Eps 302: Creating Tradition and Connection with Ericka Sóuter

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Casey O'Roarty 0:00
Music, welcome, welcome. Welcome to the joyful courage podcast, a place where we tease apart what it means to be a conscious parent and a conscious human on the wild ride of parenting. I am thrilled that you are listening, and today I have a super special cast on talking about how we can all keep it together as we move through the upcoming holiday season. Now here in the States, we just celebrated Thanksgiving, a very loaded holiday, considering the brutal history of what the settlers did to the native tribes and the history there between whites and Native Americans. I cringe to think about the pilgrim and Indian reenactments that I grew up with moving through elementary school, and it is a day that invites family to sit around a table, sharing food and hopefully reflecting on what they're feeling grateful for I am currently feeling incredibly grateful for family and health this year and for the culinary gifts of my husband's aunt Darlene. We had a feast hosted by Uncle Beecher and Aunt Darlene. Thank you so much for having us and the rest of the family. It was beautiful to be together after not being able to be together last year. What you're going to hear about on today's show is how to move through the rest of this season in a way that feels connected. I realized when we finished recording the interview that we really only focused on the Christmas holiday. Kind of maybe feels like there's an assumption that that's the only holiday that's happening. So I wanted to just take a minute and highlight the other winter holidays that maybe you celebrate. Here we go. Thank you, Wikipedia. So there is Hanukkah. Hanukkah is a Jewish festival and is celebrated for eight days. Hanukkah reaffirms the ideals of Judaism and commemorates, in particular, the rededication of the Second Temple of Jerusalem by the lighting of candles on each day of the festival. There is Christmas, which is an annual festival commemorating the birth of Jesus Christ, observed primarily on december 25 as a religious and cultural celebration among billions of people around the world. There's also las Posadas. Las Posadas commemorates the journey that Joseph and Mary made from Nazareth to Bethlehem in search of a safe refuge where Mary could give birth to the baby Jesus. There's Kwanzaa. Kwanzaa is an annual celebration of African American culture that's held from december 26 through January 1, culminating in a communal feast called karamu. I realize I do not know how to pronounce that, and that is usually held on the sixth day the winter solstice, also called the Himal Solstice, or hibernal. I might be butchering that word Solstice. It occurs when either of the Earth's poles reaches its maximum tilt away from the sun. This happens twice yearly, once in each hemisphere. And finally, another holiday that happens during this time of year, and maybe your family celebrates. It is called Soyal it is the winter solstice ceremony of the Zuni and Hopi people held December 21 the shortest day of the year. Participants ceremonially, bring the sun back from its long slumber, mark the beginning of another cycle of the Wheel of the Year, and work on purification. So listen, even if Christmas isn't your jam, I know that you will take away good nuggets about how to create the holiday season you want, regardless of how you celebrate it. Okay. Also, don't forget that you can sign up for the seven day holiday challenge by going to joyful courage.com/seven day challenge. We start this Wednesday, Wednesday the first this is a week long experience of community and growth as we dial in our connection with our teens to create the holiday season, we want Sign up now. It's totally free. Okay? It's totally free. Go to joyful courage.com/seven. Day Challenge. Bring your friends. It's gonna be a lot of fun. All right. You ready to get on with it? Let's do it. Let's get on with the show. You. Hi, friends. I am so excited to introduce you to my guest today. Erica Suter is a nationally recognized voice in parenting news and parenting advice. She has over 20 years of journalism experience and. And is a frequent contributor on Good Morning America and other national broadcast outlets, where it's her job to speak to parents across the country about the issues, the controversies and the trends most affecting families today. Her new book is how to have a kid and a life a survival guide. Erica's work appears on the bump. What to expect, cafe, mom and mom.com all high traffic parenting sites that reach millions of moms every month. Her writing has also been featured in People Magazine, US Weekly, essence, cosmopolitan self and WebMD. She received her Bachelor degree from Georgetown University and a master's degree from Columbia University, Graduate School of Journalism. Hi, Erica, welcome to the podcast.

Ericka Sóuter 5:46
Hi, thank you. Very excited to be here.

Casey O'Roarty 5:49
I am so excited to have you here. Will you share a little bit with the listeners about your journey of getting into the parent education scene?

Ericka Sóuter 5:57
Yeah, of course. So I started my journalism career in entertainment and health, and I work for high profile magazines, travel the country, interviewing people, whether it was, you know, JLo or Jennifer Aniston. And then I also covered, you know, stories about health, medical miracles and things like that. And it was a really amazing career, but when I had a family, it just wasn't conducive to family life. So I started to shift toward most of the more health and wellness, and I started got a job at a wonderful website called Cafe mom, and it was all about the parenting journey. And so as an editor there, but I wasn't just editing copy every day. I also dived into focus groups and mommy meetups, and I went to conferences, and I started just doing research, because I wanted to be more on top of what parents care about and what they want to know, and to also find out if parents had the same issues that I did right, because parenting can seem kind of isolating and lonely when you're struggling with something. And so I started just gathering all this information, and I decided that I want to write a book on these things that we don't talk about. I want to write a book on all those things that parents struggle with that they don't necessarily share. So you know, my book isn't actually about raising your kids at all. It's actually about raising yourself and the person that you that is born when you have a child and you are a different person, and your life is different, and I don't know, care how much you prepare, you're going to hit some hurdles that you didn't expect. And oftentimes you don't feel like we have outlets to discuss those, or ways to figure out what's happening. And it hits us like suddenly. And I wanted to have a book that put all these issues together for what happens to in your career, your marriage, your relationship with women don't have kids, your relationships with women who do have kids like that's also a minefield that can be, for sure. I kind of put it all together in this guide because it's what I needed when I was a new parent. Yeah.

Casey O'Roarty 7:53
Oh, I love that. I love that language that you just used about who we are birthed into as we become mothers, because it is, it's such a big shift, and my focus is on parents of teens. And granted, you know, I got into parent education when my kids were really little, and so my focus was parents of little kids, and it's grown as my journey has moved forward. And listening to you talk just about shifting from no kids to kids. It's kind of the same experience as moving from like school age kids into adolescence, right? You can prepare, you can read the books, you can do all the things. God bless all of you out there that are listening, looking ahead and thinking, I'm gonna get on top of it by listening to this podcast. Because, you know, some of the stuff that shows up. You don't see coming, for sure,

Ericka Sóuter 8:42
I think what we don't expect is that with every stage our child goes through, we become new parents, because we have to adapt to what that kid needs at this stage. You know, I have a four year old and a 13 year old, and I am two different parents all the time because they need totally different things. And I think that you never think about that, right? You don't really, when you become a parent, you're like, diaper bag, you know, car seat, stroller. What's

Casey O'Roarty 9:07
the gear? Get the gear? You're good,

Ericka Sóuter 9:08
yeah. And that is not that is so far from being a complete list of things that you need or things that you need to prepare for. So, yeah. So I talk a lot about this thing called metros, and this idea that you're constantly growing, it sounds like adolescence for a reason, because when you become a parent, you go through all those crazy hormonal shifts, the changes in friends, the changes in lifestyle, all those things that change when you are becoming an adolescent. So it's like, I want parents to give themselves a little grace to understand if you're feeling overwhelmed and crazy or things aren't going how you planned in your head. That is more normal than things going perfectly.

Casey O'Roarty 9:44
And what I love about that, too, is anytime there's a book and it's like, actually, it's not about your kids, it's about you. I'm like, yes, yes, yes, yes, because I feel like this is one long personal growth and development workshop, right? And if. We can be in that mindset. I think it's such an easier, well, I won't say easier, but it's a different journey than when we stay stuck in but how do I get my kids to do what I want? But how do I fix this behavior right when we can expand into what is this experience bringing up for me? What is it that I want to create inside of this home, inside of this relationship? When we start there, I think we have a lot more power and a lot more expansiveness around where we can go with our families. So I love that.

Today we're talking about the holidays, the holiday season, which is quickly, I think I'm in denial. My husband and I are going out of town for a week next week, and so I'm just focused on that. And then the very next week is Thanksgiving. We're talking about making the holiday season a special time, specifically for you, families with adolescents, with teenagers, and for a lot of families with teens, you're in my community. I hear you and I see you. It's a struggle right now. The pandemic has such it's just wreaked havoc on the life of teens and on their families. And like what you said around each new stage and phase, we get to pivot. We get to adapt. What are you hearing from families right now about the struggles that especially the parents of teens? What's going on? Yeah,

Ericka Sóuter 11:30
so, you know, I think a lot of people being a teenager is hard in the first place, right? They're hormonal, they're moody, they're going to all these things, like making friends, keeping friends, allegiance to friends, clicks, grades, all this stuff is being compounded on them right now, right and now, on top of that, they have the pandemic. So so many parents have talked to me about trying to help their team through this crazy minefield. The problem is that parents are struggling too. Yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 11:59
we're in the minefield. We are in the minefield.

Ericka Sóuter 12:03
We are in it with them, right? But so it's like, how do I help my kid and help myself? Yeah, so that's really what I'm hearing, that people are just struggling because life is hard right now. You know, in the pandemic, obviously, is a big part of that. There's so much insecurity around jobs, around what you can do socially, around schooling and all these things. So everyone in the family is struggling a bit so that those are the kinds of conversations I'm having, because those kinds of questions I'm building I want parents to remember, and this is even hard for me, for my team, our kids, our teens, brains aren't fully developed yet, right? So we have all these things we want them to do. We want them to be more responsible, to react a certain way, to do this, to do that. Well, their brains can't do that yet, right? And so we have to give them a little bit of grace. We have to give them a pass on some certain things. I know it's very hard for parents to do, but keeping in mind that our kids are not mature adults yet and won't always act maturely, takes a little bit of the edge off, because we have all these expectations, like, why didn't he do this? Why didn't she do that? I told them to do X, Y and Z. Well, you know what? Kids don't get up in the morning and do their math homework. They don't want to, even if you want them to. And

Casey O'Roarty 13:17
it's not a character flaw, like it is not a character flaw that your kids don't care about cleaning their rooms. Oh, everybody, whenever

Ericka Sóuter 13:28
Calm down, this is what you know. And so we're always piling on all this pressure. And I make mistake and I do it myself, even though I've read every study, I talked to every expert in the world, and I and I know where his mind is at right now, and I still get upset when he doesn't do something I tell him to do. That's natural, but we have to kind of step back, especially like this time of the year. Like, one of the best gifts you can give to yourself and your kid is giving everyone a little break, you know, take cut down those expectations, you know, just a little bit. You know, of course, you don't want them to fell out of school and go skateboard all day. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is allow them to make mistakes, know that they will make mistakes and help guide them through those mistakes.

Casey O'Roarty 14:08
Yeah, I'm so in this with my 18 year old and some realizations that she's having about some of the choices that she's recently been making for herself. And you know, some of our kids, they just want to take the hardest possible route, and I try to really keep her focused on, like, what these choices offered for her, like the flexing that she gets to do around being a self advocate and finding resiliency and sticking with it, like it's really powerful. And you know, considering that her, even at 18, continuing to develop that, that brain, you know, she receives it as she receives it. And I love that you said that, because just last night in a parent group and my membership group on our coaching call, one of the super. Wise moms reminded another mom, you know, like we get into these conversations with our teens, and you know, one of the things we're going to talk about this is our kids pulling away, isolating sometimes that can look like, you know, rejection and some disrespectful behavior. And when we were talking about coming into conversation with our kids and teasing it apart and setting our boundaries and and stepping into mutual respect. This mom said, you know, remember too, that the empathy that you as the parent are looking for is an inappropriate expectation for this 13 year old, like they're not there. And again, that's right. It's not the fault of the child. It's not bad parenting, it's not character flaws, it's simply where they're at. And I that was, I mean, that just landed so hard with me when she said that, because we expect that, you know, like, Do you know how it feels to be treated XYZ? Do you know? You know we expect them to know what we need inside of this relationship, and yet they haven't had enough life experience, yeah, to develop that lens,

Ericka Sóuter 16:08
and it's okay to set boundaries and set rules, but you also have to be okay with reminding them of those like, you know, I so many parents told me, like, I told him that this is what he's supposed to do. And I'm like, You know what? Kids need to be reminded it is okay that you have to continually tell him that. Yeah. So, yeah. So we have to be willing to engage with our kids, to be that person that helps remind them and teaches them and helps them along. It's not they're not going to intuitively get it. That's just not the way children work. And you're still our child through your teens. It's like in your early fine, 24

Casey O'Roarty 16:46
okay, maybe they need to, hopefully, you

Ericka Sóuter 16:50
know, when you're talking about people in their teens, it's just we're there to help guide them, to reassure them. So we want to give them rules like, I think that's really important. We want to give them rules and boundaries and guidance, but we also want to help lift them up. And I find that in so in these modern stressful times, we are more often coming down in our kids, right? And we also have to build up their ability to be self advocates. I love that you use that word, because that's huge. Kids need to know how to ask for help, go to someone when something is wrong or when they feel scared or hurt or in danger or want something to be better, but they also have to have a sense of confidence that they have a right to advocate for themselves. And I feel that as that gets lost in this craziness that we're living right now, we also have to make time to, yes, give them rules and structure and boundaries, but also lift them up and let them know that you're going to make mistakes, but you I'm giving you the foundation where you're going to be okay, and here's how you know. So it's, it's, it's a heart, it's like, not a perfect science being a parent, and everything's different, right? Different aids, and there's a different approach to helping every kid. So we have to be more flexible. I think that is one thing. I want parents to be just more flexible. What worked for your sister's kids may not work for your kids, right?

Casey O'Roarty 18:13
And by the way, when the door closes at your sister's house, you really don't know what's going on over there. So I think that oh, we get really down on ourselves, right? Because it looks like everyone else. Well, sometimes it can look like everyone else has it together, and none of us have it together. We have moments. I think there's moments of having it together and yay, like, let's just aim for that. Let's set the bar there, right? So, as my listeners know, I am a positive discipline trainer, and I've really been talking about positive discipline as a relationship centered approach, so it really leans heavy on the relationship and the connection that's happening between parent and child. And you know, due to everything we just mentioned, and brain development and stress of holidays, like things can feel for a lot of parents, it feels relationship feels really frayed right now, and so they're navigating that the holidays are rolling in. What are some things that parents can do to keep the stress level down so that they can even be available for relationship with their teens, right?

Ericka Sóuter 19:19
So this is something that I've tried with my own kids. The four year old nuts, not so much. He's like, I just want to play cars. Leave me alone with a teenager. We have conversations every day, right? And it started, actually, before he was a team. But this, this couldn't work with kids at any way, any age. But you know, when we're driving home from school or we're driving to an appointment or something like that, that's the time I used to kind of, like, try to connect with them and ask them, like, oh, how is your friends, you know, such and such doing? Or like, you know, did anything happen at school? Do they make you laugh? You don't want to just ask them how your day was, because the answer is that no. So I said another one. I said, to do something? Did you do something? Nice for someone today, or did someone do something nice for you? And did you see something in the cafeteria that you thought wasn't cool? You know, behavior that you so to kind of engage them in, making them think that you care about what they're thinking and what's going on. And I'm not there to judge it, and I'm not there to correct what he saw or anything. I'm there to listen, and I'll be like, Oh, my God, that's crazy. Or what did you think about that? Or, you know, something like that. So I think like engaging with your kids when you're not reprimanding them, telling them something to do, or barking instructions, is really an important way to connect with them, especially now, like I have developed this relationship with my teenager where he tells me things. And I think it's like, such a miracle. It's so nice, because I let him tell me things without me jumping all over, even when I'm a little alarmed, and then later I might come back to it, right? I don't, in that moment when he's sharing, I don't feel like, Oh my God, that's, don't do that, you know, or so, and so did that. That's crazy. I'm just, like, listening, and then, like, later, I'll follow up and make sure to follow up with a conversation, whether it's morning or what have you. Honestly, there's something dangerous. You jump in right away and do your parent thing, but engaging with your kids when there's no expectation of reaction, right? So it's not like the telling them I want you to do X, Y and Z, go do X, Y and Z. This is just really trying to engage. And you know, when we hear that, that phrase, meet them where they are, yep, in my mind, this is the example of meeting them, where you where they are, talking about what they're seeing, what they're feeling, what they're doing, and just listening to them, yeah. And you know, it's hard. You know, teenagers are a tough crowd, but you have to keep trying, right? And you have to keep trying to not be their best friend, but be a listener for them. Yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 21:47
I love that Erica, and it's something I talk about with how I talk to my kids as well. And I think there's something to be said too, for our kids are willing to share with us when they know, when we've established, when we've modeled and given them evidence that we can be a non judgmental listener, right? So anybody that's out there that's like, I can't ask those questions, my kids don't respond. I am just going to encourage you to take a minute and really get honest with yourself and notice, think back to some of the times when your kids have opened up to you, and have you been able to hold whatever it is that they've shared with you in a non judgmental space? And I love this in the context of bringing the stress level down, because I know for me, when I'm sitting outside of my kids' experience, and I'm making guesses about what they think and how they feel, making assumptions. That's when I can really start to go to the dark place, right? Well, they probably think this, and this is probably what's happening, and worst case scenario, the road just gets paved to worst case scenario, right? Versus like, what you're saying with these questions and listening to really understand, to me, that's also about listening, not just to understand what they're saying, listening to understand their experience. I also listen for like, we talk a lot about kids and screens and we're all worried about porn and predators, right? Like our kids are sitting targets, and our kids have also been raised in an environment that is constantly talking about online safety, like our kids have way more skill, not that there aren't sitting ducks out there for predators, but like they have way more skill than we give them credit for. And I feel like these kinds of conversations, like with my kids, I ask things like, so what are your tells? Like, what are the things when people show up in your DMS who you don't know? How do you know whether or not it's a creepy 40 year old man looking to scam you, or just some kid who's a friend of a friend, which happens all the time, you know, and then hearing from them, okay, well, here's what I do. I look at their profile, I see how many friends they have. I do this. Like, there's all sorts of red flags that our kids already have. And so having conversations, I think, or like, wow, I read this article about vaping. What do you think about vaping? No eye contact, right, side by side in the car, right, right, and feeling it out so that we can calm down because we have a better understanding of our kid. And they also get this opportunity to realize, like, Wow, mom or dad can handle having these conversations, so I'm going to bring it to him when I need to, yeah.

Ericka Sóuter 24:36
And then what I've also noticed is that it's really both parent. If there's a two parent household, it's really both parents who are able to do this, right? It's usually, and in my house, I'm the more laid back listener my husband's, the more like, what you know, like, very, more conservative. And so I really want, if you're one of you has. To be this person, right? One of them has to be for your benefit and your kids benefit, and then you can always report to the more conservative what's going on. And that's what I do. I'm like, Well, you know, he talks to me because, and this is what, what he said about XYZ, and you it's it takes work. Like, don't think that you're gonna, the first day you try, you're gonna get the answers you you want. It's just like any relationship you build. You built your relationship with your partner. You built a friendship. When you talking about a relationship where you want your kids to talk to you, you have to build that. You have to build up to that. Yeah, and I so I don't want people to get discouraged if they try and it's, it's not working, but you have to keep, keep at it,

Casey O'Roarty 25:41
yeah, yeah. One of the things that I will offer to parents too, like, not only keep at it, but if they're, you know, it might also sound like, hey, so I notice that you get real quiet when I ask you questions. And I'm wondering if it feels like whatever you say, I'm gonna have an opinion about, yeah, yeah, right. Like, I love kind of that idea of pulling, like, pull the bullshit curtain to the side and just be super real. Like, we set up a dynamic you're in. Every single one of us is in a dynamic that we were part of, co creating with our kids. And if that dynamic isn't working for you, then start to play around with what your part of it has been own it, and then pivot into something, into something different, and give your kids time, yeah, you know, because they might be like, Yeah, I hear this weekly, and you still keep showing up the same. So we'll see, right? And

Ericka Sóuter 26:35
to get into that mind space, parents need to think about what they were like when they were 15 years old, and the kind of person they wanted to open up to and talk to. And, you know, and it's so hard. We're so far from that period that sometimes it's hard to take ourselves back there emotionally. But you really have to think about it, like, Are you the kind of person that a teenager would want to open up to? And if you're not, then kind of change the way you talk to that teenager, or relate to that teenager in those quiet moments. You know, we don't, we don't all, like I said, we don't always have to be barking instructions to them. We can and and honestly, it helps take the stress off, right? So if you do have this time in the day where you can just talk to your kid and it not be about what they did right or wrong, but about, like, who they are, what they're going through. It just, it just makes parenting a little less scary.

Casey O'Roarty 27:27
Yeah, yeah. I definitely agree. Okay, we have to talk about holidays now. Erica, yeah. Oh, joy. So, yeah, talk to me because, you know, but that's the thing, right? Like, it's so there's this like magic when they're little, and there's Santa and there's candles, you know, depending on your tradition, there's that magic that exists with our little kids that is challenging, to say the least, to keep alive, right with these older kids. So talk a little bit about how important traditions around the holidays are for families, even as their kids get older,

Ericka Sóuter 28:06
right? So, you know, traditions are important, right? They're things that can go back to every year, and everyone remembers and everyone loves always. That's the hope. But what I have found is that sometimes we're so stuck on the way we've always done things that were were so inflexible about adapting or changing or adding new traditions. I think as your kids get older, you know, they may not be interested in Santa, or they may not be interested in whatever

Casey O'Roarty 28:32
it is that you do with, oh, they're interested in, they're interested in

Ericka Sóuter 28:36
what Santa is going to bring them. Well, getting stuff, but maybe, if you have always had, like, No, you make popcorn strings, or you make your stockings, or you go to this place or that, whatever. You know, I am a big advocate on keeping some of your old traditions, but adding new ones, and adding new ones that your teenagers will be interested in and want to do, and making them a part of that process, and that kind of helps, like you said, it helps the buy in. It helps them feel excited about it, because we kind of force things on them, you know you're we all know what a teenager looks like when they don't want to do something and they're annoyed, but they're there because you're making them be there, and then we're upset because we're like, why aren't you grateful? Don't you want to are you happy to be with your family?

Casey O'Roarty 29:20
And how dare you not be in the holiday mood,

Ericka Sóuter 29:23
right? What about doing something like, you know? So I'd say like, if you have traditions like, but if you have five family old traditions, right? Keep to add two new ones. You know? What's wrong with that? I think people need to, parents need to be more flexible about adapting to what their family and their kids are like, not saying, not doing things together. Still do things together, but get everyone you know, like, hey, what do you guys want to do this year? Do you want to go? I mean, no, no one Carols anymore, but you know what I mean? Do you want to go to, you know, so and so's house and like, help decorate her house. Or. Go while we watch a movie. Like, let's do, let's pick, you know, on the 12 days of Christmas, let's do 12 movies, and everyone gets to pick two, or whatever it is. Like, just kind of like, evolve and adapt and still do things as a family that everyone in the family can feel good about.

Casey O'Roarty 30:16
Yeah, I was as you were talking, I was thinking about when my kids were little, I feel like I had a better connection to community events because they're all gaged, you know, like all the newsletters I was getting at the time through their school and everything, like, oh, tree lighting, or, you know, Art Walk, holiday theme. And I was just thinking all of that continues to be available. It's just not landing in my inbox. So that's, you know, one thing that came to mind as well is to kind of revisit, what are some of the community traditions that are happening. And like you said, invite the kids to pick, let's pick one of these. Which ones, which one do you want to go to? Something that we did last year? So we've always done advent calendars. And my parents are hilarious. They always send my kids, like, you know, my daughter gets one from, like, The Body Shop. And last year, My poor son, he got an advent calendar. Yeah, it was super awesome for her. Ian got a hot sauce advent calendar. So in the end, he was like, I don't understand this. So funny. And we've had, you know, different little things where it's like a piece of chocolate every day. And last year, you know, we were all home, it was 2020, and we have this cute little advent calendar with little doors, and you can decide what to put in where. And I invited the kids. I had no idea how this would land, okay, but I asked the kids. I said, How about each of us get six of these little pieces of paper, and you get to write six activities that we can do together as a family, and then we're just gonna mix them all up. And the kids were like, okay, yeah, let's do it. And I said, if you have things where you need supplies, let me know. I'll make sure there's supplies. We watched movies and we baked and we did YouTube painting classes. Yeah, was really, really cool. And, you know, this year is a lot busier, so, like, the pivot, like you're talking about, be flexible. I'm thinking, okay, maybe this year, instead of six activities, you know, each kid could pick two things we could do together, and then the other four might be prompts for conversation. Oh, that's cool, yeah, so I'm going to play with that and see what they think about that. Yeah, I love

Ericka Sóuter 32:29
that. And I think also, also parents shouldn't be so reluctant to bring in their friends, yeah, to activities or even family gatherings or things you want to do in your home, or even trips you want to take, like bringing in helping them, also foster a sense of community outside your home is also incredibly important. And as when they're teens, sometimes their friends are very important to them. So, you know, I know in my house, we always include my older son's friends. You know, we have some kind of big dinner or celebration, or whatever, like, invite a couple of friends over, and it's like, it's nice for everyone. It's nice for him, because he feels like, you know, he's not just forced with his four year old brother, but he has fun and his friends have fun. So I feel, I feel as though that's another part of being flexible, by inviting other people in and helping your kid also maintain and solidify connections to other people that they think are important to them. I

Casey O'Roarty 33:23
love that.

Now. I saw a little video clip of you, Erica. I watched a few I did a little deep dive today, but the one talking about gratitude, and you had some great ideas around how to foster gratitude in our families. Will you share a little bit about some of your gratitude ideas?

Ericka Sóuter 33:53
Yeah, I'm not quite sure which video that you saw, but I do talk and write a lot about gratitude, and I feel as though, you know, we always are telling our kids, be grateful, be grateful, but kids learn the learning should be experiential with kids. That's what stays in their mind. That is, that is how we submit this idea of gratitude so and it doesn't even just have to be around the holidays. Every single day I walk out of my building. I live in New York City, and we live in an apartment building, and there's a doorman downstairs, or my kids cannot leave or come in the door without saying thank you or not saying hi. How are you or and that's like tiny but if it's your mailman, it's your neighbor, if it's whoever it is that you run into, your kids, should know there's a baseline of respect, right? And thanking the people that help them, whether it's at the pharmacy or the grocery store. So that's what the baseline of gratitude, because their jobs are hard, and you want your kids to be grateful for but then when it comes to like, bigger things, right? Every year, one of the things that we do is like, Santa doesn't come until we give away things that we. Don't use that are nice things that we don't use, that someone else can use, right? So we give away clothes, we give them away shoes, we give away toys, and I make my kids choose them. It's easy for it'll be easy for me to go in there and do it, but active to the end, and I tell them why? Like we're giving this. So not everyone can have brand new toys. Not everyone gets everyone has warm clothes during the cold weather and and I don't feel that for us too young to express that like and then I did it with my older one, and I started when he was young, and so and then we choose a place to donate together. And now it's like more just dropping off because we can't go in places. Yeah? And we also spend time with people that we think are. We wonder if they're lonely, or we have neighbors who don't seem to have any family. So I have my kids make cards, and, you know, my little make Play Doh art for for the neighbor, and just kind of just teaching them, you know, this person doesn't have a lot of family. They don't have grandkids that are going to make really nice things for them. So let's do that because we're so grateful that we have a bigger family and that we have, you know, people who love us and surround us. So again, it's experiential, and kids really need to be a part of it for it to really sink in.

Casey O'Roarty 36:07
Yeah, yeah, I love that. And it's all stressful, right? We're still, they're still teenagers, we're still parents, we're still it's just, you know, Christmas comes on Saturday, it's still just a regular Saturday. So what are some tips that you have for us around taking care of ourselves as we move through the season?

Ericka Sóuter 36:32
So I have one that not everyone can agree with, but this is how I've come in in my years. But I had decided five years ago that I will be no longer making a turkey. I will be buying a turkey from someplace that is thank God someone else can make it a lot better than I can, and it was something that stressed me out so much. And I can make the sides, I can make all the other stuff, but something about the turkey, because that's not right. You just feel like you've ruined forever I posted, on myself because I want that's the one thing I want to be perfect. I can't do it perfectly. I own it, I accept it.

Casey O'Roarty 37:12
I'm going to go by some therapy around that Erica. I own it, I accept it. Yeah, I am passing on the turkey responsibility, yes,

Ericka Sóuter 37:21
looking at me with side eye being like, Oh, she didn't make her own Turkey. But I'm okay with that. That's fine. It's, it's the kind of thing where you have to figure out what is giving you the most stress, and what can you let go? For me, it was making the turkey. And for other people, it's, you know, the craziness of shopping. And I don't, here's, here's another thing that not every parent agrees with. But you don't have to buy your kid every single thing on their list. You don't everybody

Casey O'Roarty 37:48
listening, yeah, yeah, exactly. If we bought everything on their list, it's like, well, we can't pay the mortgage.

Ericka Sóuter 37:56
My kids get one big thing each, and then some little stuff, and they're fine with it, you know, I didn't know this when I was a younger parent, and I would kind of go crazy with my older one when he was at all. And we went away for Christmas one year, and all that could fitness suitcase was like three little toys, like two cars and a stuffed animal. He was like four, and he loved it, and he played with it. And then at home, I had had the Christmas tree, had a ton of more gifts under it, and we weren't going to get back till after Christmas. And you know what? I realized that I wasted all that time and money because he was happy with his three little gifts. And we, we kind of create these little monsters who think they should get tons of presents and everything that they want. You don't have to do that to give your kids a nice Christmas. And I think that helps relieve some of the pressure, because I see parents like going crazy, going broke, really, yeah, and stressing out, and especially now financially, the times are very hard. And I think it's okay to tell your kids, you know, everyone's gonna get three things this year. What three things do you want? Or make a list of things you want, where you're gonna stand it, or if you have kids to believe in Santa. Santa. Santa's going to bring you three of them. Or if you have an older kid, you're like, you know what? Everyone's getting, like, three things. And that's fine, too. So I think, like, managing your own expectations and your feelings expectations about gifts, yeah, is really important. And I also think taking a breather, and I was guilty of this today. Today was like, felt like a day from hell. For me, I was running around just like, going crazy. And I was like, Okay, I'm gonna take a minute and I'm gonna, like, go and buy a lipstick. I know that's like, for me, I like that. Like, I like lipstick. I'm gonna take 20 minutes and go into the beauty supply store and buy this. And I know that, like, people think that's like, so frivolous, but for me, it's a little relief. Was a little break in the craziness of my day, and I made the time for it. And yes, I'd go back to rushing afterwards, but people need to make time for themselves. And I think one of the things that parents don't realize or people. All in general, your happiness matters. And I, my book, I talk about this research of 22 developed countries. And of 22 developed countries, it was the parents in the US that were the least happy. And then

Casey O'Roarty 40:12
Americans, we get it together. We have such we

Ericka Sóuter 40:16
have a developed country. There's access to a lot more than so many other countries out there, but we are the least happy. And if there are less things that go into that we don't have the kind of support with childcare, we don't have paid leave, we don't there's so many things that go into making parenting stressful, but part of it is that we don't make time for ourselves. And what's important to remember is that the things that make you happy outside your family, whether it's knitting or running or work or whatever it is that you'd like, that brings you joy, that sparks some joy in you. It's also important. You have to make time for that. So that's something I really, really want people to take home and remember, I'm not saying it has to be, don't like leave your family and go live on the beach in Hawaii. Sounds

Casey O'Roarty 41:01
pretty good,

Ericka Sóuter 41:03
but it's okay if the dinner isn't like a gourmet meal, and you took that time, you took part of that time to do something for yourself in the evening.

Casey O'Roarty 41:12
I mean, I love that example that you gave today, like you were having this day, and it's just like, like, I'm picturing you. I've not spent hardly any time in New York City, but I have a vision of you just like, you know, swinging open that door and stepping in and taking that breath of air and the beauty supply, and like, I'm just gonna get myself some lipstick right now. Calm the F down, right and right, yeah. And I think that we forget that there is enough time in the day to take a pause right? There's enough, there's enough time in the day to relax for a minute. Take a pause. Feel your feet on the ground. I like to you know that's a mentor. My mentor talks about feeling your feet on the ground, connecting with the connection that we have to the earth, and just like allowing for the moment to be there, everything else, yeah. And breathing, everything else is, is waiting, right? It's fine, but it's

Ericka Sóuter 42:07
over there. Yeah, yeah. And so, I think, like, too, and it's, I think one of the things I noticed is that so many people don't take deep breaths. And I'm not talking about when you're hyperventilating. I'm just talking about, like, just taking Yeah, and even that two seconds is something people aren't doing for themselves. So or

Casey O'Roarty 42:27
the eye roll, like, okay, yeah, yeah, I know I need to breathe. No. It's like, no, really, really. And the tension

Ericka Sóuter 42:33
I I'm walking home and I'm coming from the grocery store, because in New York, we don't really

Casey O'Roarty 42:38
drive to the grocery store. Very fascinating to me. All right,

Ericka Sóuter 42:41
you have your bag, and I'll see a bench, and I'll sit down for like, five and I'll be like, before I go to the craziness of the grocery store, I'm gonna sit down and call my best friend who lives in Michigan, and we're gonna gossip or gab or whatever we want about whatever we want to for a few minutes, and then I'm gonna go home and do what I need to do for my family. Yeah, and those moments are so important, and they're okay. And also people are so overwhelmed and crazy and hectic, and they live these like totally, you know, can't catch their breath. Kind of lives our children are seeing that, you know, when you think about what your kids are going to be like as an adult, do you want them to be frazzled and feel completely overwhelmed and never make time for themselves? Of course, not. Be the kind of adult you want your child to be. Yeah? So at every age, whether you have little kids, big kids or teens, they're watching.

Casey O'Roarty 43:29
Yeah, they are. I love that. Okay, I love this conversation. Erica. I'm sure all of you that are listening, you're probably like, oh, tips for the holidays. Here's the thing. There's no formula for the holidays like this is about being in relationship with the people in your family. I love that we talked about, you know, growing and nurturing, how we can grow and nurture that with our teens. I love that we talked a little bit about tradition and buy in and being flexible, and that piece around taking care of yourself, especially permission not to cook the turkey. Thank you. Is there anything else as we wrap up Erica that you want to make sure to land or to share today with the listeners? Yeah,

Ericka Sóuter 44:09
I think one of the best gifts you can give yourself this season is finding out what you want to do outside of family and work, finding that hobby or that activity or that thing that can just be your own, and not enough of us have that thing that it's our own, that has nothing to do with your kids or your partner. You need to make a connection to the world outside of your family responsibilities, and it doesn't have to take a lot of time. It doesn't have to be something that takes away from your family, but it's something that you do for yourself. Like I said it could be running, it could be gardening, whatever, going to a horse farm and riding a horse once a week, whatever it is. You deserve that, and you need that. And I think that people don't realize how much they need space and time for themselves. And for some people, it'll be like me, they do it on a Sunday. Part of people, that'd be 10 minutes a day. Yeah, and just please give yourself that gift, and it'll, it'll really, it'll help you get through some of these hectic days, because you'll have that to look forward to, right? You'll know that that's there for you. Yeah, I

Casey O'Roarty 45:11
love that, because we're moving into holiday season, and then we'll move out of it, but then we'll be moving into spring, and all the spring, I mean, it's just not necessarily, and now we're done, right? It's an ebb and a flow, and all of the things that we talked about today are super useful for the rest of the year as well. So thank you so much. And everybody, if you need permission to get yourself a little bit of a life outside of your family and your work, Erica and I are here giving you permission. Okay? Full permission. Full permission. Go forth and have fun. Yes, please, please. So my final question that I always close with with my guests is, what does joyful courage mean to you?

Ericka Sóuter 45:52
Well, when I think about courage, Being courageous is one of the scariest things we can do, but it's also the most beneficial right without kind of stepping out or stepping in to something you just never know what you can be or what you can do. And I think I want people I when I think about joyful courage, I think about embracing that fear and embracing that you know, that fear of change and moving forward and all the and how joyful you will be because you tried, because you wanted to do something wonderful, or be something wonderful, or help your kids do or be something wonderful, and you took that step and you did it, and it just brings so much joy. And so that's how I think of joyful courage. Maybe everyone thinks about it, but courage is one of the most important things we can be as people. And if you don't try, you'll never know. Yep,

Casey O'Roarty 46:43
every day just getting up and out of bed, you're sparking your courage. I love that. Thank you, Erica. Where can people find you and your offers and your book and follow your work?

Ericka Sóuter 46:55
Well, you can find most of my work at Erica souter.com it's E R, I, C, K, A, S, O, U, T, E, R, that's my website. But I also I'm constantly writing for the bump web, M, D, cafe, mom, mom.com, so I write about parenting, I explore the issue. You can also follow me on Instagram, which is also my name, where I post my work, or I post studies or things of interest to parents. So I'm out there, and you can contact me through my website if you have any questions or you want to connect, or anything like that, because this is what I love to do. I love connecting with parents and talking about our challenges and trying to find solutions.

Casey O'Roarty 47:30
Yes, and your book, oh, yeah, my book,

Ericka Sóuter 47:33
How to have a kid with life. You can find it at Barnes and Noble Amazon target. Wherever books are sold, you can also order it through my website. So please take a look. It is a wonderful, wonderful read. It's funny. It has lots of anecdotes. I spent time interviewing 200 Moms Across this country over five years. Lots of interesting stories and something for everyone, whether you're single mom, new mom, mom of teens. It really is a great book for parents,

Casey O'Roarty 48:05
awesome. Thank you and listeners. I'll make sure all of those links are in the show notes. Erica, thank you so much for spending time with me today. This is great.

Ericka Sóuter 48:13
Thank you.

Casey O'Roarty 48:19
Yes. Thank you so much for listening. I have to tell you all I turned off the record button after that interview was over, and I just spontaneously said, I love you to Erica. Wasn't she so dreamy? I really liked her. Please don't forget that I would love, love. Love for you to leave a review about this show on Apple podcasts. I know that you get a lot out of listening to this show. You send me DMS and emails and let me know that it's powerful for you. What would really, really, really help me out. A great way to pay it forward is to leave a review on Apple podcasts. If you don't know how to do that, send me an email and I'll help you. I work super hard each week to stand out and make an impact. Your reviews help the show be seen by more parents. Apple will actually show it as my reviews get more abundant and the rating gets better, what happens is Apple's like, Oh, this is a really popular show. Let's show it to more people who are listening to podcasts about parenting. So your review really helps me to be seen by more parents. Thank you also follow joyful courage. Joyful underscore courage on Instagram and Facebook. You can join my Facebook group at joyful courage, parents of teens. I love connecting with you on social media. Take a screenshot right now of this episode. Like pick up your phone. If you're listening through your phone, you know the screen will light up. It'll show the episode on the page, on the screen, take a screenshot and share it in your socials. Tag me and I'll. Share. Okay, let's get the word out. Have a beautiful week, my friends. I'll be back next week, and I'm really excited again for that challenge to start on Wednesday. Come join me in there. I'll see you soon. Love you.

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