Eps 118: Tosha Schore Talks About How We Can Parent Our Boys For A More PEACEFUL World

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Casey O'Roarty 0:00
Joyful courage parenting podcast episode 118

Hey friends, welcome back to the joyful courage podcast, a place for information and inspiration on the conscious parenting journey. I'm your host. Casey o'brdy, positive discipline trainer and parent coach. I am thrilled, as usual, that you are taking the time to listen in. Be sure to listen after the interview. I have some exciting things to share then and calls to action that I don't want you to miss out on if you find yourself listening to this, pulling over to take notes, not getting out of your car in the garage, because you want to keep listening, nodding your head or resonating with what you are about to hear. Do me a favor. Share the show with the people in your life, the other parents that you know put it on social media, talk to strangers about it. Your sharing is the reason that I can continue to come back and continue to invest my time and energy into putting this resource out for you. Pay it forward. Please share it. Share it. Share it. Thank you. You music.

So before we get into what the topic is for today and the interview, I would love to share with you a new podcast. Well, it's not a new podcast, but it might be a new podcast to you, and it's called what fresh hell, and it's one of those really real, really raw, really funny, co hosted shows talking about the experience of being a mom, the experience of being a parent. And I have the CO hosts of the show here to let you know a little bit about what it is that they're bringing out to the world. So listen in.

Margret Abels 2:08
Hi everybody. This is Margaret Abels, and this is Amy Wilson, and together, we are the CO hosts of the podcast. What fresh hell laughing in the face of motherhood. We're so happy that Casey gave us the chance to introduce ourselves to all of you, joyful courage listeners,

Amy Wilson 2:23
we like to say that the wet, fresh help podcast solves today's parenting dilemmas, so you don't have to in each episode, Meg and I discuss a parenting issue from what are usually our completely opposite approaches. Well,

Margret Abels 2:35
yes, and that I laid back and Amy is not

Amy Wilson 2:39
but then the thing is, I always come in with some expert advice that may or may not back me up or Margaret up.

Margret Abels 2:45
Importantly, I'm unwilling to prepare for the show, and Amy comes in with a lot of statistics, so I sometimes do lose the argument. We

Amy Wilson 2:51
talk about it, we laugh about it, we call out each other's nonsense, which for me, can be very useful. And then then we come up with some concrete solutions before we're done. And we

Margret Abels 3:00
talk about all sorts of stuff. We talk about, like the homework, the homework slog. We talk about birthday parties. We, especially me, agree on important issues like how party favor bags should be constitutionally eliminated from all birthday parties.

Amy Wilson 3:14
There's no two sides. There's no There's no two sides of that debate. So

Margret Abels 3:17
don't listen if you're pro goodie bags. Just don't listen to our podcast. It's not for you. We love to connect with our listeners. Our listeners on our Facebook page, just search for what freshhell podcast on Facebook and our website, what freshhellpodcast.com

Amy Wilson 3:28
I'm going to toot our own horn and read from my favorite review of our podcast is that okay, toot away listening to this podcast is like having coffee with friends who did a bunch of research about something that you're worried about. It makes me feel better to listen to them, because I learn new things, and I'm reminded that we're all struggling with the same issues. So I'm in a way better mood after spending time with Amy and Margaret.

Margret Abels 3:49
That's so nice. I'm not always in a way better mood after spending time with myself. So I'm glad someone else is Listen, guys. We hope you'll listen and become part of our community. Check us out at what freshhellpodcast.com you My

Casey O'Roarty 4:03
guest today is a returning guest. Tasha shore is on and she is bringing a burst of energy and optimism to parenting, and she will lift your parenting confidence. She is an expert at simple solutions to what feels like overwhelmingly complicated problems and today, well, the reason I reached out to Tasha. Tasha has a specialty. She is raising three boys, and she has created a community for those of us that are also raising boys. She is committed to creating a more peaceful world, one sweet boy at a time, and through her online and in person offerings, she supports parents to care for themselves, connect with their boys deeply set loving limits and to play wildly. Tasha is a. Hand in Hand parenting trainer, and has co authored a book with hand in hand's founder, Patty whippler, called Listen, five simple tools to meet your everyday challenges. And she has a wildly popular 10 day program called parenting boys peacefully free 10 day reconnect. And is also offering a new online course called out with aggression. I'm going to give you links to find Tasha at the end of the show, but I want to let you know what my reason is for wanting to bring Tasha in right now. You know if you are on social media or paying attention to the news. There is a lot going on right now around sexual assault and sexual harassment. I am raising both a boy and a girl. So on one hand, what keeps coming through my mind is, how do I keep my daughter safe. How do I teach my daughter to keep herself safe? You know, that whole conversation, on the other hand, I'm thinking about, how do I hold space for my son so that he is recognizing the wholeness of females and girls? How can I help him not to be harassing or assaulting anybody. How I can open conversations with him around what is happening in the world. And it feels really big, and it feels complicated. And, you know, it's really easy to go to the extreme in our fear and the what ifs and it's I also know at the same time that that's not helpful, and so I immediately thought of Tasha when I thought about having a conversation about our Boys around supporting them, right, supporting them in developing relationships with other boys and advocating for the girls right in consent like these, conversations are a must. And by the way, I have yet to circle up in a room full of women and not have the conversation land on you know, my partner isn't emotionally available, or I wish my partner would just talk to me about how he's feeling or get vulnerable. And the reason that our men are showing up that way is because of their conditioning. And conditioning has to do with parenting, right? Conditioning has to do with how we show up for our boys and so anyway, this is why I'm so excited about this podcast interview, because Tasha and I are gonna peel apart and tease out all of it, and I think that you're really gonna feel empowered To raise sons that are champions for themselves and champions for the girls and the women in their life. So how about I stop talking and we'll get on with the interview. Hi Tasha, welcome back to the podcast.

Tosha Schore 8:12
Hey Casey, thank you for having me on again.

Casey O'Roarty 8:15
So glad that you're back. Please remind the listeners about your journey of doing what you do.

Tosha Schore 8:22
Hmm. Okay, well, so online, I'm Tasha shore, your partner in parenting, and I partner with parents to help their young boys thrive and to help them thrive as well. My mission, as I have chosen to accept it, is to create a more peaceful world, one sweet boy at a time. And essentially, what I'm doing is I'm working with parents to stay super close to their kids, to throw out the punishments and rewards, and instead, to move towards their little boys and help them grow into emotionally intelligent men, and thereby creating a more peaceful world.

Casey O'Roarty 8:57
Yay, and you're a mom of many boys.

Tosha Schore 8:59
Oh, yeah, I forgot about that. I've got three boys. Yeah, they're pretty big. Now, my big guy's 15, and I got an almost 13 year old and a 10 and a half year old, believe it or not. Yeah, it's crazy, because, like, my my 15 year old is, he's like, six one at least, like, I look up to him, it's crazy. Yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 9:20
that's starting to happen. My just turned 12 year old. I We're eye level, we're eye to eye, and it won't be long till he passes me by, that's for sure. Yep, yep. I am so excited to have you on to talk about our boys. I feel like there's a lot on my mind, one being the hashtag me too campaign that's been, well, I see it on social media, and it's and for listeners who don't know have missed that, it's this. It's basically an invitation for women to share their stories or share in solidarity around experiences of sexual harassment and assault and and. As the mother of both a daughter and a son, I'm swinging from feeling a sense of hopelessness for how things are, and we talked before I hit record about culture, and so I'm interested in hearing like you are. You're in Israel, right? Yeah, I'm in Israel. So I'm interested in hearing your perception of this me too campaign versus how it feels over here with all the craziness that's happening culturally. So I'm swinging from this hopelessness place and then into this passion to lead a generation of parents who are teaching their children, especially their boys, something different. What has been your experience with all of the news about sexual harassment and assault that's been super everywhere in the States?

Tosha Schore 10:50
Yeah, it's been super everywhere. Everywhere. Actually, I wasn't even in Israel. I was I just get back from, got back from a week in Romania where I was at a parenting retreat there, and also doing some publicizing of our book. So I was there, and actually one evening there, I did in Bucharest, and I did a press conference, and there were about 25 parent bloggers there, and one woman actually asked a question about it. Now she's like, Well, what do we do? I think the same question that we all have parents of boys is like, Okay, we feel solidarity with these women. We are women. I don't think there's any woman who hasn't experienced some kind of, you know, inappropriate, sexual, you know, attention of some sort, whether it whether it's just attention or it's, you know, all the way to the other end of the spectrum of being, you know, harassment or rape or whatnot. So we're all in this together. But what do we do with with our boys? Right? Because here we have these little guys, and we love them, and we know they're amazing, and we also know that the pressures of culture and media all around them are heavy, and we need to find a way to help them grow into emotionally intelligent men and who can make good decisions, who don't see women as objects, and who don't, you know, commit commit violent acts or inappropriate acts towards women or men, towards anyone, for that matter. So, yeah. So it was, you know, she, she asked a question there in the press conference, and then I came back to Israel, and people here were talking about it as well. So it is definitely a worldwide phenomena. It is not just an American thing. Yeah, it's on everybody's radar. Yeah, it's on his radar. And I will say, you know, it was actually at the at the retreat. Well, let me back up a second. So I recently posted an article on on Huff Post about, I forget what I called it, but essentially something about how to help our boys grow up to be peaceful. And it was response to the shooting in in Las Vegas. But a lot of the tips that I point out in terms of how to help our boys grow up so that they feel connected to themselves and to us, I think, are relevant to this issue as well. So people might want to just check that out, because they're really sort of concrete things, like, you know, spending one on one time with our boys, letting them know that it's okay if they're sad, they can cry like we can. We don't need to shame them or quiet them. We can be there for them. There are a lot of really, really concrete things that I wrote there that I think might be of help to people. And then the other thing I wanted to share is that at this parenting conference that I was at. It was, it was a bunch of parent educators there, and it was amazing. We did this exercise, which I couldn't remember the details of exactly, but we the nitty gritty is like we stood out in a circle outside. There were 26 of us from nine different countries, and we had been talking about sexism, and me too. And then we went outside, and we held hands in the circle. And I want to say that there were 25 women and there was one man. It was quite amazing and touching. And what we were doing was taking turns. We went around the circle and took turns, and without using words, we had an opportunity to just show our power and express our rage. And it was mind boggling. I mean, I don't even know how to explain it. You could pass if you wanted. I actually passed. I couldn't they. I couldn't even make a sound. And I'm not a quiet person. I couldn't even make a sound. And for me, what was happening is that I was just having this tape run in my mind of like, everything that's ever happened to me my whole entire life, you know, from walking down the street as a young girl and, you know, being cat called to from the balcony by some random guy, and being told, Well, if I didn't want to get cat called, then I shouldn't wear shorts. And. Etc. You know that all the way up to waking up in the middle of the night at a friend's house with her uncle laying on top of us and having to get our get out of that. I mean, there's so many things, and everybody has stories. There is not one woman who doesn't have a story. But this, you know, it feels what happens to me is what I'm noticing what happens to me, but what I'm noticing with this, with this me too, is that, you know, there's a lot of anger, and I understand that, and I get it, and there's also a lot of fear, and I understand that too. But what I like to focus on is once we work beyond that, or helping people to work beyond that, and then once we work beyond that, it's like, what do we do? What can we do? I'm pretty pragmatic, and I don't like to be wallowing in the hopelessness of it all, because, yes, there's a lot of horrible stuff going on right now, but what can we do to make a difference? And I think we have an amazing opportunity in raising our boys, yeah, you know, to teach them how how to communicate, how to how to you. Build sort of intimate relationships, deep relationships, meaning, meaningful relationships. How to Understand, I think this is one of the answers to my to the woman who asked that question at the press conference, you know, she said, Well, what do we do? How do we help our boys, you know, not become these people who are committing all these acts that we're posting, me too about and one of the things that came up for me is that I said, You know what? I think that we really need to be teaching our boys that there are lots of ways to be close that aren't sexual. Because I think from what I see from the dads I work with and the men who I know, most of them don't have a lot of options, like they don't see many ways to be close to women if they're heterosexual, other than having sex, other than being sexual, like they just don't know how a lot of them. And so we really want to be teaching our boys that, you know, it's okay to cuddle, and that talking can be intimate, and sharing stories can be intimate, and holding hands can be intimate, and sharing experiences can be intimate. And hiking together in the woods can be intimate. There's lots of ways to feel close to one another,

to you know, to build to build closeness and relationships with other people that are not sexual, and I think that is going to be key to this for this next generation, if we want to see a change.

Casey O'Roarty 17:28
Yeah, well, and I that also brings me to I watched, there's a documentary called The Mask You Live in. Have you seen that?

Tosha Schore 17:36
Yeah, I have several years ago. It was really good. It's

Casey O'Roarty 17:39
really powerful, and it's all about the messages that our boys are getting about masculinity, and messages from media and from music and from other adults in their life, from their parents. And what really strikes even listening to you right now, what really struck me in watching the documentary. It's on Netflix right now everyone so watch it. It's not, you know, I think kids, I would say boys, 1415, could be watching it with you. There are some harsh kinds of images and topics, so you be the judge of that. However, one of the things that the documentary highlights is by middle school, the ways that you know when in talking about intimate relationships boys not really having the tools or the permission, you know, quote, permission, to have intimate relationships with other boys and intimate friendships with other boys, And that's, you know, that's something that's coming up with my son right now. You know, he has his best friends, but when the conversation is, well, does he have your back? You know, my son will say, I, I don't, I don't think so, you know, and and not like, does he have your back? Like, will he back you up in a fight? You know, not that kind of, but like, really, like, can you talk to him? Can you be vulnerable with him? And, you know, and that's, and we've, you know, bumped into that a lot, even in elementary school, where it seemed like there's lots of conversation around, you know, the mean girls, right? And, and how girls navigate friendship. And I feel like there's a stunted conversation with our boys that it really what we're talking about, mostly is, you know, bullying, versus just how do they navigate friendship and and what does it mean to advocate for yourself, not when you're being, you know, bullied, but, I mean, yes, of course, then, but also just when your friend's kind of a dick, you know, like, when it's just simply, like, navigating that whole jockeying for power thing that happens among boys and and it and it, and it kind of breaks my heart, because I've got a kid that's ready to, you know, to have meaningful friendship. And it seems like I. There aren't like the other the you know, he doesn't, it's hard for him to find kids that have those same skills, or even are looking realize they're looking for that.

Tosha Schore 20:09
Yeah? I mean, I know another boy like that. Actually, he's super social. Lots of people around him at school, you know, quite popular. But he says he doesn't have any friends, yeah. And if I ask why, he says, Well, you know, nobody really knows me, like nobody really asks me how I'm feeling, or really wants to hear what's going on with me. So it's interesting. So there's a boy who's like, ready to connect. He's got this emotional, emotional intelligence, but he's struggling to find other boys who can do the same. So we've definitely got our work cut out for us. And I think, I mean, a lot of what's at the crux of my work is really redefining what it means to be masculine and what masculinity is. And I don't think we realize how much we parents have internalized these very traditional interpretations of masculinity as well, right? I mean, like, how many of your listeners and who are in, like, male female relationships have a female as the main income earner, right? Versus male? You know, how many stay at home? Dads are there? How are the roles in our homes divided? You know, who cooks? Who does the emotional parenting work? Who does the yard work? I mean, I think if we just think about this, what are we modeling? What are we modeling for our boys? So a lot of, a lot of what we need to do, I think, is going to come from increasing our own emotional intelligence. You know, what do we what? What are we modeling for them? And also, what do we do when we're upset? What do we do when we're angry? What do we do when we're disappointed, or, you know, do we share with somebody? Do we try to hide it for them and pretend everything's okay? Do we stuff it? Because, on the whole we're still teaching our boys to stuff their feelings most of the time. Yeah. And I know, you know where I am, something recently happened with one of my boys, where he was playing soccer and he, you know, it was a pretty rough game, and somebody from another team, like, just shoved him down, and he, you know, onto his back, and he got the wind knocked out of him, and he got scared and was crying, and got up and, you know, was sitting on the sidelines for a bit, and he was supposed to play a game afterwards, and his coach was like, you know, you're not playing the game afterwards, because you're, you know, You're too sensitive, and you got to, just, like, keep it together. This is, this is just going to happen, and sort of no place for him to process the fear of what just happened. And it's just really sad. There's that was absolutely an appropriate response from him, right? Our bodies want to heal here. He got shoved to the ground. It was a scary thing, both physically and emotionally, and he needed some time. If the coach had just let him sit there cry, you know, for a couple minutes, he could have got back up and played again like that's the healing process, but we're not comfortable with that. We're still not comfortable with that. So we're going to need to get to a place as adults where we feel okay, safe, comfortable, allowing our boys to have their feelings, because a person can only stuff feelings down for so long before they explode. And the more our boys are stuffing their feelings, the more it's impeding their ability to think, well, right? Yeah, so because they're just running on emotion, and that's dangerous, and this is where we get, among other things, sexual assault and inappropriate, you know, sexual moves, if you will. It's not, it's not about, you know, the thinking of an intelligent person. It's just it's just not that. So we need to set our boys up for success, and the way, I think, to do that is to help them develop into beings who who feel comfortable with their full array of emotions, not just with anger, not just you know, those those big feelings that we associate with masculinity, not and we need to change the sense of, like, yes, they need to be strong and they need to be, you know, whatever it is. I don't know all the just stereotypical things. I don't need to repeat them. But they're just, they're all over the media. They're all over the media and even, and, like I said, I think we don't realize how much we're we're modeling these same kinds of things in our homes.

Casey O'Roarty 24:26
Yeah, well, and I think popular culture too. I mean, it makes me feel so old to say this, but oh my gosh, my kids taste in music. I mean, really,

Tosha Schore 24:39
yeah, yeah. And it's just, it's, it's

Casey O'Roarty 24:42
really explicit, and it's, you know, and they talk about this in the Mask You Live in as well. It's masculine, hyper masculinity is counting the Benjamins, you know, sex with the hose. You know, power over everybody. And that's what. That is what success looks like, and so, or like, it's a coach, like your son's coach. I mean, so what are you do you have any thoughts around like, how do we approach each other? Because I think that there's the conversations we're having with our boys, and there's, you know, the conversations that we're having with each other. And on one hand, you know? I mean, there's what the hell dude, you know, don't say that to my boy, you know. And then there's the other place of like, Hey, I'd love to have a conversation with you about about what happened on the soccer field. I mean, what do you suggest as far as how we're in conversation with each other about this stuff, because I think that that's the other piece. Is, you know, they're interacting with all sorts of adults in their life, and just like an adult can have a profound effect on on your resiliency and your self esteem, it can go the other way as well,

Tosha Schore 25:55
right? Well, I feel very strongly about fighting for the right of my boys to have feelings, to be able to have their full array of feelings. And so I have no problem, and I had no problem, you know, going up to the coach and having a conversation with him, and I came and he was very responsive and understood, and, you know, apologized, and, you know, said he was, you know, trying to help him. Because, you know, he basically thought he was saying to me that I thought that this would help him. But obviously it was, it was too harsh for him, and it upset him the way that the coach responded. But he was very responsive to me, and I just said, you know, he that was a totally appropriate response that he had. He was scared. It was a scary thing that happened and and I need it to be okay for him to feel that fear, you know, and move past it and then come back so I don't have a problem going out and talking to all those people. I think we need to stand up for our boys. We need to advocate for their right to feel just like we need to advocate for them in many other areas. And this comes up a lot in school and sports and friendships. We also have to advocate for them to be able to make mistakes and to learn from them. And that's when things get, you know, can get kind of hard and sticky. And I've, you know, I've, I've run into trouble here too, you know, with my kids, with clients, kids issues, where they're, you know, they've made poor decisions. They've made poor decisions. And I think it's important to keep in mind that even if our boys, or I should say when our boys make poor decisions, because they will, we need to remember that they're still good, even though the what they did might not be and we need to figure out how to help them. If we just villainize them, it's not going to help the world at all. It's not going to help the women. It's not going to help anybody. So we need to keep their goodness sort of Top of Mind and then and separate these behaviors that were not okay, and then come in when there's a teachable moment, when they're not in their emotional brain, and have a conversation, but, but, you know, the best way we can, I think, prevent, prevent this type of sexualization of women, is to have these really open conversations when, starting From when the kids are super, super little. I mean, you know, I mean, I literally this. The lyrics are crazy. You were just talking about it, right? I mean, my 10 year old was listening to some song the other day, and it was like, pussy this, and pussy that. And I'm like, Do you know what Pussy is like? Can we talk about this? We're talking about a vagina. And, I mean, like, we had this whole conversation, yeah, we have to talk about it. And, you know, do you think this is okay? And why do you think he's talking about this way? What do you think it means, and how does it make you feel? And, and at this, at that age, he doesn't even know, right? He just like, likes the beat, and he likes to, you know, ride around his house on his little hoverboard thing and do his dance, right? I

Casey O'Roarty 29:06
mean, he's not having the same experience over here,

Tosha Schore 29:09
so it's not registering. It's not like he's like, thinking about pussy or coochie or whatever it is they're talking about. But the point is, is those words are going in, and if he's seen the video, then the images are going in, which I try to not let happen. But you know, we can't protect them from all of that, so we have to start these conversations early. I let them know how I feel about it, and we talk about pornography. I think this is also another issue, and we haven't touched on that yet. I think it's really, really important to be having these conversations about pornography with our children from when they're young, like middle school. I forget what the statistics are, but kids, I mean, if anybody's their teenager, like their high school student, hasn't seen porn, they're wrong,

Casey O'Roarty 29:55
right? Yeah? Well, I've had Amy Lang, yeah, I've got Amy Lang on the show. You know, and she's my go to sex therapy expert, parenting person, yeah, and the statistics are insane, and we've been talking about pornography, you know, like since the kids were young, because kids get on the school bus, as do smartphones, smartphones, you know? I mean, they just have access to everything. So I wanted my kids to know what to do if it came up, right? And so again, those short, frequent conversations, yeah, because it's not normal, it's not normal sex, it's it's slightly, it's intriguing, so it kind of draws you in, and that is understandable,

Tosha Schore 30:41
also be really scary. And it's really scary disturbing. It's very hard to get those images. I mean, there are a lot of you really. There are all sorts of very scary images. There's child pornography, there's animals. I mean, there's all sorts of stuff there that can be very, very scary for adults, but for super scary for children, and then, you know, just the sort of basic pornography. I think it's really important for us to talk to our boys like this is not what a woman's body looks like, what a woman's body looks like. Okay, breasts don't stand up that way. They're generally not that size. Usually they're a lopsided one's often bigger than the other one. Most of us have cellulite at some, you know, someplace on our body, a little belly here and there. I mean, I talked to this and talked to my boys about this, my older boys about it, for sure, yeah, and and there was something else I wanted to say about that. Oh, and that. And I, and I talked to my oldest about it. I said, Look, you know, there is an absolute correlation between, you know, boys who watch porn and sexual dysfunction later on. You know, I say at some point you're going to, you know, love somebody and want to make love. And it has been shown that people who watch a lot of porn have often it can often have a hard time getting an erection, and you don't want to be in a situation where you're with somebody who you love, and you're wanting to have a sexual experience and a healthy sexual experience, and you're not able to so that's also something to think about. And the other thing that I wanted to say about pornography is that I think it's also important for us as mothers to be thinking about what we how we talk about our bodies in front of our boys, how we talk about food in front of our boys, right? Are we walking around going, Oh, I'm too fat, or I'm too this, or I'm not that, or you shouldn't eat that, or I shouldn't. I mean, our kids pick up on all of these things, right? All of these things. And our boys need to know that bodies are beautiful. They come in all shapes and sizes. My 10 year old's reading, it's perfectly normal. You know that that? Do you know that book, the book, it's perfectly normal. It's like, it's when I was a kid, we read. Where did I come from? It's perfectly normal. It's all sort of an updated version of that. It's got a lot of comics in it, and it talks about sex and sexuality, and, you know, gay, lesbian, transgender, bisexual body parts. And it's got sketches of men and women in all different shapes and sizes and and I just want to shower my boys with images of these kinds of things. Like, actually, I was like, I was too tired to read last night to my to my little guy. So he's like, Okay, well, let me read this chapter to you. So then he was explaining the pictures and goes, so now there's kind of a there's like a young, younger girl, and then next to her, there's a girl with a tall, skinny girl, and then there's a girl with kind of a fatter butt, and then there's a girl with it. But it was like, all, like, it was totally non judgment. It was just like describing each other. And there's like, an old woman, you know, and her boobs are kind of low, and like, you know, me, it's just all sort of like, factual, and then, and then on the men, and he's like, and then there's this kind of man, and then there's a strong man. And he stopped, he goes, how come there isn't a strong woman? Ah,

Casey O'Roarty 34:09
great question. Well,

Tosha Schore 34:11
that's interesting. That's a good question. I don't know it was like, sort of an athletic, sort of bodybuilder looking guy, but there wasn't one of those in the women. Is

Casey O'Roarty 34:19
this the book? Is this the book where, when it was our version, there's the one spread with the kid on the diving board with an erection and all the ladies in the pool. Oh, you

Tosha Schore 34:28
know what? I don't I haven't gotten to that page for this one yet, so I'm not sure, actually my older but I remember the most. Yeah, read it a few years ago, and I have, I'm only up to like, chapter two or three right now, because we just got it in the mail. The next one, yeah, he had the one for the younger kids, which he, you know, just whipped through. And now he's like, every day. He's like, did my book come yet? Did my book come? It's fascinating,

Casey O'Roarty 34:53
you know. And I think that it's like, and what I'm hearing you say, Tasha is, is. Is, you know, be in conversation with your boys. Is be okay with being in uncomfortable conversations with the boys. Don't let your discomfort get in the way of providing a space for our boys to be their whole selves. Absolutely, yeah. And I mean, and then I think about So, back to the Yeah, well, and I posted a, you know, and just for the listener's sake, I did. I mentioned Amy Lang, and she posted a really short, awesome video about having conversations about sexual harassment and sexual assault with your girls and boys. And she's so great because she often will provide script, you know, which is helpful when you're uncomfortable, to have the words that you need. And and, you know, and I, and I borrowed from it, for sure, but I think that the other conversation, and it's come up, you know, a lot, is, well, on one hand, you know, I've got a teenage daughter, and when I talk to her about some of the comments that she gets on social media that are really sexual and offensive, you know, little messages that she gets here and there that she tells me about, I say, you know, I'm like, doesn't that bother you? And she said, Mom, it's like, white noise. And that's like, oh God, you know there's that, right? And then there's the conversation of, how do we support our boys in standing up to their friends and saying, Hey, man, you can't say that to her, or it's not okay to say that, or even when the girls aren't present and they're in the quote, locker room, right? Having the having the confidence to stay like it's not okay.

Tosha Schore 36:44
Yeah, you know, I had to have a conversation with one of my boys, I know about maybe a year or two ago, but it was a social media issue, and where he was, there was so many of them. Yeah, they had a group. So in the States, well, in the States, there's not a big WhatsApp thing going on. But here, everybody lives on WhatsApp. I don't even know when I come back to the states, how I'm going to communicate with anybody. You have to talk to them. Do you guys talk to each other? Because here we here, we just WhatsApp. That's it. But anyway, they had a group like for the class, and there was some, you know, not nice stuff going on between some of the kids, and my son was saying

I'd heard about it from the teacher and the parents. We were talking about it how we wanted to deal with it, and we decided we were each going to talk to our children and sort of lay out some guidelines. And my son said, but I'm not doing that. You know? You know I'm not the one who does those things. And I said to him, I understand that. I absolutely get that you're not the one who's doing it, but you're watching it happen, and that's not okay. That is not okay. That is also not okay. So, and I absolutely set a limit there. I said, if you, you know, are wanting to be on this group, that's okay, but you have to be able to stand up for what's right. If you don't think you're going to be able to stand up and, you know, stand up for what's right and and either do it on your own or reach out to me and have me help you do it, then you probably need to step out of that group. Because, you know, I said, if, you know, if you were with your friends walking down the street and somebody came up and started, you know, talking to him, not nice or hitting him, or whatever, would you just walk away and say, Well, you know, I'm not part of it. And he's like, No, and, well, it's the same thing, like, it seems further away, because it's digital, right? But it's not, it's hurtful, and you have to be able to stand up for what's right. So these are messages like, we have to seize the opportunities with our kids, every opportunity we get as they're growing, to be able to show them what it means to stand up and and then it's okay, it's cool. It's a good thing to do, it's the right thing to do. It's not a not cool thing to do, right? And I think there's some there, you know, sort of the culture says, like, oh, you know, it's not cool to, like, help out, or be the, you know, goody two shoes or whatever. But in the end, you know, at the end of the day, I don't actually think that's even how they see it. Like when they see somebody stand up for what's right, they actually do look up to that person. They actually do think it's a good thing. Have you seen that thing on Reddit that's going around right now? No, somebody posted there. This is, like, really amazing story, the sweet story about this woman who went hiking with these two or three guys. I guess usually there were other women who went with her, but there weren't any that day. So she went with these, with these men, and they just sort of, like burly guys and like big hike, hiking all day kind of a thing. And they were had hiked all day, and they're about 20 minutes before the end of the trail, and she got her period, and like, few days early. Her, yeah, sorry, a few days early. And basically what happened is that this, this, she kind of stayed back and was trying to, like, you know, sort of shove her bra on her underwear and try to figure out all these ways to figure out, like, what am I going to do? And like, kind of holding herself and, and one of the guys kind of hung back with her, and was like, you know, do you need to pee? She's like, No. It's like, well, you know, like a period thing. And she was sort of like, Oh my God. She's like, Yeah. And essentially, what happened is that, you know, he had a backpack full of, like, first aid stuff and all this stuff, and he goes, You want tampons or pads? And she's like, tampons. And she goes. And he even had the good kind and, and essentially, like, he gave her tampons, a shirt to tie around her waist, and like, you know, baby wipes to and he said, you know, any, any, and he did it. He covered for her. He said to the other guys, he's like, I'm gonna hang back with her. You know, she cut herself, and, you know, I'm gonna just fix her up, and we'll catch up to you. It'll probably take like, five minutes. And so he came back, and then he, you know, he covered. He did the whole cover for her, gave her the tampon, gave her a shirt to tie, you know, did the whole thing. She went into the bushes, came back, and then he even put a band aid on her arm. I think it was to sort of cover, you know, to have the story. And then they just went on and, you know, finished the thing and got their Uber home. But, like, what a cool guy, yeah? Like, it's masculinity,

Casey O'Roarty 41:28
yeah, right, exactly. That's

Tosha Schore 41:31
like, that was doing the right thing, that wasn't shaming somebody, that wasn't making somebody feel embarrassed, that, I mean, what an amazing role model. Yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 41:40
I love that. Rosalin Wiseman calls it being the champion. The champion is the kid who doesn't get triggered by questions of masculinity, right by other boys. You know, questioning is masculinity. He's the kid that will stand up for others when he sees that something isn't okay, right? He's the one, and he does, and he's also the one that, if he's not part of the crowd, okay, he's gonna do what's right, right?

Tosha Schore 42:06
I want to say one thing, though, that that is not easy to do. I think we realize that, and we also need to think about whether or not we're modeling that right. Okay, when was the last time we stood up for what was right? Like, when we see something go on, that's not right. Do we stand up for it? Do we stand up, you know, for what's right? And I mean, and I I have to say that I generally do, and it's oftentimes uncomfortable for my boys, like they get embarrassed by it. They get embarrassed by it. I mean, now they're kind of used to it, but, but, and I think that's good, because I want them to get used to it. I want them to see that it's the right thing to do and that I don't feel a bit you know, wishy washy about whether or not it's the right thing to do. I go, you know, if this person is being mistreated or needs help or or, you know, and I'm in a position to be able to do it, then that's what I need to do in that moment, even if it makes me, you know, two minutes late to where I need to go, and you're in a rush, right? You know, you're gonna need to wait kind of a thing. So what, what are we modeling? What are we modeling? And it just, so, let me just sort of get to, I don't know, come back to we were talking about a little bit about we're talking about earlier, is that we have to, we have to remember that the boys are good, that they're going to make, they're going to make these mistakes and and and acting the right way and making good choices is a hard thing. Standing up for what's right is harder on the ground than it is, than it is to sort of for you and me to talk about here. It's just like, you know, when we were talking about, sort of having teenagers, you a teenage daughter and me a teenage son, before we got on the call, it's like, okay, it's all good and well, to philosophize about it and read about it, but when it's in your home, like, Oh my God, what's happening here? Right? Passion, compassion as we, as we bumble through this with our

Casey O'Roarty 43:53
little guys, well, and I think what you said was really important, which is, when they make mistakes, when they get into mischief, that these are teachable moments, and the teachable moments only come when they make well, not only but the teachable moments are so powerful when they make mistakes and get into mischief. So don't be so surprised and freaked out when they get into stakes, when they're making mistakes and get into mischief, because it's what they're that's what that's childhood, especially as teenagers, geesh, and it doesn't

Tosha Schore 44:21
mean that they're not accountable. I don't mean to say that they're not accountable for what they do. Like, I don't want to mix up those two things. I don't want to people just like, oh well, she says, Well, they're, you know, just, just, they're good, and so doesn't matter if they do bad things. No, that's not what I mean. I just mean, at their core, they are good, and it's important for us to stay connected to them and not lose sight of that in order to be able to help them through the behaviors that are getting them into trouble. That's what I

Casey O'Roarty 44:44
mean. Yeah, and I think that does a lot to keep us out of fear and rigidity as well. Is staying connected to that good, sweet human, humanness that they have inside of them. Definitely. I'm so glad that you came on. Yeah. Yeah, it's

Tosha Schore 45:00
been super fun. I love talking to you.

Casey O'Roarty 45:02
I know I love it, too. Thank you so so much. Do you have any final thoughts for the listeners before we wrap up today?

Tosha Schore 45:13
I think what's, what's, there's a quotation in my mind that that goes like this, hurt people, hurt people. And I don't remember who said it, but it wasn't me who made it up. I'll just say that, but I think that's what's going on with the boys and the men, is that they're hurt and then therefore hurt they're hurting others. And so I think the way that we stop the hurting is by helping them heal from their hurts. And if we've got little boys, you know, helping them heal from all these little hurts that happen along the way, so that they don't stuff all those feelings up down and end up with these big emotional backpacks of trauma to have to deal with later. Yeah. So yes, I think we're all good, the men the women, and we need to support one another in helping to make this world a safer and more peaceful place, and that's my wish.

Casey O'Roarty 46:06
I will join you in that wish, in the context of all that we've talked about today, what does joyful courage mean to you?

Tosha Schore 46:16
Oh, joyful courage. Well, let's see the I always look at them. I'll actually oftentimes look at your thing. I go, joyful courage, joyful courage. What does that mean? Exactly. What does it mean? What does it mean? Why did she come up with that? I'm not quite sure. Like how I fit these words together, Courage piece, which is, for me, recognizing when we're scared and figuring out how to overcome our fears for or and I guess teaching our children to be able to do the same. And if we're able to do that, then I'll be really joyful,

Casey O'Roarty 47:02
perfect that is just perfect. I love asking that question, because it's always a different response, and on any given day, my response is different. So, yeah, no,

Tosha Schore 47:13
it's great. I love it. Joyful courage. It's just like. It's not. It doesn't make me like. It doesn't like it really opens the opens the opportunity for people to interpret it many different ways.

Casey O'Roarty 47:25
Yeah, totally, it's good. So thank you so much for all that you do for kids and families. Where can the listeners find you and follow your work?

Tosha Schore 47:37
Ah, so the best place to find me is on my website, which is www.tashashore.com, and, yeah, that's where I've got my 10 day reconnect parenting boys peacefully that I run every few months, and that's super, you know, wonderful community of people who are really active and committed to doing this work of creating a more peaceful world, one sweet boy at a time. So that's probably the best place to get started. And the other thing you could do is look for my book that I wrote with Patty whip through the founder of hand in hand parenting. And that you can find either, well, probably the best place to find it is listen the book.com.

Casey O'Roarty 48:21
Okay, and listeners, I'll make sure both of those links are in the show notes. Thank you, Tasha. Yeah, my

Tosha Schore 48:30
pleasure.

Casey O'Roarty 48:38
Man, I just so appreciate everything that Tasha brings to the conversation, and I I just always feel this sense of groundedness and and hope and possibility when I talk to her about parenting, and especially when we're talking about really uncomfortable topics like sexual harassment, like porn, you know, like the things that we never want our children to engage in or navigate. And yet, guess what? This is a part of the world that we live in So as much and as often lately as I've wanted to stick my head in the sand, it's not helpful, and it's not going to forward ourselves or our children in the direction that they need to go into so that they will end up, as you know, contributing members of society. So big. Thanks again to Tasha and speaking of being grounded, right? So you all have heard me talking about the daily intention card. So I am getting the greatest feedback from the listeners and community members who have placed their orders and gotten their cards in the mail. I've been getting pictures and. So much good feedback around how the cards are really such powerful tools for helping. And I'm going to tell you a little story. I actually shared this on Instagram. So the other morning, I had been out of town for the weekend, and it was a Monday morning, and I came downstairs and to do my, you know, have my personal space before the kids come down and the sink was full, the dish rack was totally full and the dishwasher was full, and I just felt myself totally drop into irritation, resentment, you know, all that yummy stuff that tightens my body, tightens my perspective, tightens my patience. And my beautiful 12 year old son came down, you know, ready for breakfast, and I was not very nice. The irritation came through. We'll say that in my tone, in my language. I mean, I wasn't super over the top, but I definitely was feeling it, feeling, I don't know, taken advantage of, feeling disrespected, you know, creating all that story that we can often create about nobody cares, and I have to do everything. And my son said, Mom, did you pick a card this morning? And that question was so simple and so powerful, and that question really softened my experience. It actually makes me feel a little emotional right now. And I said, I mean, my shoulders dropped, and everything inside of my energy just kind of settled down. And I looked at him, and I said, No, I didn't. And he said, Well, they're right here. And so I took the cards and I shuffled through them, and even just knowing that that's what I was doing. Like, I'm shuffling these cards. I'm looking for guidance. I'm opening myself up to wisdom that helped me also in my regulation. And then I picked a card, you guys guess what card I picked? Be tender. Whoa. I picked be tender. And oh my gosh. Like, ah, I was it was exactly what I needed in that moment. You know? It was exactly what I needed to soften into. Be tender. Be tender with my family. Be tender with myself. What does tenderness feel like in my body? All of that showed up as I looked at this card and marveled at the fact that this was the card that came up for me. So it's powerful stuff, and it's such a beautiful daily practice. And I really encourage you if, if you feel moved to join me in being an ever more intentional mama and parent, head on over to the website, joyful courage.com/intention, cards all one word and place your order. Place your order, you'll get a deck of 31 cards for 31 days, right? You get to use them however you wish. I have a little instruction, like, here's how you can use them, but ultimately, they're your cards, and for those of us that are really on the conscious parenting journey, we have to be intentional. We have to stretch into tenderness. We have to stretch into patience and peace, not because that doesn't exist in our lives, but because in the moments where we need it the most right, we want to become ever more familiar with it. We need that reminder our humanness can often get in our way, and so the cards are really designed to help us become ever more familiar in our body with some of these more intentional ways of being. So check it out, www, dot joyful courage.com/intention. Cards. Oh my gosh. And guess what else you could find on the website, speaking of intentions and reminders, and wearable reminders, and like, reminding the world. So I had the cutest shirts made. Oh my gosh, you guys are so cute. I have tank tops, and I have these really cute, flowy, could be off the shoulder T shirts that are not man T shirts. They are, for sure, for women, and they're adorbs, and they say, the tank tops say, be kind in really cute blue lettering on charcoal, kind of colored tanks. And then the T shirts are a lighter gray, and they say, Be Love. So guess what? Holidays are coming. Maybe you need to buy a present for. Yourself. Maybe you need maybe you'd like the intention cards and a T shirt. I don't know. It's all you, Mama, it's all you. I would love supporting you. I love offering you tools and gifts. I love giving you opportunities to invest in yourself energetically through listening to this podcast or, you know, and investing the money into things that are going to help and forward you and support me and the work that I do. So check out the shirts at joyful courage.com/jc shirts. Okay, it's again, joyful courage.com/jc. Shirts, all one word, and you can check them out and decide if that is something that you would like to have. Stay in touch. My loves. Stay in touch. You know that I have a newsletter list? Do you know that I have a newsletter list, and every week I send out a new newsletter with feedback from the week's previous week's show and a little bit of information about the current week's show, and then any offers that I have going on, you'll see links in the newsletter. It's not super long. It only comes once a week, if you'd like to stay in touch with me and the happenings around joyful courage. Head on over to joyful courage.com and at the very top of the website, you'll see click here to join the newsletter list. Do it? Do that? You can also follow along in the living, joyful No, I'm sorry. The live and love with joyful courage. Facebook group. It's a really safe, powerful community for celebrating, supporting and loving on each other as we all step into this parenting journey, you can always shoot me an email at Casey, at joyful courage to offer feedback, ask questions, love it, or feel free to head over to iTunes and leave me a review. If you love this podcast, let others know through your review on iTunes. And big thanks to my producer, Chris Mann, you're the man. Appreciate how you make this podcast sound so good in the ears of all of these parents, everyone else, listeners, I love you like really deeply. Love you. So appreciate the way that you show up for me, for each other, for this community. Thank you. Keep listening. Keep giving me feedback, keep offering suggestions and ideas. I love love love it. I'll be back in your ears next week with a solo show. Until then, have a beautiful day.

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