how does that work in your big picture?
[00:30:47] Is it a big deal? You know, what if, and I'm thinking about him, of course, because as a senior, you know, how might this affect your college entrance, you know, where you've already decided to go? Will it? I don't know. Well, maybe you should talk to your counselor and see if that's something to look into, but really continuously handing it over.
[00:31:06] And I think with a kid like, This parent's eighth grader, while the eighth grade is still young, like you already mentioned, it sounds like she's pretty mature. She's got a lot going on. And I don't think there's any reason that mom can't be in these conversations just around, like, well, what do you want to create?
[00:31:22] What's important to you? You know, what's the balance you want to strike? You love dance. Like, what does that look like as you move into high school and things get, you know, perhaps more rigorous, but really just continuously just handing over. To them. Yeah. So that they can create their own expectations for themselves.
[00:31:41] What do you think?
[00:31:41] Julietta Skoog: I want to just go out to yes to all of that. And I want to highlight really two specific things in the email. Um, one is this idea of being this aid to the one person. And the other one is being that like helping with the choreography, right? With the theater. So I'm just imagining my little Juliet in middle school also that was went to go be the little helper.
[00:32:03] And I'm just wondering if that's a place where this parent can. Draw out. Is this really what this eighth grader wants to be doing? Or does this eighth grader feel some pressure? I'm not trying to call out anybody. I don't even know where this is happening in the country, but like, you know, or is there just some pressure again, I'm sure unintentionally that we put on, I think in this case, it is a girl where like, when you're asked, we don't actually know, we haven't been taught how to say no.
[00:32:33] Casey O'Roarty: We
[00:32:34] Julietta Skoog: haven't been taught how to say, that sounds really cool, but I think I'm at my max, you know? We have been maybe conditioned to be nice or like, or this has been maybe a dance teacher that, because that's the other kind of tricky thing where we get coaches or teachers where, you know, kids are very formative.
[00:32:54] And so you get into these relationships and you don't want them to. think of you as less, you don't want to disappoint them. There's a lot of this disappointment. And so I think actually eighth grade is a great place to start being like, but in your heart, what do you want? And then the coaching is around how to have that language.
[00:33:10] For saying no, or in a different season, or once this production is over, but I do wonder when I'm reading that list of things, like, those parts didn't bring me joy, you know, I know, when I was eight. I wanted to just be dancing my little heart out, you know. I didn't want to necessarily be the grown up yet in that position.
[00:33:31] I mean, it was fun for me to try on, but I quickly, even though I loved little kids and stuff, I was like, Oh, this isn't actually as fun. You know? And I think there's that part too, where we really still want to cultivate, which is what I think this parent is asking is like the joy. You know, I'm wondering about that.
[00:33:56] Casey O'Roarty: I love that you pulled that thread. I didn't even think about it or see it, but it's so, you're so right. You know, especially for our kids that we just, I just had Jen Ireland on last week talking about athletes. Yes, she's
[00:34:11] Julietta Skoog: amazing. Yes.
[00:34:13] Casey O'Roarty: I can't wait to look that. And she talked about, you know, highly competitive athletes and perfectionism shows up for them, relationship with coaches.
[00:34:21] I think that our young people can build relationship with their mentors and yeah, it is a big honor. To be asked and I think unintentionally we might even say like, Oh my gosh, that's such a big deal. How exciting. And so the idea of saying no, I mean, how many of us are right now listening to this conversation, thinking about all the things on your list that you wish you did not say yes to, like it's an ongoing lifelong struggle.
[00:34:54] So I love to remember there's opportunities to teach. that starting so young and it's such a gift that you just kind of pulled that apart. And you know, I'm thinking about people who are listening who might be feeling like, you know what? A little perfectionism would go a long way for my kid, right? Like those kids that really seem to be lacking in self drive and maybe there's.
[00:35:16] You know, learning challenges that are getting in the way. There's so many layers, you know, I know I have a couple of clients whose kids are high achieving perfectionist kids who are flailing because it's like, I can't be perfect. It kind of shuts them down completely. What about that? Yes.
[00:35:36] Julietta Skoog: Yeah. I won't even try.
[00:35:38] I'm not going to go out for that team or I'm not going to. Extra class or go to that social thing or like, yeah, it's really hard and I, and that is a slippery slope because we know how that shows up later in life is a really hard. That's a hard thing to untangle from. And to me it runs in the anxiety kind of umbrella, this sort of perfectionism piece and this not even been willing to try or go or, and so it's almost, it's that level, right?
[00:36:08] If it's an anxiety, if it's actually truly affecting. your life, there's a little bit of disorder there in terms of feeling so anxious or feeling something that is holding you back. So to me, the antidote to that is exposure therapy, right? It's like the baby little exposure things. And so I think it is slicing it thinner, slicing it thinner, slicing it thinner.
[00:36:30] And you and I know in the languaging of positive discipline and Adlerian. psychology when we as a parent might feel totally helpless or overwhelmed or how do I get my kid they won't even like they're so they're so um frozen or sort of paralyzed yeah it's perfection Yeah, like we can't, they're not little anymore, can't just like pick them up and say we're going, you know.
[00:36:55] But what they're really saying to us, what our children are really saying to us in that moment is show me a small step, don't give up on me, you know. And so maybe what we want them to do is this whole big thing, but actually what is for us to shift our lens of like, what's just something small that they can do so they can start feeling a little bit of success.
[00:37:15] Yeah,
[00:37:15] Casey O'Roarty: and I think that's true for both of those scenarios that I kind of threw into one question with those kids that are just deeply discouraged, as well as, you know, the kids that are kind of stuck in that perfectionist cage. So thank you for that reminder around, yeah, scaffolding, small steps, remembering past success and highlighting it and speaking it, oh yeah, I remember when you didn't want You know, try out for this or turn in this and you did it anyway and remember the results and man It was really hard or you didn't like the results and you move through it or you had great results And that was something to celebrate.
[00:37:56] So yes, I appreciate that So as we kind of think about this mama, first of all big Thanks to this parent anytime anyone shows up in my Facebook community and is willing to share and be vulnerable I am just so grateful because We're all on a collective journey and I think when we share about our struggles, other people who are walking with the same challenges feel less alone and seen.
[00:38:22] So thank you to the mama that shared about this. She also shared a little follow up, um, that I won't get into here, but if you're in the Facebook group, be sure to go find it. Is there anything else you want to share just around this topic before we close?
[00:38:36] Julietta Skoog: Yeah, I think the one last piece that comes to me is around the idea of modeling and I think this is just true for Parenting 101, which is that anytime a challenge comes up for us We are like, oh wow gives us this gift as a parent to be like, oh, what is this?
[00:38:52] Actually that we're teaching how am I showing up around this? What's my relationship with this? You know, and so I know just because I happen to have an you know, my oldest runs in that in that lane um And then, in middle school, just in general, I mean, having a 7th grader right now myself, like, it is really showing up for me how, even though they're, they act like they don't care what you do, or say, or Or as if you really exist.
[00:39:26] That modeling presence really does make a difference. And so I've just noticed in myself, too, how I celebrate mistakes, how I model, like, really being, I can't believe this, Casey, there was like a few times where I found myself almost lying, like compulsively lying. about something I had just done, like, or, like, over, like, sort of skipping over, and then really saying to them, no, I laid on the couch and took a nap.
[00:39:57] I went and wandered the lake by myself. Like, I went down to the museum because it was, like, free first Thursday. Like, almost, like, hiding, rest, and Creativity and you know, because instead I'm like, I'm so busy, right? Yeah. Doing productive, doing all these things and like I'm so, yeah. So productive.
[00:40:17] Productive. Mm-hmm . That was the messaging and messaging that I was given right up. Right? Like, be productive. If you are not working, you are sleeping. If you are not sleeping, you are working your ass off. There is no hanging around. Right? Yeah. So just even not noticing my tendency to like not share those things and actually modeling that, like modeling.
[00:40:38] I'm getting into bed. I can't wait to just like rest and like read a juicy novel or, Oh, I'm just going to hang around. I mean, I really try to model that sort of balance. And I think for your, the other piece for the kids that maybe need the boost, they don't need modeling around that, you know, then it's like, how are we modeling that we're going and being adventurous or getting outside.
[00:40:59] So I think just taking a look at what the scenario is and see how it's showing up for you, you know, just that, that opportunity to. Look at it from a family lens.
[00:41:09] Casey O'Roarty: I love that. And I call it living out loud. I've been, that's how I've been speaking it. Like, so even, even in your story of like, Oh, even being able to say, Oh my gosh, girls, it's so interesting.
[00:41:19] I was just telling you about my day. And for some reason I wanted to hide the fact that I took a nap and laid on the couch. Isn't that funny? I wonder what that's like, just being willing to share. What you're moving through like I'm really moving through some screen time issues that I have and I've been talking to my family about it like taking Facebook and Instagram off my phone and how that makes Me feel and where I'm spending time now that I don't have Instagram reels to fall into and it's so interesting But we get to live out loud We get to live in a way that really highlights to our kids that we're all moving through our own stuff and we're all You know, making choices.
[00:41:57] And I think it's a beautiful model of self awareness when we can speak it, right, and be explicit about it. Also, because
[00:42:04] Julietta Skoog: when we, be explicit because middle school, let me tell you, their favorite tool and dare I say weapon is hypocrisy. They will turn on you in a minute and say, you are such a hypocrite.
[00:42:18] You, who are you to be some expert when you are X, Y, Z, let me tell you. So when we can as a parent coaches,
[00:42:31] so really gleaning into that, we get to learn from them too. You know, that we aren't the that like, This is a thing where it's like really just staying in that curiosity of like, wow, you know, how is that showing up? Yeah.
[00:42:45] Casey O'Roarty: And in that theme of modeling and, and being explicit, being transparent, what is joyful?
[00:42:51] How does joyful courage work into that for you today?
[00:42:54] Julietta Skoog: Wow, I love when you ask me this question. I love when I hear other people's answers in all of your episodes. They're so, it really is powerful. I mean, to me, the courage of that vulnerability to show up. You know, with curiosity about what our own trajectory was, I think, in that sense of like being vulnerable of modeling of also letting them be in discomfort, letting them be in this really tricky time, you know, and holding space that takes courage because We want to fix it.
[00:43:28] We want to buffer it. We want to, you know, make things be smoother and let them just have a really happy existence, you know? And so I think it takes a lot of courage just to be a parent. Honestly, it takes so much courage to show up as yourself and to be in, like to be in the game, you know, and not just check out.
[00:43:48] So I think it takes a lot. Courage to just be leaning in and into this time and be present, you know? And I think the joyful part is like just continuing to, like, just in today's conversation, you know, really thinking about this eighth grader and thinking about like this one year of eighth grade, like I just am thinking about like eighth grade, you know, remembering who you were as an eighth grader, like just finding some joy in.
[00:44:16] Seeing the world through their eyes, you know, like
[00:44:18] Casey O'Roarty: beautiful,
[00:44:19] Julietta Skoog: really being like, what are they into? Like, who are they? Like when you look back and you're like, Oh, that was, you know, your eighth grade year, like just to really kind of having that stamp in time as like a fun little joyful, almost like time capsule, you know, time.
[00:44:34] Yeah. Just love that. Yeah.
[00:44:37] Casey O'Roarty: Thank you. Remind
[00:44:38] Julietta Skoog: people where they can find you and follow your work. You can find me at besproutable. com. You can find me on, um, socials at besproutable. You can find us on YouTube. We have a lot of great videos on YouTube that are super helpful. I have a siblings workshop at the end of this month that is really helpful for all of you people that have friends and sisters and brothers with kids with siblings.
[00:45:01] So it's focused on the early years in elementary. I've got a power workshop on siblings this month. I have a power workshop next. month on anxiety in children. And then I have a power workshop in May around growth mindset. So definitely share it with your people. Yeah, we'll
[00:45:17] Casey O'Roarty: make sure all those links, all the power workshops that we're offering up through Sproutable are in the show notes.
[00:45:23] Thank you so much for hanging out with me, Jules. I love you.
[00:45:26] Julietta Skoog: Love you too.
[00:45:33] Casey O'Roarty: Thank you so much for listening in today. Thank you so much to my Sproutable partners, Julietta and Alanna, as well as Danielle. And Chris Mann and the team at Podshaper for all the support with getting this show out there and helping it to sound so good. Check out our offers for parents with kids of all ages and sign up for our newsletter to stay better connected at besproutable.
[00:45:58] com. Tune back in on Monday for a brand new interview and I will be back solo with you next Thursday. Have a great day.
See more
