Transcription
Casey O'Roarty 0:08
Kay, welcome to Thursdays on the joyful courage podcast, a place for real conversations on the road of parenting adolescents. I am your host. Casey overardi, I a positive discipline, lead, trainer, parent, coach and adolescent lead at sproutable, where we celebrate not only the growth of children, but also the journey and evolution that we all get to go through as parents. So this Thursday space, this is the solo show space, meaning this fall, we're playing with you all hearing from me about my thoughts on parenting through the teen years, and this particular week is a throwback show, so I have a lot of these. I've accrued many episodes in the vault, so so many that it is hard to choose for new listeners, which ones to listen to. So I'm gonna help you out by Re sharing some of my favorites. And this week, we're going to revisit episode 259, where we explore the question is this positive discipline? As you've heard me say, this is a place where we keep it real, right? You hear my own real stories, real stories from my guests on Mondays. Real parenting. The teen years are messy, and there aren't many right answers, but the more we trust ourselves and trust our kids, the better the outcomes can be. I want to remind you that I'm walking the path right next to you, imperfectly doing the work inside of my relationships with my own two teens. I see you. I get what you're going through, and I am honored to support you on the journey. If you ever have any questions or want to offer some feedback, you can always email me directly at Casey, at joyful courage.com, I really hope you enjoy this show. It's one of my favorites. See you soon.
All right, let's get down to business. My friends, I am so glad that you're here. Welcome today, like I've already said, is a solo show, and I am going to back. I'm going to go back to some basics with you. I have had a couple of new clients that I've been working with, and I'm also starting to go through the feedback from the parenting for the season you're in course that I put out in December, I had a beta group go through it, and now I'm collecting feedback about their experience. And something that both you know my new clients and the feedback is reminding me, is that I can always slice things thinner to support you in the practice of parenting. So today, we're going to slice it a little bit thinner, and it's interesting, too. I mean, you listen to the podcast, maybe you've listened to some of the summits, but maybe you've never actually been through a proper, positive discipline course or program. And so you might be hearing some things that are exciting and inspiring, but when it comes down to asking the question of, is this positive discipline? Am I using positive discipline right now? It can feel kind of unclear or vague and so on. Today's show, I thought we could break it down a little bit, right? We're gonna break it down so that you have some criteria to use to know is this way of handling the problem, the positive discipline, way or not. And I'm not here to judge. I am not here to judge because I would be judging myself. Sometimes I've handled things in the heat of the moment, and I am not proud about the way that it unfolds. It definitely has not fit with the criteria for positive discipline. And as you know, if you've been listening to me, I also see those kinds of experiences as opportunities to go back and make things right, straighten things out, make amends, repair relationships. So it's not about being perfect. It's about bringing you a little bit more information and guidance to support you if the direction that you want to head in is to be using more positive discipline in your home with your kids, okay? And what I'm going to use to kind of guide this conversation that I'm having between myself and all of you that are listening, I'm going to use the five criteria for positive discipline that Jane Nelson wrote. And if you don't know. Who Jane Nelson is, let me tell you. She is the author of the original positive discipline book. She is an Adlerian therapist. She is a brilliant, brilliant woman and and is a mentor and friend of mine. So just know when I'm talking about positive discipline, I'm talking about capital P, capital D, positive discipline, the explicit philosophy. So here's what happens. There's a lot out in the world around positive parenting, gentle parenting. Yeah, positive parenting, gentle parenting, peaceful parenting, and that is all good. And I think that you know, positive discipline definitely fits underneath the umbrella of those wider brushstrokes of you know, positive parenting, but positive discipline is an explicit program, and so I just wanted to make that really clear. There are books, there are courses, some of which I have led, both live and online, live with, you know, real life participants. And yeah, so I just wanted to make that really clear too, because I think sometimes that gets lost. I think people throw out the words positive discipline kind of as a thing without necessarily having it mean this explicit program.
So Jane Nelson writes about the five criteria for positive discipline. It's in the first chapter of her book, and we're going to just go through each of the criteria and kind of tease them apart and deconstruct them. That's my goal today. So the very first question that we can ask about, am I is this solution that I'm finding, is this response that I'm giving to right now? Is it positive discipline? The first question is, well, is it kind and firm at the same time, and what that means, is it respectful and encouraging? Right? Kind and firm at the same time, am I being kind and staying connected to my child while also holding boundaries and respecting myself and the situation? Okay? Now it's easy to just ask that, like, is it kind and firm, and then you're in it, and it's like, oh my gosh, I don't know how to be both of these at the same time. Like, we're really good at connecting with our kids and, you know, we're really good at being firm and holding boundaries and respecting ourselves in the situation both at the same time. There aren't great models for it. Okay, so I'm just gonna say that straight up, there aren't great models for it. The other thing that happens right in with kind and firm is sometimes, and this just happened today, sometimes parents will ask the question, but what if they don't follow through? What if I'm kind and firm, and they still won't do XYZ, right? And I think this is really an interesting place to pause and to recognize that that question might not be the right question to be asking, right? Because if we're asking, What if they don't follow through? Most of the time, when I hear that question, it's from parents who don't expect our kids, their kids, to follow through. And if you're coming into this already not expecting, not trusting the follow through, then you are creating an energy for that to be your reality, right? Remember, our kids speak to us in code, toddlers all the way through teens. I think all of us speak in code, right? They're always telling us about their experience, the experience that they're having through their behavior, right? And it doesn't matter if it's, you know, cooperative, contributing, you know, loving or whining or fighting, destructive, defiant, regardless of what our kids are doing, their behavior is letting us know what kind of experience that they're have, having, and when We can respond to the behavior with kindness and firmness, and sometimes firmness is in the form of curiosity and inquiry. When we respond that way, our kids start to feel felt and understood valued, and they find more. Ease, like we're setting up an environment of more ease and less tension, okay, responding with kindness and firmness. And I'm gonna go back so I said sometimes the firmness, sometimes firmness shows up in the form of curiosity and inquiry. Okay? I think most of us, when we hear the word firmness, it's like, okay, great. That's where I lay down the law, that's where I declare the expectation, that's where I set the boundary. Sometimes firmness is curiosity. Sometimes firmness is wow. You are having a really hard time right now, and I'm really curious about what's going on for you, right? Firmness is about holding a container, and sometimes the container our kids need is one where they get to be invited into more expression of what's going on for them, okay? Kindness and firmness, we're gonna kind of scaffold a bunch of stuff here today. So kindness and firmness, the second question that falls under five criteria for positive discipline. The second thing we can ask is, is what I'm doing helping my child feel a sense of belonging and significance. Okay, if you don't know very much about positive discipline, this is really key positive discipline. At the heart of positive discipline is belonging and significance. Positive Discipline is based on the work of Alfred Adler, who was one of the first social psychologists the beginning of the 1900s and he found through his work that human behavior is always motivated, influenced by and movement towards a sense of belonging and significance. This is what behavior is all about for all of us, us adults as well as our young adults, our teens, our toddlers, most of our mischief comes from our perception about whether or not we matter or if we're feeling connected. And again, this is human. This isn't child. You and I get into mischief when we've, you know, shown up poorly for our partners or our friends or the world, when we are willing to be take a really honest look back at what what happened. Why did we show up that way? We can trace our behavior back to our sense of mattering and our sense of connection, which I think is kind of awesome, because it really can simplify things, right? But here's the deal, it's about our perceptions, about whether or not we matter or are connected, and our perception is clouded by our own experiences, judgments and beliefs, right? No one is walking around with a super clear, objective lens to see through. Many people do a lot of work, hard work, lifelong work to get as much clarity as possible on that lens, and they're still influenced by their own life experience. So yeah, for better or worse, we have clouded lenses that we see the world out of. And our kids, well, listen, they have even more limited life experience to see the world out of, for better or worse, right? I think on some levels, you know, their lenses might be, on some levels, more clear than our lenses, especially if you're, you know, like me, 47 that's a lot of beliefs and conditioning and experiences to, you know, to be influencing my lens. So, good, bad, all the things, right? But what we all have in common is that our lens is unique to us, right? We all have our own unique lenses. When we start to embrace the positive discipline philosophy in our parenting and our human being, the practice is to remember that whatever we do, we want our kids to feel more connected, more seen and heard as the result. So again, this question was, does my child feel a sense of belonging and significance? Does my child feel connected and like they matter? That first question again was, is this kind and firm? So we're looking at that the overarching. Question of, is this positive discipline? Am I using positive discipline? And we're deconstructing what it means to be you know what positive discipline looks like? Okay, number three of the five criteria for positive discipline, is it effective in the long term. So this is a big one. I love this question. I often ask myself this question when I'm thinking about my kids, and it's a big one. And I think that this question is, what can make positive discipline a tough sell, and positive parenting in general. I think this question is where partners kind of can get heated, because one partner might feel really strongly about this style of parenting while the other partner isn't seeing the results quick enough, and so they begin to question if it's the most effective way to parent the Children. Yeah, we're in it for the long run, friends, we are in it for the long run. It's a marathon, not a sprint. And that requires us to trust the process, and we have to trust the process over time, right? Trusting the process is one of those things that's like believing in something you can't really see, right?
I think a lot of us think we can make our kids have the values, manners, social skills that we want them to have. We feel like we are we are giving these things to our kids, and boy, do we try hard to drill it in, lectures, threats, you better be good. I want to see good manners, bribes, right? Like, if you're really good, when we're at Nana and grandpa's house, you know, we'll stop for ice cream on the way home. Come on, show them. You know, good manners and you know, let's be real. We've all been there. Maybe the examples I used aren't how you sound, but we've all been there. We've all been there trying to bestow and stuff in the values and the manners and the social skills we want our kids to have. And sometimes, you know, there might be a few things here and there that sink in, but really, it's important to remember that our kids learn through experience over time, right? Our kids learn through experience. That's how they develop values, that's how they choose into their you know, the long term effects of how they want to be and show up in the world. Short term parenting is when we do things that stop the behavior temporarily for the time being, right? So short term parenting leads us to do things that ultimately may tear into the relationship that we're trying to nurture with our kids, and it also robs them, often robs them of the valuable experience of natural consequences and coming to their own conclusions. They only develop a strong internal compass when they have the opportunity to develop it. Now caveat, you know, you don't let your young child run into the street and hope that the natural consequence of getting hit will teach them right when safety is being you know when, when it's about being safe, you step in and you do what you need to do, right? But a lot of us, many of us parents, are stepping in too soon, we're stepping in, and we're getting in the way of our kids really developing their own internal guidance system, because we're afraid, because we're worried that they won't learn the lesson. We're worried that they'll feel uncomfortable, or, you know, even humiliated or embarrassed. And guess what? Humiliation and embarrassment like those things are really powerful teachers, much more powerful than us saying, Well, if you do that, people might, you know, laugh at you or or might, you know, have something to say, right? Not that we don't ever offer guidance or advice, but I will tell you, and you've heard me say it before. Ask permission. Ask your kids if they want to know what you think before delivering what you think over and over again, right? So is what we're doing effective in the long term? If the answer is yes, then yeah, whatever it is fits underneath positive discipline, right? If it's effective in the long term, if it's kind and firm at the same time, if it's helping your child feel a sense of belonging and significance, things are looking good. Criteria number four is what we're doing, teaching valuable social and life skills for good care. Her right? We all want our kids to have good character. We want them to show respect for others and themselves. We want them to have concern for others, be problem solvers, be accountable, make contributions, cooperation, all the things right. Positive Discipline is both an all the time vibe as well as an in the moment practice. So we're not just using positive discipline when things are going sideways, like it's really an outfit to put on and to wear throughout the day, right? We wear it throughout the day the all the time. Vibe shows up because we are celebrating mistakes when they're made. Our own and our kids, we're focusing on finding solutions, right? We're curious. We're modeling compassion and care for others and their experiences. This is just what we do in our family, right? So the all the time vibe really comes back to this. Is this is our operating system. This is what we do in our family. This is how we show up for each other. The expectation is that we contribute, we own our own stuff, right? And we work together, not just some of the time, but most of the time. And I only say most of the time, because if I say all of the time, I would be painting a picture that is inaccurate. Because even when we're doing all the things, this parenting ride is super messy, right? It's messy even when we're super by the book, positive discipline parents, things go sideways. Things are hard. It's a long term process. We have to trust it. Our kids are still kids, and they need to make mistakes so it is messy, and there is a culture of the family about how we show up, right? Our conversations highlight who we are, our actions, our actions, parent actions embody this idea that this is who we are, celebrate mistakes, focus on solutions, we model compassion and care for others and their experiences. This is just what we do. And then the in the moment, vibes show up when we again. Model our own self regulation. When we feel heated, right? You know, joyful courage is all about grit, and this is this definitely highlights the G growth, personal growth, right? Stepping into being a positive, disciplined parent is not just flipping a switch. In fact, it's like the opposite of that, because when you choose to show up a different way, you will be shown time and time again how deep your conditioning lives inside of you, right? So if you're not willing to do some deep personal growth work, then accessing the positive discipline vibe will be challenging because it's, it's not, it doesn't live at the surface. It's, it's a, it's a heart centered approach, right? And I wish, you know, well, I don't wish. I mean, I think that if it's being presented as, just say this, use these three steps, and everything's gonna be fine and easy. You're getting duped. People are lying to you. This is tough. This is personal growth and development. This is recognizing where your conditioning is being triggered and doing something about your conditioning, right? Because your kids are just doing their thing. They're just doing what they're here to do, stumbling through the experiences and the events of their life, trying to make sense of it, trying to make sense of you who was fine until a minute ago, and then all of a sudden you got all crazy, right? Growth, personal growth on the parenting journey. You know that I'm down with that, right? So in the moment, we model our own self regulation when we're feeling heated, we take accountability when we're hurtful, and make things right. We find solutions to problems that are all about fixing mistakes and having a plan for the next time we are confronted by the problem. Okay, that's really what it's about. That's how we teach valuable social and life skills. And by the way, positive discipline, discipline, that word has a very bad rap, right? Everybody thinks, Well, not everybody, but a lot of people still think that discipline means punish. Well, you got to discipline that kid, right? No, no, no, no, that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about teaching discipline is teaching our kids. Giving them a structure, giving them a container, letting them feel seen and heard and cared about, even when we're like, oh my God, why is this a thing for you? Rein that in and find some deeper validation, so that that child in front of you can express themselves in a way that isn't going to lead them, you know, to needing to heal their trauma as adults, because you show up, right? I mean, isn't that a great goal? Think about all, I mean, myself included. There's so many of us with various degrees of trauma because of our upbringing. Imagine if what would happen to the state of the world and politics if there was a generation of kids who were raised in a way that didn't leave them with wounds to heal as adults? I know that's a big ask, and I just kind of went on a tangent, but it's kind of huge, right? So are we teaching valuable social and life skills? Is what we're doing effective in the long term? Are we helping our child feel a sense of belonging and significance? Are we being kind and firm at the same time? Number five, number five on the criteria for positive discipline is
our are we inviting our child to discover how capable there they are and use their personal power in constructive ways? Is what we're doing, inviting our kids to discover how capable they are and how to use their personal power in constructive ways. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. PD, at its best, allows our kids to hold the energetic responsibility of designing their life. It allows our kids to recognize they have power over their experience, and that that power is always available to them. Yeah, does that make sense? Now, of course, this looks different for a toddler than it does for a teen, and different in the middle there with our school age kids, but really, we're always moving to that place, and I even had a conversation with my son today. So I was on a long walk with my son, which was lovely. I was so happy when he said yes, when I asked him if he wanted to take a walk. And we were just talking about stuff, and we were talking he was asking me questions about college and my process of, you know, where did I want to go and what was it like to start. And I was sharing with him, Go U of A bear down Wildcats. I was sharing about my experience. And we were talking about, you know, I was 17 when I left for college. I turned 18 halfway through September, and school started in August. For me, my son will be 18, turning 19, in October of his first year of college, if he doesn't do like a gap year. And we started talking about that, and how, you know a gap year is, I was just saying, like, you know, I think that's so powerful, because you get the opportunity to have some life experience, and you show up to college with a lot more emotional maturity. And I think that I mean, how many of us were emotionally mature at the start of college? Not me, maybe you, but not me. And I think there's a lot of kids that go off to school who don't have the capability of navigating the buffet of distraction, we'll call it that that is presented, right? And I also think a lot of our kids, you know, move through the teen years, and we parents are have kind of a hard time with handing over that energetic responsibility and trusting them to be in the design of their life. Now, if you guys, you know, those of you that aren't new to the show, know that I have had this tested over and over with my daughter, right? She pretty much ripped the energetic responsibility out of my arms and said, nope, nope, I'm going to do it differently. And you know, well, there's a huge gift in being on the other side of that experience, right? Because I can be looking back at it, and I'm not in it, but the gift of that experience is that she has really come to this place of deeply understanding that it's she has the energetic responsibility of designing her. Life, it's up to her, right? She gets to create her experience, or not that she gets to create the experience, but she definitely has power over how she's experiencing her experiences, and that, you know, because of the support she's gotten over time and the you know, and what she's been through, she it continues to be confirmed again and again and again that that power of designing her life is always available to her. And that is really cool, right? That's where we want to get to. It's a long timeline, people, right? It's a long timeline, and it's just this, you know, I think I talked on another podcast, my friend Jeanette was talking about this spiral. So we it's like we keep having these same experiences again and again and again. But if we are committed to the work of positive discipline, if we're committed to our own personal growth, if we're committed at holding relationship as sacred and practicing these tools, then every time we meet that same challenge again and again and again, we're going to navigate it differently, and it's going to feel different. It's going to influence us differently. It may even have a different outcome eventually. So I really like that visual, right? Because, you know, life is linear and it's cyclical, both and and it can be maddening until we get some space and can be looking back to me the biggest part of positive discipline, the part that served me the most is recognizing that this isn't a formula or a gimmick. It isn't about tricking our kids into doing what we want, and that I think a lot of people come into this work thinking that's what they're gonna get. And either they're really jazzed to realize like, Oh, this is bigger than that, or they're kind of annoyed, because the requirement of personal growth isn't always exciting for everyone. This work is about being in real relationship with our kids and our partners and the world, in a relationship that is open and honest and transparent. When we don't know what to do, we get to say, Wow, I'm not really sure what to do here. I'm not really sure in this moment how to navigate this, right? Keeping it real when we're scared. We can say, like, you know what, babe, I'm really worried right now, and I need to go sit with this, right? We can be transparent when we're really mad. We can say, Whoa, I am feeling a lot of anger. I'm experiencing some anger right now, so I'm gonna go take some time so that we can keep this conversation going without me. You know, totally flipping out. We get to be transparent. We let our kids into our experiences, not because we are blaming them or looking for them to fix how we feel, but because healthy human beings are expressive and share what's going on with them, right? Healthy human beings are expressive and share what's going on with them. And when we find ourselves in a relationship that feels frayed or fragile or even, you know, broken, we get to be really transparent there too. And the first place we get to be transparent is with ourselves, so turning inward and asking, have I been showing up in a way that's been hurtful to my child? Have I been overly controlling or critical? Have I been dismissive? And if the answer is yes, then I have something to take accountability for. I get to step into the relationship and say I know that I've been hurtful or I'm guessing it hasn't felt very good for me to be telling you you know all the things that you're doing wrong, or I know that I haven't really been taking you seriously when you've been trying to talk to me about what's going on at school, right? We get to open the conversation. We get to open the conversation. And honestly, I promise you, if you are in a situation where the relationship you have with your child needs work, I'm sure there is something there for you to own. And if you want to challenge me on that, then I am here to say, dig deeper, my friend. You're the adult, and your child is always responding to you, right? So there might be some things for us to clean up so that we can build back that relationship. All right?
That was a lot, yeah, so just. To summarize the five criteria for positive discipline. So answering that question, is this positive discipline? I'm not really sure what to do. We can be guided by these questions, is it kind and firm at the same time? Is it helping your child feel a sense of belonging and significance? Is it effective in the long term? Are you teaching valuable social and life skills for good character. Are you inviting your child to discover how capable they are and to use their personal power in constructive ways? If the answer is yes to all of these questions, and you are golden, you are practicing positive discipline. If not, then the good news is, okay, great. So if this isn't what I'm doing isn't kind and firm. What can I how can I tweak it right? If this isn't going to be effective in the long term, what would be right? And just asking those questions is moving you in the direction that you need to be going. All right. Thank you again to Jane Nelson for all of her work and wisdom that we all, all of us, positive discipline educators and trainers get to share with the world. Thank you so much. See you next week.
Thank you for being here. Thanks again for listening. If you liked what you heard today, please share it. Screenshot the show. Plaster it all over your social media, so that other parents know you find value in this and they'll be more interested in checking it out. If you really want to earn that gold star, head to Apple podcasts and leave a five star review. This does so much for us. It increases our exposure. It's a really great way to give back to the show. Thank you to my team at sproutable for all the support. Thank you, Chris Mann and the team at pod shaper for keeping the show sounding so good. And you listener, as I like to tell you every week, thank you for continuing to show up. This is hard work. We're all doing it. We're all in it, rolling around. I encourage you in this moment, no matter what it is that you're going through, I encourage you in this moment to take a deep, nourishing inhale, filling up your body, holding it, and then letting that breath go with it, all the tension, all the worry, all the fear, and I encourage you in this moment, even if it's just this moment, I encourage you to trust that everything's gonna be okay. I'm so grateful to have spent this time with you today. I will see you soon. Bye.
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