Eps 145: Deborah Reber is on Talking About Raising Differently Wired Kids

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Casey O'Roarty 0:00
Music. Hey everybody, welcome to the joyful courage podcast, a place for information and inspiration on the conscious parenting journey. Conversations you'll hear on this show are all intended to offer you tools for moving forward, expanding your lens and shifting your narrative to one of possibility, connection and empowerment. When we bring deep, listening, acceptance and courage to our relationships, we are doing our part to evoke it in the world. I am thrilled to partner with you on this path. Hi podcast listeners. I am really excited to welcome today's guest on to the show, Deborah Reber, mother of an autistic son, is well aware that parenting an atypical child in a conventional world is often a lonely and difficult journey fueled by a desire to change that. She founded tilt parenting in 2016 as a first step in shifting the conversation and to help parents find more peace, joy and support along the way, she began with a weekly podcast, and that movement has grown into a thriving global community dedicated to embracing and supporting who their kids are, no matter what you dedicated listeners will remember Debbie from coming on way back on episode 54 I'm so so glad that you're back on the show. Hi, Debbie, welcome.

Deborah Reber 1:30
Hi Casey, thank you so much for having me back.

Casey O'Roarty 1:33
Yeah, will you please remind the listeners a little bit more about you and tilt parenting and how it led to your new book?

Deborah Reber 1:41
Yeah, absolutely. So. I am the mother of one child. I now have a teen in the house. My son, Asher, is 13, and he is what I describe as being differently wired. And by that, I mean that he is developing in a way that's neuro different. It's considered to be atypical from a quote, unquote, normal or typical experience or brain wiring. And for him, that means that he's gifted. He has ADHD, and he has Asperger's and so over the years, and raising a kid who doesn't quite fit in, you know, to especially in the educational system, kind of threw us off as young parents of this child, and realizing this is not really what our friend experience looks like. You know, we muddled our way through to figure out what was going on with him, how he could be supported, and getting him the kind of education he needs. And it's been a really long, arduous, often lonely journey. And so I founded till parenting a couple years ago, because as I learned more about how to kind of become what I call fluent in who Asher is, and really more embrace my role in parenting him, I felt really compelled to provide support for other parents like me, because it's hard to know what to do when you realize your kid is atypical. There's nothing, maybe even visible with that going on with them that other people wouldn't realize what's going on. And so we feel a lot of stigma and overwhelm and and isolation, shame, all kinds of things. So tilt parenting is for other parents like me to give them inspiration information in the form of the podcast interviews that I do, and I'm really hoping it sparks a movement so that neurodiversity is more embraced so our kids can be more seen for who they are, so they can grow up into, you know, being fulfilled adults who can really share their incredible gifts with the world and so differently wired is kind of like the manifesto in book form. It's really my way of sharing with the world. You know, this is a huge generation. We've got of atypical kids growing up in the world today, and we're really going to miss out if we don't figure out how to support them in realizing their best selves. So that's I'm hoping the book starts a new conversation as well as gives parents lots of tools and strategies for how to create more peace in their own parenting lives. Yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 4:27
and I, I'm really hearing you. You know, in my own work with clients with differently wired kids, that loneliness coming up and and that's painful. It's

Deborah Reber 4:41
so painful. And in fact, you know, as we're recording this, there was a viral video that a comedian Dina Blizzard posted earlier this week. She had just come out of an IEP meeting, which is, if listeners aren't aware, that's an IEP is an individualized education plan that. Parents like me often have so our kids can get accommodations so and be successful in school. And she came out of an IEP meeting and went to her car, proceeded to, you know, kind of break down, and she recorded a Facebook live video just really vulnerably sharing what she was going through. And that sense of, you know, sitting in your car alone, crying, and, you know, I know that feeling, I've been there, and, you know, it was shared over 100,000 times as of two days ago. And everyone's like, yep, been there. You know, we're, there's so many of us kind of suffering in silence. And it's, it's, it's a sad thing, because, again, we're parents like me, are everywhere. Our kids are everywhere.

Casey O'Roarty 5:46
Yeah, and I'm thinking about, you know, the ways that it's really common now to see wheelchair ramps at buildings, in buildings, and the ways that we're making the world more accessible to people who have physical challenges as far as navigating the world. And what I'm thinking about too is, you know, our world is not and your byline of your book, raising an exceptional child in a conventional world, deconstruct that a little bit like when we talk about the conventional world, I'm guessing that what you mean there is a world that isn't necessarily laid out well for either parents of differently wired kids or the kids themselves.

Deborah Reber 6:33
Yeah. I mean, you nailed it, you know, especially with I love that you brought up the the wheelchair ramps. And, you know, I talk about this idea that a lot of our kids have what are known as invisible differences. So oftentimes, you know, no one does, you know, really understand what's going on. So there can be a lot of just misunderstanding and intolerance and judging when our child does something that is unexpected or considered inappropriate, but beyond that, we you know, especially for kids and education is such a big part of their life, right? That's kind of their big their main job, to play and to learn and the system, it's kind of a one size fits all, and there's very little room for kids that don't fit into the norm, or that don't maybe read social cues, or they, you know, they regulate differently. And so we end up trying to force these kids to try to fit into a system that really doesn't have any, you know, it doesn't, it's not designed for them. And, you know, change in the education system is something, you know, it's a big task. It's not going to happen overnight. But that's just one of the big problems in terms of the conventional world. You know, there is a there are benefits to fitting inside the box. There are benefits to being perceived as typical, even, even in a world where we want our kids to, you know, win the trophies and, you know, be top of their class in this great you know, we want them to stand out, but at the same time, we don't want them to stand out too much. There's a lot of benefit in still fitting into the construct of normal. And so when you have these kids who are, you know, and exceptional really just means, you know, the exception, right? So when you have kids who are exceptional because they're gifted and, you know, maybe they're doing fine in school, but they are bored, they're emotionally disengaged, they're struggling, you know, socially. And then to kids with learning differences, or kids with ADHD, like my kid who has to move constantly and is kind of a disaster in a classroom. So there's so many of us trying to constantly make tweaks or find ways to make this fit, you know, and I talk about the square peg kid in the round hole, but that's what we're trying to do when, when we're trying to find a path for these, these kids in a world that just wasn't designed to support them.

Casey O'Roarty 9:13
Yeah, and do you think, I mean, I think that there is, even when we're talking about the quote, typical developing kid, it's a kid like it's, it's still this one view, right when I think about even just simply boys in the classroom, and this is such a big conversation, but I think it's so important for all of us to be talking about this, because there are so many places where all of our Kids, regardless of where they fall on that great big spectrum, from one end, you know, whatever typical is, to all the way out to the other end. There's so much variance there. And I think any system that expects everybody to show up the same way, yeah.

And sees deviation of that as being, you know, mischief making or naughty is. So it's just it doesn't help any child, you know, I've got one that has this big personality. I mean, he, you know, not the same different flavor of what you've got at your house. But, you know, for him, it's just kind of being. He's a he's got a big personality, and he's a little bit of a showman. And, you know, listening to the ways that he feels like his teachers don't like him, and having a conversation with him about, okay, well, I want you to be your fullest expression, while also recognizing that the leaders in the classroom have a job to do, which is to teach and holding that space of you know, just helping him develop in situational awareness and but also not being in the assumption that That is something he even can understand. How old is your he's 12. He's in sixth grade. He's

Deborah Reber 11:05
12. Okay, yeah, yeah. I mean, as you were talking about that, you know, brought to mind Susan Kane's book, quiet, right? And just the way, you know her, she really broke open the conversation about introversion versus extroversion, and how introversion is one of those things that has been really seen as, you know, almost a deficit, you know, well, you know, you get comments and on a report card that so and so isn't speaking up much in class or, you know, and that's a bad thing. So I think there is a tendency to idealize or, you know, you know, there is this one way that this should look, and they, you know, you're absolutely right. I mean, I think there is no normal anymore, right? So, and even though there are plenty of kids who are able to make their way through the current educational system relatively unscathed, it doesn't mean that they're thriving in it, you know, I think there are probably a lot fewer kids than we realize that are actually really, really thriving in the way that they're being taught. And the many of them are just, they're just overcome, you know? They're just figuring out a way to do it on their own terms. Yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 12:17
yeah, definitely. I Hey everybody, I'm just popping in here to encourage you to give back to the show that you love so much. The joyful courage podcast is fully funded by its listeners and by the people that say yes to joyful courage offers. There is no other way for me to make a living other than for you all to say thank you. Through contributing to the podcast or investing in the work of joyful courage, I have a new way for you to be in contribution. It is a Patreon page, a page where you can become a patron of the show for as little as one or five or $10 a month, you can give back to the show that gives you so much. Head on over to www, dot P, a t r e o n.com/joyful, courage. That's w, w, w. Dot P, A, T, R, E, O, N, slash, joyful courage and decide which level of contribution works for you and your family. Thank you so much for being a part of the impact that joyful courage makes on the world. I love you. I just really appreciate your work and your the shift in paradigm that you talk about, both, like when we're talking education and the systematic pieces. And I think there's a lot of overlap of our audience, but I'm guessing that tip, you know, I have more of an audience of the you know, whatever it means to say, typically developing. And I love that we're both talking about getting to know our kids like you say, becoming fluent in their language, focusing on relationship, helping them to build the skills that they need right to be thriving, paying attention. I I've been talking a lot about this, paying attention to the messages that you're intentionally and sometimes unintentionally sending so talk a bit about what shows up that's unique for parents of differently wired kids.

Deborah Reber 14:32
I think for us, you know, and I think maybe it's a more extreme form of everyday parenting, right? So I don't, you know, I think we're dealing with a lot of the same things, but maybe just on a little a more intense level. Because in addition to our own insecurities as parents, you know that, I think we all have like, Am I doing this wrong? Am I screwing up my kid? And you know what's going to happen, and our worries about the future and all. That step, we have this additional pressure on us. Of, you know, getting the message that they're not doing this right? They're not fitting in here. You need to find a new school. They're playing by themselves in the playground. They're not reading when they should be. You know, there's, there's all these other pieces. So I think for so many of us, it triggers our insecurities. It brings up our baggage. It help. It makes us feel like we're we don't have a lot of choice. And you know, as a parent, that's that's not a great feeling like we want to. We all want to feel that everything is available to us and to our children, right? Anything is possible. We're in the driver's seat in terms of what this is going to look like, and the parenting philosophy that I'm going to raise my child with, and all of these pieces. And so I think for a lot of us, those things just look different, you know? And when I when Asher was younger, I used to I'm an avid reader of parenting books. I have many, many. And it's kind of funny, if you look at my bookshelf, you can see the progression of, like, discovering more and more about what exactly we needed. But, you know, I would read the books everyone else is reading, and the same strategies would not be working in my house and and so for me, I was like, Oh, I really suck at this, you know, and I think we have to battle our insecurities maybe a little bit more, because what we're doing isn't necessarily working. And as our kids get older, and that becomes more evident, and for a lot of kids, it's in the elementary school years, when their same age peers are, you know, maturing and and developing on a more typical timeline, and our kids behavior, or the way they're showing up starts to stand out more like it starts getting pretty uncomfortable. So we have to to do a lot of work on ourselves to stop really caring about what other people are thinking and to face our own, our own baggage.

Casey O'Roarty 17:05
Well, I mean, that is, that's, that is the that's the work of this lifetime, right? I love I love that. And then it shows up for all of us too. And so when you, as we talk about kind of those parenting books, and because I have people that come through my classes and with a variety of different things happening at their house, and they'll say, Well, what does this look like for my child? Right? And I'm very transparent about not being an expert on any one particular child, right? I know a lot about positive discipline. I have my own experiences and my own learning. So as you navigate information, right, as you navigated information and got more clear, both on what Asher's, you know, information about Asher as well as information from the outside world around parenting style and tools and strategies. How did you what was useful to you and merging those two things in a way that was helpful?

Deborah Reber 18:11
Yeah, I would say some. I just started to learn how to take what I could get and leave the rest behind. And, you know, kind of stop expecting, you know, this book, to solve all our challenges. You know, I think that's just the way I've, I have always in the past, approach things like, you have a problem, you find the right resource, you follow what they suggest. Boom, problem solved. And I had to learn painfully, that that wasn't the case and that, and again, I'm not I just want to be clear to listeners, like I'm not suggesting that if you're raising a neurotypical kid, you're not going through this too. I totally get this is, this is what we're all dealing with. And I think you know, for me, it's just, yeah, it's been learning how to take the information, apply what I can in my own life, and let the rest go. I will say, you know that. And we talked about this during our last conversation, that positive discipline, you know, that book in particular, we went through that book with an educator who is, you know, trained in positive discipline, and she went through that book with my husband and I. We did a Skype sessions, you know, chapter by chapter, and she helped us take the learnings from that book and apply it to our own situation. And that was incredibly helpful. And that book in particular, really sparked a shift in how I related to Asher and how I kind of approached just, you know, conflict resolution and on all of that. So enlisting some help has been helpful as well, just to help me figure out how to apply concepts to my own situation.

Casey O'Roarty 19:59
Yeah. You tell Can you give us a little bit more about that experience with positive discipline?

Deborah Reber 20:06
Yeah, I think I just, and it was a couple of years ago, maybe four or five years ago, but I learned to just be more, I think just respectful was, like the number one thing I start, I started, and this is when we were going through a period of time where the behavior that I was, you know, that Asher was expressing because he didn't have the skills to do differently, was pretty intense and and I was learning how to homeschool him, and it was a pretty, pretty difficult time in general. But through that, I learned how to just be so much more respectful, and how I kind of saw him as his own autonomous being, and to honor his experience and what he was feeling. And, you know, that empathy piece and to really, you know, sit down with him and realize that, you know, I don't have it up anymore, but I had a chart on my wall where it described, you know, and I'm sure you're very familiar with this chart. It described, you know, if your child is doing this then, and you're feeling this way, that this is what's really going on. And so for me, that having that kind of code to decipher his information and realize that

the behavior was all information, and this isn't personal, and it really just helped me step take a step back and not Feel get so emotionally engaged myself and be able to shift into respectful, collaborative problem solving. So it really did. It was kind of an instant game changer for me.

Casey O'Roarty 21:52
I love, you know, and I appreciate your disclaimer of knowing that we you know, parenting is a challenge, regardless of the details. But I really am appreciating, I feel like there are so many bridges that are built when we start to see each other as in, it together, versus, oh well, you're a mom of that kind of child, and I'm a mom of this kind of child, and having this idea that there's separation, I'm really appreciating where, you know, where the pool is, that we're all we're all together. And as a mom of a of, I guess, typically developing children, you know, what do you want me to know? How can I in my community, in my kids school, and the relationship that I'm forming with other parents in my work. How can I be more of an advocate and more inclusive of all parents?

Deborah Reber 22:51
That's such a great question, and I so appreciate you asking that, because I really believe that we all need to be involved in this together. You know, this isn't something for just parents like me to take on, but I think that everyone can play a part. And a couple of my suggestions would be, and this is a suggestion I have for parents raising atypical kids too, is to start really becoming aware of where we might be judging. You know, I judge too, like, I'm, you know, we all do right? But just recognizing, you know, if you're hearing that little judgy voice in your head, especially if you see something happening, you know, in in public, where, you know, maybe some, you know, young teen boy just mouths off at his mom, or, you know, something that you're just like, almost horrified, like, oh my gosh, I can't believe she lets them talk to you, or whatever is going on. Or someone needs their screens. You know, their kids are on screens at a restaurant, and, well, gosh, we don't do that. My kids aren't allowed screen. You know, I think it's just, it's natural to do that. And so I think that's one thing, is just to start becoming aware of when you're doing that and remembering, you know, if a kid is displaying behavior that seems inappropriate or kind of off in some way, it's because they don't have the skills to do anything differently yet. And they're, they're, they're an atypical kid, and so what they need is compassion. What the parents need is not judgy looks. But you know, let me know if you need anything, you know. So I think just that alone, I feel could make a really big difference, because energetically, that changes things out in the world. Another thing that I I'm a really big believer in the fact that kids, especially when they're little, you know, preschool years, they recognize and notice trends, and they don't really assign connotation to things. There's no negativity or positivity to differences. A lot of the times, it's just like, oh, well, that's what this person does. Oh, this kid does this, you know, and I, I think it's really important that. As adults, as educators, as parents, that we talk openly about neuro differences, so that rather than these kids, you know, looking wide eyed at some child's kind of what might look like, out of control behavior, and thinking, wow, they're really bad. They're bad listener. They're not in circle time or whatever, you know. Let's talk about it, you know, what? Oh, and so their brain works in such a way that moving is the way that they calm their body down, you know. And kids would be like, Oh, okay, that's kind of cool, you know. Like, I think bringing kids into the conversation, and we lead in that, as teachers, as parents and talking openly without using shaming or judging language. But just, you know, this is a difference. This is we're all working on things. Everybody does things differently, and this is how this person doesn't isn't that interesting, you know? And then even enlisting kids to be allies, I really feel like if we could do that when kids are young and it's never too late to start, don't get me wrong. But you know, when we get when the kids grow up and are in those middle school years and those years when atypical kids really are targets for bullying and can really sink to low places Emotionally, I think that would make a really big difference if it wasn't seen as an aberration, but just a difference and who these kids are?

Casey O'Roarty 26:25
Yeah, what a gift to the world to raise. I mean, I can't even imagine, like, the level of peace that would be experienced if our children were raised just seeing seeing others as different with no judgment, right? I think that that's a really profound way to be. And I and, you know, and I'm also thinking, there's the neurodiversity, there's trauma, there's so many things. There's just simple modeling at home. There's so many things to consider and to have conversations about with our kids when they, you know, are voicing, oh well, so and so did this in the classroom, and it was really weird, or it was really disruptive, or it was really whatever. And being able to say and be curious and and to model that non judgment, I think, is so huge, because that judgment piece is where we like, I just already said this, but judgment is where we create separation, and when it's us and them, there's no room for compassion and seeing ourselves in others when we're in judgment and we're in separation. So I just, I really, really appreciate your work, both in educating me, but also giving a voice to so many people. And I hear from people all the time, Deborah, that are like, Oh, I heard about you from tilt parenting. Or people will say, Oh my gosh, you have to interview Debbie Reber. And I'm like, I already did, like, I got you, you know, so just, you know, so much thanks for the voice that you're giving to so many people. Oh,

Deborah Reber 27:58
thank you so much. I feel so honored to be doing this work and to be connecting with seriously, the coolest, bravest parents all over the world. It's super I'm just super grateful.

Casey O'Roarty 28:10
Is your book out yet? When

Deborah Reber 28:11
does it come out? So my book is out on June 12, yay. And I'm so excited. I am going to be coming to the US and doing some book tour stops, which I can't wait to like be. I live in Amsterdam, so I can't wait to be like in the same room with people and touch people, you know, have some hugs and and connect. I'm really excited. And this book is not just for parents with differently wired kids. I really hope to get it in the hands of as many educators as I can, who I have so much respect for, and I feel like they can be such good allies, you know, for us, if they have a better understanding of what's happening in our kids worlds, in our family's lives. And then also, as you said, you know, parents of typical kids, we need you. We need all the help we can get to to ship this paradigm.

Casey O'Roarty 29:03
Yeah, remind listeners where they can find you and follow all the good things that you're doing, please. So

Deborah Reber 29:09
best place is my website, is tilt parenting.com, that's where you can find all the old podcasts. You can actually download sample the first chapter from the book, and I'm gonna have some really awesome pre order goodies up soon as well. And and then I'm also, we have a pretty active Facebook group, which is facebook.com/tilt parenting. And I'm also on Instagram, which I love, at tilt parenting. And I'm kind of newer to Twitter and but I'm starting to really dig that. And I'm also there at so parenting, awesome,

Casey O'Roarty 29:42
awesome. Well, in the context of parenting differently wired kids, what does joyful courage mean to you? Debbie,

Deborah Reber 29:52
yeah, you know I I just keep thinking bravery. I think that parents, parents who are raising kids who are moving through. World a little differently. Have to be brave, even when they don't feel brave. And, you know, so I would say going back like, keep going back in, you know, when we have a bad day, and showing up and being present with bravery, presence and bravery, presence has been the thing that has changed my experience with Asher more than any other tool, and it's in the presence that I've been able to find joy in our parenting together. And yeah, so that that's my answer,

Casey O'Roarty 30:33
yay. Well, thank you so much for taking time to come on.

Deborah Reber 30:37
Thank you so much for having me. Casey. It was so fun to talk about this with you.

Casey O'Roarty 30:45
Joyful courage community, you're amazing. Big. Thanks and love to my team, including my producer, Chris Mann at pod shaper. Be sure to join in the discussion over at the live in love with joyful courage group page, as well as the joyful courage business page on Facebook and Instagram. Subscribe to the show through Apple podcasts, or really, anywhere you find your favorite podcast, you can view the current joyful courage swag over at the web page, intention, cards, bracelets. E course offers the membership program one on one, coaching. It's all waiting for you to take a look. Simply head to www dot joyful courage.com/yes. That's joyful courage.com/y. E, S to find more support for your conscious parenting journey. Any comments or feedback about this show or any others can be sent to Casey at joyful courage.com. I personally read and respond to all the emails that come my way. Reach out, take a breath, drop into your body, find the balcony seat and trust that everyone is going to be okay.

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