Eps 433: Being what our 18 year olds need with Ian O’Roarty

What does joyful courage mean to you

Joyful courage means you’re happy and outgoing. 

 

Resources

Joyful Courage Episode 175: A candid conversation with my kids about screen time 

Joyful Courage Episode 315: Ian’s back sharing truths about his screen time 

Joyful Courage Episode 421: Best practices in the college application process with Janae Young 

Janae Young’s Website (Ian’s College Admission Coach)

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Transcription

SUMMARY KEYWORDS
feel, kids, parents, year, college, mistakes, talk, listeners, teens, class, ian, late, podcast, making, janae, conversation, day, senior year, experience, love
SPEAKERS
Ian O'Roarty, Casey O'Roarty

Casey O'Roarty 00:03
Hey, welcome to the joyful courage podcast a place for inspiration and transformation as we try and keep it together, while parenting our tweens and teens. This is real work people. And when we can focus on our own growth, and nurturing the connection with our kids, we can move through the turbulence in a way that allows for relationships to remain intact. My name is Casey already, I am your fearless host.

Casey O'Roarty 00:30
I'm a positive discipline trainer, space holder coach and the adolescent lead at Sprout double. I am also the mama to a 20 year old daughter and 17 year old son walking right beside you on this path of raising our kids with positive discipline and conscious parenting. This show is meant to be a resource to you and I work really hard to keep it real, transparent and authentic so that you feel seen and supported today as an interviewer and I have no doubt that what you hear will be useful to you. Please don't forget sharing truly is caring. If you love today's show, please pass the link around snap a screenshot posted on your socials or texted to your friends. Together we can make an even bigger impact on families all around the globe. I'm so glad that you're here. Enjoy the show.

Casey O'Roarty 01:27
All right. Yes. Hello. Welcome back to the podcast. I'm so excited for today's show. My guest is my son, the legendary in already. Ian's my youngest, he just literally yesterday turned 18. He's a senior in high school. Like I said, he's my youngest of two. He's been on the podcast a couple of times. The first time you were on Ian was episode 175, where you and Rohan and I actually sat in the closet and talked about screentime I love that conversation. And then you are back again in the spring of 2022. Talking about screen time again, actually came clean on a secret phone on air that I didn't know about that was entertaining for all in is always real and candid in conversation with me on and off air. Today we're gonna dig into all the things happening as he moves through the fall of his senior year and looks ahead at the future. Hi, Ian, welcome to the podcast. Well,

Ian O'Roarty 02:34
Casey, thank you for having me.

Casey O'Roarty 02:37
How does it feel to be back on?

Ian O'Roarty 02:39
Like I never left to be honest.

Casey O'Roarty 02:41
Oh, feels like you never left? Well, I want to publicly thank you for spending time with me on the podcast. I had to kind of beg for you to do this with me again. So I just want you to know that I appreciate your time and your willingness to be a part of this platform. Thank you. Course. Yeah. Your birthday was yesterday. How does it feel to be 18?

Ian O'Roarty 03:05
It feels like this is the only birthday besides my 16. But actually like the change of age actually matters. I feel like more responsibility. There's consequences for my actions. You know, I could get tried as an adult. It's scary. But it's like, it's cool.

Casey O'Roarty 03:21
Yeah, you're thinking about that, huh?

Ian O'Roarty 03:23
Yeah.

Casey O'Roarty 03:24
Yeah. What kind of responsibility? Are you feeling?

Ian O'Roarty 03:27
Just the responsibility of like, what, like my actions like actually matter. Now. I feel like before everything could just be wiped off. And I'm 18. But I'm 18.

Casey O'Roarty 03:37
Now you're 18. So keep it together, dude. Yeah, right. Speed limit. I'm gonna love you, no matter how much time you have to spend in prison. Don't worry, oh, if that happens, I will show up to your trial. I will love you through it all. But I have a feeling that that's not really what you want. So you're gonna make better choices to avoid that. Yay. You are a couple months into your senior year. What do you notice at school? What's it like to be at the top? As a senior, one of the older kids?

Ian O'Roarty 04:11
Well, it feels like kind of just wasting my time there. To be honest, really tell me more? Well, I just feel like you know, I'm already so close to going to college. It's just like I'm applying to colleges. I'm saying my grades. And so like, what am I getting these grades for? You know? Yeah, matter as much as it maybe has in the past. But you know, fiddling around the school a little bit.

Casey O'Roarty 04:33
Oh, yeah. I feel that sense of seniority and superiority. Definitely. Well, so how do you stay engaged? You know, as you said, you feel like it doesn't really matter. Like you're already on your way to what's next. So how are you keeping yourself engaged? Just by

Ian O'Roarty 04:51
thinking about how it's practice for next year when it gets harder. Just like if I take a year off? It's gonna be hard to go back, especially with like the hardest school ever had in college?

Casey O'Roarty 05:01
Yeah. Yeah, school has been pretty easy for you. Yeah.

Ian O'Roarty 05:04
Well, was my guy. So?

Casey O'Roarty 05:09
How was it last year? So listeners last year in did a program that we have up here called Running Start. So each quarter order system, he took a class at the community college. So what did you take? You took English 101 freakout

Ian O'Roarty 05:25
precalc to add to cultural anthropology.

Casey O'Roarty 05:29
Yeah. So did you really feel that difference between your experience that you've had thus far in public school? And

Ian O'Roarty 05:38
for sure, it was like, I mean, it's an entire year's worth of public school and pushed into like three months. So it's way faster paced, like homework every night. And I'd never have homework because they give us so much time to do it during the class at the high school. So it's just a tough switch. But I mean, have the practice now. I can tap back into that when I need to. I feel like you do. Yeah.

Casey O'Roarty 06:00
Do you feel worried at all, like, when you start college next year, you're gonna have three of those classes, not just one a quarter?

Ian O'Roarty 06:06
No, I mean, one a quarter is not really hard at all. And I mean, it was hard at times. But I mean, in college,

Casey O'Roarty 06:15
right. I just gave him aside, I listener seem to see.

Ian O'Roarty 06:21
Well, sorry, I'll be living at the school. So you know, it's a lot easier to, I feel like I mean, of course, there'll be distractions, but that's my main priority around there is to get an education, and I'm paying for it. So it's, you know.

Casey O'Roarty 06:35
So you're not there yet, though. You're still in high school, you still have the rest of the senior year, you've already gone to homecoming. You're getting ready for basketball season to start. What's exciting, what are you looking forward to as you move through kind of those, you know, those milestones of wrapping up high school?

Ian O'Roarty 06:54
Well, I'm really excited to get my banner, once I'm in basketball at the varsity players get banners of like, huge banners put up of us in the gyms right next to the court, and we get to take them home at the end of the year. So looking forward to that. Yeah. Looking forward to just being done. Being graduated. Working during the summer. Yeah, looking forward to being a being hot again in Washington.

Casey O'Roarty 07:20
Yeah, we're only at the beginning of the cold season, too. Yeah. And you are college bound, you're a kid, you know, that that is the direction that you want to go in, right? So and you've started the application process, you're working with Janae, which listeners know Janae, from Episode 421, she came on blew my mind in conversation, and I was like, Oh, my gosh, I gotta get into work with you. And when I first came to you, it was like, Oh, my gosh, I interviewed this lady. She's awesome. She helps with college application process. You were like, thanks. But no things. I convinced you to sit in on just one console call with her just to meet her. And by the end, you were open to it? What was it like? First one, I encouraged you. And you gave me the thanks. But no, thanks. When I first started talking about a college counselor, what did you

Ian O'Roarty 08:17
thoughts, I didn't really understand the application process as well, as I do. Now. My understanding before the Common App, which I was applying to many schools at once, I thought only had one essay, but each school also has about like two essays, and opportunities that Janae presented like touching up your activities list and just like editing all your stuff, or like helping you edit it and making it so even, you're not just trying to apply you're trying to apply for like merit scholarships, and it's like, really leveling up your application. And I didn't realize there was so much work.

Casey O'Roarty 08:50
Yeah, yeah, she did a really good job on that console, cause she really laid it out. So how has it been? You've had a couple of calls with her. You've been working through the process, what do you like about it,

Ian O'Roarty 09:00
it gives me a good structure for what I need to get done. And it's really helpful having someone to just bounce my work off of whatever I do, she can like, go over it and critique it, and give me feedback. It's really helpful.

Casey O'Roarty 09:13
Yeah. And she's given you some really good, you know, she's shared with me feedback about you and how you're, you know, taking this experience seriously and following through, and she's really enjoying working with you too. So I'm glad and how is it for you to have it not be because I love what you said, you know, going into that initial call with her. You thought you knew what the process was going into that initial call with her. I knew I didn't know what the process was. And so the two of us together could already feel my own stress level. How does it feel to not have me be the one that's encouraging you and moving you along through the process?

Ian O'Roarty 09:58
100,000 times better, because I hate we're constantly reminding me of stuff. So it was, like you said you didn't really know. So it didn't feel good having someone who also didn't know trying to get on my back about it. Because I felt like it was just frustrating. Both Janae I feel like Yeah, she definitely knows what she's doing. I'm just gonna sit back and listen. Yeah.

Casey O'Roarty 10:24
Well, and it's interesting, I have a lot of clients in whose kids are really resistant to extra help, or tutoring or, you know, any kind of coaching from other people, even as things feel so hard. So if you were going to talk to a group of kids who are college bound, who are interested in applying for colleges, what would you tell them about just the experience of working with someone who's not your parent?

Ian O'Roarty 10:55
Well, I would just be like, why wouldn't you want to do that? Yeah, you know, there's just so many reasons to do it, especially if it's not your parent, because I mean, I can't imagine a single kid out there that wants their parent to be their like, teacher, or their tutor. It's just not a good combination.

Casey O'Roarty 11:11
Yeah, it's tricky. There's a lot of dynamic there. Alright, thanks for that. So, at the start of, well, I guess this summer, I was talking to you about wanting to really give you space, you know, I'm very aware that a year from now, you are on your own out there in the world untethered to me, I won't know what you're doing. And that's a little nerve wracking. And also, I heard somebody say somewhere like I'm parenting a year ahead. So thinking about who you're going to be and what life is going to be like from you a year from now, I really want to make sure that you have some high reps, right, some opportunity, this last year that you're full time at home, to experience that sense of freedom, so that you can be in the practice of decision making and considering what you need and what's going on, and, you know, best practices, so that a year from now, when you are on your own, it's not like this wild, free for all, and you don't have the skills to navigate. You know, like you mentioned distraction and, and other things that come along with being on your own in college. How do you feel like that's going

Ian O'Roarty 12:36
on? I feel like it's going good. You know, you'd much rather make a mistake, and learn from it when you're at home and have that cushion, rather than being all alone at college. Not saying that I've been making a bunch of mistakes. But you know, just goes for everybody. And I think yeah, I mean, I understand you say a lot that you want to spend as much time with me as you can, before I leave for college, and I understand that. But it's also I think you've given me a good mix of wanting me to stay home, but letting me go out because you know, it's like, my last time seeing these friends. And you respect that. And I think that's a good mix to have those two.

Casey O'Roarty 13:09
Yeah, I mean, there's definitely been times where I'm like, I mean, I'm still your mom, right? And I feel like my goal, my hope is that, you know, you have an opportunity to maybe go to a volleyball game or go do something and you think to yourself, like, Okay, what do I got going on tomorrow? Because you guys, Ian has early days, where he asked to show up to school by 830 later days where he shows up to school, what 1005 or something? And 1030? Yeah, well, we'll get to that conversation momentarily. But I want you to, you know, just like when you're in college, and it's like, well, I've got a test tomorrow, but there's this party going on, how can I, you know, stay responsible? Be in the poll of wanting to do the social thing, but also making choices that are going to further you along in your goals? Do you think that I've done a pretty okay job of letting go? I do.

Ian O'Roarty 14:08
Sometimes I guess I'll just probably depending on the day asked me, because I think I definitely at the beginning of the year, you were a lot more strict than you are now. Just a couple of months ago. But yeah, we had some tough conversations about that whole letting go part. And also about me spending time at home. Yeah, I think we both

Casey O'Roarty 14:28
did we I don't know what you're talking about. What were those conversations? I can't remember

Ian O'Roarty 14:33
what I mean. He just said to me all the time, like, Oh, you're leaving next year. I want to spend as much time with you as I can. And I'm like, Oh, but I want to do this. I'm like, well, you're like we figure it out. But it just takes time to talk about it. So I wanted to be honest. Yeah.

Casey O'Roarty 14:51
Yeah. That's why I love family meetings because I feel like we can really get things on the schedule, when we are actively using family meetings and then I don't have to be On your case about what's going on what's happening and listeners, what you don't see is Ian is shaking his head. Now, let's talk about family meetings. Why are you shaking your head? No like that.

Ian O'Roarty 15:09
So like, why? Because, I mean, I like this, like the scheduling part. It's just like, I don't know, I guess it's just over the years since we've been doing family meetings since I was like, four years old. I just, it's PTSD at this point.

Casey O'Roarty 15:26
Listen, people have real PTSD, I feel like you are appropriating that phrase. Well, all right, I'm okay with that. I'm okay with you not being super thrilled by family meetings. And we still get to do them. Because it's really nice to be at the table and do some problem solving and the planning. And also, my favorite thing is making sure that we put something on the calendar where we know, we're going to spend time together. But yeah, okay. Well, that being said, and talking about letting go and all of those things. So there's one particular challenge. And I love this challenge, because it's something that comes up with a lot of parents that I work with. And that well, there's a couple challenges, not all of them are we going to talk about here on the podcast, because you get to have your own privacy. But I feel like and what I talk about with parents is there's the mistakes that our kids make. And then there's our response to the mistakes. Right. And so one of the things that has come up on the regular this year, that hasn't been such a big deal beforehand, that I've noticed, but it's definitely a new regular challenge, which is I get a text at the end of the day that says you've missed a class.

Ian O'Roarty 16:43
Yeah, like once a week. Yep. Talk about that. Well, what if I'm not actually missing an entire class, I show up about, like, two to 10 minutes late. And I don't grab a tardy slip, because there's a line for the tardy slip to make me five minutes later than I actually wouldn't be. So I just walked past. And I probably usually get to class before the teacher even starts teaching, and they don't care at all. And then I get an angry text later. That makes me feel that's

Casey O'Roarty 17:16
not true. I don't send you angry texts. Usually, I just screenshot it and pass it on.

Ian O'Roarty 17:23
Yeah, well, there's nothing I can do about it until now that I'm 18. And I can just excuse them myself.

Casey O'Roarty 17:30
So you want to just get to class. You don't want to deal with standing in line for the tardy flip. Yeah. And you're saying your teachers haven't started teaching. But they have taken attendance? Yeah. Okay. So have you had any conversations with your teachers just about like, what it's like for them for when kids walk in late? Yeah. You know, if it's annoying,

Ian O'Roarty 17:50
well, no, I mean, Mark, the Japanese teacher, I'm the TA for his class, he actually doesn't really care. I mean, since I'm count, since I'm a TA, I don't necessarily have to be there every day. Yes, you

Casey O'Roarty 18:04
do. But he says, You don't have to be there. That's not real. She told me that. Great dashboards with Mark, go on?

Ian O'Roarty 18:13
Well, actually, no, he never told me that. But some days I can leave and go shoe bed, play basketball in the gym or something. But you know, there's not much to do.

Casey O'Roarty 18:22
But what about you know that your first period of the day is on one day? It's calculus? And the other day, it's college writing? And those are typically I mean, is it from my understanding your late days? It's that first thing in the morning, right? Yes, yeah. And listeners, my approach this year has been, I'm not gonna call the school and say, I'm aware that in was late, I've really left it up to n to navigate it. And my approach has also been like, you get to decide. And, you know, my biggest thing in is always like, okay, you know, what, if it's not a big deal, then it's not a big deal. But make sure you know whether or not it's a big deal, make sure you know, that there isn't some kind of what you've done the work on this, but I'm just speaking it out loud. You know, make sure that there isn't a consequence that's going to show up later on, like, oh, well, you missed, you know, because you're marked down absent, not late. So there's all these unexcused absences. And so what does that mean? You know, is it going to get in the way of graduating which we have found out from a reputable source? No. Is it going to be on your college transcripts? Is that going to be something that's going to show up? I don't know, is it that might be something to find out because that could just be information that will motivate you if it matters to you to get out the door a little sooner. Right? Because I'm not motivating you to do that clearly. Right. So you know, my approach would be supporting you and just getting more information so that you are making an informed choice. How does that feel that approach?

Ian O'Roarty 19:59
Well, fields before it felt kinda like annoying, because a lot of the times, if I'm more than 10 minutes late to a class, I am considered absent, which I told you a lot of times and you'd be like poor terms or just mark you tardy? Why you can't do that it's absent from the class. So when you wouldn't Excuse me? No, it's not. It's just a bad system. It's a bad system. So the if kids go to the bathroom, and they're gone for, I used to be 20 minutes. So if they're gone for 20 minutes, then they're considered abstinent, but now it's 10 minutes. So people take less than the bathroom.

Casey O'Roarty 20:34
And this isn't on you. This is a system problem, right? It's false information. You didn't miss the whole class, you were late. Anyway, I've sent an email to the counselor, we're going to talk about it. How do you feel about me just kind of handing over the responsibility to you?

Ian O'Roarty 20:51
I mean, I feel like that's better than just getting like super mad every time I do it. I said, definitely threatening you to take your phone like the laid back approach is cool. Because I mean, at the end of the day, it doesn't really

Casey O'Roarty 21:04
matter. Right? What I do, or in general?

Ian O'Roarty 21:07
Well, I mean, if I really wanted to be late, like, yeah, there's probably nothing like, you're not going to stop yelling the hard way. I feel like

Casey O'Roarty 21:17
yeah, sometimes, right, sometimes.

Casey O'Roarty 21:25
And this leads me to my next question, which is, you know, oftentimes the people that I work with, especially parents of older teens, they there's this when they get to be in high school and later, like junior senior in high school, there's this kind of this urgency around wanting to know that we've done enough that we've done enough that we've prepared you enough, right, and I try to encourage parents to really, again, let go and let their kids feel the tension. Right, feel the tension of life. While obviously, you know, while watching for the big train wrecks, you know, and intervening when there are big red flags. Of course, listeners, of course, pay attention. This isn't permissive, just like good luck with that BS out. But there is something to be said for giving your kids space to make mistakes to make bad decisions to learn from them. What do you think seniors and juniors in high school older teens that are still at home? What do you think they need most from their parents?

Ian O'Roarty 22:32
Well, I think they need space to practice what they're, how they're gonna act when they're out of the house. I think that senior and junior year is a great time, because you're pretty much of Age of being in college, you know, on your own, do whatever you want. And like I said earlier, it's better to make mistakes when you're at home, and you have like that cushion of being like random parents, in your own house, in high school. classes aren't like that hard. And it's just like, I mean, it's just such a good practice when you're at home. Because if you get to stop your kids as much as you want from doing bad things, or you consider bad, but if they want to, they're just gonna do it even more when they get older, because you didn't let them do it at home at the end of the day. Yeah. Well, and I talked about, like, some crazy stuff.

Casey O'Roarty 23:17
Yeah,

Ian O'Roarty 23:17
I'll let them do whatever.

Casey O'Roarty 23:18
Yeah, yeah, watch out for the train wrecks. Well, in something that I talk about with parents, too, is when mistakes happen. And you've made plenty, right? Kids make mistakes? A couple. Plenty. Yeah. Well, and when they make mistakes, not to make, like, I really try to work with parents, and you listeners, you've heard me talk about this, and I want to speak it to n and see what he has to say. And I really, I'm an imperfect parent, I make mistakes. I don't always do what I say to parents to do, because I'm human too, but I do my best. But one of the things is when things come up, I really try to make sure that the focus is on how the mistake might affect you. Right and what you want, and what's important to you, instead of making it about you and me, right? And what I mean there is sometimes when kids get in trouble, whatever that looks like, parents get so pissed, right? And then it's like these really punitive consequences. Like I'm gonna get you to never do this again, I'm gonna punish you, so that you will never do this again. And in that process, what can happen is this dynamic where the kid isn't thinking like, what's that the best thing for me to do? Could that have gone bad? Might it go bad next time? Instead? They're like, Oh, really, you think you can control me? Watch this eff off. I'm going to do what I want. Right. And so with you, I've tried really hard to resist that temptation. And there's definitely been times where I've leaned in and been like, What the fuck are you thinking? I know that owning that, but also really trying to ask questions around. Well, how do you feel about this now. And my goal would be to guide you through the process up until that point of making a choice that maybe you are regretting the next day, and finding like seeing those places of where you could have pivoted or done something different? Is that how you've experienced me? Am I being accurate?

Ian O'Roarty 25:37
I think so. Yeah, definitely. You've been great at allowing me to, like, practice and make mistakes, and learn from them very open about that. Which is, I think it's very good.

Casey O'Roarty 25:48
Yeah. I remember there was one time when you it was a few years ago, may have been after COVID. And you and a bunch of kids went to walk and falls and the kids were jumping off the waterfall. And I picked you up or we met for something we met up and you were like, Mom, you were in my head. Because there were like different layers of height that the kids could jump from. And what you told me was, I remember you saying that the more teenagers there are, the dumber we get. And I decided not to jump off the highest spot at the waterfall to remember that.

Ian O'Roarty 26:26
I do I remember going to walk and falls. I don't know if I've ever been to the waterfalls without jumping off the base one. Oh, well, then it must have been different waterfall because I do remember a bunch of my friends jumping off one of the smaller ones. But the water looked like it had like deep enough. not deep enough. So I didn't do it. So it might have been that time you might be. I feel like

Casey O'Roarty 26:50
okay, okay, you didn't get swept up in the collective teen brain? Yeah, I did. Because it's a real thing. Yeah, it is a real thing. Have you experienced that and other places that collective teen brain where you've been in that kind of wobble of like, Oh, that looks like fun. But you have another voice in your head being like, ah, probably not the best time for that right now. Have you had that experience?

Ian O'Roarty 27:15
I can't recall a time recently that I have actually, my friends usually make pretty good choices. We're not too crazy. Maybe observing other kids like at school and stuff, just like, you know, the bigger the group gets like, the more they're gonna like, do the bigger they confidences individual.

Casey O'Roarty 27:34
Yeah, yeah, that collective experience is real. Yeah. Oh, man. Well, we parents, we love our big kids so much. I love you, and Rowan so much. And I've really loved parenting you through your teen years, even as we've moved through some really hard things with our, in our family. And it's, you know, I'm really working. And I encourage parents to really work to take the teen and the teen experience into consideration. I also want and parents that I work with are like, Yeah, but when are our teenagers going to take our experience into consideration because it is so hard to be a teenager, even, you know, I had the experience of your sister parenting your sister as an 18 year old, which was very different. This is the first time I've had a son who's 18. Right? It's a new experience for parents. What do you see, that might be hard for parents, as they live with their teens that are moving through their senior year and getting ready to leave.

Ian O'Roarty 28:48
I mean, I can see like, you know, your kids have been with the rest of your whole life you like your child, and they leave in the next summer. So you want to get in as much time as you can with them before they leave. But they like, you know, they want to do like, all my friends are going to college. So they're trying to hang out with them. And maybe it feels like they don't have like enough time for you or they're not spending as much time with you as you want. But I mean, you got to remind them of your perspective, that you want to see them before they leave. But you also got to respect like, they got to do what they got to do. Like, the more you try and pull them in when they don't want to the less they're gonna want to be there.

Casey O'Roarty 29:27
So again, thank you for that. Thank you for that.

Ian O'Roarty 29:30
You can put that on a t shirt.

Casey O'Roarty 29:32
I know right? I'll make that into a post for Instagram

Ian O'Roarty 29:35
has trademarked it every time he's

Casey O'Roarty 29:41
my baby Bye. It's so weird that you I mean it listeners if you could see him maybe I'll let me take a little screenshot. He has like serious facial hair. It's insane. You're so it's so wild. I mean, I know it wasn't Just yesterday, but it feels like yesterday that you were a little boy. And now you're this huge baby man. And it's pretty wild. Thank

Casey O'Roarty 30:07
you so much for being in conversation with me. And you're welcome. I appreciate you. Are there any final words that you'd like to leave listeners with?

Casey O'Roarty 30:15
Considering that they're working on parenting their teenagers? Anything you want to say, representing all teens across the land,

Ian O'Roarty 30:25
learn to let go and forgive and you'll pass that trade on to your children.

Casey O'Roarty 30:31
Oh, I love that. Learn to let go and forgive. What is joyful courage mean to you?

Ian O'Roarty 30:38
Means you're happy and outgoing. Oh, really? Yeah.

Casey O'Roarty 30:43
All right. I love you. Love you too. Thank you. Bye

Casey O'Roarty 30:55
Thank you so much for listening in today. Thank you to my spreadable partners as well as Chris Mann and the team at pod shaper for all the support with getting the show out there and making it sound good. Check out our offers for parents with kids of all ages and sign up for our newsletter to stay connected at bees profitable.com. Tune back in later this week for our Thursday show and I'll be back with another interview next Monday. Peace

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