Eps 328: Kirsten Cobabe Teaches Us How to Deepen Our Relationships With Teens

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Transcription

Kirsten Cobabe. 0:00
Who's this person and what are they here to teach me? I know I had some gifts to share with my parents. I don't know if we've gotten there yet, but we all have that adult US has that for our parents. Our teenagers have that for us. And so, yeah, that's where that listening connection comes in. And it's like, here's who this child is. You can figure out what this person needs together sometimes. Yeah, it's a collaboration. It's a partnership.

Casey O'Roarty 0:27
Hey, listeners, hello. Hi friends. Welcome to joyful courage, a conscious parenting podcast where we tease apart the challenges and nuances of parenting through adolescence, hopefully entertaining you along the way, I am your host. Casey overrti, I am a positive discipline lead trainer, parent coach and the adolescent lead at sproutable, which is a company that represents not only the growth of children, but also the journey and evolution that we all get to go on as parents. I am walking the path right next to you as I navigate the teen parenting with my own two kids, joyful courage is all about grit. You've heard me say this before. Grit is growth on the parenting journey, relationships that provide a sense of connection and meaning and influential tools that support everyone in being their best selves. Thank you for being here. We are over 1 million downloads and 300 plus episodes strong, and you've taken us to the top 1% of podcasts worldwide. It's a big deal. I appreciate you. I know you're gonna enjoy the interview today, because I had the best time being in conversation with the guest you're about to meet. So be sure to reach out after you listen and let me know what your takeaways are and how much you enjoyed the show. All right, see you later.

Hey, listeners, I am so excited to introduce you to my guest today, Kirsten Kobe. But Kirsten has worked with families for over 20 years supporting parents and young people to navigate the waves of adolescents by becoming authentically curious and truly present. During her time as a social worker, she was coined the teen whisperer, her ability to meet young people where they are and invite parents into this world offers a new space for connection, a modern lens of radical acceptance, Kirsten guides families into an empowered, joyful and connected life during some of the most transformative years. She has coached countless parents and caregivers, helping them to recalibrate and strengthen their relationship with their teens. She supports families in fostering rapport, cultivating conscious connections, transforming obstacles and restoring harmony in the home, while recognizing the unique struggles of this generation, Kirsten also sees the need to nourish the creative force behind each person she is fortunate to encounter. As we raise our consciousness, we can raise the next generation. I found Kirsten on Instagram, and now I'm in full friend stalking mode. Hi, Kirsten, welcome to the podcast.

Kirsten Cobabe. 3:07
Thank you so much. I love it. Thank you. Wonderful introduction.

Casey O'Roarty 3:12
Yes, well, the cat's out of the bag. I'm a total huge fan. Before I hit record, I was saying, not only do I love all the content you put out which is completely spot on and totally aligned with what I believe about parenting and teens and families, but it's so visually appealing, like I just love your vibe. I love your style. It's and everybody who's listening right now, just hit pause really quick and go over to Instagram and follow Kirsten Kobe because you will be inspired every single day. So go do that and then come back. Oh, thank

Kirsten Cobabe. 3:45
you. I'm so glad that it resonates so deeply with you. It feels so good to hear that. Yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 3:51
well, you know, like, sometimes you meet kindred spirits, and it's like, oh yeah, we should be friends. Yes, you might not have realized that, but that was the experience I was having, this is happening. It's happening. Girl, it's happening.

Kirsten Cobabe. 4:03
I love the internet for these reasons. It's incredible. Me too.

Casey O'Roarty 4:07
Me too. So can you just start off by telling us what drew you to this work, and how did you end up the teen whisperer? What was the course of events?

Kirsten Cobabe. 4:17
You know, since I was really little, I've had sort of my approach since I was even a child, when I read back to some of this, the kindergarten words from my teachers, it's very similar to the work I'm doing now, which is funny. And as a teenager, that's when I actually started working with teenagers as a mentor. I was in a mentoring adolescence class, and I worked with teens and their parents. They were younger teens, but it really opened the door to you know what now, 20 years later, is just my whole life. And so I ended up going to school for social work and working as a therapist. I'm not anymore, but during that time, the people that were coming to me were teenagers like 90% and their parents, of course, and what really spoke to me was that they. Want to keep coming back. And so often it's really hard to get young people to, you know, get in the car and go to an office and talk to a stranger. And so I was on to something. And am I even though I was in an office, and it was that traditional approach, I kept my ways that have been with me since the very beginning of this is a person, whatever they need, is what we do, however they come in today is perfect, and meet people right where they're at. So that was a little bit of the course of events.

Casey O'Roarty 5:30
Yeah, I love that. And I'm actually, I've been looking into mental health counseling programs myself, because I work primarily with parents of teenagers, and I just want to expand my understanding. And most of the parents that come to me their teens are right on that edge of, you know, okay, and or needing some outside help. And so I want to expand what I understand about teen brain development and mental health. And every time I talk to, well, not every time, but often, I'll talk to therapists, and they talk about how like being ready to have your heart broken working with teens that it's really challenging, and so I'm totally encouraged to hear you and your experience, because I don't think it has to be so hard to connect with teenagers.

Kirsten Cobabe. 6:17
I find it the opposite of heartbreaking. I find it so heart opening and yeah, without attachment, though. You know it doesn't have to be that way. It's just, I really do believe it's our perspective, and we can not take anything personally and remember that this is about them. They may not come back for a couple months, but if you have a great, even five minute conversation, that can be enough for someone to circle around, maybe one day or not. But remember, oh, that nice adult that was a kind adult that saw me as a human and didn't make me talk to them for an hour, right?

Casey O'Roarty 6:50
Didn't judge me or criticize me. I think we're really good at that. Yeah,

Kirsten Cobabe. 6:54
that's huge. Actually being an adult in a young person's life, that's not like, well, your mom is right. You should probably XYZ. I don't do that, and I let the parents that I work with, and they're so amazing because they're on board. Like, I'm going to align with them when they're frustrated with you, it's okay for them to feel that way. I'm going to join them in that, because exploring those frustrations is where there's hidden gems, and where they're going to learn to feel their feelings and feel what it likes to be supported in those tough feelings. And so what can come out of that is really beautiful, but that's something that the parents I work with sometimes or need to be okay with, and I do it in a way that's really gentle and invites them into it. And it's not about triangulation, it's not about singling out a parent. It's just I've got to join them so that then we can get to that together phase, so that we can look at the other lenses. If I don't join them in their lens, we'll never get to the other lenses that really

Casey O'Roarty 7:46
speaks into something that we talk about. So I'm a positive discipline trainer, and one of the pillars that we talk about with parents is the power of perception. And what I'm hearing you say like it's going through my positive discipline filter and all perspectives are valid. Oh, yes. And so I'm really hearing you say you get to be that person who tells that teen who may be teachers and parents and coaches and all the grown ups in their life are like, well, actually, this is the way the world works. And you're there saying, I see your perspective and it's valid. It's valid. So I love that absolutely we're gonna talk about connecting with the teens we have. This is a theme. I mean, connection, my work is super relationship centered, and so this is a theme that comes up in every show, regardless of the topic. We talk about connection and in my coaching and in my groups, because it's everything, right? I like to say that the most powerful tool we have for influencing behavior is the relationship that we're nurturing with our kids. Yes, absolutely me too. That's my profound statement. Kirsten, everyone has like half a million profound statements, but I got that one,

Kirsten Cobabe. 9:01
and I agree, it's what I see, but I see over and over again, right?

Casey O'Roarty 9:13
And depending on where our kids are at, it can feel really challenging to connect with them in a real and authentic way. And when I say, depending on where our kids are at, like, there's so many things that go into that, right? There's temperament, because some kids are open and some kids are wired more closed, and connection's gonna look different. Some kids are, you know, in the struggle and in the pain of adolescence and whatever's going on with their life. And so they're guarded, you know some kids are not so guarded and are dying for someone to be connected with them. So when you support parents around connecting with their teens, what does that look like?

Kirsten Cobabe. 9:50
Yeah, I can speak to that and really align with what you just said, which is it varies so greatly because some teenagers are talkers, some are. Not talkers. Some children, you know, you can bond over a game of basketball. Some it's playing a video game. Some it's taking a walk. Some it's having like, a special night out or going to a concert or a dinner. And we can also remember that not only is it not always verbal, it's not always lengthy, sometimes these moments of connection can be very tiny in terms of time, short length, and sometimes it's even what we don't say that can create more connection. You know, your kid comes home and you know they don't like the question, how was your day? Did you do your homework? Or something like that? Not doing that can start to open some doors. So sometimes it's not just what we do, but also what we don't do. And so really knowing who our child is, even though that might change from day to day or month to month as they're growing and evolving, really knowing who they are, what they're into, is where we're going to be able to find that way in. And I think the other piece of this is that, especially as your teenagers getting older, there will be pull back and pull away, and having awareness that that's developmentally appropriate is helps parents to remember it's not personal. They're not always with their friends because they hate you. They're always with their friends because they need community that gets them. They're learning from each other, they're having fun. Is the joy of a lot of teenagers lives. You know, some teens have one or two friends. Some have large groups. There's no one way, but that that time with their friends and their peers or their projects are really important.

Casey O'Roarty 11:35
I think we get attached to how it looks pretty easily, right? Yeah, yeah. I was working with someone yesterday, and she was talking about her older teen son, and it was the same similar conversation. And she was talking about how, you know, for the first half of his life, first two thirds of his life, like she was the go to parent, and now Dad is the go to parent, and navigating that and how that feels, and that feeling of being left out. And I just reminded her, you know, the thing that our kids need the most is one adult that they can have a healthy connection with, and the fact that he's got that with dad, and that she's not completely left behind, like, that's a really good thing. And, you know, supporting her, and now you get to navigate all that inner conversation that you're having about this dynamic, which is just story, right? It's not even real. It's just story.

Kirsten Cobabe. 12:31
Is the brain making it meaning out of it? Yes? Maybe like, Oh, I'm no longer needed or loved, or all of these things. And it's Yeah. Often what our brain is chattering about is, I get Yeah, it's stories trying to make meaning and trying to make sense when it's really not super helpful a lot of the time, yeah, yeah. And it is an inner process, and that's what we do get to hold space for, and that's what I love holding space for too. Is those moments for parent when parents are doing their re parenting, of maybe what was hard for them when they were little. Or what raising this human is bringing up and reminding them of, and it brings that into consciousness or into the light for us to look at and love, because it's okay to feel that way. It's okay that she's having these feelings. And gosh, if we can have someone with us in our corner, supporting us, then that pain is not as big, or maybe it's still big, but we have someone holding our hand and walking beside us as we feel it, yeah? So we get to do that, yeah, for parents and for teenagers, that's my hope for everyone in the world, that we get that at least sometimes,

Casey O'Roarty 13:31
yeah, well, and I mean, there's nothing like the parenting journey. I say the parenting journey is like the personal growth and development workshop that goes on forever that you didn't realize you signed up for. You know, in my experience, I thought, early on, I did so much work around some conditioning and things that I didn't realize lived inside my body like I thought, I'm not gonna do that. And then I have my kids, and I'm like, oh shit, I'm doing that. So lots of work then. And then I thought, Okay, I've done my work. Now I'm in the clear we're moving into the teen world. Probably won't be that hard for me, because I teach parents. And then, like, a freight train, Kirsten teen years showed up and knocked me right over. And it was like, Oh, there's more layers here. And like, there's, yeah, there's no landing place. Of like, okay, and now I've dealt with all my issues, and I can just be a totally stable, non reactive human for the rest of my life, like no life.

Kirsten Cobabe. 14:30
It's such a brave work. It is. It's that class, it's that lifelong course that's teaching everything, showing us everything about ourselves. Yeah, this is what I see with the parents and with there's no end point, it's just the next layer. And I think it's incredibly brave.

Casey O'Roarty 14:48
I think it's Yeah, well, and we have a choice, right? It's grow and discover or resist and be freaking miserable and disconnect. From our people. So that's right, everyone, you have a choice.

Kirsten Cobabe. 15:03
It is a choice. I've talked about that before. It's like, well, yes, this might be difficult, and you want your team to XYZ, but the way you're handling it will end up leading to this. So really, yeah, you get to choose. Do you want to be connected? Do you want to be disconnected? You want to have a relationship or not? Because it's not a given to have a relationship with with your

Casey O'Roarty 15:21
child, yeah, well, and I love that I've been trying to kind of articulate this thing, right? And I bet you can help me with this and try. Our teens have a challenge, right? Maybe it's they're just not feeling school, right? I wouldn't even say they're struggling, because we're struggling. They're like, Fuck it, right? And so the fear shows up, right of, what if? What if? What if? What if? What if? You know, dead in a ditch. We always end up dead in a ditch. And so then from that place, like parents, thinking, I have to do something about this. I have to motivate them. I have to create a situation where they have to care. Oh, God bless our hearts, right? They have to care. And then so we get all controlling, maybe some threats. We hold things over them, carrot, stick, situation. Get to the other side and they do or don't graduate. You know, they have a 2.0 a 3.0 whatever, but also zero desire for relationship with us, because we've been psychotic about this whole school thing versus Hey, I'm here for you. This is your journey. I can, you know, support you as you want to be supported. I'm curious about what's happening for you. And then in the end they graduate, they don't graduate. They have a 2.0 a 3.0 blah, blah, blah, blah, blah ends up, however it ends up, and we have a healthy, connected relationship with them, exactly. It's so hard, though, to get parents to understand, like to see that right. And I know I'm in it too, like we have really big challenges at our house, and the fear can really get in the way. Oh

Kirsten Cobabe. 17:05
my gosh. And it can override all the best intentions of surrender and love and unconditional support. It can really override it's strong. Let's see. I have

Casey O'Roarty 17:17
surrendered tattooed to my wrist. Thank you, daughter of mine,

Kirsten Cobabe. 17:23
children, because they're such sacred mirrors, do get to remind us and help us to remember, yeah, and we're met, even if we want to control children more than anything else, and that's our biggest goal in these moments, it's not possible. And so it's like, okay, we can either work towards an expended energy in something that's not even going to happen, at least not in a balanced way. As you said, you know it won't happen without risking the relationship. Or yeah, we can join them, even if they are flunking high school might not graduate. I often walk down the worst case scenario when people feel comfortable and are open enough to do that, where it's like, okay, and then what, and then what, and then what. And so parents often do get to that place of dead in a ditch, but sometimes it even ends at they fail High School and it's like, okay, then what. And they're like, Well, I guess maybe they get their GED, and I'm like, okay, then what? You keep going. And then they often get to a place where it's like, well, I guess it's okay. I guess things are okay. Maybe they have to live here for a year, maybe they travel abroad for a year, maybe they're lost for five years. But then they really know what they want to do, and then they get creative. That fear becomes this creativity and the remembering of, oh, actually, this is not the most important thing, and it's out of my control, and it's actually going to be okay, even if my worst case scenario fear comes true,

Casey O'Roarty 18:44
that's a fun process, well. And I mean, you start to talk to people like adults about their teenage experience, and you realize like, oh, there are a lot of people who had really intense, crazy adolescent experiences, and they are fine,

Kirsten Cobabe. 18:57
yeah, I'm one of those people. Great events. Tell

Casey O'Roarty 19:02
us your story. How messed up were you as an adolescent? Kirsten,

Kirsten Cobabe. 19:06
gosh, I was the most anxious child. I grew up on a farm. I had so much freedom. It was like too much freedom. I mean, I'm so grateful for it. In many ways. I was just seeped in nature and magical experiences. And then, boom, my parents got divorced, my whole world changed. I mean, again, I don't think I'd change anything about it now, but in that time, it was so difficult. I didn't know what was going on. No one asked me how I was doing. Then I'm thrown into school, which in some ways was great, because there was structure, and I had these teachers that were really curious about me, and it felt great. But then I got trapped in the school thing, and I was in school college for seven years. I mean, it was just Whoa. But during those little years before college, so anxious I wanted to feel connected and loved and seen, ended up in an abusive relationship. It took all of my might to get out of that. I remember my dad. This was one of the things I love. I was reflecting on recently. He. Used to play Dr Laura Schlesinger on the radio to, like, put little seeds of hope and strength and courage in me. It was so amazing that he did that. Because I don't know if a lecture would have done anything. I think I would have preferred some of what we're talking about. As I look back, parents can check in in a way that's really supportive, and in a way that's like, what's going on for you? Can I do something different? You know, instead of, Hey, you can't, you know, be this way or so you should, or do this you should exactly. And there would have been some approaches, which I work with parents to kind of see and find these that would have helped me, but at least I had little tiny bits and sprinkles that helped. And so it kind of speaks to that one amazing person, or that really kind moment, or when people do take the time to listen and help teenagers find their inner guidance, because that's what really helps us get through the hard stuff, is when we trust our gut and listen to ourselves and know we've got people behind us and have our back and so Absolutely teenagers can be really horrible and really hard, and when we're not alone in those struggling moments, or when we feel like we have support, it's way more likely we're going to make it through successfully. And then we can talk about success. It's like, what is success? Is that graduating high school? Is it being happy? Is it it's so different for everybody? Is it being healthy? Is it being curious? Is it being home free? Is it being debt free? Why is it and so, yeah, getting out of our linear lens of it should be this way, and there's this one way. Who's this person? In order, they here to teach me. I know I had some gifts to share with my parents. I don't know if we've gotten there yet, but we all have that adult US has that for our parents. Our teenagers have that for us. And so, yeah, that's where that listening connection comes in. And it's like, here's who this child is. You can figure out what this person needs together. Sometimes, yeah, it's a collaboration, it's partnership. It's totally

Casey O'Roarty 21:56
a collaboration. You are the co pilot. You are no longer flying the plane. You are a co pilot, and I love as I listen to you, it's I'm just like, yes, yes, yes. I'm so glad so many people are going to hear this conversation, because every single piece of it, even that abusive relationship, that toxic relationship that you were in, grew you like grew experience muscles inside of you, so that you could then grow in your discernment around how you navigate the world. Like, when I'm at my best as a parent, I'm remembering that like, okay, yes, this feels like another breakdown, and it's scary, but she's in a different place, and my daughter writes my show notes. Kirsten, your dad plays Dr Laura Rowan listens to my podcast, and I'm always aware that she's listening. So yes, and she has told me that she's taken some nuggets away that, you know, she's just kind of stowing away that are really useful for her. I so appreciate that. Are you finding with the kids that you're working with right now? And I say kids, but really like baby adults, that 18 to 25 year old period of time. Are you seeing a lot of kids that are having a hard time making that transition into adulthood, or even holding the vision of being on their own?

Kirsten Cobabe. 23:13
Sure. Yeah, I think we're in an interesting moment in the world, and we've been kind of doing it backwards and upside down for so long. You know, even if we look at the school piece, it's like young people are getting up way too early, they're sitting down for way too long. Their homework is way too much. It's outdated information. And I'm speaking really generally. I know not all schools are like this, and the teachers are amazing and doing their best. And it's such

Casey O'Roarty 23:36
a hard it's a systemic situation. It's a systemic situation,

Kirsten Cobabe. 23:39
and it's really hard. I've worked in schools before. You know, way back when I was a therapist, it was hard to watch because everyone's having a hard time, or at least a lot of people, to some degree. And so we've been doing it kind of funny for a while. I mean, school was created in the Civil War era. That was a long time ago. A lot has changed. We know so much more now, and also we know that the brain isn't fully developed the frontal lobe until 26 ish around there. And so, yes, they're young people becoming adults. But also, it doesn't just happen, boom, one day it's a lot of adults are still becoming adults. A lot of us people. I mean, it's just such a lifelong journey. So yeah, how do we transition? How do we make enough money for rent? How do we move out? How do we decide which path is ours? And it's really tricky, and a lot of young people have kind of missed a lot over the last couple of years, really important social experiences and moments and growth opportunities, and so being really patient with each other as we navigate this. I really love when families are flexible with not just okay, you're out of the house now, good luck with life, but when it's more seeing where someone's at, what kind of support they might need, being open to the fact it might take a little bit longer, it might not be a straight line, it might be a journey. Being open to that as a possibility, I think, at least relieves some pressure and stress, because. Young people just aren't ready to make a big decision. And those big decisions can be, they can be hard to come back from sometimes. And so, yeah, those are just some thoughts about kind of where we found ourselves. And fortunately, I think now, after these two years where we're a little more open, there's different kinds of schools now people are a little more comfortable with the idea that not working out how they thought it might. And that's hard for young people too. Some young people thought, hey, my life's gonna go this way, and then it doesn't always right.

Casey O'Roarty 25:30
They have to stay home and not leave the house and wear a mask. And, yeah, yeah, I appreciate that. And I think there's also something around you know, I try to make sure my listeners have heard me say this, like we can't un devalue the fact that this global pandemic situation is real, like we have got to adjust our expectations. And yeah, there are kids whose easy going factor is through the roof, and they're rolling with it, and they're doing all the things. And it looks, quote, normal from the outside looking in, by the way, everyone come on, what we see on social media is not real. But then there's everybody else you know, and I have two kids, and one is more easygoing than the other, and he's kind of rolling with it. But there's definitely places where we talk about what's disappointing and what's hard, and then another one who's kind of come a little bit to a standstill in a lot of ways. And I get to really trust you know every time you know. And we talked about this, she was saying, and Rowan gives me permission to talk about this stuff on the podcast, so but just talking about, yeah, thank you, Rowan. Everybody thinks Rowan all the time, talking about, like, the pressure of having to decide what you're gonna do, and even reminding her, Listen, I was a teacher, too. I was a teacher, you know, I did. Got my bachelor degree. I got my post baccalaureate teaching certificate. I went to graduate school and got my master's in education. I was a teacher for five years, and then I was like, Oh, I'm having babies. I live in the middle of nowhere. There's no childcare. I kind of just want to be home with my babies. Left the classroom, never to go back, right? And started working with parents. And now I'm two years away from 50, and I'm like, I think I want to go to graduate school and learn about all this mental health stuff, and so trying to be a model and remind her like it's not the 1950s where, No, you go to work and that's what you do until the end of time you get to try things on and play around with things and quit if it's not a fit, like nobody owns you, no, but That black and white thinking is, I know that's a piece of the adolescent brain development, and I know that some kids are really trapped inside of it. What are some things? Because I know parents are in conversations with their kids too, and their kids are very much like, this is how it is, and in that black and white thinking place, because we want to validate their you know, I'm always like, How can I validate this? How can I be with her in this? And also, how can I stand next to her and kind of pivot her towards another equally valid possibility without being like, get a hold of yourself in my body. I'm like, Oh my God, I want to violently shaky right now? Yeah,

Kirsten Cobabe. 28:21
yeah. Of course, that black and white thinking can trap any of us, and it is sometimes common in that age and stage, because it's like, this is me and this isn't me, and this is the world, and I don't like this, and I love this. And so I do find that, at least for me, and it's a little different, because I'm not a parent, and so I think that that, I mean, not the parents can do this too. It just, I think takes more effort, because you do have to kind of take off the parenting hat and be like, okay, recenter, I think the more we lean into their lens, depending on the kid, I will say there's some kids where you can use humor, but it's really not everyone. It's a very specific type of person. You can work with that. So I don't want to, I've said this before. I'm like, I don't want to promote that. It can come out of sarcasm. There's very unique, and it's all about if you have that relationship right, to be able to use humor. But even then, you've got to do the validation work first and join them in their world and ask more questions about it. So whatever this thing is, it has to be this way, or it is this way. Oh, what do you mean? Oh, okay, tell me more. What does it look like? Or, Oh, I hadn't thought about that. And then you just keep going into that world and kind of looking around and sifting through and asking questions. And I found that that's once someone doesn't feel like they have to convince someone else of this truth that's so true for them, then you can get to a place, maybe not in that conversation or that day, where you're then, like, you know, I was wondering, what do you think about this? And asking in a wonder way about their thoughts on something after you've done deep validation work and entered their world can be a really amazing way to learn more. And also, if someone's really believing something, not a whole lot we can do to get them out of that anyway. So we might as well do. In that world, understand that world, and then the Wonder conversation eventually often leads to some more exploration, and hopefully we all continue to evolve and kind of open our eyes to new perspectives and lenses. And I mean, I love what you said too about you know that quit if it's not a fit, and you might be going back to school. I know for me that going to grad school was when I really saw why I treated my little sister the way I did as a young person, that I was hurting, and why I was in that relationship that wasn't balanced or healthy, because I wanted to feel connected and seen. And so that's another piece, just to kind of plant the seed for people that why connection is so important. It is what we all want, and if someone doesn't have it, they will look for it and find it. And so when we can offer that really beautiful, safe space to land with young people, then they already have it. Then they'll already have it, and they

Casey O'Roarty 30:55
know what it looks like like. They know what a healthy, connected relationship looks like, yes,

Kirsten Cobabe. 31:00
yeah, I can thank my teachers for that. It wasn't an hour every day or anything, but the moments that I had with these teachers were profound to me. I felt like a human and an equal, and that we don't have to say that to someone. We can treat people like that, and oh my gosh, young people deserve that so very much we all do, and certainly this age group, because it's so misunderstood,

Casey O'Roarty 31:22
oh yeah, and it's like a joke, you know, like all the memes and the jokes and the I mean, no wonder they're like, adults suck, right?

Well, and what I love about what you were just talking about in entering their worlds and being really curious, and I want listeners to understand because I'm making an assumption, and you can let me know if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure I'm not wrong. This is not a technique. It's not like do this to get them to do what you want. It's about like humans seeing humans, and what happens for us when we feel seen, and what opens up and what's possible. So it's just very respectful what you're saying. And I love that, and often I also notice that parents don't always realize that they have a part in the dynamic that they're experiencing with their teen, right? Like, we really want to say, Well, my teen's disrespectful, or my teen never listens, or my teen doesn't help out around the house. So there's a bit of soul searching and vulnerability when we say, like, Hey, start to pay attention. Or when I say, you know, I want you to really pay attention to your side of the dynamic and see what you notice. I mean, is that something that you I'm sure that's something that you talk about with parents too. Absolutely you

Kirsten Cobabe. 32:54
were right, by the way. I think at least from islands before and then, yeah, friends, we're

Casey O'Roarty 33:00
gonna be taking vacations together soon. Girl, I'm so excited.

Kirsten Cobabe. 33:04
I can't wait. I can't wait. Yeah, I would say the same. And with regard to the parents and their work, I connect in the same way I do with young people, where it's deep validation for their perspective and lens first, and building that rapport with that part of them and that truth for them, and then that wonder conversation. So it's very rare that I can just dive right in and kind of hold up a firm mirror. But then again, sometimes that works. There are some people that are ready for that, and their personality is more like combative, and you can meet them in that, but usually, especially with the moms that I work with and a lot of the dads too, it's about, yeah, you're scared. This is scary, and this is hard, and you're having to let go of little them and meet the new them who's going to leave the house in two years. And you're scared. And so even just starting to name some of these things and identify them and that that's okay, and that that's natural, and then we can go and, you know, for them, I wonder if it's like this, and kind of tease out those little bits once that foundation and validation is there, just like I would with anyone else. And it's beautiful to see some of the connections that happen, then also the realizations that this is almost like a psychedelic experience, because it's like, if you're this type a person, your kid is like, not that way. Okay. There's a lot of magic in that, and sometimes even the behavioral things, I think we can see. I mean, I should, like, quote, behavioral, because I just always think it's a natural response to something that's painful or hard.

Casey O'Roarty 34:31
I love that, yeah, it's

Kirsten Cobabe. 34:33
calling in. Like, I really believe that teenagers, children in general, want to see their authentic parent. If we're pretending we've got it all together, and we're perfect, and we know how to do things, and we've got the world figured out. They're going to call us out on it, and maybe with words, maybe with behavior, but they want to, it's not to hurt us, is to remind us that we've got to get real here, like, let's have a real dynamic. I want to feel real you. I want to know real you. And so I think that, yeah, well, I. Wonder

Casey O'Roarty 35:00
too, like I'm just sitting here thinking to myself, well, yeah, I mean, if we're not our authentic, vulnerable selves with our kids, how is the space safe for them to step in and be authentic and vulnerable and real with

Kirsten Cobabe. 35:13
us exactly, exactly, and that's where looking elsewhere for that experience comes in their friends or, you know, hopefully other safe adults are right. They're looking for for that this. They need to feel that. We all need to feel that. And for so many years now, we have been stuffing things and suppressing things and not being ourselves, and it's like the jig is up or something, because it's just not working. Yeah, I don't know if it ever did, but it's definitely not working. Yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 35:40
Gen X, we got to get our shit together, because our Gen Z is like, Oh no, there will not be this BS for me, and I'm calling you out, and it's so I love it, because I'm like, What personal growth workshop? Like, Sign me up. I'm into it, right? And, yeah, you know. And I'm wired for that. So I'm really grateful. And not everybody is, and it could be this new territory. And you know, I know that when I feel strained between myself and one of my kids, I have a 16 year old and a 19 year old, and when things feel like like, if I'm annoyed or irritated, or I'm feeling like, Why are you treating me like this? Or any of that stuff shows up, there's often something for me to clean up, right? I can definitely. I've trained myself long enough to think, Hmm, how have I contributed to this? What like, big picture, lifting up and out and recognizing that the way that I'm showing up has kind of shaken up foundation and things with them, and so again, it's a vulnerability piece to say, Wow, I have been really demanding and controlling lately, and I just want to acknowledge that and ask you if you've noticed, the answer is always yes, Yeah, but it's, you know, but vulnerability is so powerful as parents. And I know some people, I haven't really heard this lately, but I remember when I first started working with parents, having people in my classes say I was raised that the adults don't apologize, and that just made me so sad, because we have so much to apologize for all the time,

Kirsten Cobabe. 37:20
because we're humans, because we're humans, yeah, yeah.

Casey O'Roarty 37:23
How do you work with parents around like when it's been identified that you know they're part of the dynamic has made it hard. What are some steps that you invite parents into to begin to mend relationships so that they can come to a new place with their teen? Yeah,

Kirsten Cobabe. 37:39
sometimes it's imagining what it would have been like for a little less if our parents had done that. Because often the folks have that perspective. It's because that's what they didn't get, that's what they learned, and that pattern is still here. And so sometimes it's imagining that that it's an interesting conversation. I've had some with parents that are very rigid about this, and they're usually not the people I work with or work with for very long, because it's not a great match. I mean, I'm down to go slowly along the way, but sometimes it's too much, or my approach is too different, and they're not ready yet. And some people are just not ready yet. It can be really scary, because what can happen is that the little them is still trying to protect their parents or still trying to please, rather, their parents, right? Who didn't apologize to them, they're still trying to make them happy and be good for them. So if we say, Oh, wait, I'm going to do it different. I'm going to apologize to my kids, we're essentially saying my parents didn't do it right? I think, personally, I think there's a dynamic there that's interesting.

Casey O'Roarty 38:39
I am thinking about my own age, and that is, that is huge, yeah, not what the idea of not wanting, you know, I've heard from some of my family members like, Well, I'm not going to say anything bad about grandpa, right? And it's like, well, we all loved grandpa, but he had some tendencies. Yeah, there

Kirsten Cobabe. 38:56
might have been work that out there, exactly. And it's like we don't have to be hate on someone, but maybe we can acknowledge that something that person did didn't feel good or wasn't right or wasn't okay, or, you know, depending on what we're talking about. And so I think sometimes, yeah, it can really bring up a lot, and we're still a little, maybe frozen to some extent, in the pattern or the box we were raised in. And so it can be really difficult conversation. It's kind of a big one when we're breaking these patterns, these generational patterns, it is very courageous and brave and warrior work that requires, I think, a lot of heart and a lot of rest and a lot of

Casey O'Roarty 39:36
support, yeah, for sure. And then there's also the teen in front of you. Yeah, right. I always try to, and I encourage parents, you know, when I'm cleaning up my mess part of the process, because when I first, we have a whole tool making amends. The RS of recovery is what it's called in positive discipline, and it's a whole process. And that last and I remember learning about it. And thinking, I'm gonna be doing this all day long, and my kids are gonna be like, okay, heard it before, but there's this final step around like me, acknowledging my behavior and acknowledging that it wasn't okay, and then resolving and for me, sometimes it's like, how can we solve this problem together? But most of the time it sounds like here's what I'm working on, here's how I'm gonna work, to show up differently. And the more I put that out there, it seemed like it just less often am I saying that I'm sorry for flying off the handle, because I'm actually doing the things that I said I was gonna do. So yeah,

Kirsten Cobabe. 40:40
you put that out into the universe, and then, yeah, maybe your teens are holding you accountable or something. But energetic, right? And energetically, even just stating that we're going to do this can be really powerful and end up shifting. Because if we're shifting our beliefs and we're shifting our actions, and gosh, imagine for so many of us if our parents had said that, like, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry I yelled at you. That's on me. Here's what I'm working through, and I'm committed to being a better parent for you.

Casey O'Roarty 41:09
Yeah, and that was the piece that was missing in my experience. I heard the I'm sorry, I love you. I didn't hear, it wasn't okay for me to treat you like that. I didn't hear, here's what I'm gonna do, right to help myself not show up like that. So yeah, right, right. Kirsten, I have 100 questions for you, and I can't believe how fast time is going by. So we're gonna have to do a part two. At some point, I'm gonna say, let's do a part two. Yes, yes, yes, yes. But I do have a final question I want to make sure, like, what do you wish parents understood. I mean, I'm sure there's 100 things, but like top one or two things that you wish parents understood about their teens,

Kirsten Cobabe. 41:49
that they're doing the best they can all the time. I think that's a huge one, and it's so easy to forget. And so what's so important about that is reminding us we trust them. We trust ourselves. It's giving them the benefit of the doubt. It's instilling like it's not adding pressure, and it's just allowing what is and so if we can remember, they're doing the best they can all the time, just like all of us are, it'll just create a completely different atmosphere in the home, at least. That's what I've seen. That's a big one. Yeah, there's probably plenty more, but that's a good one thing to leave people with. Yeah, you really are

Casey O'Roarty 42:23
Thank you. What does joyful courage mean to you? Lately,

Kirsten Cobabe. 42:26
it's been feeling like being myself, and so I'm someone that often thinks about I'm very connected with the relationships in my life. They're very meaningful to me, and I really feel like, the more I'm myself, the more it invites other people to and vice versa, really be ourselves right where we are, exactly where they are. And thank goodness for my husband. He's like my master class, you know, whole learning workshop. And oh my gosh, you know, I have been able to be that with him, and it's really special. And so yeah, learning how to be ourselves and finding the people that see us, finding our people, finding people for your teams, finding our people, we are not supposed to do this alone. So we're maybe coming back to that too. Is a togetherness, even if it's digitally for the moment, yeah.

Casey O'Roarty 43:23
I mean, thank God for zoom. Who knew we'd all love zoom? I mean, I can't speak for everyone. I freaking love zoom.

Kirsten Cobabe. 43:30
I do amazing. Yeah, I'm so grateful to have these tools. Yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 43:33
definitely. Where can people find you and follow your work?

Kirsten Cobabe. 43:37
Head over to Instagram. Kirsten ko babe, and then everything in there. I've got courses and free stuff. I do one free call per family. That's the best spot, the kind of central hub.

Casey O'Roarty 43:49
Okay, well, and in my internet stalking of you, you've got kirstencobabe.com too, right? But definitely find Kirsten on Instagram everybody, because it's we're all on the social so we're all on the gram, yep. And it's always inspiring when your posts show up. So find her on the Instagram, and then we'll make sure all the links are in the show notes. Kirstencobabe.com, right? It's a.com

Kirsten Cobabe. 44:13
Yep, yay. You're good, yay. Thank you so much. Yes,

Casey O'Roarty 44:17
thank you so much. Thank you so much. This is really awesome, great.

Thank you for listening. I adore this community. I do truly. I love you guys. I'm so happy to bring you conversations that matter to you. Make sure you're on my email list, go to be sproutable.com/teens and get signed up now so you stay up to date on all the things you'll also get when you go to that page. Seven tips over seven days to support you in nurturing stronger connections with your tweens and teens. If you feel inspired and you haven't already, do me a favor. Head over to Apple podcast, leave a review. We're working really hard to stand out and make a massive impact on families around the globe. Your review helps the joyful courage podcast to be seen by even more parents. If you're not into leaving a review, you can take a screenshot, screenshot this podcast. Open your phone, take a screenshot, post it on your social media, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, wherever you are, wherever you want. Put it out there and say, Hey you guys, you should check this out. I find value in listening to this podcast. Do it. It would be so useful to me, a great way to give back to the show. Thank you to the team at sproutable for your back end help Rowan for your show notes, support and Chris at pod shaper for your stellar editing, I'm so honored that you listen each week. We're all doing the best we can in the moment that includes you see you next week for another solo show. Bye.

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