Eps 182: Finding Your Family’s Rhythm with Meagan Wilson

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Casey O'Roarty 0:04
Hey, what is up podcast, listeners, I am so glad that you have found yourself at the joyful courage podcast. This is a place where we celebrate real and raw conversations about raising kids with conscious parenting and positive discipline. I'm your host. Casey o'rourdy, I'm a facilitator. I'm a parent coach. Most importantly, I am a mom of two teenagers, and I am walking the path of more mindful, intentional parenting right alongside of you. Please know that this podcast is created for you. I create it for you and for our community. And if you love it, feel free to share it with all of your family and friends over social media. Let's spread the word. Let's get as many people as possible listening to this show. Please write a review on Apple's podcast, formerly known as iTunes, and join the Patreon community, where parents, just like you are contributing just a small little amount each month to the show and enjoying perks like monthly webinars and community conversations about the content you hear on this podcast. Check the show notes for links and more details on all of that. I am so, so grateful that you are here and now enjoy the show. Hi, listeners. My guest today is Megan Wilson. Megan is the founder of Whole family rhythms, and she is living out her mission of helping other mothers, caregivers and educators to create more clarity and balance within the home. Megan's website and seasonal guides provide support, information and resources on conscious parenting inspired by the Earth, the seasons and each family's own unique values. Together, a community of over 25,000 like minded mothers and educators gather each day on her Instagram feed to discuss parenting with love, connection and rhythm. Hi, Megan, welcome to the podcast.

Meagan Wilson 2:04
Hello. Thank you so much for having me.

Casey O'Roarty 2:06
You are welcome. Please let the listeners know more about you and how you have found yourself doing what you do, sure.

Meagan Wilson 2:14
So yeah, I have four children, and they are now 10, eight, five and a half and four. And when my first child was born, I started kind of researching alternative parenting methods, we could say, and I came across Waldorf education and brought him to a little parent and child class when he was about two. And I just fell in love with that philosophy. And from there, I began studying Waldorf, early childhood education. I was in Australia at the time because my husband's Australian, and all my kids were born in Australia, and I did those studies. And then, you know, I kept having babies, so I didn't do any work with I didn't work in a school per se, but when my I was pregnant with my third, I had this huge surge of creative energy and inspiration, and I had been working really hard on creating this Like flow and family rhythm within our home with two young children at the time, and I decided to kind of share that concept. And so I created the seasonal guides that are now, you know, they're hugely popular. They're available for both hemispheres, because the seasons are obviously opposite. And yeah, that's where my business was born, and that's where my passion has been for, you know, almost 10 years now, and I love what I do. It's, it's so I'm so grateful for the work that I do, because every day I wake up, and I have, you know, often, especially the past few months, a lot to do, but I feel so excited and passionate about it and helping families around the world to find this kind of rhythm within their homes and a rhythm that's inspired by their own unique values, instead of what other people might be saying that they should be doing.

Casey O'Roarty 4:19
Yeah, I have a lot of clients, even just this morning, talking to a client about things feeling chaotic and looking for, I think flow and rhythm like it, just even as I say that I kind of rock back and forth. And, you know, find that kind of Zen mindfulness place. Will you talk a little bit about what living with the rhythms of the earth and the seasons like, what does that mean to you? How do you present that to parents?

Meagan Wilson 4:48
So it's really just about observing what's going on outside and connecting with nature as often as possible, so that we. You know, when we celebrate a festival that's unique to our family culture, you know, we look at, you know, how is that festival? How is it represented in what's happening around the world at that time? So, you know, for example, Easter is coming up, and we have these symbols, these beautiful symbols of rebirth, like the egg. And, you know, some people grow Easter grass, which is like this kind of spring brand new grass that's coming through. So there's this reflection between these human ways that we celebrate with each other and we connect with each other, and what's happening in nature and the rhythm part is creating these traditions within our family that then repeat year after year, season after season.

Casey O'Roarty 5:46
So what does that look Can I ask? What does that look like at your house like? What does Easter look like at your house? Sure. Yeah.

Meagan Wilson 5:53
So right now, I mean, even if we put Easter a little bit to the side because it's a month, but right now, today, our children are on spring what you guys call spring break, and what do you call a March Break?

Unknown Speaker 6:08
Got it. Got it.

Meagan Wilson 6:11
So we decided we'd go for a big nature walk. And we live on a it's about a 10 acre farm now, but we have lived in the city for most of my children's lives, and we've just done this big kind of uproot into a rural area which is so beautiful, it has its positives and negatives. But so we decided to go for a big walk today and just be and so we walked through the forest. We found a little trail, and we observed what was happening. We could hear the birds singing. You know, there's a lot of snow melting and water flowing into rivers, and that's kind of the beginning. That's something that we have always done. We go on these walks with our children since they were really young, and they were just in carriers, and that's how I think that they really experience what's happening in the outer world and the changes, and they can feel and see and smell these changes that are happening. And then within the home, when we're celebrating, you know, a festival like Easter, we are not particularly religious. I would, I would describe us as spiritual, so we don't go to church, and we don't, you know, really read the Bible even. But both my husband and I were given this kind of Christian we have this Christian ancestry, so we do celebrate the Christian festivals in our own unique way. So at Easter time, we will have family over. We'll gather together, you know? We'll say a blessing, like something, thanking the earth for our food. We'll have decorations. We usually paint easter eggs, up to a couple weeks before that, the kids are so excited about the painting the easter eggs and doing those crafts that I have to kind of hold them off for a little bit, and we plant wheat grass. So if you go to a health food store and you buy wheat, like the actual kernels, and you soak it for a few days, it will sprout. And if you plant that in some soil, it actually sprouts up into that beautiful lash wheat grass that you would see at, like a juice shop. And we plant that in kind of shallow bowls, and we have that on display on our table with maybe a couple decorated eggs. And you know, a few things that might mark that start of spring, some moss that we found outside a bird's feather, whatever it is. So it's just really looking at for us. It's looking at what's going on outside and giving thanks for it. You know, we're also preparing our garden around this time we're just about to start, you know, pulling out our seeds and starting to sprout the seeds inside before we transplant them into the garden. So, you know, for us, this is actually like a spiritual kind of like Reverend experience, if we intentionally connect with what we're doing. I

Casey O'Roarty 9:15
love that, and I hear just in the way that you talk about the detail that the celebration includes, I hear some value around connection, connection to each other, connection to the earth. I hear, I hear family values showing up simply in the way that you are choosing into celebrating this time of year. So how do family values? I know that's another part of your work and something that you support parents with, and it's also something that I support parents with, because, you know, it's all well and good to have your you know, to have your values. I think it's a lot different when you. Decide, not a lot different, but even more intentional. When you decide, okay, you know what? I'm actually gonna write those values out. It's another step when we come together with our partners and say, like, let's talk about our values. And then there's, you know, that final step of living, actively living into our family values and and weaving it into the fabric of the way that we hold space in our family. So, yeah, talk a little bit about rhythms and values in the in the home. What do you how do you speak into that with the people that you work with?

Meagan Wilson 10:36
Yeah, so I so very often start everything with connecting to your family values. You know, I feel like it's the foundation of everything else. Because, you know, sometimes parents come to me with questions about, you know, the way that they're holding boundaries for their children. And I really feel that if you feel really strongly and you're connected with the reason why you might be holding that boundary, which usually you know has to do with your values, your family values, then you can hold the boundary much easier. And so I do advise parents to first, just in this, you know, very dreamy journaling, you know, just writing everything down, every word that you can imagine that's really important to you guys. It could be like phrases, or it could be specific words, you know, like you could write down gratitude, reverence, or you could write down, you know, going, getting outside every day, you know, whatever just comes to your mind, write it all down, and then start looking at your daily rhythm and see how your daily and your weekly life lines up with those values. And you'll also begin to see when there's, you know, something not quite working. Well, maybe it's not really, truly aligned with our values, and that's why it's not working. And so even something as simple as an extracurricular activity, that's, you know, you feel like it's such a drag to get there. Your children are complaining about it. And, you know, you're wondering, why are we even doing this? Why do we take them to this sport, for example, and, you know, go through all the motions, and maybe the children aren't totally enjoying it, and you're having to, you know, make all these sacrifices to get them there. And it's like, okay, let's sit down with our partner and talk about, you know, what the vision was when we signed up for the extracurricular. And maybe the extracurricular needs to change, or a perspective needs to change, or whatever it is, you know, it always comes back to this value. And I also feel like

connecting with your family values is this parenting partner exercise. So you know, for most people, it will be the husband and wife dynamic, but very often, or wife, wife, husband, husband, whatever it is, but often it's, you know, parents and grandparents that take care of the kids once a week, or it's the parents and a caregiver, like a nanny, or, you know someone like that, where you really should, I think, take an opportunity to connect adult to adult and discuss what those family values are, because you are all parenting together. Yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 13:34
yeah. And I'm just thinking about those parents that perhaps are choosing into what looks like an alternative parenting philosophy to the, you know, the older generation, the grandparents. And I imagine that. And you know, our parents love to give us their opinion. And I imagine that when we're really solid in our values, and when our Why is grounded in our values, it becomes a lot easier to navigate those conversations with our parents around. Well, I'm choosing into this not because, you know, I'm just weird or I remember I chose to, you know, use a midwife and a birth center for the birth of my daughter, my first child, and my mom was very much like, What are you even talking about right now? But I knew that I wanted her to be there, and so I sent her, I sent her the Bradley child birth book, and I said, I want you to come. You have to read this. And then she proceeded to stay with us for the week after the baby was born. And I feel like in that week, she got to know me and my husband in this in such a deeper level. And I feel like her opinion of my choices went from I don't understand. This is weird to Oh, my daughter is actually making informed choices that are a part of what you know, that are connected to to what it is that she values. And granted there was some overlap and some non overlap, but it it, it allowed space for my mom to respect the choices that I was making, not because, simply because I'm her daughter, which should be enough, but also because, like, Oh, you have a why? Like, you have a foundation. This isn't just, you know, an extension of that teen brain, not that I was a teenager, but, you know, I think it's, I imagine. I don't have grown kids yet, but I can't imagine that we ever grow out of that. Feeling like I might know better than you, I'm gonna work really hard to grow out of that. But yeah, does that make sense? Oh

Meagan Wilson 15:54
yeah, definitely. I feel like it simply put, it's this idea of being really authentic in yourself and having taken the time to know you know why you feel the way that you do about certain aspects of your life and your family rhythm and the way that you are with your children, and that the more time that you take to really center yourself in your why, like you said, the more authentic you are. And then, you know, as you said, your mom understood that she, like, really sensed it spending some time with you and your husband, yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 16:31
yeah, it was good stuff. So, and I think this is, you know, something, I've started to work more and more with families of teenagers, and when talking about toddlers and preschoolers and even school aged kids, we talk a lot about routines and routines being, you know, really proactive work that we can do to just bring more peace into the home, specifically around times of day that maybe the rhythm or the flow feels off and there's some chaoticness going on. I think the same is true when we have, you know, older kids, teenagers. I think absolutely there are areas where we can co create routines with them that support in the ways that they contribute to the home, or, you know, use screens or just fill in the blank. Why? How do you talk about routines with the people that you work with? And are they something that you know? Because I think about, yes, the larger rhythm and flow of being in connection with you know, what's happening in the external environment, in the in nature and seasonally, but also simply, like how it looks, what our morning looks like, what bedtime looks like. How do you talk about routines?

Meagan Wilson 17:48
Yeah, so with with the younger children, which is often who I am talking about, and I'm talking with to parents with children kind of up to the age of seven. It is this almost hour by hour routine. And the reason why we call it a rhythm is because the times might change depending on what's happening that day, but generally the order of events is still the same. So it's this flow in Waldorf, we often describe it as this, in breath, out breath, and they they use the same philosophy all the way up through high school, this concept of having an in breath moment and an out breath moment, so a moment of introspection, a moment of quiet with young children, that's often a time where their teachers or their parents are leading them through an activity, or It's a rest time, or it's even a meal time, and then there's this out breath, which is this huge expansion. And for young children, it's free play. You know, they're they can play freely outside or inside and direct themselves, whereas older children, it might be, you know, more of a sport or something a little bit more competitive, or a debate, or, I don't even know, I don't, I don't have teenagers yet, but I'm, I'm imagining, well,

Casey O'Roarty 19:10
one day,

Meagan Wilson 19:10
I know, but yeah, so there's this contraction and expansion throughout the day, and you Know, you touched on teenagers, but I think also as carers and parents, just as human beings, we need these in breaths and out breaths and this constant rhythm and these rituals too. So I'd say that our day is structured where, you know, we wake up around the same time, then we usually have a breakfast, then we, you know, get ready to go out to school, or if we're homeschooling, stay at home, or whatever it is, and every day is the same, except maybe there are like these slight variances depending on the day of the week that would be ideal for a child in early childhood, because then they because they're. Concept their understanding of time is they just really, don't really have a great grasp and understanding of how time flows. It's so comforting for them, and it helps them to feel so secure knowing what the rhythm or the day is going to present based on what happened the day before and the day before and every day is, you know, very, very similar, especially, you know, bedtime routines, for example, you know, it's like every day, we have dinner, we go upstairs and have a bath, we read a book, and then we say, Good night. You know, it's, it's the same thing every day. And the truth is that that is so important for adults too, but we kind of try and escape from that natural rhythm, and, you know, play with that. But I know for myself if I go to bed at the same time every night, and I, you know, I have this whole ritual of, when the kids are down, I go and I make my chamomile tea, and I come upstairs, and I might look at my phone for a bit and read a book, and, you know, my lights are out by 915 I feel so good after a couple weeks of really sticking to that, and when things get thrown it really affects me.

Casey O'Roarty 21:12
Joyful courage, fans and followers, I am so excited. I'm so excited that I had to interrupt this fantastic interview to say tomorrow, pre sale starts. Pre sale of my book, joyful courage, calming the drama and taking control of your parenting journey starts tomorrow. Yes, yes, yes, yes. And presale. If you get in on the presale of the book, you also will be gifted a companion guide, a PDF companion guide that you can download right away and use once you get the book to deepen the learning for yourself, to really dig in, explore what's true for you, reflect, get really connected with the content of the book, and just create learning that makes a huge difference in your life. So I'm super stoked. You can go on over to the website, joyful courage.com/book, right now, and you'll see advanced praise for the book. So I had all the people that I love, all of my mentors, read the book and give me some feedback, and it's been amazing. So you can check that out. Also, you're going to want that link when the pre sale goes live tomorrow, which is April 10, and you can buy the book straight from there. Okay, and there'll be instructions there too to support you in knowing how to get your hands on your companion guide. So, yeah, it's happening. Thank you so much for all of your support and joy and celebration along the way. This has been a labor of love, and I can't wait to share it with you. Yeah? Well, it's interesting, you know. And I know I was just talking to somebody about this. So, you know, you get to a point when your kids get older where their biological clock starts to shift a little bit, and they stay so right now, like that, what you just described for your evening sounds so dreamy. And I've got one kid that's up till like 10, 3011, o'clock. It is so challenging for me to wind down,

Meagan Wilson 23:46
yeah, yeah. And you don't want to just Yeah, wild. I can't imagine. I'm really interested in waking up at 530 Yeah,

Speaker 1 23:55
where I remember, I remember.

Casey O'Roarty 23:59
And so, I love that, and I really appreciate you touching on how important routines are for us. And I, I think that that safety piece, I mean, there's a reason why early childhood classrooms have the schedule. And even elementary school classrooms, they put up the schedule because there is safety for and not all kids. You know, I think it varies how important that is. I think all kids thrive under consistency, and I think some kids really require that consistency, whose temperaments maybe are less easy going. So thank you for that. Do you use any visuals or tools to support your kids and knowing what the rhythm is, yeah, yeah.

Meagan Wilson 24:45
So at home, we, I, we don't use them as much anymore because my children are getting that little bit older, yeah. But we do have these actually on the website, these printables, daily printables, where you can choose what your. Uh, theme of the day is, so it might be grandma day on Mondays. And there's this little card with a picture of a grandma, and we put it up either in a little holder where it just stands up and you can laminate them. Or a lot of people put them in there on their fridge, in order, you know, seven of them and one of them, or, you know, some people make it as simple as for five school days, there's just a picture of a knapsack, and then there might be a picture of the family for Saturday, and then a picture of the garden on Sunday, if you do gardening together on Sunday, or whatever it is. And just kind of assigning a very simple theme. It could be, you know, grocery shopping or going to the market on Sundays, whatever it is where you can find that there is, like a very, pretty consistent rhythm, and you do that every week, and that signals to them. It signals to them that that that particular activity is going to happen. But they also have this kind of location, that the memory that they do have is this location memory. And so if they can, if they know, okay, I'm going to Grandma's house today, they can kind of remember, you know, they remember grandma's house, and they remember, you know, what usually happens before we go to grandma's house and what usually happens afterwards. So that's enough to give them all of that security, those visuals we have played with the same concept with those little visuals up for little bit of family chores. At times, when I've I've been wanting to get them into a rhythm, or maybe change our rhythm up. Then I'll put some visuals up to indicate, okay, we're gonna get up, we're gonna get dressed, brush our hair, and make our beds. But once that really just becomes a part of our daily rhythm, and, you know, it's just in their bodies, we don't really use the visuals anymore, because it's just our daily habit.

Casey O'Roarty 26:51
I love that. And I can imagine, you know, I'm still, I love visuals for myself, for you know, I mean, it's interesting. I've been using I'm a positive discipline trainer, and we talk about routines, and have created routine charts, not charts, but like posters of the kids actually doing the things and and how they've evolved over time. I remember my daughter, I think she was in fourth grade, and she finally just said, I am not putting pictures of myself on a poster, mom, like that's I'm not a baby anymore. And so we figured out, like she created this whole after school thing where, you know, the hours between getting home from school and going to bed were broken down. And you know, if I said, Well, you got to take a shower twice, at least twice a week. So here's two little shower tickets. And she used Velcro. And so she decided which days of the week that would happen. And okay, we're going to practice the piano at least three times. When do you want to do it? And so taking the concept of the visual that you're talking about, and as they grow older, you know, slowly handing over that control, because that's like the story of parenting, right? The slow handover of control. But it was really supportive,

Meagan Wilson 28:16
yeah, and those tickets really work. They do like the kids love them because, well, it's like a two way street, like it's something visual for them to connect with. And they, they feel like they're taking charge of their own rhythm. And then I think they really do, you know, unconsciously appreciate that. Then you're not always nagging and nagging, you know, they they know that that's now their responsibility and that you can also let go as the parent. To a certain extent. I've definitely experienced that more with my older children, but I did observe in a Waldorf kindergarten recently that the teacher has, I'm trying to think of what she it was like a little almost necklace with like, just a tiny drawing of a job for cleanup time. And each child had a specific job for maybe like that term at cleanup time, because they really kind of uproot the entire classroom in their hour and a half free play. And then when it was time to clean up, she sang a song which was this like audio cue that it was time to clean up, and the teachers also always helped to tidy up, because then it's because young children, you know, imitation is so important for them. But she also gave them this little like visual necklace, which was a reminder that, you know, that was their task, and they had the same task every day for her that was really important. I've seen other teachers. You know, everyone can tidy up what they want, and the teachers might assign people different tasks, but she really felt strongly that having that same task every day was going to help that tidy up rhythm a lot. So yeah, I think visual cues, no matter what they are, are always very helpful. Yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 30:00
yeah, and I, and I really appreciate the word helpful, right? Because we're still living with loving teaching little human beings who have been gifted free will, and it's messy, and sometimes, you know, sometimes they have different ideas than the rhythm that is currently being presented. And I know that you write and speak about being a loving authority.

And I would love to hear from you what that means.

Meagan Wilson 30:33
Yeah, so I explain to people often, and I got this from Kim John Payne, who's the author of simplicity parenting, just so I don't claim it quite as my own, but he explains being a loving authority, as if you really connect, because people often kind of go, oh, I don't know authority. It sounds like very dominant and domineering, and you know, like you're lording over your child. But he explains it as being the author of the boundaries that you're holding. So if you can imagine that, you know you're creating this kind of bubble that is keeping your child safe and teaching your child, you know how we behave socially and emotionally in the world, you know, and most of the time that's just modeling it yourself, like having the inner wisdom and inner knowing to model the behavior that you desire for your children. But sometimes it might look like, you know, if you're really holding a boundary, you know, allowing natural consequences to happen. And I'm, I'm even wary about this idea of natural consequences, because I think sometimes they can be skewed, and they're not quite so natural.

Casey O'Roarty 31:53
Oh yeah, I'm with you, yes. Well, just call it that. And ultimately, it's like, no if you're doing anything, it is no longer a natural consequence.

Meagan Wilson 32:07
There is this, this idea, but an example that comes to mind was my daughter was in kindergarten, and she had just started, and her they were transitioning from inside to outside, and she really did not want to put her rain pants and her snow pants. It was probably her snow pants on because we had just moved from Australia, so it was like a new sensory thing that was just too much for her. And you know, the teachers had to hold the boundary that all children must wear their snow pants and their rain pants outside, because it is absolutely wet and muddy, and she would have been soaked within 30 seconds, plus there probably would have been a revolt from all the other children. One of them was able to go outside. So they they didn't scold her. They didn't, you know, lecture her at all, especially in early childhood. You know, they try to avoid using a lot of words. They just said, you know, it's time to go outside. We wear our snow pants outside, and you may help Miss Leah in the classroom while she's cleaning up until you're ready to get your snow pants on. And it was simple as that, and she, you know, they're lucky because they have these more than one teacher on, so they had the ability to then redirect her. And that day, she did help in the kitchen, and she didn't go outside. And for me as a parent, hearing about that, I was like, Oh, that was like, almost a consequence. Like that was a punishment, in a way, but I spoke to her teacher about it, and I was like, and her teacher explained, and I was like, You know what? That's right, that's holding the loving boundary. That's their boundary, and they did it in the most loving and respectful way. It wasn't, they didn't treat it as a punishment. And she learned, like, very naturally. The next day, she went outside with her snow pants because she wanted to be with her friends. So that is, you know, that's loving boundaries in a nutshell. And I think when they get slippery or they're not working, it's because, again, like as carers, we don't have that inner conviction to hold the boundary. We're not sure why we're holding it. An example might be like snacks right before dinner. If you let your kids have snacks before dinner, and then every night, you kind of regret it. It's, you know, you might be having this waffling inner dialog in yourself, like, oh, but they're hungry. Yeah, exactly I

Casey O'Roarty 34:38
was gonna say, avoid the melt like it's easier to just say yes and yeah, yes,

Meagan Wilson 34:43
exactly. And so they, you know, they sense our inner waffling, and there's no right or wrong answer really, you know, I kind of, I think there was a time when my children were so young that they really just had what some people would probably call more of a snack and then didn't have dinner like it. Was like a 430 4:45pm, dinner that was more just like raw vegetables and scrambled egg or whatever it was, because that was my way to deal with it. But the point is, you just have to get really clear in your head about what boundary you're going to set and hold and what boundaries you know you're not going to have, instead of this kind of back and forth, because that's what's challenging for parents and also challenging for children. Yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 35:27
we talk about parenting styles in positive discipline, and we kind of do this whole activity where, and it's on the in the context of kindness and firmness and that overly kind parent we would label as permissive, the overly firm parent as authoritarian, and then that kind and firm parent, which I believe fits underneath loving authority being authoritative. And I remember I was like, God, it's annoying to me that authoritative and authoritarian are so close, like the actual makeup of the word, and so I wanted to find out, like, what was that beginning of the word all about? And that author the beginning of the word really is about leader, leadership. And I think that there are, you know, quote, authority figures that really lean on power, like holding power over and, you know, I'm the adult, you I'm the boss, I'm the man, I'm the fill in the blank, yeah? And then there's leaders who step into leadership as, yeah, I'm the leader, and I'm going to treat you with dignity and

Meagan Wilson 36:40
respect, that's right, yeah. And I totally feel like I'm very sensitive towards too, just like that. And I always look the etymology. Somebody went just recently said in a teaching workshop I was at, you know, they said, No, you know, I am the boss of the five, five year old. And it really didn't resonate with me, because the word boss feels so strong for me, and I did. I looked up the word boss and it was bass, which is Dutch for master, and of course, like, that's why it doesn't resonate with me, yeah, but I would have described it as, like, Yes, I am your leader, I am your teacher, I am your parent, I am your guide. You know, I would have just chosen different words. And maybe sometimes, like it's still we have the same meaning. But sometimes I feel that the word is important, that you connect with a word because it helps you to to do the job.

Casey O'Roarty 37:33
Yeah, well, and I think too, I have found and feel sometimes, or have early on. You know, when we choose into positive parenting, positive discipline, gentle, peaceful, whatever you want to label, this philosophy of parenting. There is this fear of authority, right? And so and so, there becomes this big swing into being permissive, and nothing that you're talking about here sounds permissive to me. It sounds really supportive. And that's the other thing that I like to talk about, because parents are always looking for what quote works. Well, what's going to work is that doesn't work. And I always invite them to shift a little bit and reframe that into, well, what's going to be helpful to your child? Because ultimately, that's what we're looking for, right? What's going to help them be at their best? What's going to help you be your best? And that's a totally different conversation. Yeah,

Meagan Wilson 38:35
absolutely.

Casey O'Roarty 38:36
Yeah. All right, well, Megan, thank you so much for coming on and talking to me about this. I'm so excited to get my own guides. I'm going to check out your website, look at your guides, and I just listening to you talk about Easter. We don't, we aren't church going either, and but I love the I love the seasonal celebrations. And I also was kind of raised under this more Christian dominant culture, and I just all, I love that you shared what your routine is around that, and I'm excited to incorporate some of it.

Meagan Wilson 39:12
Oh yeah, the Easter guide. I love the Easter guide too, because and all of my festival guides, because I go into the history of the tradition. Yes. And you know how it kind of these festivals. They're not just Yes, Christian, they're pagan. And no, there's so many cultures we're having. We have a new blog post coming up on no res. I think that's how you say it. It's It's Iranian New Year, and it's coming up on Thursday, and that one of the traditions that they have is decorating eggs. So yeah, so there are so many aspects of these festivals and these traditions that are universal, yeah, yeah. So that's why I think it's really important to. Connect with something higher than ourselves, even if we're not quite sure how to define it, or we don't want to adhere to a specific religion. And this is the way that I found where I can kind of find our universal spirituality and help model my connection to that. For my children,

Casey O'Roarty 40:19
love it. So in the context of you know, living with rhythm and flow in the home, what does joyful courage mean to you? Megan,

Meagan Wilson 40:33
joyful courage. So I actually, I cheated a little bit. I looked up the word joy because I was, I told you I really like looking at words. It led me to rejoice, which really made sense to me. Because when I first read what you thought, What's joyful courage, I thought, you know, it's courage to live in that moment. You know, really ground yourself in the present moment. And even if there is suffering around, even if your child is upset, and you're holding a space for that, you know you're really in the moment. And I think that the word rejoice kind of fits in there, because it's this sense of gratitude. It's gratitude for the present moment no matter what it's bringing us. So it might not always be this like very happy joy, but it's this sense of gratitude for the present moment and having the courage to try and connect with that as often as we can during the day. Thank

Casey O'Roarty 41:36
you. Love it. Please remind listeners where they can find you and follow your work. Yeah,

Meagan Wilson 41:43
absolutely. So you can head to whole family rhythms.com, actually, I made a specific landing page so it's whole family rhythms.com/joyful, courage. And I will add a few links to the journal entries that I mentioned and the Easter guide, and anything else that came up in our conversation, I'll put right there on the landing page for everyone

Casey O'Roarty 42:06
great and listeners. You know that that will be in the show notes as well Megan's website. Where are you on social media?

Meagan Wilson 42:13
At Whole family rhythms on Instagram is kind of where the big party is. And everybody connects really well there. And then I also have whole family rhythms on Facebook and family rhythms on Pinterest. Awesome.

Casey O'Roarty 42:27
Well, thank you so much for spending time with me today. I really appreciate it.

Meagan Wilson 42:32
So much for having me. I loved it.

Casey O'Roarty 42:38
Joyful, courage, community. Thank you so much for tuning in each and every week. Big thanks and love to my team, including my producer, Chris Mann at pod shaper. Be sure to join the discussion over at the live and love with joyful courage group page, as well as the joyful courage business pages on Facebook and Instagram. Subscribe to the show through Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google Play. I Heart Radio, really, anywhere you find your favorite podcasts. Also, I mentioned Patreon at the beginning of the show. Check it out. Www.patreon.com/joyful courage. This is where you can contribute to the show and take advantage of patron perks like content rich, monthly webinars and deeper discussions about what's being shared on the podcast. You will like it. Www. Dot P, A, T, R, E, O n.com/joyful. Courage. Any comments or feedback about this show or any others can be sent to Casey at joyful courage.com. I personally read and respond to all the emails that come my way, so reach out. You can also sign up for my bi weekly newsletter at joyful courage.com just go to the website. Sign up for that. Take a breath, drop into your body, find the balcony seat and trust that everyone is going to be okay. Big Love to each and every one of you have a beautiful rest of your day.

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