Ending Entitlement with Amy McCready

Transcription

Casey O'Roarty 0:17
Hello, listeners, welcome back to the joyful courage parenting Podcast. I'm so excited that you have made time to listen in on this particular episode. I am feeling extremely honored and excited to be interviewing Amy McCready from Amy mccready.com she is the power behind the positive parenting solutions. Facebook page, a parenting expert, author, media contributor and speaker. She is full of such great parenting wisdom, and is just getting ready to release a new book called The Me Me, Me epidemic, a step by step guide to raising capable, grateful kids in an over entitled world. Amy, I am so excited that you've agreed to be on this podcast.

Amy McCready 1:10
Oh, it is totally my privilege. I thank you for having me.

Casey O'Roarty 1:14
Well, tell my listeners about your journey into motherhood. We're going to go back in time a little bit, and how you have found yourself a leading parenting expert.

Amy McCready 1:26
Well, you know, it's so funny the way life takes you. You know, I had a corporate, very demanding job before I had kids, and I actually waited quite a while before I had kids. But what I what I found, is that parenting was so much more difficult than any job I ever had, and I was really struggling, and I thought I'm just not doing the best job that I can for these people that I love so much. So I started studying Adlerian child rearing principles. We had a very active Adlerian community. And for your listeners, they're probably familiar, but based on the work of Alfred Adler. And so I just immersed myself in all of those tools and strategies and started using them with my kids, and the results were just amazing. Of course, as you know, the biggest difference comes when we change ourselves. But in doing that, then, of course, I was able to direct my kids behavior in a more positive way. Well, fast forward, you know, several years, my love has always been training. So even in my corporate jobs, I always gravitated towards teaching others, teaching adults. And so I felt like, Wow, I feel like I could take this parenting information and deliver it in a way that you know what might be helpful to parents. And so that's what I started doing. I created a curriculum, and then a few years after that, I became certified in positive discipline under the leadership of your good friend Jane Nelson. Love her. Yes, we all love her. And have just been teaching this to parents ever since. And I think it was just that journey that I had of not feeling like I was being successful in the most important job I'll ever have. And when I work with parents, that's what I find. They just don't feel like they're being successful. They're frustrated with themselves. I refer to myself as a recovering yeller, because I kind of was a big yeller, and a lot of parents that I work with are kind of that same way. So just sort of one thing led to another, and I've been doing this ever since. I couldn't imagine doing anything else. Couldn't imagine going back to that old corporate job that I had, just because this is just so much more fun working with parents and helping them find ways to bring out the best in themselves and bring out the best in their kids.

Casey O'Roarty 3:49
So when you mention Adlerian child raising, which I know a lot about that, but I don't know that it's come up very much on the show, can you just give a short synopsis of what makes Adlerian theory different from your typical what you'd see out in the world as far as child racing goes. Because I think that, you know, there's those big practices that are kind of seen as mainstream, with timeouts or, you know, consequences, or punishment disguised as consequences, you know, nipping things in the bud. How would you describe Adlerian theory in contrast to that?

Amy McCready 4:33
Well, the principles within that are based on the work of Alfred Adler and and Rudolph dreikers And every all of the the strategies are based on respect, respect for the child, respect for the adult. Nothing is punitive or manipulative or coercive. You know, positive discipline, of course, is based on all of that, but sort of the primary, well, there's sort of a. Couple of foundation premises, first, that all human beings have a hardwired need for belonging and significance. So we need to belong. We need to feel connected with our parents. We need to feel connected with others, whether it's the classroom and with the teacher and with their peers. So we even as adults, we need to feel connected in the in the many communities in which we operate. So that sense of connectedness and emotional connection is so important belonging and significance. I need to make a difference. I want to contribute. I want to feel like I matter. We all have those basic needs for belonging and significance and taking that one step further, the beauty in the positive discipline and the Adlerian philosophy is that all behavior is goal directed. You know, behavior is happening for a reason to achieve a particular goal. And we can almost always take that back to the child's sense of belonging or significant and or significance. And if we can address those issues why the behavior is happening, instead of just putting band aids on symptoms, if we can get to the root of why that's happening, then we're going to be so much more successful in actually helping the child with solutions. Children don't want to misbehave. They're doing it because their needs are not being met. But very often, as adults, we can't figure that out. We can't get to sort of below the surface and figure out why that's happening, right?

Casey O'Roarty 6:29
I love, I love listening to other people talk about Adlerian theory, and just reflecting on what I know to be true when I first heard about it, it just made such perfect sense. And it's messy, right? I mean, we want our kids to have this healthy sense of belonging, and we want them to feel connected. And I'm guessing that the that parents have come from a really good place, and yet, here we have all of these entitled kids. And so I'm wondering about, I mean, my thoughts are just kind of spinning around as I listen to you around, yeah. How do we help them have this, you know, strong sense of self, strong sense of belonging, that they matter without. You know, raising a child who thinks they're the king of the world, right?

Amy McCready 7:26
Absolutely. And to your point, and before that whole entitlement discussion, I love what you said about how it's messy because it is, because we want kids to belong and feel significant, but then so many parents come from the paradigm of, I want you to just listen, just do it, because I said so, and because I'm the mom, I'm the dad. It's that very, you know, authoritarian sort of approach to it, yeah, and so sort of helping folks navigate that whole mess, I think, is our challenge, right? In parenting education, right?

Casey O'Roarty 8:01
And we are human, so the behavior that shows up, we're so quick to take personally rather than think, Hmm, what are the missing skills here? Or what is the goal here? You know, I myself included. It's, it's funny how quickly we fall into that pattern of making it about us, or comparing or, you know, fear showing up too, and being so worried that, well, if I don't, you know, change this behavior now, then they're going to be a bum on the street or in prison. Or, you know, it's always like the I always laugh in my parent classes, because I always take it there and I say it out loud and everybody laughs, because we all do that. We all worry about this future that is so extreme, if we don't, you know, nip

Amy McCready 8:49
it in the bud. That's right. Like, if a child tells a lie, like, oh God, automatically, you know, they're con

Casey O'Roarty 8:55
artist, yes.

Amy McCready 8:58
And we've all had those same experiences when it's your own child, that's the way you react. You think, Oh, my goodness, this is such a big deal. But again, the challenge is sort of taking a step back, deep breath, and trying to figure out, okay, why is that behavior? Why is that behavior happening? What is it trying to tell me, right? Right?

Casey O'Roarty 9:15
And your book so interesting. I love that your book starts by talking about what you call mind, body, soul, time, and in positive discipline, we call it special time. So you obviously think that this is key. You've started the book with it. It's about being in relationship with your kids. Tell me about it, because I could see reading a book about kids feeling entitled as a parent who maybe doesn't have a background in parent education and Adlerian and positive discipline and seeing like what I'm supposed to be giving them more of my time. Can you speak into that a little bit and tell us more about the purpose of mind, body, soul, time?

Amy McCready 10:06
Absolutely and I always start with this tool. I tell parents, if they don't learn anything else from me, let it be this one thing, mind, body and soul, time and like special time and positive discipline. It's essentially spending one on one time and attention with your kids, where you are fully present in mind, body and soul. There are no other children around. There's, you know, the spouse isn't around. You're not multitasking. You're not thinking about your to do list. You are fully present in mind, body and soul, for it can just be 10 or 15 minutes. It doesn't have to be a long time. But the reason that that's so important is, you know, we talked about our hardwired needs for belonging and significance and mind, body and soul, time contributes buckets to belonging and significance for our kids, because think about it, in that one on one time, it's just you and that child, what an opportunity for emotional connection and feeling like, wow, I belong, and I am significant for that 10 minutes. Nothing is more important to me than spending time with that child, and the reason that I began this book with that tool, is that it is the one thing that our children are absolutely entitled to. They don't need iPhones and all of the other nonsense. They are not entitled to those things, but they are entitled to our one on one time and attention. And very often, you know, parents will say just what you did while spending so much time anyway. We are spending time, but a lot of the time it's we're multitasking. We're not fully present, we're not completely engaged. And there's something about that, one on one that makes all the difference. It helps kids be more cooperative. You know, when we need them to actually do something like help out around the house or whatever it is, they're so much more cooperative, and family life just runs 1000 times more smoothly, in my opinion, when we're doing mind, body and soul time on a daily basis.

Casey O'Roarty 12:10
Yeah, I noticed that with my kids, my little people, who are not that little anymore. But I noticed that when I am in awareness and kind of stepping out of the situation and recognizing, wow, this week's been really hard with him or with her, and when I can step out of it and be really thoughtful and ask myself, Where have we been connecting? Nine times out of 10, we haven't been so, you know, I love that you started with this tool at the very beginning of the book. And it's interesting when we talk about it in the classes that I teach, because parents are a little bit like, Well, okay, I'll go along with this, but I don't see what's going to change. And then everything shifts, and they can't quite pinpoint why, because it's it's subtle, and it's powerful, and it's about being in relationships so Exactly.

Amy McCready 13:09
And I think I'm sure you find this that you know, when you start a class, parents are like, Okay, give me the consequences. They want to get right to all the corrective tools. I'm like, no, no, that stuff is not going to work unless we're doing that. You know, you have to do the relationship piece first. Yeah, you can, you can, you know, work in the other things down the road. But if we're not doing this piece, the foundational piece, the other stuff is not going to be effective.

Casey O'Roarty 13:35
Yeah? And then I love that word effective and helpful, because when parents, because I try to make sure to shift my own language too. It's not about what works, it's about what's going to be helpful, you know, and, and, and, you know, moving in that direction, I always try to think and to encourage parents to think about, okay, so this is the mistake that happened. What skills does my child need to navigate the same situation in a different way the next time it comes up, and grounding them for a week is not really giving them any skills, right? Or, you know so, and I know I'm jumping ahead in your book, because you have a whole chapter which great title, all the titles I love of your chapters creating a consequential environment, which I think speaks into that you talk about logical and natural consequences,

Amy McCready 14:35
yes, and that's not that doesn't mean create a punitive environment, of course, right? But it's just the creating the environment where kids learn that their their actions and their choices have outcomes, some positive and some negative, and very often, with entitled kids, they don't really have that sense of consequentiality. Mm. And and don't experience how their actions or lack thereof, you know, affect other people affect themselves. And so it's really important to create that. I had a mentor once who said that children will learn consequentiality, or people will learn consequentiality. We can either teach it to them in our own homes, where it's safe and we can use it as a training opportunity, or they're going to learn it in society at some point when they're adults. If they wait until that point, it's not going to go well for them. So it's our job to teach them create a consequential environment where it can be in the under the umbrella of training and teaching them the skills that they need, as you say, to navigate that same situation next time. I always tell parents, you know, when your kids mess up, say, great. This is awesome. This gives us an opportunity to figure out what went wrong and what we can do next time. No big deal, but very different than a punitive environment, as you know for

Casey O'Roarty 16:03
sure. And I think that you know, speaking of grown and out of the house and making mistakes, our system is set up to be very punitive and not so helpful. And I did have a I had a dad one time in one of my classes say, Well, you know, this is all fine and good, but when my child is standing in front of a judge, the judge isn't going to say, Okay, well, let's make an agreement for next time. And I looked at him and I said, Well, you know, there's no reason to set your home up as a mirror to what you see in society, and if you follow these principles and use these tools, chances are your child is not going to be standing in front of a judge. And if that is the case, you know it's the he's much more likely to handle it with grace and to really be able to shift behavior, rather than stand there in anger and blaming everybody else.

Amy McCready 16:59
Exactly the difference between taking responsibility and, as you say, blaming others, right?

Casey O'Roarty 17:03
So let me see. Where am I at? What else do I want to talk to you about? There's so much this book is so juicy, and it's not out yet, is it? When

Amy McCready 17:12
it is not it comes out on August 11. It is available now for for pre order, of course. Okay, so it'll be hitting bookshelves on August 11.

Casey O'Roarty 17:22
So can we talk more about consequences and the difference between natural and logical consequences, or actually, you know what? Well, yeah, that's what I want to talk about. Can we talk about

Amy McCready 17:33
that? Absolutely, I want to talk about whatever you want to talk about.

Casey O'Roarty 17:36
Well, tell me about So you brought into that entitlement piece and personal responsibility. So as a parent who's trying to who's recognizing that perhaps her children might have a little bit of this entitlement factor going on, what are some what's the lens that I need to be looking through as I think about natural versus logical consequences, because they're really two different things,

Amy McCready 18:07
yes, and you know, as we talk about in positive discipline, you know, and natural consequences, just when the the natural the natural consequence, plays out, the natural action plays out. So if I, if I go outside without a coat on in the wintertime, I'm going to be cold. That's just the natural thing that happens. If I don't turn in my my sports physical on time, you know, I I will get to try out for the team. It's just the It's just what's going to happen. It's not something that the parent has put in place. And so wherever possible, we want to allow natural consequences to take place. But I think whether we're talking logical or natural consequences, the important thing is setting our kids up for success ahead of time. So really taking time for training, making sure that they have the skills to be successful, that they're perfectly aware of what might happen with certain choices, and then when things maybe don't go as planned, use those as learning opportunities so that we can brainstorm solutions so that they can make better choices next time. So

Casey O'Roarty 19:24
I'm guessing you're not suggesting that when my child wants to go outside without a coat, which is such a typical complaint from parents, that letting them know ahead of time you're going to be cold, you're going to be uncomfortable, you're not going to like it, you better take it. It's not necessarily what you're talking,

Amy McCready 19:41
no, and that's sort of that whole over protecting thing that we parents and I put myself in that category, tend to do. But you know, how much more helpful would it be to say, well, you know what? Why don't you go outside and stand on the porch, feel the temperature, and then you can decide what you. To take to school today. Now, if they go and do that and decide, okay, sweatshirt is fine, and then it turns blustery on the way home from the bus stop, well then, you know, that's the natural consequence. That's what happened. They learn from their own choices, as opposed to somebody else. You know, engineering a consequence,

Casey O'Roarty 20:20
right? And I love that. That's exactly what I do with my son, because the older boys in the neighborhood want to wear shorts and a T shirt every day. And we were, I found myself in that battle, that exact battle with him, and I thought, I don't want to fight about this. This is No, I don't need to. And so that's exactly what I did. Is I said, You know what? Go stand outside, count to 20, see how you feel, and you decide.

Amy McCready 20:46
And it's great, yeah, and

Casey O'Roarty 20:48
it was beautiful. It was so great. And

Amy McCready 20:53
that's one of those examples of trying to control everything, you know. So those of us with controlling personalities, you know, we want to control everything, and some things just don't matter. I have told parents the story about when my kids were younger, in preschool, they were in a Montessori school, and so I don't know if you I'm sure you know how, in Montessori, they teach the kids to put their coats on, they lay it on the floor, and they put their arms in and flip it up over their heads. And so, yeah, my son knew how to do that, and it was just adorable. And so he was, like, three and a half, I think, and so he put it, he did that. He put his hands in, and he flipped it over, but it was upside down, so the coat was on, but it was upside down, so he had his arms in, but the hood was down by his bottom, and it was just totally a mess. And you know, of course, every part of me wanted to go and correct that, but I didn't. I let him walk in and he, you know, the teachers, of course, loved that, and he felt so significant. He did it himself. It just that kind of stuff. Just doesn't matter in the big scheme of things, right?

Casey O'Roarty 21:51
And I mean, I wonder how much pain and suffering we'd be avoiding if we just paused and let our kids self correct. Give them a chance to self correct before jumping in and saying, Oh, can I help you? Do you want me to help

Amy McCready 22:06
you? Absolutely. And I think for parents, one of the things that I encourage them to do is sit down and actually make a list of your typical power struggles during the week. So whether it's about remembering the lunch box or what they're going to wear, or cleaning up their room, or whatever it is, make a list of all of the typical power struggles, and then ask yourself, Okay, how many of these do I really need to care about in the big scheme of things, how many of these are all that important? And then maybe there's three things on the list that really are that important. And then, okay, what is the best way to get these things done. Nine and a half times out of 10, consequences are not going to be the best way. There's always going to be a better, more helpful solution for getting the things done that we tend to nag our kids about rather than jumping to consequences. I always include them in there because parents want to know about them. So Fine. Yes, we'll talk about consequences, but I always say it's the most overused tool in the toolbox. Yes, why?

Casey O'Roarty 23:04
Why do we always want to make a consequence for everything? I mean, ah, it makes me crazy, and I feel it inside my body too. You know I feel not only am I hearing it from the parents I work with, but I know in my own experience that I've had moments where it's like, I better do something to him

Amy McCready 23:25
well, and it's that whole paradigm of punishment that we're trying to we're trying to shift, and it's, it's a process. So I think that, you know, if I can and I forget who it is, maybe it's Jody McVitie who always says, How does she say, consequences, hardly. How does she How does she say?

Casey O'Roarty 23:45
She says, what

does she say? She says solutions are always consequences. Consequences are not always solutions. Ah,

Amy McCready 24:07
that's brilliant. Is

Casey O'Roarty 24:08
that the one you were thinking of that's

Amy McCready 24:09
not but I like that better. Oh, yeah, I

Casey O'Roarty 24:11
love that one too. I love that one too. It makes a lot of sense. And if we're looking for solutions, then, you know, there's loads of tools. Absolutely, you know, you also have a whole chapter in your book that's just titled, they're not helpless, yes.

Amy McCready 24:28
And this, I find, is one of the biggest culprits to the entitlement epidemic, and it comes totally from a place of love, because we love our little people and we want to help them and do things for them, but the more that we do for them, things that they're perfectly capable of doing for themselves, we rob them of the opportunity to develop skills and feel independent and capable and significant. And so, you know. Little by little, year by year. You know, eventually we have a child who expects to be taken care of, doesn't have the skill set to function successfully, and then the parent is totally frustrated because, you know, they're doing everything for this kid. So it really tends to snowball, whereas if we sort of take a step back and say, okay, you know, if, again, I always encourage parents, if we were doing, you know, if you were watching your your family, you know, on a movie, what would you see? What are the things that you're currently doing for your kids, with a little bit of training, they can do perfectly on their own. And if we could sort of start there, we can sort of unravel that whole, you know, I'm helpless, scenario that we tend to be in

Casey O'Roarty 25:46
and, you know, is there. So as I was reading your book, like I mentioned before, we were recording, I got a little hypersensitive about my parenting and my kids, and all of a sudden, I was looking through these new, broadened lenses. And I started to, I started to notice how often my kids ask me to do things for them that are really little, like even, you know, from sitting in the pool and them saying, Oh, will you bring me my towel or sitting down for dinner and, Oh, will you get me a glass of water and, and it kind of freaked me out. I mean, I was like, why they should be getting up and offering to get me a glass of water and, oh my gosh, they're so ungrateful. And I went a little off the deep end there. But, you know, and I'm guessing that there's a balance, right? There's a balance

Amy McCready 26:39
absolutely and so often that just sort of happens out of habit, doesn't it? Right? You get their water every night, and so you keep getting their water and keep getting there, and all of a sudden you think, why in the world am I getting their water? So yes, there is a balance. And I do not want to imply that we don't want to help each other out. We're a family. We work together, we have each other's back. There's nothing wrong with that. However, when you are consistently doing things for your kids that they could totally do for themselves, you are robbing them of the opportunity to be independent. And so that's where we have to step back. And so it's sort of little by little. Mom, will you get my water? You know what, sweetie? I'm gonna let you handle that tonight. Yeah, you know, just backing off little by little until they get to the point where they are functioning as they should be, in an age appropriate sense of independence. So

Casey O'Roarty 27:26
falling into a tirade that includes you are not a center of the universe. You could get your own towel. Maybe that wasn't so helpful.

Amy McCready 27:36
Oh, please. We've all done that. We have this joke at our house where my oldest son's name is Ryan and and they'll do this invitation when I'll say, I'll say something like, really rye, like really,

Speaker 1 27:50
you know, we all do that, yeah, at the end of the day, we are human, right? Absolutely.

Casey O'Roarty 27:54
So what would you say the biggest or what would be one of the biggest mistakes that parents are making today that is feeding into this entitlement piece.

Amy McCready 28:07
Well, I talk about the parenting overs, you know, the overindulging, over protecting, over praising, but if I had to take a step back, I would say probably the biggest mistake that we're making in terms of this whole Me, me, me epidemic, is smoothing their way, whether you call it helicoptering, well, no, it's not more, it's more lawn mowering, really, right, if we're gonna put a label on it, but just smoothing all of the their potential obstacles so that they don't really have to experience discomfort, or work really hard for something, because we go in and we make it better. We we talk to the teacher for them, we work things out with a coach. We just, you know, call the college professor, believe it or not thing. I mean that college professors will tell you that happens all the time. Oh my gosh, but really, just sort of removing all obstacles from their path, which doesn't give kids the opportunity to develop the resilience that they need to function successfully. And you know, we do that with the little things. You know, in the grocery store, we buy the treat so the kid won't be upset or feel discomfort and throw a tantrum, you know, all the way up to the big stuff, you know, paving the way for the, you know, college application, whatever that might be. So I see that as sort of the biggest opportunity for parents to take a step back and put responsibility where it belongs, age appropriately, on our kids shoulders, rather than us, you know, making everything all better for them. So

Casey O'Roarty 29:43
if somebody's listening right now, and they are hearing you talk about that smoothing the way, and they're recognizing that that is something that they have fallen into. What would you suggest as a small step, right? A baby step? Towards

Unknown Speaker 30:01
creating change

Casey O'Roarty 30:04
in in their parenting.

Amy McCready 30:06
So if we have been in the habit of, you know, over pampering, over protecting, doing those types of things, I would encourage parents, especially with the beginning of the school year, this was a great time to think about shifting responsibility for one or two things. So whatever that is, if you've been rescuing, if you've been driving the homework to school, driving the athletic gear to the field, perhaps implement a no rescue policy, which is one of the tools in the book, but it's essentially saying, You know what, you are really growing up in so many ways and becoming so much more independent, and this is an opportunity for you to take on this responsibility. So you do the training up front, you know, I'm not going to be rescuing you with homework and that sort of thing, and make sure that the child is set up for success. You have the checklist and everything to so he can be successful, and then you let the child be responsible for whatever that thing is, and hopefully it'll go just beautifully. And if it doesn't, you use that as an opportunity to do more training and figure out how he can be more successful in the future. So whether your child is, you know, going into kindergarten and she's going to now be responsible for packing up her own little, you know, school bag the night before, or you have a senior and you're no longer longer going to be reminding about due dates and commitments and so forth, pick one or two things where you can take the responsibility off of your shoulders and put it squarely where it belongs on your kids. What do you think? Does that make sense? Yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 31:47
I love that. I love that, and I love you know, and just because we've had that conversation with them doesn't mean that they say, Oh, thanks, great. I'm so excited that I get to practice responsibility and, you know? And the day will probably come when you get a call from school from your child saying, oh my gosh, I forgot that assignment. And that's, that's the moment of truth, right? That's right.

Amy McCready 32:13
Are you going to jump in the van and derive it over or say, you know, Wow, that must, you know? That must be difficult for you. What are you going to do? What do you How are you going to solve that problem? Yeah, and, and that is a really hard thing. And to your point, they're not, they're not going to be jumping up and down, yay. I have more responsibility. And you may get some eye rolling, and they may not be happy, and that's okay. Remember, you know, it's that short term versus long term parenting. Yeah, in the short term, we want them to be happy with every parenting decision we make, and we want them to love us and all of that good stuff. But in the long term, you know, it's our job to help them be independent, self sufficient, resilient, capable, young people that can move out of our house eventually.

Casey O'Roarty 32:58
Woohoo, yay. I'm excited to have adult relationships with my children,

Amy McCready 33:03
absolutely. And you know, they're never going to thank you now, but they will thank you down the road, your spouse will thank you for sure, because we do again. We don't want high maintenance spouses. We want these people to be independent and and functioning, functioning successfully on their own,

Casey O'Roarty 33:19
that is for sure. Well, Amy, thank you so much. This was so lovely and insightful, and I'm looking at your website right now. I just want to make sure that all the people that are listening go to Amy mccready.com I'll have the link in the show notes. You'll see links for her books on she has an online course. You have an online course. There's speaking engagements, a blog, free trainings. I'm guessing you have a newsletter. Do you have a newsletter on

Amy McCready 33:50
you? We do, in fact. And the other site that they can go to is positive parenting solutions.com and there's a lot of information there on our blog and so forth that parents can tap into if they're interested.

Casey O'Roarty 34:03
Okay, positive parenting solutions.com. Thank you for bringing that one up. I'm going there too. Oh yeah, there's loads of stuff here. So there's lots of ways to follow Amy and to keep being inspired by her work. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you again, so much. Oh my goodness. Thank

Amy McCready 34:20
you for the opportunity. This was such fun. I feel like we could talk for a couple more hours. I

Casey O'Roarty 34:24
know we could. Don't go anywhere after I hit record, okay,

Amy McCready 34:27
I'm not going anywhere.

Casey O'Roarty 34:29
All right. Thank you all out there listening. I appreciate it. Please, after you've listened to the podcast, feel free to give a comment or give a review on iTunes. That is so helpful in getting the word out about the podcast. All right, enjoy your children. Enjoy your parenting, enjoy your day.