Eps 517: When our teens are vaping nicotine

Today joyful courage is all about recognizing and being with how our journey continues to unfold FOR us. Perceived mistakes or missteps can be reframed as bringing us exactly to where we’re meant to be. There is joy in that for me, and possibility.

Things to consider

Vaping often stems from developmental desires for novelty, belonging, and curiosity, combined with marketing tactics targeting teens. It’s not a moral failing but a challenge many kids and families face.

Engage your teen in conversation about their vaping experience and addiction. Ask open-ended questions about their knowledge of the health impacts and encourage reflection rather than offering warnings.

Quitting nicotine requires addressing both physical withdrawal and the mental “brainwashing” of addiction. Help your child find healthier coping strategies for their stress or emotional needs.

Approach conversations with curiosity, not criticism. This helps teens stay open to reflecting on their choices rather than becoming defensive.

Establish personal boundaries regarding nicotine use, but also offer unconditional support. Let your teen know you are there for them when they are ready to quit.

Remind your child that their relationship with nicotine is theirs to navigate. Encourage problem-solving together rather than relying on punishments, which may push them to hide their behavior.

Resources

thetruth.com

teen.smokefree.gov

Alan Carr’s Easy Way to Quit Vaping

Transcription

Casey O'Roarty 00:05
Hey everybody, welcome to the pod. I just wanted to jump in at the top here and let you know that this week's show is a repeat of episode 452 and I am so excited to re share it. I think now is the perfect time to drop back into the conversation around flexibility as we move into a new school year and a new developmental stage for all of our kids, I think we get to really examine how we dance with them, right, how we find our flexibility and our pragmatism, and how we lean into curiosity and deep listening and letting go of that need for control, for being the authority, letting go of that desire to be liked or not, rocking the boat, finding flexibility, finding our sea legs in this journey of parenting teenagers. So I really hope that you enjoy this show, and even if you're listening to it for a second time, know that you will hear it differently, and you will take away new and deeper nuggets. And I am so excited to hear all about it. So have a beautiful week and enjoy the show.

Casey O'Roarty 01:28
Hi listeners. I am so excited to be back with you. Thanks so much for hanging in there. I know I sent you a replay to listen to last week, but I did pick one that I thought you would love, so hopefully you did. I, on the other hand, went to Las Vegas and had a huge birthday celebration at an amazing music festival with so many friends my family. And then I drove to Colorado. I drove to my sisters in Carbondale, Colorado, and I for the last week, have been hanging out with my sister and her husband and my super special niece, Ayla, who's seven, and my little nephew Charlie, who's three. And I'm so excited. Big treat for you all today I have my sweet niece standing here next to me, and she wanted to say hi. She wanted to say hi to my listeners. So you want to say hi, Ayla, hi. So Ayla, you live in Colorado,

02:26
uh huh,

Casey O'Roarty 02:27
and you have a podcast, don't you? Can you tell me a little bit about what you love about podcasting? Um,

02:34
well, I think it's kind of just knowing there's a lot of people listening to you so you can kind of talk about, like, what might help them? Yeah, that's

Casey O'Roarty 02:47
definitely how I like to podcast, for sure. What do you like to talk about on your podcast?

02:52
Well, I like to talk about, it's a podcast for kids. So I like to talk about, like, how much like imagination, like we can have, yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 03:02
and you're a really good example of that, because you tell a lot of stories on your podcast, don't you? What is your favorite thing to tell stories about um animals? Yeah, what's your favorite animal,

03:15
either um, a bird, any kind of bird, or a cat?

Casey O'Roarty 03:19
Yeah, you do really love cats, don't you? Yeah, it's really too bad that your mom is so allergic to cats, isn't it? It's a drag. Well, Ayla, thanks for showing up and talking to my people. Super special, and I love you so much, and I'm so glad we're getting to spend so much time together. Thank you. So that was really fun. It is wild to drop back into little kid parenting land. I mean, I can't even tell you how much food I'm eating, because just by walking by plates that have leftovers on them, it's so fun to be here with my sister and her family. And, yeah, it's super special. It's super special. And but I'm here to talk about today's episode, which I'm really excited about. And you know, before we get into it, I want to offer up and ask, how did you enjoy Melanie McNally's interview on Monday? I loved being in conversation with her. I think it was such an important conversation to be discerning when we feel like our kids are being lazy versus discouraged, right or unmotivated? I think a lot of what we're seeing with some of our kids who kind of are seemingly sitting around, don't have any interest, don't want to do anything, there's a really deep level of discouragement going on there. And my conversation with Melanie really highlighted that and offered some great thoughts and ideas from her new book to consider. And I want you to know I highly recommend her new book. It's so practical and it's short, it's easy to read. Super useful. She's doing a giveaway till september 30. Parents have a chance to win one of three copies of her book, and the link for the giveaway will be in the show notes for this episode. So check that out. Okay, check that out. So where are we going today? Where are we going today? Well, I've been spending some time in the joyful courage for parents of teens Facebook group, which I love. I love that place. Are you in there? If you aren't search for it on Facebook, searching groups joyful courage for parents of teens, because it's a really sweet space for support and camaraderie and community. When you request to join, make sure you answer all three questions that I ask, because if you don't, I don't let you join. It's just kind of the only filtering system I'm able to use is those three questions. So answer the three questions and I'll pop you in. I love this group again, because it is such a lovely safe space, and we get all sorts of questions there. I love that Facebook has made it possible to post anonymously, because the anonymous option makes it even more safe for parents to talk about what they're currently struggling with their kiddos. And I'm going to focus on one of the posts that has recently come through and I think deserves some attention, because I know many, many, many, I have many clients, and I myself have struggled with this challenge. So the post sent in by an anonymous parent said, I am looking for resources and advice on quitting vaping. Nicotine for my kiddo, she wants to quit and has been vaping for over two years. She just told me today, and I am shocked, but so glad that it's out in the open now. She's tried to quit, but not with any alternative nicotine products. I just listened to Casey's two podcasts about addiction with Brenda Zane. Can we all get together and destroy these tobacco companies? I'm not mad at my kid, she made a mistake, but I'm so mad at those gosh darn companies. So here are my thoughts. First of all, I love reading that the poster said, I'm not mad at my kid, she made a mistake. I also really appreciated when the poster wrote, she just told me today, and I'm shocked, but so glad that it's out in the open what a gift this post was for the parents in the community, because many of us, like I said, many of us, have kids who've tried vaping or are currently vaping, and if this is you, you are not alone, right? This isn't about being a good or bad parent or having the right rules or the wrong rules, or doing the right thing or the wrong thing as the mom or the dad. It's not a character flaw for your child. It's the developmentally appropriate desire for novelty combined with a desire to belong, individuation, slick marketing of big tobacco, and this combination makes every kid at risk of sliding into nicotine use and addiction. Okay?

Casey O'Roarty 07:55
Addiction happens quick with nicotine, as the body wants more of what it's getting, and our teens, in a lot of ways, are totally unaware of what they're signing up for. They might know, hey, I probably shouldn't do this. This is kind of exciting. It's a no no. I see it. The adults doing it. It looks cool. I might get in trouble if I get caught. But I'm going to check this out, right? They have all this like, internal dialog. I'm going to check it out, and then before they know it, every once in a while, becomes more regular, because their body's like, Ooh, you want that. You want more of that, right? Their little internal dialog becomes that was fun, that felt weird, but kind of fun, and I want more of that, right? So yes, the parent who wrote this post is right. Her daughter made a mistake, and this mistake that she made sunk its hooks into her. And the benefit that this parent has is that her child has come to her for help. This is everything, no matter what we're talking about, addiction, school, mental health challenges, until our kids are at a place of willingness to get support, it is tough for us to force change, right? I'm going to say that again, until our kids are at a place of willingness to get support. It is really tough for us, the parents, to force change, no matter how creative we get, right? And so with this particular parent, she was asking for resources. So some of the resources that I offered was one, a website called thetruth.com which is designed for teens who are in active nicotine addiction and want help. Another website I offered was teen.smokefree.gov another place for resources for quitting nicotine. And I also shared this book, Alan Carr's easy way to quit vaping. So full transparency, kind of vulnerable. I might have mentioned this on the podcast before, but I have had a 20, well, actually 30 year on, again, off again relationship with nicotine myself, and I just like, live on the slippery slope. It's not all the time. It ebbs, it flows, but I'm tired of it, and so I read Alan Carr's easy way to quit smoking this summer, and it was my. Lower for me, it was so useful to read. And really what it focused on most was not the physical addiction. It didn't talk about the health risks. He didn't talk a lot about the cost, the financial cost. He really leaned heavy into the mental brainwashing that we do to continue to use the substance that really offers us nothing, and it was exactly what I needed. And he helped me to recognize how I can interrupt that brainwashing. And the breakthrough with teens would be to help them see their own mental brainwashing, right? And it's a tall order, because it requires our teens to be willing to be in humility, vulnerability, looking at their patterns and their habits. I mean, they're moving through the world with this idea that they're in control, right? Or at least proving that people can't control them, or presenting as in control, right? And so when we lean in and say, You can't do this, don't do this. Don't you know, this is an addiction. And you know all the things that we say and we want to say, Stop doing this thing, we also have to ask ourselves, okay, this thing has become a tool for them, in some ways, for coping with whatever it is that they're coping with. So it's also important to be supporting our kids and looking at other things they can do in those moments, either when their mental brainwashing or their physical addiction is kicking in and triggering them to want nicotine. But also, what do you do instead right addition rather than subtraction? Although subtraction of the substances is absolutely key, that's a piece of it, but we really got to be focusing in on, like, how can we help our kids build other like, build what to do instead of what not to do? And when you ask people, this is from the book, when you ask people who struggle with nicotine use if they wish they'd never started, the answer is yes, right? Absolutely. Especially adults, right? Teens aren't always there, but adults, any adult you ask, who's an active nicotine user, if you say, do you wish that you never started? They say, Yeah, I wish I never started. And what you don't realize is that we're constantly at that choice point. We're constantly at that place of starting again, the next cigarette, the next vape hit, right? And it's the brainwashing. It's that brainwashing. I need it. This is when I do it. You know? It's becomes the second nature move, and it's also that physical withdrawal that leads us to the next hit. So, yeah, nicotine is the worst. It's the worst. And those of you that are smokers or former smokers or users of nicotine, you know what I'm talking about, and it makes sense that it's so, so hard for our kids to let go of it, and it breaks my heart when I hear parents make deals with their kids, you know, or set up consequences without adding in the support their kids need to stop nicotine addiction is physical and it's mental, and when you look around at how many adults are struggling, Why do we think that all it takes is an agreement? We made an agreement, or, you know, a threat of a consequence that will get them to stop? They need more of your support than that. They need your support, and they need to know. And what I've said to one of my children that went through a period of time experimenting and kind of dancing with potential nicotine addiction is that ultimately, it's not about me. It's about their lifelong relationship with nicotine. It's theirs. It's their relationship that they're navigating. And you need to know that too. You can't control what their relationship with nicotine looks like. I know you want to. I wanted to as well. My parents wanted to control me, too, and guess what? I did it anyway, right? I was talking to another positive discipline lead trainer today, somebody that I whose opinion I value so much. She's amazing. She's a little bit older than me. Her kids are 10 years ahead of my kids, and her daughter, who's 28 now, they were talking, and she was telling me that when she was a teen. When her daughter was a teen, she came to her mom and told her that she was vaping, and her mom said, you know, I know that when it's important enough to you, you'll find a way to quit. I mean, wow, right? I know that when it's important enough to you, you'll find a way to quit, similar to what I said to my kiddo, like, this is your responsibility, and I'm here to love you and support you, but ultimately you get to decide your relationship with nicotine. It's really scary to hand that over to them, to let go of the idea that you can control this. I know you know what idea I encourage you to hold on to, though, that your kid is capable. Your kid is capable of creating the life that they want. Your kid is capable of asking for help and finding the resources they need. Your kid is capable, and yes, some of us have kids who don't want to quit. They don't see the problem, they don't feel the negative effects in a way that's motivating enough for them to do the hard work of making the change. And depending on the temperament of your kiddo, this may be the first time they're off the. Fails on something like this and not listening to reason or science, and it's so hard to hold I get it. I know, I know, I know, I know, I know it's so annoying. And you might have a kid who does have a lifelong relationship with nicotine, again, that's theirs. Here's what you can do, right? And these tips are gonna sound very familiar, because it's these tools that we talk about all the time here on the podcast. They're the tools that if we want to be a connected parent, these are the tools to use. They're the tools of positive discipline. So the first one, of course, you know where I'm going stay curious. Do this without judgment, doesn't mean you don't take time to voice your concerns, but don't center your concerns. Don't make the whole conversation about your concerns. This makes it all about you, and will potentially shut down your teen. You want to bring an energy that keeps them open to hearing you and in a space of willingness to consider their choices, a willingness to reflect how do I feel? How is this getting in the way, versus that defensive place, right? And side note, this is super messy, right? And on some level, my guess is that our kids know that they're walking a slippery path, and depending on what they've got going on, your disappointment or judgment or opinion will put them in a place of defense, right? Know that this is happening when it's happening, right? You can even say something like, I'm guessing it's really hard to hear my concerns, or I get that this is a conversation you'd rather not have, and follow it with, I

Casey O'Roarty 16:33
love you too much not to bring it up and talk about it. Right? You could also say, if it's if everybody's lid is flipped and dysregulation is happening. It's important to say, let's put a pin in this. Let's pause this, but I'm going to come back and talk more about it, because I'm concerned about your health, and I'm really curious about how you're thinking about this particular choice, right? The other thing you need to do is listen. I know, duh, but listen and then listen more. Do less, talking, not lecturing, right? Not telling them all the terrible things that come with nicotine addiction. They know they've heard it right? Don't assume that they don't know. Get back to curiosity. Talk to me about what you know about nicotine addiction. Talk to me about what you know vaping does to the body. Are you concerned about that? Have you had any times where you've noticed, like, it's hard to take a breath, or you can't run as fast as you did, or it's harder to play your sport, you know. And even in those questions, they might be like, No, I'm fine, but you're putting them in the position of thinking about those questions, and even if internally, they're like, yeah, it's I totally wheezing when I run, and they want to save face in front of you and say, No, I'm fine. Like, it doesn't matter. It's not about their answer. It's about sparking that internal exploration so that they can be making the choices for themselves. Obviously, offer resources. So I mentioned some at the top. Then you can Google it. You can Google it together. There's lots of resources around teen vaping, because it is such a problem, right? It's such a problem, so look up things together, right and offer resources. Set boundaries. You get to set personal boundaries. And for me, when we were moving through this, I said explicitly, listen, I'm going to interrupt, intervene and interfere when I know that this is happening. And what that looks like was me taking if I found a vape, same with weed, like right in alcohol, if I found things, I took them right and invite them into processing. So, you know, if I found something in the house, which I have, I found nicotine patches, we found nicotine vapes, weed vapes, flour joints, yeah, I find all the things in my house. I'm just like you, and the thing that is important to me is that my kids are thinking about their choices, not that they're listening to what I have to say, but they're actually generating the ability I want them to get ever better at that ability to think critically. So I'll ask things from a really neutral place. Tell me about your use. How often are you using this? How do you know when it's a problem? How do you know when it's getting in the way of your life? Do you envision yourself using this forever, right?

Casey O'Roarty 19:13
And of course, remembering that they will only have so much tolerance for this conversation. So reiterating this is ultimately me. This is what, exactly what I said to Ian. This is ultimately me helping you nurture your own critical thinking about this stuff, because ultimately, all of this affects you and your life, not my life, right? And so, yeah, so we get to invite them into the processing. We get to stay active in the conversation with them as well, and rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat. It is so hard to know that our kids are using substances that are harmful for them, right? It's hard to watch our kids who have really bad eating habits. It's difficult to watch our kids, you know, misuse, overuse screens. I did that whole episode a couple of weeks ago about screens. And yes, we get to, I think I've said this on the pod before, but you know my kids, I worry that I'm permissive. For sure, I have had, I definitely feel like because I don't lean in on punishment and consequences, I can sometimes wonder myself, like, gosh, have I just been super lenient? Have I been permissive with my kids? And when I check in with them, they look at me like, I am crazy. They are like, Are you kidding me? You're like, the strictest parent there is. And they say that it comes because I always hold them to processing. We talk about things. Tell me about that. How do you feel about that? How did that work out for you? What are you gonna do next time? How is this gonna affect your life? You know, how would you feel if XYZ, right? And really, it's not about me, it's about them reflecting on and considering their choices. It's a lot easier to not have to think deeply about things and just fly by the seat of your pants and hope that it all works out, or even fly by the seat of your pants. Maybe get caught, maybe get grounded, whatever, doing my time and I'm right back out there having some, you know, quote, fun or a teen mischief. So my kids are really they were like, No, you're super strict. And when it comes to vaping, like I said at the at the beginning, I think something that's really important is, is we really need to make sure that they understand that these choices are for them, right? These are choices that they are going to make, that they are making, that ultimately are only going to affect their lives. I mean, does it affect us? Yeah, because we're disappointed, we're sad. We have our own issues and relationships with substances that might be being triggered because of watching our kids. We don't want them to make the same mistakes we made, for sure that got in my way. But this isn't about you. This is about them. It's not that you disappear and you say and do nothing, right, but it is that you show up non judgmental man. You got yourself into a pickle here, right? And now, it's not so much about the nicotine, as much as it is about the addiction to the nicotine. And that's what we want to focus on. How to interrupt that internal brainwashing, how to interrupt the idea that the only thing that's going to make them feel better or calm down or focus or feel belonging, or whatever they're using it for, is nicotine, right? So it really is an exploration of, what else could you be doing? What would be helpful? How can I support you? I love you. I'm gonna love you no matter what. I'll be sad for you to be, you know, addicted to a substance. I would be really sad for me if the substance ultimately killed you. Of course, not gonna just lay around and say, like, good luck with that. But it is their journey. It's their journey. So that's what I got for you today. About vaping. I don't think I've done any shows that have been specific to vaping nicotine. I would love to hear your thoughts. I would love to hear your thoughts. And if you're somebody who's listening to this, and you're like, yeah, no, if I caught my kid vaping, I would put the hammer down. Okay, you do you right? And I just want to remind you that when we get really heavy handed with our kids, when they're getting into mischief, and really lean into the consequences and the punishment and the threats and the privileges being taken away, do you know what your kids will do? Most likely, just go underground, just keep things from you, just get more secretive, right? And then they don't have a healthy adult to process with. They don't have someone who's gonna use curiosity to help them build their critical thinking. They're secretive. They don't think you can handle it. They don't tell you things, you know, it's not a great place to be, you know. And I mentioned setting boundaries, like interrupting, intervening, interfering. Was mine, right? It never became a situation with vaping nicotine where it was like, I was just like, Okay, well, good luck with that, you know, or you can do it. You just have to do it outside. We never got to that place. And I do know families where, you know, the kids are in pretty hardcore, active addiction, and then it's like, we're going on a family trip. Have you been with someone who is addicted to nicotine and then doesn't have it for a few days? If you're gonna make a hard line, like, yeah, we're going to grandma and grandpa's house, you cannot bring your vape pen. Then you also get to be in your own self regulation when your kid is unable to regulate because their body is going through such intense physical worth of draw, right? Like, it's slippery and hard, and I know, and I'm not here to say, like, just let them do it, but I am here to say, have some compassion, right? Have some compassion. Show up. Find your neutral. Find your neutral so that you can say things like, Okay, we're going to grandma and grandpa's. I'm not okay with you vaping. What can we do to make this weekend not a total nightmare, right? And maybe you talk about some alternatives, maybe they have some ideas, right? You get to work together, and you get to continue to reiterate, I'm not okay with this. This is unhealthy, and this is something that eventually you're going to want to quit, and it's hard. So why not do it now? Right? It's mess. I know it's messy, I which I wish I had, like, a five step plan to get your kid off nicotine, but I don't, I don't, because it's messy. And our kids are individuals, and we're individuals, but I will tell you, the more you can lean into curiosity, the more open and responsive you can be when they share with you, non judgmental, the more you can be in collaboration and solution finding and problem solving with them, the better. The better. The likelihood is that they will get to that place of willingness, and when they get to that place of willingness, they'll come to you because they know that you'll support them. Whoo, boo, nicotine. Anyway. Let me know if you have any questions. I am here for it. You can shoot me an email at Casey, at joyful courage.com, also, if you're not on my newsletter list, do it? Do it? Get on my newsletter list. I post about all the podcasts every week. Every Friday, I send out an email about each week's podcast. I share a little something tying into the podcast to my personal life, what's going on in the community that I see. It's just like getting a friendly email, right? An email from your friend, your friend, Casey, and it's not spammy. It also, if you're on my list, you hear about my offers, my classes, my opt ins. And, you know, starting in 2025 I'm gonna do a monthly free, little free opt in thing for all of you that I've been planning and really excited about. So get on my email list. You can get there by going to be sproutable.com/email be sproutable.com/email and once you get there, you just check off the teens and tweens box and the parent box, parent caregiver box, and you'll be on the list, and we'll be good to go, and you'll get all the good stuff, all the good stuff. All right, my friends, I hope that you have a beautiful weekend. I will be dancing away to Billy strings. Anybody know who Billy strings is? He's a bluegrass kid, and I'm super excited I get to hear him for my first time this weekend, and then I'll be back again next week with a brand new interview and solo show. Actually, it won't be a brand new interview. I'm gonna post a rerun interview with my good friend Janae young. It's all about college applications and essays. I know a lot of you are in the trenches of that and but a new solo show. And yeah, I'll be talking to you real soon. Bye.

Casey O'Roarty 27:32
Thank you so much for listening in today. Thank you so much to my sproutable partners, Julieta and Alana, as well as Danielle and Chris Mann and the team at pod shaper for all the support with getting this show out there and helping it to sound so good. Check out our offers for parents with kids of all ages, and sign up for our newsletter to stay better connected@besproutable.com tune back in on Monday for a brand new interview, and I will be back solo with you next Thursday. Have a great day. You.