Eps 516: Motivating teens with Dr. Melanie McNally

What does joyful courage mean to you

I think it’s the bravery of doing hard things with a smile on your face and being able to face challenges, no matter how difficult they are, with an attitude or perspective of gratitude, playfulness, or fun. 

 

Resources

Joyful Courage Episode 316: Teens, Therapy, and Mental Health

Dr. McNally’s Website  

Dr. McNally’s New Book – “Helping Your Unmotivated Teen: A Parent’s Guide to Unlock Your Child’s Potential”

“The New Adolescence” by Dr. Christine Carter 

Free Resources from Dr. McNally

Dr. McNally on Instagram 

Coaching with Dr. McNally

Subscribe to the Podcast

Transcription

SUMMARY KEYWORDS
parents, teen, book, kids, talk, motivation, people, scaffolding, struggle, kiddos, child, place, internal motivation, listeners, conversation, college, adults, screen, grades, coaching
SPEAKERS
Casey O'Roarty, Melanie McNalley

Casey O'Roarty 00:02
Hey, welcome to the joyful courage podcast, a place for inspiration and transformation as we try and keep it together while parenting our tweens and teens, this is real work, people, and when we can focus on our own growth and nurturing the connection with our kids, we can move through the turbulence in a way that allows for relationships to remain intact. My name is Casey orrdy. I am your fearless host. I'm a positive, disciplined trainer, space holder, coach and the adolescent lead at sproutable. I am also the mama to a 20 year old daughter and 17 year old son walking right beside you on this path of raising our kids with positive discipline and conscious parenting. This show is meant to be a resource to you, and I work really hard to keep it real, transparent and authentic, so that you feel seen and supported. Today is an interview, and I have no doubt that what you hear will be useful to you. Please don't forget, sharing truly is caring. If you love today's show, please pass the link around, snap a screenshot, post it on your socials, or text it to your friends. Together, we can make an even bigger impact on families all around the globe. I'm so glad that you're here. Enjoy the show. You all right, welcome back, listeners. I am so happy that you're tuning in today. My guest is Dr Melanie McNally. Dr McNally is a licensed clinical psychologist and brain coach who helps adolescents and adults maximize their potential so they can get the most out of life. She combines personal development, peak performance, coaching, cheerleading and accountability to help people discover who they truly are. Some of you probably remember her from Episode 316 when she came on and we talked about getting teens to therapy and adolescent mental health doctor McNally has worked in the mental health field since 2005 and currently has two books out the emotionally intelligent teen and helping your unmotivated teen. She lives in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan with her husband, dogs and cats. Hi, Doctor. McNally, welcome back to the podcast.

Melanie McNalley 02:17
Hello. Thank you for having me back.

Casey O'Roarty 02:19
Yeah, and like I mentioned in the intro, you work with teens and adults, and you're here to talk about your new book helping your unmotivated teen, a parent's guide to unlock your child's potential. What instigated this? Why this topic?

Melanie McNalley 02:35
So one of the biggest reasons why parents will reach out to me to work with their teens is they will tell me, like, my teen is lazy. And I was hearing this message again and again from parents and like they wanted support and help in this. And as I started to kind of, you know, unpack what they meant by lazy and looking at what was going on with their teen, it was like, well, this isn't really a laziness issue. This is a motivation issue. And a lot of parents don't understand. A lot of people in general don't understand what motivation is actually made of, how it works. And so I wanted to get a resource out there to parents so they could understand it's not actually laziness, it's a motivation issue, and then we can break it apart, and we can look at which part of motivation is your child's struggling with. And then here are some tips and tools that can help you get them motivated. Yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 03:33
and I mentioned this is great timing, and I'm seeing the same thing, right? And I created a workshop that's happening soon for parents to encourage that sense of self drive with their teens. Because, you know, just like so much of what you write about in your book aligns with that topic, and what I'm seeing with parents as well, and parents are feeling that feeling of like, Oh, my teen's lazy. There's so many layers to once we as people who work with parents, and we start digging around, and there's quite a few layers that exist inside of a statement like that. When you agree, yes,

Melanie McNalley 04:12
absolutely like sometimes it can be that the parent themselves is someone who's like a very high achiever. They're used to being really productive, and then they kind of assume that that's how everyone should be, or that's how their kids should be, when really that might not be the case, like we all operate differently, and so they just might have a different activity level than the parent. Sometimes it's that the kid is just they don't have a passion or a purpose, or maybe they don't have the grit, they don't have the ability to stick with things, or they don't have clear goals. And so it's one of those elements that the teen might really be struggling, but the parent just kind of, you know, chalks it all up under the umbrella of laziness. Talk a

Casey O'Roarty 04:59
little bit about. The difference between internal and external motivation. Because, I mean, I just launched my youngest my listeners are going to be so over listening to me say this out loud, but it's big deal. And you know, a lot of the conversations that we had as he, you know, in his senior, junior and senior year, both centered around you're gonna get to college and it's gonna be more rigorous, because I was very unimpressed with what was happening in our local public school. And I think that there's an overall kind of like, you know, depending on where you live, and when we talk about motivation, I know that it's not all about academics, but parents really glom on to like, grades and performance and academic stuff. And I think a lot of the conversations that I have with parents around this, I get to also remind them that they have a whole child and not just a student, you know. And I think we can see outside of the situation, the value in Yeah, you go to school. It's not very inspiring, but you do it anyway, and that's how you grow and you learn all these skills, because your stick to itiveness of this really uninspiring environment, right? Is gonna serve you later, and we're saying this to 14, 1516, year olds, but it matters that internal and external motivation really matters. Can you talk a little bit about and tease those two things apart? Because I think, I mean, I was paid for grades as a kid. Yeah, I didn't make a lot of money. I'll just leave it at that.

Melanie McNalley 06:33
That's funny, because I was such a dork that, like, I really loved school growing up, and I would beg my parents to pay me for my grades, but I always got, like, A's who did really well, which didn't really make sense, but I like, I felt like I should be rewarded, yeah, but no. So the external validation or the external motivation are exactly what you're referring to, like those rewards that are outside of them. So it could be, you know, grades, it can be money, it could be likes on social media, but those are all things that are outside of us, that are might motivate us. And the thing is, with adolescents, is they do respond to rewards in a different way than adults do, and so they do have a bigger impact on them, you know, getting the money, getting the praise, that is going to push them harder than it might for an adult, but then the internal motivation is what comes from our internal drive. So that's going to be our passion, our purpose, our autonomy, you know, our mastery of something. Those are the things that come from inside of us that nobody else has any say in, but they are going to really push us forward and like, drive us forward. Because if I'm passionate about something, I want to do it, or if it's really connected with my purpose, my sense of purpose, or if I notice myself that mastery, if I notice myself getting incrementally better and better at something that's going to help me. You know, want to continue doing it? Yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 08:08
well, and it's interesting just thinking about because I think that I know in my experience of being a teenager, my family members, my parents, really leaned on those external motivators, and they were useful until I didn't care, right? Like, when you want to take your car to college, you've got to achieve this GPA. And I really sat with how badly do I want my car in college, right? Or how important is it to me, you know? And so I think that it's interesting, because I'm having this conversation a lot of different contexts. Different contexts right now with parents, but there is a place for those external motivators. There's a place for limits and boundaries. And really what our eyes need to be focused in on is, how are we supporting our kids and developing that internal compass, that internal motivation, that thing that's going to keep them moving, even as those external pieces fall away. So I think it's such an important conversation for sure and

Melanie McNalley 09:13
well. And you know, you mentioned about how the car taking the car to college that didn't have a big impact on you, and one of the things I mentioned in the book, is the quickest way for a parent to kill motivation is to attach a reward to something that your child is already interested in. And so if your kid, you know, if you are already excited about going to college, like, you don't need any external motivators to go because, like, maybe you're excited to get out of the house and away from your parents, and that's enough of a motivator. But if a parent now attaches some sort of external thing to it, that's like a total motivation killer, yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 09:50
well, and for me, it was more of like, what do we got to do to make sure you pass your classes? But what really, you know, my end. Internal motivation as a student came when I decided that I wanted to go back to school and be a teacher like that's when it actually turned out to be kind of easy to get good grades. And I wanted those good grades because to me, the good grades were a reflection of knowing what I was doing in the classroom with all of these kids who were going to show up every day, right? And to teach. And I'm seeing the same thing with, you know, like, the same kind of thing is showing up early days, right? We're only a few days in, but my son, who's in college, is like, Mom, I really want to get, you know, this GPA, because I have to apply into the business school. I have to basically, you know, the competition of it is motivating him right now. And he's never really been in a situation where he's had to compete academically to get to where he wants to go, and he's making the connection around the degree that he wants to achieve. He's so farther, much farther ahead of me, and, like, even in day three of college, than I was the entire time of my undergraduate degree. But yeah, so that internal drive is everything. And I wonder too, and I love that you mentioned those high achieving parents. I have a couple of clients who are very high achieving, who have kiddos that are pretty okay with being mediocre at school anyway. And you know, and I remind them as well that, you know, keep looking for those places of passion and trust that when they find it, it's gonna light a fire for them. It's gonna light a fire for them. You talk about autonomy too, and autonomy being different than independence? Can you make that distinction?

Melanie McNalley 11:38
Yeah, so autonomy is one of the, the key ingredients to that internal drive. So in order for people to have that internal motivation or that internal drive, you know, it's purpose, it's passion, it's mastery, and autonomy is in there too. And so autonomy is where they have some control over the decisions in their life. Now it doesn't mean total independence. It's not like, okay. Here are the keys to the car. Go do what you want. That would be independence. Autonomy is okay. There are expectations around how you drive, when you're able to drive, and as long as you're able to drive and use the car and meet these expectations, you can continue to use the car, but if you don't like if you come back with the empty tank of gas, and maybe that's one of the rules we have with the car, or maybe you took it out without permission, you've just lost driving privileges. So it's putting them in control, because they get to decide how they want to operate within the set of guidelines and rules that you've established. And so a lot of times, when I talk to parents about autonomy, yeah, they'll go to the independence place, and they're like, Well, I can't just let them do this. You know, that's crazy. They're going to set the house on fire. It's like, No, you're setting those limits and parameters, and now they get to decide how they want to behave within those parameters. And then there's going to be the consequences if they don't. And so it doesn't have to be this huge argument or, like, really punitive about how they screwed up or the mistakes they made, but more of like, No, these are the logical consequences you didn't follow these guidelines. So now you lose this privilege for whatever X amount of time. And

Casey O'Roarty 13:24
how do you support parents with collaboration when it comes to expectations and guidelines? I mean, there's things like, you know, you have to be a certain age to get a driver's license. Like, that's non negotiable. And like, I tell parents, you have permission to have non negotiables, of course, and places where we can create collaboration are going to increase the likelihood of follow through. How do you talk to parents about just that CO creating guidelines and agreements? So

Melanie McNalley 13:53
I always encourage parents to make sure first to kind of do, like a vibe check before having those collaborative kinds of discussions. You want to make sure that you know you're doing it at a time where it's like, not really stressful. Your teen isn't super anxious or upset about something. So you want the vibe to be fairly good, so that they're open to that discussion. And then, yeah, you're framing of like, okay, we want to make sure that we're all on the same page, that we all know what the rules are, we all know what the consequences are going to be, and that there's some negotiation and some agreement in it. And like you said, though, parents can absolutely have non negotiables within that conversation, and they can let them know, you know, at the from the start, what those non negotiables are, and then they might have some areas where they're willing to negotiate on and it's really helpful, because you want the teen to buy into it. You want them feel like they had some say in this. And this could even be done through weekly family meetings. And parents of younger kids can even, you know, start that at a young age, where they people have a. Say in how the chore chart for the house is designed, or, you know, how the money is going to be spent if you guys are going to buy a new TV, or if you're going to use it for a vacation. And that gives everyone a sense of like they have some say in what's going on in their lives, which is really important.

Casey O'Roarty 15:21
I was so sad when my kids got to an age where they were embarrassed by the handmade chore charts that we used to like make together and take pictures. And the kids got to a certain age, they were like, can we get rid of those? But they're so helpful. Yes, yes, yes, yes. I love that. And listeners, you know, if you go to the website and search family meetings, you're going to find a bunch of different podcast episodes and blog posts about family meetings. I'm a huge fan. The more regular, the better. Always aiming for weekly. Didn't do great there in the end, but

Melanie McNalley 15:55
it's a goal. It is and, you know, and they don't have to be lengthy, right? Totally be like, five to 10 minutes. Yeah? You know, I think sometimes parents get hung up on we need to have an agenda, and it needs to be like, this block of time, and they make it really difficult. And it really can be as simple as, like, Okay, five minutes after dinner, we're having this conversation, and then we're breaking we're done. Yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 16:20
there's so many directions I want to go in. But before we get into the meat of it, something that I really appreciated about your book is you, I think it's in the intro, even you take a moment and you acknowledge screen addiction and depression, which are different conversations than you know the kid who's lacking in motivation, and so we won't get into those rabbit holes, because they're massive. But can you just highlight those enough to where a listener might be able to recognize, okay, I'm not dealing with a kid who's just unmotivated. There's something bigger going on.

Melanie McNalley 16:56
Yes. So depression, it looks different in adults than it does in teens, and a lot of people will think of depression as you know, you can't get out of bed, you're crying all the time, you're hopeless. And in teens, it looks very different. Teens, when they're depressed, it looks like chronic irritability. It looks like a lot of vague physical health complaints, where maybe you've even gone to the doctor a lot for, like, stomach aches and headaches, and there's not really any reason for, you know, these physical issues. It looks like a lot of complaining, social isolation, change in things that they used to be interested in, and that is normal to a certain extent. Teens are constantly changing their identity and trying different things on. But if you know that, like, Okay, your team pretty consistently has always enjoyed this one activity or this one friend group, and you notice that, like, they're just not getting enjoyment out of those things anymore, and then they're not even being replaced by any else and so, and maybe they're talking a lot about, you know, how bad they are at things, or you're just noticing a lot of talk that is like really low self worth. Those can be signs of more significant than low motivation. So those could be indicators of depression. And then obviously you want to, you know, at that point, reach out to the help of a mental health professional, whether that's going to the school, school counselor, school psychologist, or finding a local therapist or psychologist. Yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 18:26
and listeners revisit the conversation I had with Melanie the first time again, that was episode 316 because I feel like that episode you and I actually talk about, you know how to encourage our kids to be open to help, because as I listen to you, it's such an interesting time, because so many of those boxes sound like some of typical teen stuff. But then when I think about my daughter at 15, yeah, it was all those things that you just said, and she absolutely needed extra support. So if, if you listen to that and you're thinking, that sounds like my kiddo, it's explore that. Explore financials for them.

Melanie McNalley 19:09
And it doesn't, you know, it doesn't hurt to err on the side of caution. And so if you're in you know, then go meet with someone, have them do an assessment and meet with your child and let them make that determination, just to kind of give you that peace of mind.

Casey O'Roarty 19:22
Yeah, yeah. And what about the screen stuff?

Melanie McNalley 19:25
So the screen stuff in a nutshell, you know, it's so funny because, you know, there's more and more data on research now that's being released on screen use and the impact that it's having on people of all ages. But we're seeing more and more research now coming out about screen use in young people, and the addiction piece is really hard for parents to tease out. You know, it early, what? Mid August, the surgeon or the end of August, the surgeon general just issued an advisory on the mental well being for. Parents, because parents now are like they're noticing that parents are under so much stress and anxiety that there's actually an advisory to help parents with their mental well being. And when I was reading through the advisory, one of the pieces they mentioned is that there's confusion around technology and screen use with their children. And so it is a really confusing topic where, how much is my child addicted, how much is normal for them to be on? And ultimately, what you want to look at is, has the screen replaced other activities that would be healthier for them? So we know that in person, social connections are invaluable for the developing brain. They're invaluable for adults too. I have to know, you know, like loneliness and social connection create early death. So it's just as important for adults, but for teens, it's really important for them to be getting in person connections. And so maybe you notice that their social media use is taking the place of in person connections, or they are, you know, on their screen so much that they don't want to do sports or clubs anymore. So if you notice that it's replacing healthier activities, then that's a sign that it is a problem and it could be heading in the direction of addiction. You know, I think some could argue that we're at this point, we're all addicted to devices, but really just looking at like, Okay, this is unhealthy, and we need to kind of get them off and get them more engaged in life. Yeah.

Casey O'Roarty 21:37
Yeah. God. Screens. Sorry, sorry, Generation Z, we really screwed you up. I mean, I don't think any of us look downstream. And, you know, I just posted something on Instagram about teens and screens. It was just this little meme, like, don't do this, don't do that. And then I added into it, and don't act like this is a teen problem. Like we all and you said that we are all struggling with navigating our screen use, and it's real, and I'm encouraged to hear it seems like there's a surge right now, at least in some schools, to ban I mean, hopefully they have good plans for that, but banning cell phone use during the school day. So we'll see what happens. I talk a lot about energetic responsibility and relationship, and I love that your book is all about fostering things like curiosity and passion and autonomy. And I don't know if it's you know, if it's us Gen Xers kind of pushing against the authoritarian parenting that we might have received, and so we've leaned a little bit, maybe towards permissiveness. But I feel like if our kid doesn't care as much as we do, we're in a conundrum, right? And so I wonder, too, what you notice in your work, as far as, like, that idea that for the teen out of consciousness, not necessarily like thinking these exact words, but like, I don't have to care about getting up in the morning, because you care so much about it that I know that you're gonna make sure I get up right or, you know, fill in the task that we're so discouraged by, but we're unwilling to Let them flail and struggle inside of it, we'll just take care of it for them so like we're holding that energetic responsibility. So I really encourage parents to hand that over to their teens. What do you see and what are your thoughts about that?

Melanie McNalley 23:34
So I completely agree with you, because there's a whole section in the book on grit, and right in that section, I talk about how your child needs to struggle in order to develop grit. And when I write it, I ask the parent, the reader, to reflect on what kind of feelings that sentence brought up for them, because a lot of parents have a really difficult time with seeing their child struggle, and it could be for the absolute best intentions, but if your child doesn't struggle, they don't get the opportunity to figure out challenges and to get through difficulties and to build resilience and to learn how capable they are and struggling, it isn't pretty, you know, it's gonna mean maybe an F on the report card, or a lower GPA, or not making the swim team. And in a parent's mind, sometimes that's like disastrous, like, Okay, we can't let them get an F, so we are gonna, you know, do everything we can, when, in reality, that might be exactly what your child needs. I've had a lot of young adults, you know, come to me, and you know, their parents bring them in, where a big issue is that that young adult has never had to struggle throughout their life, because the parent has stepped in repeatedly to save them and is. Continuing to do so. And so that young adult has never developed grit. They've never learned how capable and you know how they can dig deep to figure things out. And so as soon as they're struggling, they're just like, throw up their hand. Well, there's nothing I can do, because deep down inside, they know that their parent is going to save them yet again.

Casey O'Roarty 25:19
Yeah, and it's a dance, right? Because there's, this is yours, you know? And I think it's interesting. I talk about being fiercely committed and lovingly detached with our kiddos. And when people hear lovingly detached, sometimes there's an assumption of just like, Oh, you just want me to be like, okay, good luck. And now it's the stance of this is yours. This is your story to write. This is your journey to walk that will ultimately be yours to live through right, whatever consequences there are, and consequences are good and bad, and also saying, I'm here to build some scaffolding as well, like, scaffolding is okay, right? Supportive scaffolding is okay. And then, and I just was talking to a parent about this this morning, and then the work of dismantling the emotional attachment and investment that we then put on our kiddos to do it, whatever it is, right? A certain way, like, but I gave you the scaffolding, but I let go, and it still looks really messy. Like, how dare you do this to me?

Melanie McNalley 26:30
Right? And then it's about hard, yeah, and it's about the parents experience instead of it, yeah, individual, you know, in the book The New adolescence, she does such a great job of talking about that scaffolding and what it looks like with driving. You know, how we put all the scaffolding in place when teens are learning how to drive, you know, driving in parking lots and all the things that they have to do before they can safely drive on a highway. I love that analogy, because you can apply that scaffolding analogy to other things, of like, okay, what are the parameters? And then we start to move them away. And then again, they're going to make mistakes, and they might flounder, they might, you know, struggle, they might suffer, but we still have some of that scaffolding in place, so you're not like, you know, they're not going to die. You're making sure that they're still safe. And then you continue to remove things as they demonstrate that they can handle it, that they're getting more mature, that they're building up some strength.

Casey O'Roarty 27:27
Yeah, and talk a little bit about you have a section in the book that caught my eye too, which was the languaging around becoming rather than being. And I think it's such an important mindset, you know? I mean, we get a lot of practice, even when the kids are young, when they do, you know, they're able to move through something well. And it's like, okay, great. That challenge is over now. And then two days later, they're, you know, upset or flailing, or whatever. And it's like, Wait a second. I thought we already navigated this. I thought we were done with this. And then they become teenagers, and they start looking, you know, you start to see the young adult that they're growing into. And I think it's really easy to forget that they're still in the becoming,

Melanie McNalley 28:12
yes, and it really is a mindset issue, because what happens is, when we start to use the language of, you know, like, This is who you are, so that being language you know, like, if you're smart, then what happens is the teen, they don't want to do anything that doesn't support them being smart, and so that might mean that they're gonna, they won't sign up for the more challenging class, because maybe they know I'm not gonna know how to do that. That doesn't fit me being smart. So they're not going to take opportunities. They're not going to go outside their comfort zone. And it really is a limiting way of talking about things, whereas becoming if we're framing as like you're becoming smarter, then that opens the door to and it's just a simple little mindset tweak. It's nothing major, but like you're becoming smart now it's like, okay, I can try different things, because my identity isn't attached to it. It's not wrapped up in it. And so now art, because it's something I'm still becoming. Mm, hmm,

Casey O'Roarty 29:23
I love that too, for parents. So some language that I use is like, we're in a snapshot right now. You know, especially with parents whose kids are really moving through something that's hard to hold, is that same kind of mindset, but putting it on the parent right like this is a snapshot of right now, you don't know what the snapshot in five years is gonna look like, or even five months, by the way, right? And that adolescents are you know that becoming language, I think, is so important, because something that I really invite parents into is having faith and trusting. That our kids are developing the skills that they need, and that they are capable of developing the skills that they need, even when there's a lack of evidence, like when they're in a really tough place, and it feels like, Ah, you're telling me, I'll hear I don't have faith. How can I you say have faith and I don't have faith. And I think this languaging around, but they're becoming Right. Like every experience, every relationship, every moment, is really just they're just accruing ever more experience to make sense of the world around them and develop and to continue to develop. So I love that language. We're all humans, becoming right.

Melanie McNalley 30:39
Yes, for sure. Michelle Obama's book, it's a good one,

Casey O'Roarty 30:42
yes, yes, for sure, for sure. So I love thinking about those kids that are more easygoing. I had one that was like that, and another that was less than easygoing. So what are your tips for parents? You know, as they read your book, which is so useful as they read your book, and there's some great, really practical exercises for them to do with their kiddos. But if we're gonna slice that even thinner, and they've got a kiddo that's pretty discouraged, or maybe a dynamic that is, you know, been more critical than has been helpful. And we all love our kids, and we're all doing the best that we can with the tools we have. What are some tips that you have to invite our kids into these conversations around that are going to support them in their developing motivation.

Melanie McNalley 31:34
So I encourage parents to you know, first of all, like the communication or the relationship is the issue, and that's kind of what's holding back or preventing, you know, them, from wanting to be involved in things start with working on those things, like working on building communication, and you can do that through. This is my go to recommendation, just an empty notebook. You write back and forth to each other each day. It starts off, usually really benign, but then over time, you start to share more and more, and that's a great way to start opening those doors to communication with your teen. And I do have a free communication journal too on my website, awesome. Yeah, that people can download. You can use a blank notebook. You don't need anything fancy. That's a good way to just kind of break open that communication door, but getting at, like, the root cause of what's causing them to not want to be involved, and trying to build there. But then also, like, let's say you're reading it, and they're not super into it, you can just share what you're learning and don't make it about them, so it doesn't feel like a personal attack. And instead, you know, apply it to your own life, you know. And I do that a lot in the book, where I ask parents to reflect, you know, like, Yeah, I'm asking you to do this for your teen. But also like, Have you done this for yourself? So to share that with the teen, you know what it is that you're learning about yourself and how you're applying things, and so you're kind of modeling that, you know, and it's non judgmental. You're not shaming them or anything like that, and then see if they would be interested in doing any of the exercises or activities, either on their own or if they want to do it together. But again, you're not criticizing them for what their responses are, but you're just kind of starting with, like, these little baby steps and building on it. You're not going in gung ho of like, Okay, we're gonna sit down and we're gonna go through this book together and we're gonna do all the exercises, because that might be really overwhelming and intense. Yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 33:34
so if you're like, me, just hold back. I get very excited, Melanie. And I'm like, I got an idea, My poor husband, he's like, whoa. You know, I always feel like it's like that experience of having something on the tip of our tongue, right? Like nurturing a dynamic where our teens get that this isn't about me, wanting you to develop motivation. This is for you. Why does it feel so hard to land that?

Melanie McNalley 34:05
You know, because I think sometimes it might feel like there's an underlying implication that they need to be fixed, or that there's something wrong. And another way to frame it that could be helpful is to think of it as like I want to learn how the brain works and how to really maximize my brain's potential, your brain's potential. Like, let's do that, you know, because there's a lot of ways where we're all misusing our brains, you know, like, trying to remember your grocery list instead of writing it down. That's not a good use of your brain power. Like, first of all, you're not going to be able to remember it all. And secondly, like, that's not really what our brain is designed for. So let's learn some things that are going to help us really maximize our potential. And then that way, it feels like I'm not implying that there's anything wrong with you or that you're flawed. It's more of you. Like, let's just get the most out of what we have.

Casey O'Roarty 35:02
Yeah, would you be willing to share one of the exercises from the book that's one of your faves that parents could put into practice?

Melanie McNalley 35:10
Actually, my ultimate favorite, and I do this with both my adult clients and my teen clients. But it's probably a little too much to do here, because it's really about helping people break down goals and figuring out, like, what your overall purpose is. And I do have an exercise in the book on figuring out your overall purpose, but then breaking that down into what would that look like five years from now? What does that look like a year from now? What does that look like? You know, the next three months,

Casey O'Roarty 35:41
is that the exercise that the story that goes along with it is the boy that starts to play basketball and decides they want to play in college, yeah, yeah. That's a great story to go along with that as well. Yeah. I

Melanie McNalley 35:54
find that like that exercise of like the goal breakdown. The reason why I love that one is because people always think goal setting is really simple and easy, and I don't need to do it, because I know in my head what it is I want. So there's no point in getting it out on paper. But the reality is, when we map it out, there's a lot more steps than we realize, and also a lot of the steps, like, when you really break it down, it turns into a daily to do list, you know, because that's what I have you do in the book. Is you're going from your big goal, your purpose, and breaking it all the way down to what it looks like on a daily basis, which is essentially your to do list. But when we do it right, we realize, okay, my to do list is actually connected to my overall purpose. Yeah. So now this phone call I have to make, or this little bit of research I have to do on the internet, which sucks, and it's really boring, it's actually connected to my whole purpose and what I want out of life. And so now it feels much more useful, and I feel a little bit more excited to do it. And so a lot of people want to skip this, but it really is, like the most important thing to do

Casey O'Roarty 37:05
well. And as I sit here and listen to you, I'm like, Oh yeah, I got a couple things that would be useful in moving through that process with so thank you. I appreciate it, and I appreciate you and your work in the world. Can you talk a little bit? I know you've got the book, take a few minutes and talk about what you offer, what people can get on your website. So

Melanie McNalley 37:26
I'm a regular contributor on psychology today, so I do a lot of writing there, and you can read all my articles, and then the two books that I have. So I've got my writing, and then I have my one on one coaching that I do.

Casey O'Roarty 37:38
The lovely thing about coaching is location doesn't matter, right? So if somebody's listening, they don't have to worry about being near you to work with you. Okay?

Melanie McNalley 37:47
No, because no one's near me, because I live in the middle of a forest or far away from everyone, so unless you're there, you're not going to be able to meet so virtual brain coaching and I work with people yeah all over the US and Canada, helping people just really understand how their brain works and how to maximize their potential and figuring out what they want out of life and how to get there. And then I also do speaking. So I go and talk and that I either do virtually or in person, and that's either around, you know, emotional intelligence in teens, or helping with motivation in teens, and then I do some around productivity in adults as well. Awesome.

Casey O'Roarty 38:32
Well, we will make sure that all the links to all of your things, mostly to your website, are available in the show notes before I ask my last question, is there anything else you want to mention to listeners just about this topic of motivation? I know we didn't dig super deep, but I want everybody to read your book. And what I appreciate about your book is it's not 600 pages long, and it's practical, like I could hear your voice when I read it. You know, talk about goals, right? My goal is to finish this book. It's much higher likelihood that I'm going to do that, because it's, you know, to the point and not filled with so much research that I'm putting it down and not finishing it. So thank you for that. But is there anything else you want to leave listeners with before we wrap?

Melanie McNalley 39:16
You know, when it comes to understanding motivation in your teen, to really think that there's three components to it, whether it's a drive their grit or their goals, and so figuring out which area they're struggling in, and then helping them build in that area. And once parents understand that about motivation when it comes to their teen who really isn't engaged in life. It makes a huge, huge difference in turning things around for them, beautiful. Thank

Casey O'Roarty 39:46
you. And what does joyful courage mean to you today?

Melanie McNalley 39:49
You know, I really think it's the bravery of You, know, doing hard things with a smile on your face and being able to face challenge. Changes, no matter how difficult they are, with an attitude or perspective of either, you know, some gratitude or a little playfulness or fun.

Casey O'Roarty 40:12
Thank you for hanging out with me today. Melanie, this is great.

Melanie McNalley 40:15
Thank you for having me. You

Casey O'Roarty 40:20
man, thank you so much for listening in today. Thank you to my sproutable partners, as well as Chris Mann and the team at pod shaper for all the support with getting this show out there and making it sound good. Check out our offers for parents with kids of all ages, and sign up for our newsletter to stay [email protected] tune back in later this week for our Thursday show, and I'll be back with another interview next Monday.

40:49
Peace, you.

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