Eps 175: A candid conversation with my kids about screen time

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Casey O'Roarty 0:04
Hey, what is up podcast, listeners, I am so glad that you have found yourself at the joyful courage podcast. This is a place where we celebrate real and raw conversations about raising kids with conscious parenting and positive discipline. I'm your host. Casey o'rourdy, I'm a facilitator. I'm a parent coach. Most importantly, I am a mom of two teenagers, and I am walking the path of more mindful, intentional parenting right alongside of you. Please know that this podcast is created for you. I create it for you and for our community. And if you love it, feel free to share it with all of your family and friends over social media. Let's spread the word. Let's get as many people as possible listening to this show. Please write a review on Apple's podcast, formerly known as iTunes, and join the Patreon community, where parents, just like you are contributing just a small little amount each month to the show and enjoying perks like monthly webinars and community conversations about the content you hear on this podcast. Check the show notes for links and more details on all of that. I am so, so grateful that you are here and now. Enjoy the show. Hey, listeners, hello, welcome, welcome. Welcome to Episode One, seven to five, and I'm coming to you live from my closet. Today I'm going to talk about screens and technology, and it's technically a solo show. However, I have two really special guests that are going to join me later in this conversation. But before we get there, I have some exciting news to share. First of all, Lisa D Moore, author of untangled and the new book under pressure, confronting the epidemic of stress and anxiety in girls is coming on the podcast this spring. I'm super excited. It's a really big deal. You guys. I after I read untangled last year, loved it. Everyone with teen girls, pre teen girls needs to read that book more than once. I reached out, of course, I was like, Can she come on my podcast? And her people were like, she's kind of busy, so, you know, I didn't get to have her come on back then. And then I got a email last week from her publicist saying, Hey, there's this new book coming out by Lisa D'Amore. She'd love to come on your show. Oh my gosh. I mean, there's a lot of times where I get pitched people, when they're, you know, their publicists or their publishers reach out to me. A lot of times I'm reaching out to them, especially big people like Brene Brown and Dan Siegel, I'm really hustling on my end, and I get a lot of No, they're really busy. Sorry, not at this time. So it was really exciting to get that email. My other really exciting news is that my book has a launch date, pre sale for joyful courage, calming the drama and taking control of your parenting journey. Pre sale is April 10. Official launch date right now is may 20. So listen, if you are not yet on the newsletter list, jump in there to keep up with all of the book news and the incentives that I'm putting together. For those of you that choose into the pre sale, you can go to joyful courage.com/join. Joyful courage.com/join. And join my newsletter list. And when you join now, you get a cute little 10 steps to joyful courage download that's great for the refrigerator or any other place that you want to put a little a little cheat sheet up reminding you how to be in your best parenting self. So check it out. I have two new iTunes reviews that I'm going to share with you that were so sweet. From January. I got a five star review from Chris and Jess and they wrote, I found you through birds and bees and kids and as your podcast began, it was as if you were speaking from my own mothering journey. I feel as if you are another angel in my continuing journey. I found your podcast episode very insightful, informative and affirming. I am tuning in. Thank you, Chris and Jess and you all know how much I love Amy Lang from birds and bees and kids. Did you know that she started a podcast too? It's called just say this. Check it out on iTunes or where? Ever you are listening to podcasts because it's short and sweet and you know Amy, she's hilarious and super direct. The podcast also received another five star review earlier this month from Earth mama, Hey, Kate, I see you. I know this is from you. She wrote Casey is like my long lost sister that I've never met. Like minded is an understatement. When I was feeling down with my mothering, I searched positive discipline in podcasts and Eureka, joyful courage appeared like a bright star in the dark night. I eat this podcast up. I tell every parent I know about it, I find myself nodding while I listen as I do my housework, I feel like my hand is being held and I'm gently being led through this incredibly strategic yet unpredictable chess game of parenting. Do yourself a favor and soak in the wisdom that joyful courage so generously shares. Thank you, Casey, much love from the heartland. Thank you, earth, Mama. One day, one day, our paths will cross. I can't wait. Yes. Thank you to everyone that is jumping into iTunes and leaving reviews. This helps with my visibility. This helps I you know, iTunes, know, like, oh, people like this. So we're gonna suggest it. When people come on and look for parenting podcasts, and it feels really good to read and know that what I'm doing over here in my house matters to you. So thank you. Today's content, screens. Why? Why am I talking about screens? Well, it is coming up in the joyful courage parents of teens Facebook community. It's coming up in calls with clients. It's coming up in my own life and practice with my kids. And for certain, it's a big pain in the ass. We are all living with the screen dilemma. Actually, I'm gonna footnote that, because when I say all you know, I know that I have some listeners that are off the grid and homeschooling, and it just hasn't become an issue for you yet. Okay, so this particular episode is for those of us who you know are kind of more in the mainstream and screens are an issue. Today, I'm going to share and inquire from my own experience, not because I know the way or because I have it all figured out, but because I'm in it with you, and you're really going to hear that in a few minutes. Remember last April? For those of you that have been listening for a long time, last April, I had Dr Delaney runston on, and we talked about her documentary, screenagers. So screenagers is a film, and it is put out by, typically by community groups you can request different social community groups to get the the movie to come to your community and do community wide showings. And there's so many pearls of wisdom and research in that conversation with her. Feel free to listen or re listen. It was episode 140 I've also had, I also had a powerful conversation with one of my colleagues, who is also a positive discipline lead trainer, about this during the teen Summit, which is available to invest in through the end of the month at joyful courage.com/teen

Summit. She and I just spoke about her very real experience, as well as my own around navigating screens. And then, gosh, I don't even know when this episode came out. It was episode 82 I did a conversation. I had a conversation with Kim Mensch about parenting in the age of smartphones, right? We're always talking about this, especially as our kids get into middle and high school, it's not going anywhere. And some of the pain points that I'm hearing from the community and experiencing myself are around like, how do we set limits and boundaries? How much should we monitor? What do we do when our agreements are broken? You know, our kids can get really defensive. Some might say it's like trying to take drugs away from a drug addict, right? They get really worked up. We worry that the internet is forever and about the content that they're posting. We worry about, how are they going to develop real relationship skills when everything is over text or instant message or Snapchat? We worry about online and social media, bullying, sexting and nudes. How much is too much to be on their phone? Like just, you know what? What is too much? How to be the lone parent who waits to get their child a phone. And then, if we are doing that, how to support our kids with friendship and staying connected when they don't have social media or phones, should we restrict what they do or see on their devices? How do we have get really real and honest about our own phone use parents? What about when they use devices as avoidance or escape? Right? There's, I mean, there's just, there's so much there. This is such a crazy, complicated part of what parenting in 2019 entails, right? It's tricky. It's tricky. And so in the spirit of that trickiness, because I'm gonna say it again. I'm not an expert. I'm not an expert, and I've lived, you know, I'm on the journey with you, with my two kids, and so I have a surprise for you. I have a surprise for you. I actually invited my two kids into the closet with me, and here's the result of the conversation we had about screens.

All right, so I figured if I'm going to talk about screens and kids, it would be really useful to talk to my own kids. And I thought, You know what you probably would like to hear what's going on at my house, because it is by no means anywhere near perfect. I have my son, Ian, who's 13, he's in seventh grade, he's sitting on my right, and my daughter, Rowan, my 16 year old, who's in 10th grade, is on my left, and we are actually currently sitting in my closet, in the dark, in the dark, yeah, sharing a microphone. So, um, yeah. So this has been our history. So our history with the screen, as far as, like, when it got really crazy was Rowan, you were in fourth grade, right? Selena, you were in fourth grade. You had an iPad. You both had iPads, but you came home from school and you were like, I want to get on this app text now, and I want to be able to text my friends. Yeah,

Rowan O’Roarty 12:34
right. I didn't have a phone or anything. I just had an iPad, right? You didn't

Casey O'Roarty 12:38
have anything but an iPad, and the kids were using your girlfriends, right? Were using iPods. They had iPods, and they were using this text now app. And, of course, immediately listeners, I was like, Oh, God, how can I control this? Of course, right? And I

Rowan O’Roarty 12:54
think I got to be on it for 15 minutes every day.

Casey O'Roarty 12:59
Yeah, we made this whole agreement. We've made many in agreement, but it was pretty it was pretty rigid. It was pretty tight, right? How much time you got to spend on it? And then sixth grade, you got your first flip phone, flip phone, which

Rowan O’Roarty 13:14
I didn't really mind it, yeah, much you were able to text friends, not every it wasn't like every single person had an iPhone then right

Casey O'Roarty 13:23
sixth grade, right? But you were definitely becoming more curious about social media, specifically Instagram, yeah, but I only had a flip phone, but you only had a flip phone, and so then when you were third I decided, because I was like, well, it says on the website, you have to be 13 to use social media. So that's gonna be my role, even as both of my kids have rolled their eyes at me at that, and said, Mom, everyone's on social media. I used that to my advantage. And said, Well, you gotta wait till you're 13. So 13 got on Instagram. When did I we had some we had some Snapchat.

Rowan O’Roarty 14:00
Oh, I was on Snapchat before you knew I was on Snapchat, right?

Casey O'Roarty 14:05
Because I got on Snapchat and Snapchats like, oh, find your friends that are also on Snapchat, and I

Rowan O’Roarty 14:11
looked up

Casey O'Roarty 14:12
my number. No, no, that's not what happened where you're sitting outside. I think I know I was sitting outside, and I literally was looking through, yeah, and I was looking through my contacts, and there's Rowan. And I thought, Oh, really, Rowan's on Snapchat. So I called her down. What did I say? Do you remember when I called you down? I was in the backyard. The

Rowan O’Roarty 14:30
weirdest thing happened you you're on Snapchat. Like, why not Snapchat? I

Casey O'Roarty 14:35
was pretty calm. But was I like, scary calm, or do you remember

Rowan O’Roarty 14:39
I could see it in your

Casey O'Roarty 14:41
eye. I was super bugged. Yeah, and then eighth grade, sometimes you were Snapchat official with me, right?

Rowan O’Roarty 14:49
Yeah, at the beginning of eighth grade, at the end of seventh grade, I was allowed to get it, yeah. Oh, really, no, beginning of eighth. It was the beginning of

Casey O'Roarty 14:57
eighth. Oh, I resisted listeners. I. There was just something about Snapchat. It just feels like the wild frontier, the whole like disappearing things, and it feels like kids are it feels like a wild party, yeah, and

Rowan O’Roarty 15:12
there's no parents. People feel like they can do whatever they want on Snapchat,

Casey O'Roarty 15:15
yeah. What are some of the worst things that you've seen show up on Snapchat? Like, a lot of drugs, meaning, like, videos of people doing drugs, oh, yeah, yeah. Or

Rowan O’Roarty 15:25
like, people selling drugs, or like, there's everything you can think of on Snapchat. Have

Casey O'Roarty 15:31
you ever gotten what are some of the direct messages comments towards you that have that? What are the things that you hate about navigating on Snapchat.

Rowan O’Roarty 15:48
What do you mean? Like,

Casey O'Roarty 15:50
well, like, sometimes do people show up and ask for you know, right? Oh, yeah, for nudes. Ask for nudes. Yeah, and is that super common? Yes, yeah.

Rowan O’Roarty 16:01
I remember one time every week I have to block people. Oh, I remember one

Casey O'Roarty 16:05
time we were talking about it in the car, and I was expressing how sad I was for you, like that you had to deal with that, and you looked at me and you were you said, it's just white noise, Mom, it's like, white noise. And that just, like, crushed my heart, because I don't think you need to have to, like, what the hell? What the hell our girls, our boys, they shouldn't have to be navigating this. But then, you know, okay, so there's the door. It's

Rowan O’Roarty 16:34
not like, in person. They're like, Oh, hey, no. They just are through Snapchat. And they're like, Huh, you look kind of cute. Let me just shoot my shot in the worst possible way to shoot it.

Casey O'Roarty 16:44
What do you mean? Shoot my shot? Like,

Rowan O’Roarty 16:46
Hey, can I get some pics? Oh, like, it's

Casey O'Roarty 16:50
just, like, totally pathetic pickup. Yeah, yeah, right. Because they don't have to have face to face rejection. They don't have to get courageous and walk up to you in a room and say, Hey, I saw you standing here. It's super easy to just shoot out a text and be like, Hey, you're cute. Let me see your boobs. Yeah. Oh, has anyone ever sent you there? Yeah,

Rowan O’Roarty 17:12
people will just add me and then send me dick pics out of nowhere, and then get mad when I don't respond. Ew,

Casey O'Roarty 17:21
gross. Ew, okay, okay, so there's that I've always kind of tried to create boundaries, right with the phone and everything, right? You all didn't get to see the look that just passed over Rowan's face when I said that, how have you felt about my involvement with your screen time? Like, how has it felt for you? It

Rowan O’Roarty 17:47
used to be really, really, really annoying, because it's like, it's what's normal now, and sometimes I felt like you didn't really understand that, because, like, in my generation, but like, the new generation, people are getting smartphones, and they're like, great, like, elementary school, yeah, but my generation, it was normal to have a smartphone and be on social media, so you having all those rules. I was like, obviously you don't get it

Casey O'Roarty 18:21
right. I heard that a lot. And now, how do you feel? Fine. What do you mean?

Rowan O’Roarty 18:26
I wish social media never existed so we didn't have to be on our phones. Because now that, like, now that I've been on social media and have an iPhone, it's like, you can't really go back.

Casey O'Roarty 18:39
Yeah. What do you mean? You can't go back, like, go back to because I've so something and Ian, we're gonna get to you. Don't worry if you're feeling left out over there. Um, so what I've noticed with you is like we went through this intense period of time, and it was a couple years, really, eighth and ninth grade, where there was a lot of you and I battling. I would felt, I felt out of control, in that I didn't know how to control you, right? Which is, you know, as you all know, listeners, is my biggest issue,

right? And but really, what I've noticed in the last, I don't know, four four months, three or four months, is that you've kind of, you know, you stopped following people on Instagram. You've really pared down, you know, as far as your more personal Instagram, because, you know, everyone, they have the public account, and then they have their spam now, what about there's another thing that it's called finsta, is that the same as a spam account. So spam or finsta account is where you kind of curate, it's your closer group of friends, right? Yeah, and you post more, yeah. Okay,

Rowan O’Roarty 19:52
so about stupid stuff, like or random stuff, yeah, it's more

Casey O'Roarty 19:57
like, like, the all the parents that are on Facebook or, like. Blah, the traffic, or blah, whatever we parents want to shout out about. So you've really, you seem to have pulled back a little bit on on your phone. Do you feel like you've become is that about being just more aware of not of how much you were using it, or what motivated you to kind of move a little bit away from being so attached to the social media stuff on

Rowan O’Roarty 20:27
my phone, nothing is actually happening in real life. And like, once you're on social media for more than two years, like you can't just, you can't really stop being on it. You can pull back a lot, but you can't. It's like you can't just, like, delete the apps, throw your phone away and just keep living your life, because it's like things happen, like things happen, not that important things, but it's like this pressure to always know what's going on with people. And like, if you miss someone's post where they say that they're sad or something, you don't text them, then they'll be like, are you mad at me? Like, why didn't you text me because I'm sad and stuff like that. So, so

Casey O'Roarty 21:14
does it feel like there's a lot of response, like, that's like, it's, it's irresponsible to shut it all down. Is that how it feels?

Rowan O’Roarty 21:20
Yeah, sometimes I remember one day I, like, a couple months ago, I turned I just didn't go on my phone the whole day, and people like, were texting me. They're like, calling me, saying, are you okay? Oh, my God, what happened to you? Are you okay? People that I haven't talked to in like months, like, hit me up, and we're like, oh my god. Like, this person texted me and said that they hadn't heard from you all day. Are you okay? Yeah, I just wasn't on my phone

Casey O'Roarty 21:51
well, and on one hand, you know that he's like, really nice. Did it feel like genuine concern for your well? Being

Rowan O’Roarty 22:01
like, God, leave me alone.

Casey O'Roarty 22:05
Okay, so there's a little bit so it can be overkill, yeah. What do you like about it? What do you like about

Rowan O’Roarty 22:13
social media? Like, meet new people. There's people I would never would have actually hung out with in real life if I hadn't met them on social media. Okay,

Casey O'Roarty 22:24
that's it. Okay? And I know that there's probably parents listening thinking like, yeah, there's people you wouldn't meet in real life if you hadn't met him on social media. And I know the parent years are like, yeah, like, sexual predators. Do you feel like you've been trolled like that by anyone ever like there's

Rowan O’Roarty 22:41
weird guys that DM me on Instagram. Yeah, I just don't respond. Okay, yeah, there's weird people.

Casey O'Roarty 22:48
Yeah, there's weird people. There's weird people everywhere. Um, how what do you what do you see? And I'll ask both of you, Ian, you can lean into um, this is a really hard question to ask that I'm, you know me. I like to keep it real. What do you see me modeling? You

Rowan O’Roarty 23:07
always say, Oh, I'm just out. You always say, I'm on my phone for work. Use like, what? And you're on Facebook.

Casey O'Roarty 23:15
Well, yeah, shout out to my Facebook communities. Yes.

Rowan O’Roarty 23:19
And you'll and you like, are like, Get off your phones. But when you're on your phone, you cannot multitask. You just when you're Oh my God, when you're typing a text, it's like you're in a different room because you can't talk to us. Like, I'll ask you a question, you'll be like,

Casey O'Roarty 23:39
what I know, Ian, you get a lot of grief from me.

Ian O’Roarty 23:43
Yeah, whenever we're watching TV, you're always on your phone or on your computer.

Casey O'Roarty 23:48
Oh, well, I think always is a strong word. Well, a lot of the time, some of the time, yeah,

Ian O’Roarty 23:53
and you'll be off it for like, an hour, hour and a half, and you'll get on it, and then you just won't do anything else. You just, like, kind of zoned in, like, Rowan said, and like, kind of like, hard to reach. You have to, like, get get your attention. Like, swipe your hand over your phone. Be like, Mom, Mom, Mom, listen, yeah. Do

Casey O'Roarty 24:09
you agree? Yes, oh God, So Ian, let's talk about you for a second now that I feel really good about my parenting. You had an iPod in elementary school, right? And could I message your friends? You didn't seem like you used it very often. We got you a flip phone at the start of sixth grade. That's when middle school starts. I

Ian O’Roarty 24:33
used it for like, a week, and then I just never picked it up again. Yeah, you were

Casey O'Roarty 24:36
super irritated by it. You got an iPhone? When seventh seventh

grade? When did you get that?

Ian O’Roarty 24:44
Yeah, I got it in seventh grade. I had bought my first I bought myself a smartphone, like a Samsung smartphone. You bought it for yourself, yeah, $100 buy it for myself. And like, I think April sometime, around there. And I had it until, yeah, of sixth grade, until I had it until seventh grade, and

Casey O'Roarty 25:05
then, and then you got to get on Instagram. That was the you wanted to get on. You were all excited about Instagram. And so last November, you got on Instagram. How do you? What do you? What's your experience of me creating boundaries around your phone. You create

Ian O’Roarty 25:23
a lot of boundaries. Like, there's a lot of them. Like, you come at, I feel like you kind of control it, like,

Casey O'Roarty 25:30
I try, I try, and you succeed. So what are some of the boundaries? Like, when you say boundaries, what do you mean? Like, what? What are they like?

Ian O’Roarty 25:38
You have the restrictions on my phone so I can't, like, do anything bad, I guess, yes,

Casey O'Roarty 25:46
I do everybody with iPhones, you can get on the screen time and set restrictions and, like, there's modes that you can put in so they don't find, like, creepy sexual content, or certain websites will be blocked, like by age, which kind of blocks other things as well. But you can kind of fine tune it. So, yeah, you've got some restrictions. What else? Um,

Ian O’Roarty 26:09
I my phone shuts off completely at 1030 on weekends and eight on weekdays. And I love that. I love that that happens. It's so what do you

Casey O'Roarty 26:25
hate about that you're smiling as you say? You hate it. So I appreciate that you're willing to have the conversation without getting really defensive, because these kinds of conversations were actually really hard with you. Rowan, yeah, that she would get really mad at me. So I appreciate that you're having the conversation with me. Has

Rowan O’Roarty 26:43
nobody else had you had crazy rules? And I like, Okay, actually, no, you didn't. Thank you. Last year I had to put my phone away at 930 which, like, isn't that bad?

Casey O'Roarty 26:54
Oh my gosh, eight. Yeah. Well, you're in seventh grade, and you have to go to bed a freshman. She was a freshman, and it was going down last year. Right now, I

Rowan O’Roarty 27:07
feel like you're really chill about it, yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 27:09
but I still want your phone out of your room at night. Yeah, most of the time, most of the time it happens. I'm scared to

Ian O’Roarty 27:17
go, yeah. I want you to be like more

Casey O'Roarty 27:19
I'm getting there. You're in seventh grade. You're in seventh grade. Rowan had rules in seventh grade.

Ian O’Roarty 27:25
I'm like, I know, but I'm more mature than she was. No, you're not.

Casey O'Roarty 27:32
So what are some so now that you're on social media,

Ian O’Roarty 27:35
keep in mind that I spend a lot less time on my phone each day than these girls.

Casey O'Roarty 27:41
Oh, really, do you have your phone on you? Right? Let's do a where's my screen check.

Ian O’Roarty 27:44
Let's do so quickly. Where's mine total? No, no, weekly total. Yes, weekly total.

Casey O'Roarty 27:50
Where's mine? Will you turn the light on everyone? It's dark in my closet. Oh, there it is. Okay. So we're all we're just gonna do, we're gonna share the weekly total right

Rowan O’Roarty 28:01
now. My weekly total is 23 hours and 59 minutes. Oh, God, I'm

Casey O'Roarty 28:05
scared, haha.

Ian O’Roarty 28:08
I'll go last,

Rowan O’Roarty 28:10
which is down 26% from last week. My weekly What's your weekly total? Room in three hours and 59 minutes?

Casey O'Roarty 28:19
My weekly total is 24 hours and 33 minutes. My weekly

Ian O’Roarty 28:24
total is 19 hours and 58 minutes, and that's up 15%

Rowan O’Roarty 28:30
but we're talking to more people so

Casey O'Roarty 28:33
well, yeah, my mind is actually down 8% from last week's down 24%

Ian O’Roarty 28:40
mine's up.

Casey O'Roarty 28:40
So I think that, I think that it's actually really I am enjoying and getting ever more aware of my phone use, because the three of us sit down and we do that like when we look at our totals, and we talk about it and we're in conversation about it, I feel like that helps me to be more aware of how much I'm on my phone. Do you feel like that? I mean, 24 hours, that's like a part time job.

Rowan O’Roarty 29:08
Yeah, it's called Living.

Casey O'Roarty 29:15
And what do you like about social media?

Ian O’Roarty 29:18
Most of it, pretty much everything, like, well,

Casey O'Roarty 29:21
specifically, like, you've only been on it for a few months. Yeah, and what do you feel like has opened up because of social media. Like, what are you experiencing?

Ian O’Roarty 29:31
I meet a lot more people like Ron said, like,

Casey O'Roarty 29:38
like, your girlfriend, I Yeah, so you meet more people. Kind of expands your social group. What do you not? What are you noticing? You know, is there anything that is happening that you weren't expecting? Not really. No, everything. What do you not like about social media? Um, I.

Ian O’Roarty 30:00
Lean forward your control over it? No, no.

Casey O'Roarty 30:02
I know you don't like that, but about actual social media, is there anything you Is there anything you don't like

Ian O’Roarty 30:10
the people can just be like, dicks and like, no, like, nothing really happens about it, unless, like, you block them,

Casey O'Roarty 30:16
oh, so that people can just show up and be jerks, yeah, yeah.

Ian O’Roarty 30:20
Unless, like, everyone's on a private account, which not many people

Casey O'Roarty 30:24
are, yeah, got it.

Rowan O’Roarty 30:26
You can talk back to them, just saying, Yeah, you

Casey O'Roarty 30:29
could get into an Instagram. Really

Rowan O’Roarty 30:31
smart words, they will stop. Literally, I've done this to someone because I blocked him on Snapchat and he DM me. He's like, why he do that? So I looked up some really smart words, typed a few paragraphs, and he was like, okay, sorry, I'll leave you alone.

Ian O’Roarty 30:47
Need to talk after this. Hey,

Casey O'Roarty 30:49
and you know what? You don't even have to give a reason why you block someone exactly.

Ian O’Roarty 30:55
Say you just don't like them. Yeah, you don't. Probably

Casey O'Roarty 30:58
leave them What do you say? Leave them open.

Ian O’Roarty 31:00
Leave them on Open.

Casey O'Roarty 31:01
Leave them on Open. Leave them on read like I read your message delivered.

Rowan O’Roarty 31:06
You don't even ever open. It got it seen. What

Casey O'Roarty 31:10
do you feel Ian, because I know that I totally went on a rant about this the other day, but since getting your smartphone and being on social media. What do you feel like? How do you feel like it gets in the way

Ian O’Roarty 31:26
it really doesn't. Oh, my

Casey O'Roarty 31:30
God, he totally knows that. I'm looking for a specific answer here you

don't feel like it does well, and you both, like, watch a ton of YouTube. No,

Ian O’Roarty 31:46
I don't. You want to know. You know what? I don't. I don't watch YouTube anymore. Get closer to the mic. I don't watch YouTube. I

Rowan O’Roarty 31:52
set a screen time limit for an hour on YouTube

Casey O'Roarty 31:55
a day injury. And when the limit comes up and says, Unless I'm watching

Rowan O’Roarty 31:59
something really good, and have a video to watch after then I wait, yes, so

Casey O'Roarty 32:05
you sorta, you sort of follow a moment, at least it lets you know. Like, hey, Ro, you've been on this for an hour.

Rowan O’Roarty 32:12
There's funny videos. Like, if I'm depressed, I'm a teenager, like, look out. Funny Videos, like, hey,

Casey O'Roarty 32:21
so you use it as a tool, it can become a tool. Yeah. So what do you think parents that are listening, what if you could give them any tips? Is there, like, what do you think that parents need to know? Because this is what we know. We know that there's like, research that shows that when you're on your phone, the same part of the brain is being highlighted as when you're on cocaine. So there's like, there's so there's like, real it's real life. You know, as far as restrictions and go and everything goes like, we've got to set boundaries for ourselves. All of us, obviously me too. So what do you like? How can we help parents have because I feel really grateful that I can have these conversations with you guys, and we can laugh and be real and but not everybody is there right now with their teenagers.

Rowan O’Roarty 33:13
Just so, you know, there was a research done that depressed teenagers are on their phone more, but that doesn't lead to more depression. A lot of people think it does, but it

Casey O'Roarty 33:26
doesn't. You're gonna have to offer me that that depart article that states that depressed people are on social media more but the social media doesn't make them more depressed.

Rowan O’Roarty 33:37
Yeah, that doesn't make them more depressed. They're just on social media more. I'm

Casey O'Roarty 33:42
not. I don't. I'm gonna have to look at the research on that. But, okay, oh, oh, Rowan didn't like that. Now she's giving me the okay,

Ian O’Roarty 33:54
parents, listen up. So if you're looking, if your child does something wrong, and you're looking for something to blame it on. Do not blame it on their phones. If it is not the phone's fault, it will make your child very angry and pretty annoyed, because a lot of parents do that and it is not pleasant. Okay,

Rowan O’Roarty 34:19
don't go through your kid's phone because we need secrets, and sometimes, yeah, just don't do it well.

Casey O'Roarty 34:29
But okay, I hear you saying that, and I totally respect that, and I agree that. You know, thinking back to being a teenager, I know I didn't want my parents sitting on the other phone in the house, listening to the conversations I was having with my friends, for sure. And as parents, we're also looking at what's going on on the outside with our kids. You know, are there drastic changes in their how they're performing at school? Are they changing friend groups? I mean, are there signs that's. Something's going on, and if so, then the phone, because it becomes a really useful place to say, okay, you know what I've offered you all of this privacy, but now I'm I'm really worried, and it's legit, but

Rowan O’Roarty 35:13
all you're gonna find on it is, like, videos of them vaping. It's not like this,

Casey O'Roarty 35:19
or, you know, or you might like, I know that there's been parents who have reached out to me who have gotten that gut instinct, and what they've found is their child is in a conversation with somebody who's potentially a predator. Okay,

Rowan O’Roarty 35:35
yeah, I don't know what to say to that, because,

Casey O'Roarty 35:37
I mean, sometimes fall for well, and it's like no judgment on those kids. They're just doing the best they can with the tools they have. But I think that, you know, yes, I'm hearing that. And from the teenager perspective, it's, you know, it's kind of a big eye roll, as far as, like, God parents, they always want to look in the phone. But at the same time, sometimes it feels like life or death from our perspective. So, you know, it just feels like, if I don't figure out what's happening, my teenager isn't talking to me, where else? I mean, that's, you know, I could, we could look for journals, but really, that's what phones have become, or they're, they're like inner world. So

Ian O’Roarty 36:16
if you're going, if you were thinking about going into your child's phone, ask and you're, like, noticing drastic changes, ask them about it. Talk to them first. And if they do, like, are like, really quiet, or like, don't say much, or are being like, really secretive about it, then you can, but if they're, if they're not doing that, then it's, I say, it's fine to, like, not do that as I don't check it, like, every day. Like, you could check like, once, like, every couple weeks or something, but like, that's if, if you're doing a lot, that's pretty overdramatic.

Casey O'Roarty 36:54
Yeah, I don't really check Rowan's phone. It's really hard to rip it out of her hands sometimes. But I do check Ian's phone, but you're in seventh grade, so, and Rowan, you're 16 years old, and, and ultimately, my main things on

Rowan O’Roarty 37:09
Ian's phone have gone me in trouble. Just you, let

Ian O’Roarty 37:13
me make that tick tock. Okay,

Casey O'Roarty 37:15
okay, okay, um, I think the most important thing to me is that, like you Rowan, you're going to be out you know, you're just in inching your way closer to being out in the world as you know a young adult. And ultimately, what I want most is as a young adult, you've practiced tools and lived in a structured enough environment to where you know you're in your own apartment or your own house, and you're not spending 20 hours a day on your technology, right? Or you can check yourself. I want you to develop those skills and support you right now. Same with you, and I mean, you're a little further behind, but that ultimately, to me, is the goal, right? Like that's our goal. We want our kids to stay safe. But this technology isn't going anywhere, and it's only getting crazier. So knowing that you're gonna be out in the world with these little phones in your pocket, or whatever they're gonna look like 510, years from now, I just want you to have tools to recognize Okay, I am overkilling this. I gotta pull back and and really have that awareness. Do you feel like structure and boundaries now are supporting you and ultimately getting there? You have to speak because no one can see you. Nod yes. Lean forward. Do you feel like, like, I mean, I know it's annoying, but are you? Do you feel like it actually serves you that we have these conversations and we have boundaries and structures?

Ian O’Roarty 38:50
Um, I feel like the boundaries are a little overkill. But, I mean, some of them, like, I can understand, like, someone like, Okay, what like, what, what, like, the downtime. Like, I think that, because if you just like, I'm not, it's not like I'm gonna be on my phone all night. Like, because I says, I plug it in the really,

Rowan O’Roarty 39:10
I would be on my phone all night if I were you, I'm plugging it in

Casey O'Roarty 39:13
the hall. You were on your phone all night when you were,

Ian O’Roarty 39:15
yeah, you weren't me age, but plug it into the hallway and like, it's not like, I'm gonna go out sneak it and put it back in my room, or anything I did you did

Casey O'Roarty 39:28
or do. All right, all right. Rowan and Ian, can I just tell you, Oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Okay, well, the

Ian O’Roarty 39:39
boundaries are overkill, some of them, but some of them are good. So yeah, I guess the conversations help. Okay, a lot.

Casey O'Roarty 39:45
Awesome again. So listeners, I just want to say publicly to my two kids, I adore you. I'm super grateful that you are sitting in the closet with me in the dark, having this conversation and and sharing so that I can share it with my listeners. Nurse, is there anything else you want to say? Like, how rad your mom is.

Rowan O’Roarty 40:04
No,

Casey O'Roarty 40:06
really, come on, that's your chance.

Rowan O’Roarty 40:13
You're pretty cool. Oh

Casey O'Roarty 40:14
God, just say goodbye. Goodbye. All right, you can leave the closet now coming up

and out they go. So yeah, my purpose in having the kids come in and talk about that is to just highlight one. You know, a non emotional conversation about screens can be really powerful and enlightening and relationship building, right? I mean, I hope that that is something that you heard from me and from the kids in that conversation. We you know boundaries and structures are important to have. Yes, what they look like, I feel like depends on who you are and what you want most for your family. I don't think that there was a one size fits all. What I've learned with my two kids is that things ebb and flow like the screen. And also, not only do things ebb and flow and a lot, but a lot of times how I'm feeling about my kids screen use is directly related to how I'm currently feeling about my own screen use. And you know, the kids called me out, you heard them. And yes, I am an online entrepreneur, so I am on my screens. I am working like that is a legitimate claim some of the time, and I am equally as guilty as they are, or any of us are. Of you know that escapism and wanting to just, you know, quote, chill and scroll and the less aware I am, the less present I am in those moments, the higher my daily screen time becomes. And so really, you know, getting clear about what we want most for ourselves and our kids, being able to articulate that to them and have conversations that aren't heated about our ultimate goals with them, being able to be really authentic and real in our own struggles, and allowing our kids to call us out, I think, is really important, you know, and you are the expert on your child, like you get to really notice your own instincts and notice the red flags. It's what I call them, the moments where you really are acknowledging, like something bigger is going on here, and while the kids you know were joking with me in our conversation around privacy and like, don't look at my phone. The bottom line is, that's a place we get to go, right? And it doesn't mean we read every text. It doesn't I mean, you know, and some people do that, they and again, it's your prerogative. When I like, I said, go back and think about what it would have been like if my parents had recorded my calls or listened in on the other end. That would have felt very what's the word? It just would have felt aggressively gross. It would have just made it very difficult to be in real honest relationship, and I was already kind of a liar. I was sneaky. I didn't tell my parents a lot of things, even inside of our good relationship. I was sneaky. Had they been more intrusive? That's the word I was looking for, and how they monitored me and my communications with my friends, you know, that would have been even worse, and it's a different world today than it was when I was a teenager in the late 80s, early 90s, right? It's not just monitoring our kids conversations with their friends. There's all these other people, you know, and sitting here and hearing Rowan say, Oh yeah, people send me dick pics. Breaks my heart, right? Breaks my heart. And this is the world that our kids are growing up in. So let's be in conversation with them about it. Let's pull the curtain back so it's not the secretive thing and we get to. Talk about like, how do you navigate that? What do you do about that? I have a son, right? And he is passionate. We didn't get to talk about it today on the show, but he gets really fired up that boys will ask girls for nudes. And I know I can hear Amy laying right now in my head saying, Oh, it's not just the boys that are being pushy. The girls get pushy too. You know, the girls want attention from boys, and they're sending sexy shots. You know, how are we talking to our boys about that, and how to respond in a way that's respectful and lets the girls know that they don't have to do that. So, I mean, I don't think this particular episode is going to be, you know, complete with perfect action steps to be tied up in a little bow right now, but I just felt really compelled to come on and bring up this conversation, and to bring my kids on and really show you and be transparent about how we are currently talking about screens in the house. And I gotta tell you, it was, I think you can hear it in my voice. It was, you know, not easy to say, what are you noticing about me and what I'm modeling and but it's important, like we get, they get to they get to share about that with me, and I get to learn, and I get to grow, and I get to reduce my screen time. So that's what I've got for you today. What kind of conversations are you having with your kids? Maybe this podcast is something you can listen to together. Maybe your kids would disagree with my kids. You know, maybe there's maybe these are conversation starters for you. I just want you to know that we're all in it together. You're not alone in this. And it can feel really intense, and it can feel like there's no solution, there's no answer, that there's no end to the fighting. And there is right, there's there, there's there's directions to go in. There's conversations to have. Set your boundaries right, find your kindness and firmness, because it's our kids are too important to just throw our hands in the air and say whatever, it's too hard, right? And my you know, high five to all of you that are holding back on phones and social media as for as long as possible. Yay. Great. And you know, we want our kids to be able to learn the skills that they need to handle all of this and navigate this when we're not, you know, when we're not the soft landing. So I'm super excited to hear your thoughts about all this and your feedback and what you think, and I'll just continue to have these kinds of conversations with my kids, with all of you join us in the live in love with joyful courage group, or the joyful courage parents of teens group, and let's keep talking, and let's support each other, because this is, you know, we Are the Pioneer parents, as far as raising kids during a time where media is what it is right now, we are the pioneers. Oh my gosh, and it is not easy, so Let's support each other and share and show up and be authentic. And our kids need us to do that. So that's what I've got for you today. I hope that you have a beautiful day. Don't forget at the beginning of the show, I mentioned my newsletter. So joyful courage.com/join. We'll get you on my newsletter. That's where I share podcasts with you directly to your inbox, and I will also be sharing information about my upcoming book, joyful courage, calming the drama and taking control of your parenting journey. Also, as I've mentioned, the parenting teens with positive discipline. Audio Summit is for sale. The Forever access package is available now through the end of the month. So you're going to want to check that out at joyful courage.com/teen summit for more information and to purchase that, it's really good. 15 interviews with positive discipline trainers and lead trainers about a variety of topics, including screen use, including kindness and firmness, including all the things that drive us crazy when it comes to raising teenagers in positive discipline land. So check that out, and I love you. Keep leaving me iTunes reviews and I will see you next week with a brand new interview. Bye. Joyful courage community. Thank you so much for tuning in each and every week. Big thanks and love to my team, including my producer. Chris Mann at pod shaper. Be sure to join the discussion over at the live and love with joyful courage group page, as well as the joyful courage business pages on Facebook and Instagram. Subscribe to the show through Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google Play, iHeartRadio, really anywhere you find your favorite podcasts. Also, I mentioned Patreon at the beginning of the show, check it out. Www.patreon.com/joyful,

courage. This is where you can contribute to the show and take advantage of patron perks like content rich monthly webinars and deeper discussions about what's being shared on the podcast. You will like it. Www, dot, P, A, T, R, E, o, n.com/joyful, courage. Any comments or feedback about this show or any others can be sent to Casey at joyful courage.com I personally read and respond to all the emails that come my way. So reach out. You can also sign up for my bi weekly [email protected] just go to the website, sign up for that, take a breath, drop into your body, find the balcony seat and trust that everyone is going to be okay. Big Love to each and every one of you. Have a beautiful rest of your day.

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