Eps 162: Exploring our Energetic Connection With our Children with Jennifer Griffin

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Casey O'Roarty 0:00
Music. Hey everybody, welcome to the joyful courage podcast, a place for information and inspiration on the conscious parenting journey. Conversations you'll hear on this show are all intended to offer you tools for moving forward, expanding your lens and shifting your narrative to one of possibility, connection and empowerment. When we bring deep, listening, acceptance and courage to our relationships, we are doing our part to evoke it in the world. I am thrilled to partner with you on this path. Hey, listeners, before we get into this week's interview, I just wanted to jump in ahead of the show with a huge thank you to each and every one of you that has reached out to me in response to last week's show. If you didn't get a chance to listen, last week, I shared really openly and vulnerably about what I'm navigating through my daughter's journey of anxiety and depression, and I just wanted to highlight the reason why I thought it was so important to talk about and it's because I have lots of private conversations about what other parents are going through with their children, and we don't always talk about mental health out in the open, because of that feeling of shame or embarrassment, or perhaps we feel like we've done something wrong. There's so much all tied up in to our perception of mental health, and I just really felt called and was grateful that my daughter gave me permission to talk so openly about our experience. And all of you that are reaching out and saying, you know this is what's happening for us as well. And thank you, and you spoke to my soul. I just wanted to make sure to give a shout out to all of you and thank you for showing up and letting me know how deeply my work is landing for you. So I love the joyful courage community. Thank you for listening and enjoy today's show. Hi listeners, welcome back to the show. My guest today is Jennifer Griffin. Jennifer is the mother of four. Has her Master's in Counseling Psychology with 30 years of experience guiding children and adults on their relationship journeys. Jennifer is a DIY Maven specializing in leading individuals to uncover the messages in their chronic health conditions and their children's challenging behaviors. You will be able to find out more about Jennifer on her website, spiritual gift institute.com and find there her best selling books, understanding morning sickness as a gift and understanding your child as a spiritual gift. I'm so excited, Jennifer, to welcome you to the podcast. Thank

Jennifer Griffin 3:09
you, Casey. I'm delighted to be here on your fantastic podcast. Yay. Will you please

Casey O'Roarty 3:15
share a little bit more about your journey of doing what it is that you do?

Jennifer Griffin 3:19
I write about transforming adversity into a gift and teach people simple yet powerful DIY techniques to heal at home.

Casey O'Roarty 3:31
Yeah, tell me more about that. What does that even mean? Well, I

Jennifer Griffin 3:35
really like to empower people to do things for themselves and in my own personal journey of healing, I found it so valuable to take back the power we give away so much of our power in the society. And once you can do things for yourself, you feel so capable, and it's really good for healing trauma, because when you've gone through something traumatic, you lose power, and it's a great way to take it back.

Casey O'Roarty 4:10
Yeah, so what are some of the DIY techniques that you've shared with parents around taking back their power or clients?

Jennifer Griffin 4:18
One of my favorite is EMDR, Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing, which is a technique that was originally used for PTSD for people from the military, and it is something that is simple to learn at home and do with a partner or a friend that I find so much with a lot of healing techniques, it requires so much time, energy and money, and so I really like to cut to the chase of what the essence of it is, and give people the. Resources to do it themselves, and it's always good to you know, check in with a practitioner and have mentors and guides along the way, but ultimately, the healing comes from within you, and I think that you have to be empowered to know how to do that when you need it.

Casey O'Roarty 5:17
Yeah, I recently heard Dr Dan Siegel speak in Seattle, and he writes, I mean, listeners, know, I talk about him a lot, and he writes books for parents, and one of the questions was, what is the, you know, what is the number one thing I can do to be the best parent that I can be for my child? And his response was, simply, learn to make sense of your own childhood, learn to make sense of the experiences of your life, and I think that that will really take us into what it is that we're going to talk about today, how a parent's work around authenticity, and that that making sense of like you said, trauma or old wounds can directly affect their child's behavior. So give us a little bit of background with that share, if you will, with the listeners about your daughter and your husband and the experience that you had with them that you wrote about in the elephant Journal. Well,

Jennifer Griffin 6:15
my daughter, Arcada, cried incessantly for two and a half years. She was diagnosed with colic that never ended. Then doctors started to wonder, does she have Asperger's? And then I noticed a pattern that the more worn out my husband was, the more Arcata would cry. And he was used to being a people pleaser for so many years, unable to speak up for himself. He didn't know when to take a break. He didn't know how to set clear boundaries. So I began developing this theory that he was expressing her unexpressed feelings. It was where she would express sometimes his direct words would come out of her mouth. One time, we had a dinner guest over who Arcata adored, and it was approaching 8:30pm and the guest asked, Oh, maybe I should leave. I think it's time for Arcata to go to sleep. And my husband said, No, stay as long as you like. Arcata said, revealed his true feelings and screamed, get out of here. I want you to leave now. And as soon as the guests left, Arcata mood drastically changed, and she became playful and excited again. And we noticed as she got older how creative she would become after my husband authentically expressed himself, and she was released from experiencing his feelings and sometimes, and that was a term that I then called channeling, which is a mix of family systems theory and Louise Hay, the pioneer of the self help movement and author of you can heal your life. I combined the two and developed a chart of behaviors and phrases that help parents discover the messages in their children's behaviors. So

Casey O'Roarty 8:06
I'm just going to speak back what you just said to kind of make sense of of what I'm hearing. So what you're sharing is that there are, well, we all know, we all have our own issues, right stuff that we've carried along with us from early experiences and things that maybe we're not saying, but are brewing inside of us. And so what you are talking about is that our children are picking up on that energy, and because we're not expressing what it is that's right there at the surface to be expressed, they're taking it upon themselves to express it for us, yes, exactly.

Jennifer Griffin 8:42
And when you can meet this with excitement and realize this is the gift and that there's anything wrong, or it is common for parents to then beat themselves up even more and try to push it away and feel guilty that they're feeling this way, and the more you can authentically say, Wow, this is reminding me of this, or it's not always buried childhood stuff. It can be as simple as I got this email from my boss today, and he wants me to work on this project, but I already feel overwhelmed with this other project, and I don't know how to speak up for myself. Now, maybe the speaking up for yourself is an older wound. But in the current situation, if you can be clear to your boss and say, Hey, I don't have time to work on that right now, that sometimes can be enough to release your child from having to take that on for you.

Casey O'Roarty 9:40
Yeah. So basically, it's like recognizing when you're holding on to something, yes, exactly, and kind of spinning out in whatever that energy might be, because, and that makes sense to me, I think I'm definitely a believer that it's not just our words that communicates with those around us, it's the energy that we hold. Hold the energy that is both inside of our body outside of our body. I mean, I think I'm one of those people that it's super obvious how I'm feeling, without me directly saying this is how I'm feeling. Just ask my family, and they will confirm that. And so it's kind of pointless, not for me, I find to not share what it is that's going on. Do you feel like parents always know what it is that they're not expressing? Is that like, is that part of the work that you do with your clients is just kind of discovering what it is that, because we can be people pleasers without, for example, without necessarily realizing that that's what we are. I think some of us come into parenting, specifically with a variety of background as far as personal growth and development and a lens to see our own inner workings. Do you find that parents are pretty quick to recognize like, oh, yeah, that's what I need to express. Or what do you notice with your clients? No,

Jennifer Griffin 11:05
I do not notice that they are always quick to recognize, and that my husband and I are the opposite ends of the Express spectrum in this and so I am super, super expressive and authentic, and he is much more into people pleasing. So the more you're into people pleasing, the longer the pattern of pushing your feelings away. So more deep work needs to be done. And there also is that difference I was talking about before, of meeting it with excitement and joy. When my child channels me and expresses my feelings I have a specifically. My third child expresses around fun and creativity, and when I'm not expressing myself that way, she expresses it for me, and I meet it with excitement and joy and will grab my husband and be like she's She won't stop freaking out and she's fixated. Okay, I got this email, I this, and I'm so excited to discover. I think it's fantastic because I'm also very practical. I'm like, if I can just say what I'm thinking, and then she's gonna stop throwing a fit. This is so great, yeah, and that comes more naturally to me than it does to my husband, who's the other end of the continuum, and then I feel like people are all in between, and he has learned how to not feel guilty and how to look at all the different things. And that's where it's helpful to have an outside kind of partner that you call when this stuff happens, and say, My kid is freaking out. They say they want to quit soccer. They want to quit soccer, and then the person says, Well, what do you want to quit? Because that's always what it is, and that's what my chart says, if your child's always lying about something, what is the parent lying about it? Just you just ask the question back, if the kid is really obsessed on something. What are you secretly inside, obsessing on and not expressing

Casey O'Roarty 13:15
So would you say that every This is so I'm okay. I love this conversation, and I feel I'm curious. Because, you know, sometimes in my work, when I talk to parents, I use the metaphor of the iceberg, right? And I think that we could use that here. The behavior that you see right is the tantrum or the backtalk or whatever is showing up under the surface, what you don't see, on one hand, could be feelings, emotions, things that I, as the parent am not expressing. So getting curious there. Also, like our children are hungry, angry, lonely, tired, also, I, because I come from the positive discipline background, and we do a lot of it's founded in Adlerian theory, and that human need for belonging and significance, so and wanting to know that we're connected and that we matter and are significant. So where do those things fit in with behavior inside this model of messaging around what it is that the parents have to express

Jennifer Griffin 14:20
Well, the piece that spoke most to me, and as one of the big I am hungry or I want food, and nothing seems to satisfy the kid, speak to two different things. Sometimes I am hungry is the parent actually needs to eat, and sometimes it's as simple as the parent sits down and eats. And then other times we really found this with my husband, that it was deeper core abandonment. When Arcada used to always be hungry when she was young, even after she eat, she would eat and she nothing would satisfy her, and she's like, No, but I need food. Food. And she was also a very clear younger talker. So she would add to be able to clearly be say, No, I need food. I mean, food. And it took us a long time before we realized that's when he was feeling unloved. And we would give her, I mean, I didn't give my kids candy and sugar, but we were resort to, okay, we'll give her that. We'll give her sugar. We'll give her and it's still nothing, nothing in the whole world, until he was able to say, I feel abandoned right now, and as soon as he could express that she wasn't hungry anymore, she didn't need food, and she would stop on her obsessive and this is particularly valuable theory, when your child is really, really freaking out about something and won't stop when they it's either it's a sudden outburst out of nowhere, or it's an outburst that happens at the same time every day, or it's one that just continues on and on and won't stop. It's all really great times to look back at the parent. And another thing I haven't mentioned is it usually with two parent two child families, one parent is tied to one child and the other parent is tied to another child. Predominantly, sometimes there's a crossover, but I find that what because So kind of the first step is to figure out which child you more expressed through in my experience, and again, you know, if there's only one child in the family, it can go through both there are times that that does happen, but other times it's just through one parent, which then helps figure out who you're going to talk to and how you're going to help the behavior stop.

Casey O'Roarty 17:02
That makes sense to me. I definitely we see that in our family as well. But I want to come back, because I still, I still want to be really clear on everything, going back to parents unexpressed emotions. I mean, don't kids have tantrums sometimes, just because for other reasons, or is it? Are you saying that it's always tied to the parent and their energy and their unexpressed emotions?

Jennifer Griffin 17:30
I live and breathe it, and it is so phenomenal to think that is this really what's going on? I do think that you can find a link somewhere between what is going on for the parent or another avenue to explore along. This is what was happening to the parent at that age. Is also another big piece that you can find something kind of unfinished business in the generational pattern.

Casey O'Roarty 18:07
Yeah, yes. That totally lands for me in my personal experience, for sure. And I I appreciate that this is another, this is, I love that this is a whole nother lens to look out of, right? Because it's so often I work with parents, and it's just like, I don't know what's happening right now, like I am at a loss with this particular child. And so to offer, hey, what about this? You know, dig in here. I think is such a powerful gift for them. It is

Jennifer Griffin 18:39
a powerful gift. And it's it's amazing with the parents that I've worked with, how much they'll embrace it, because it's so exciting and it's so amazing the first time you experience how you express yourself, and your kid completely calms down. However, it's so easy to forget about it, and it's so easy whatever unconscious processes are going on that prevent you from engaging in it. So it's very common that you will get very get somewhere working with a parent and a child, and then there's a period of time often, where they're like, no, no, that's not it. And what is very, very common is the parent will say, No, no, no, I'm fine. I've been completely fine this week. Everything is good, and their kid is still out of control. And I'm like, that is classic. That is so classic. And it's like, you say, Well, I've seen that over and over again. There's this period, and it's hard to go into these places, but I still feel if we keep exploring here, we're going to get to the root of this. And when you get to the root of it, I mean, you know, as a parent, you can go spinning in what's going on with your child, Oh, yeah. And it can take. Take over the whole family, it could take over the whole week, it could take over the whole month. And this is about, no, we're gonna stop that, and we're gonna go on this different path. And what's amazing is the child usually goes into this really creative, amazing, peaceful space after they're released from expressing the parents feelings, and then everyone else can get back to I mean, I think human nature is to be scared of this process, but once they express themselves, even the parent, it's a release for everyone. Yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 20:35
does the I'm thinking of a really recent situation that I got to experience joyfully, not so joyfully, but I lovingly. Where I am a fixer. I like to fix things, and I know my 15 year old needs me to listen and not fix and not relate. It actually feels dismissive to her, which is I am, you know, in my own work, having to remind myself of that a lot. And we recently had a really big conversation, and I noticed that instead of like, I really was listening deeply to her, and I was also hearing in my own mind, like Casey, this is not yours to fix. Just be a listener. This is not yours to fix. So while I didn't say that out loud, I felt like it was a big release for me in the moment, and where that hour that conversation on the couch felt very dark. A couple hours later, we were sitting around the table at dinner, and it was so light and it was so we were laughing, we were connected. It was back to really being this loving family unit. So was that an example of even though I didn't express it out loud, it was something internally that I processed while in conversation with my daughter. Is that something that would fit here with this work that you do? Or is the processing, the expressing, needing to, like, be words coming out of the mouth. No,

Jennifer Griffin 22:05
I think, I think what you did is, is, like a very advanced and so perfect, because when you can create,

Casey O'Roarty 22:12
yeah, I'm quite advanced, Jennifer,

Jennifer Griffin 22:16
that's ultimately, but that's ultimately where we want to be, and that I often find if you're not used to expressing yourself, you need to kind of take that risk and start to express it outwardly. So you know even what you're supposed to be expressing, Oh, got it before you can kind of take it inside yourself. Okay, so what you just said about saying that to yourself reminds me, my teen is taking psych 100 and just showed me a great quotation from Carl Rogers, who is the father of humanistic psychology. And he said, I don't know the exact quotation, but something to the effect of I used to, as a therapist, try to fix things, and then I realized I had to be the relationship the client needed. So it really reminds me what you were saying to yourself was, Oh, my daughter doesn't mean me to fix my daughter needs me right now to listen, and I need to be that relationship for her right now,

Casey O'Roarty 23:24
yeah. And I mean, if I wanted to go, I mean, I could find all sorts of areas of my life, you know, in my lifetime, my lifespan, where I didn't feel listened to. And I know where that my fixing comes from, all of that. And, yeah, it's so powerful, and it is so challenging. Like, I just want to say out loud, you know, for listeners, because I know there's a lot of people that listen to the show that are really working on shifting their parenting. You know, we come into parenting with the models that we had, and even when we've made big declarations around I will not be this way or that way, or carry on this unhealthy pattern. We find that, oh, it lives inside of us, and there it is. And so sometimes, moving towards conscious, thoughtful, mindful, positive parenting, we bump up against the roadblocks that are our past experiences, our modeling, our just emotional baggage. And so I think it's really important listeners to hear this and to know that it's a journey, right? It's a journey. And like you said, Jennifer, finding a guide, finding somebody to support you along the way. But also, I think, trusting yourself and trusting the practice and trusting that you know in those moments where after you've listened to the show and your child is falling apart, interrupting your normal, your typical response and thinking. Back, like, Okay, well, let me try this out. What am I not expressing right now? What is happening for me emotionally right now? I'm going to play with this. I'm going to tease it out and see what happens, right because I think that, you know, that's really where the work lies, is in the practice. And just like I heard you say, Jennifer, if we were robots, this would be really easy, but we are emotional humans, and sometimes we forget. We fall off the wagon, or, like you were saying, you know, you go through that period of time where you don't see the connection, and it's always, you know, what I try to remember is the practice is always there to return to, right? The practice is always there to return to.

Hey, listeners, I'm just popping in real quick to remind you that one of the ways that you can work with me is through private one on one coaching. I am a certified positive discipline trainer as well as a certified life coach, and I love working one on one with clients to tease apart the challenges that they're having, as well as help them build a foundation around being the kind of parent that they want to be. If you are interested in learning more about coaching, you can go to www dot, joyful courage.com/coaching, that's WWW dot, joyful courage.com/coaching, and if you're interested, you are welcome to schedule a free 20 minute explore. Call with me at any time. Back to the show. How do you support parents who kind of veer off and forget what it is that they've learned from you?

Jennifer Griffin 26:55
Well, I tell them that for me, I feel like when the child is bringing up to this issue. It is truly a gift that you are ready. So if you weren't able or capable of doing it, then the child wouldn't be going in this direction. But it's a gift that they're here to give you and that you you are ready to kind of let go of this pattern.

Casey O'Roarty 27:21
I like to say that our children pick us, I think, spiritually, cosmically, before we're in these bodies, that our kids pick us. What do you think? How do you think it comes to be that we have the children that we have? Yes,

Jennifer Griffin 27:37
I definitely think that children pick us. I tell my kids all the time as they picked us and we chose them somewhere. Our contracts were written before we got here. We all chose each other, and we all have something to learn from every interaction is here to teach us something, and really taking that perspective as a parent and as a human, interacting in the world takes you out of that victim and out of that blame, and really empowers you to figure out the message, yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 28:16
well, that's where I hear the celebration living. It's like, Yes, awesome. I get to move forward here with this particular circumstance that is happening before me. On your website, you write, remember, nothing is ever created or destroyed, therefore, unresolved emotional pain from a parent's childhood does not dissolve by itself. It sits waiting to be declared, and a child is the ultimate vehicle of expression. In order to transform the energy into something positive, the pain must be brought to the surface, examined, embraced as experiences from which to learn and blossom. Can you tell us a little bit more about that and the idea that we are transforming energy.

Jennifer Griffin 29:16
Yes, I believe we all have emotional pain that consists of past experiences ranging from a few minutes ago to all the way back to our childhood that we have not yet fully digested, and that our children are connecting into our chakras, and that's where they're picking up our energy that is not yet fully resolved, and tell me more about that. Well, we have seven chakras in our system, and they each represent different areas of our spiritual development. Mm. And I have found that Arcata and Rob were really connected on their first and second chakras. And have met other parents, as you were telling me before this podcast, there were issues in your third chakra with your daughter. And then I've worked with parents who have felt a big connection between their heart chakras with their child. So looking into what each chakra, your heart chakras, represents your feelings of love and connection, and so looking at how your child lives like that and manifests things in the world gives you a heads up of what you're still working on if you're not clear about it.

Casey O'Roarty 30:44
Yeah, and so I just want to tell that story to the listeners. So what I shared with Jennifer before we got on, I don't think I've shared it on the podcast. I may have shared it last fall as it was happening, but it was the very beginning of high school for my 15 year old, and things were just out of sorts, and she had an epic meltdown. And, you know, I lived through many but this one felt brought up a lot of fear for me, and I think it totally relates exactly to what we're talking about here, because it brought up a lot of fear for me. I could feel it in my belly, and I couldn't really, I couldn't release it. So listeners, you know that I have a meditation practice and that I love to do yoga, and it just didn't seem to matter what I was doing. I couldn't release this knot. And so I went to see my my favorite Reiki master, and she does energy work, which is work with the chakras, and as soon as she put her hand right there on my third chakra, everything knitted up, and she could feel inside my body the way my energy just closed off and said, Nope, not getting in here. And you know what we started to talk about and play with, was this idea that my soul, my spirit, was holding a lot of really ancient fear, fear from previous lifetimes. And that Rowan and I have this soul contract that we decided, like you were talking about Jennifer before these, you know, we came into these bodies, that she was really a part of my releasing this fear. And then as I thought about the conversation that she and I had had, and what had triggered me into this fear, I realized she was the same age that I was when I told my mom that I wanted to go move in with my dad and my stepmom, and that was the beginning of a really difficult. 10 years of estrangement with my own mom and making that connection was really powerful. And to talk about healing, I then called my mom, and because I had never really thought about or experienced the pain that she had gone through, like I was 14, so I was in my own like, Screw you. I'm out of here. Moment. I didn't really experience her side until, of course, I experienced it, because that was one of the things my daughter said, was, I don't want to live in this family anymore, and so, yeah, and so calling my mom and expressing to her that, you know, I experiencing, you know, I feel like I experienced your hurt, and we had never had any conversations ever about that period of time or any of it, and it was like this huge opening for us to heal something. And we have a great relationship, but we just don't talk about that one thing, and now we've been able to work through it. And I just feel, and it's, it was just such talk about a gift, right? Like, this huge meltdown, this yucky high school transition, like, it just felt so heavy and hard, but it was, you know, it was such an opening for me and my mom, and I've told my daughter as well, like I let her in on all of that, and it was just such a gift. So I just, I'm so grateful for the work that you do and and that you support parents in looking at their relationships this way. Because I think that we can live on the surface of, you know? Oh, here's the formula for having a tantrum. Here's the formula for getting the homework done. You know, the 123, magic. But it's so much more powerful and forwarding to get underneath that into the actual human and spiritual connection, which is the relationship that we have with our kids. So thank you so much for your work. Well, thank

Jennifer Griffin 34:44
you for sharing. I learned more about the story, and that is very powerful. And I love how generational generation patterns work themselves out. And I'm interested in another book, which I would love to include that story and. A book I'm working on called Understanding generational patterns as a gift. Oh yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 35:04
you got it, no problem. So if listeners are new to this, if this still feels a little like, whoa, I'm I don't this is the first time I've heard anything like this, but I want to play with it and put it into practice. What would you suggest for someone who maybe is listening to the podcast right now and wanting to take some first steps into this, expressing emotion and connecting with the tan you know, the behavior at hand and our own experience.

Jennifer Griffin 35:36
Well, on my website, there's a questionnaire, a channeling questionnaire, to see if your child at any age. This is really applies to from, you know, newborns to teenagers. At spiritual giftinstitute.com There's an article in elephant journal that summarizes and gives you seven steps to embracing your child as a spiritual gift, I think, or tantrums as a gift. I think you can just look up Jennifer Griffin elephant journal, and it'll come up. And of course, in my book, Understanding your child as a spiritual gift is available on Amazon and gives many practical hands on. It explains how to do EMDR in the book, so that you can walk away doing that, and it has a lot of other techniques that you can use. It has a chapter about the chakras and healing exercises for you and your child to do to balance your chakras. It has the list I was talking about, the chart of different behaviors and what might be going on with you, with you

Casey O'Roarty 36:42
beautiful I'll make sure that all those links are in the show notes. Listeners, you can find them in the show notes. Well, my final question to you, that I always end my show with is, in the context of claiming our authenticity and expressing our emotions, what does joyful courage mean to you? Jennifer,

Jennifer Griffin 37:01
well, in terms of this process of discovering, channeling, it means to go forward with joy and courage, not guilt, celebrate it, embrace it, as I talked about before, grab your partner, grab someone, when your kid is having a fit, and say, This is what I'm thinking. And I'm thinking this and maybe this, and I felt this, and try to go through all the different ideas that might be going on. And depending on your relationship with your child, some parents choose to share this dynamic with their child, and other parents don't. It can be very powerful that if your child knows this is going on, they can Arcada now can come to us after she's knitting and reading a book on tape in her room and say, I'm really mad out of nowhere, like I was completely happy. I love the book I'm listening to. Something's not right with dad. And will you call him and ask him what you know, like, say, I'm really mad, or I really hate this, or I just, and she's like, and, and it's not, I don't know why, so I would just say it's fun. It is fun. It's it's a different kind of fun than a lot of people might be used to, but it's fascinating. It's absolutely fascinating when you start taking this perspective. I mean, it's hard for me to I mean, I go out and talk to people and, you know, I'll be at a cocktail party or something, and someone's kid, and I'll say something that I'm like, Hmm, and then I watch the person's reaction. I don't think they're very happy with something I might have said, and their kid will come up and start tugging at them and be like, I want

Casey O'Roarty 38:43
to go. I want to go right now.

Jennifer Griffin 38:45
I want to leave. I was right about that. It's hard for me not to see once you wake up into this way of viewing the world, it's really quite fascinating. So meet it with joyful courage.

Casey O'Roarty 38:59
Awesome. Yeah, I'm so excited to explore further with you and with insight of your resources. So like I said, everybody, the links will be in the show notes. Are you on social media? Jennifer, is there places where we can follow you?

Jennifer Griffin 39:14
I am on Facebook at Jennifer Griffin, author, okay, and I'm also on Twitter at spiritual gift. XO,

Casey O'Roarty 39:25
beautiful. Okay, well, thank you so much for taking time to come on the show. I really appreciate it. Oh, thank

Jennifer Griffin 39:31
you so much. Casey, I had a great time.

Casey O'Roarty 39:37
Joyful courage. Community, you are amazing. Big thanks and love to my team, including producer Chris Mann at pod shaper. Please be sure to join in the discussion over at the live and love with joyful courage Facebook group as well as the joyful courage business page on Facebook and Instagram. Subscribe to the show through Apple podcast Spotify. Google Play, iHeartRadio, or really, anywhere you find your favorite podcasts, you can view the current joyful courage programs and my coaching offers over at the webpage, simply head to www.joyfulcourage.com to find more support for your conscious parenting journey. If you want to give back to the show, and I really hope you do become a patron. Click donate on the website to give back to the show that gives you so much. Any comments or feedback about this episode, or any others can be sent to [email protected] I personally read and respond to all the emails that come my way. Reach out, take a breath. Drop into your body, find the balcony seat and trust that everything is going to be okay.

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