Transcription
Casey O'Roarty 0:00
Joyful courage, parenting podcast episode 53
Hey listeners, welcome back to the podcast. I'm so glad that you came to listen in yet again this week, I'm really excited about my guest. Her name is Rebecca Mickey, and she is a sleep consultant, and she's local to my area. She's out of Seattle, and we've met at a variety of different functions for people who love to work with moms, and have been talking about getting together for a podcast for a long time, and today's the day I'm so excited and well, you know, this is the story that I tell about sleep. So both of my kids co slept. We had a beautiful crib that my stepmom lovingly bought for us as soon as she found out that we were pregnant. It was gorgeous. And the the what do you call it? The not banking, the bumpers, Bumpers is that we call it. They're really cute. We had all these great, cute sheets for it, and stuff the animal, blah, blah, blah. It was really cute. And then we had our babies, and they never slept in the crib. They always slept with us. I was a super nursing mom, and it seemed really strange to me to think about my babies in a crib, in another room, or even in my room. We had really we lived in a really small house anyway, so they just slept with us, mostly by default, and that worked for us. That's what we did. It worked for me and my husband and Ken. I just I will never forget all of the comments that I would get from a variety of people about my kids sleeping with me, one of which was, you'll never get them out of your bed. Case, and I'm happy to report both kids sleep independently in their own rooms. I can say goodnight, walk away, close the door. It's done. So for anyone out there who has chosen co sleeping and is getting a lot of flack from people around you, just know that it's it's all good. Make the right choice for your family. And something that I always said about both about nursing and about co sleeping was, we're gonna do this as long as it's working for both of us. Meaning, you know, when I started to feel uncomfortable, not uncomfortable, but like ready I made. I made changes. I took action. And you know, when the kids are ready, I also watch for their cues, and when they show signs of being ready for something, you know, we take action then. So anyway, that's my sleep story. And my kids were not great sleepers. By the way. They woke up a lot. They hated sleeping on their backs. Yeah, it was. It was a crazy, like, five year stretch of very little sleep for me. One shoulder always kind of tweaked, because I would always have it my arm up because they'd fall asleep nursing anyway. I really could have used Rebecca back then. You're gonna love her. She's great. She's got a great English accent, which is always fun to listen to, but she's got some really great advice, and is really wise around the ways of sleeping, both with babies and toddlers, and we're going to talk about older kids as well. So I hope that you enjoy it. I know bedtime can feel crazy sometimes, and you're going to hear a lot in this episode about ways to make it less crazy. After the episode, you're also going to hear about a new program that I have coming out in August, which is free, free, free, free, and it will help with bedtime too. I'm telling you also at the end of the show today, I'm going to talk about this week's webinar. I have a webinar going live on Wednesday for people who pre register. So I'm going to tell you about both of those things after the show, but for now, how about we get to the content and meet Rebecca. All right, see you after
Hey there. Rebecca, welcome to the podcast.
Rebecca Michi 4:18
Hi. How are you? I'm
Casey O'Roarty 4:20
great. I'm so excited to have you on will you please tell the listeners a little bit about your family and your journey to doing what you do? Certainly.
Rebecca Michi 4:29
My name is Rebecca Mickey. I am a mom of two. I'm obviously not local to the US. I grew up in the UK. I'm a children's sleep consultant. I trained in the UK. My journey to get here is a it's a little unusual. My whole life I've been working with families in different capacities, and it seemed that so often families were having issues with. Sleep so often. I mean having two kids, I had issues with sleep with young children, and so it just seemed that that really seemed to be what I needed to be helping families with. And I my daughters just have a 14 month age gap. And with two girls so close in age, I realized that temperament plays a very big part in just every day, because they were, you know, so close in age, brought up exactly the same, but so very different. And then I noticed as well with their sleep, how different their sleep was, even though everything was the same, and a lot of that was to do with their temperament. And so I do really look at a child's temperament and a uniqueness when I'm working with families and we're looking at sleep, oh, cool.
Casey O'Roarty 5:46
That makes me think I just recently was working with a client who has twin three year olds, and that bedtime is a challenge, for sure.
Rebecca Michi 5:57
With one three year old, it's a challenge, right? I
Casey O'Roarty 6:00
know I was kind of like, Ah, let me try to help you. What kinds of sleep challenges do clients typically come to you with? So the
Rebecca Michi 6:13
average age of my clients is around eight months old, and at that point, families are struggling with a child who's falling asleep independently, and so the child is Wait, is needing help, initially getting to sleep, but then waking many, many times the night and still needing help. And this may be many times a night, so we're talking could be up to sort of 1012, wakings a night that the child is physically needing help. But I do work with families who have children who are three months old right up to six years old. So there's obviously a real broad range of issues there, but mainly the issues that I'm working with are teaching a child how to fall asleep a little more independently.
Casey O'Roarty 6:56
Yeah, I was a this lands with me because I was a co sleeping, nursing mama. And it was, it was hard. On one hand, it was hard, but on the other hand, it was easy because it felt so right. It Yeah, you know, I could just roll over and take care of the needs of my child, but at the same time, they woke up a lot, and I was waking up to roll over a lot, but I never really felt good about any of the you know, the popular methods out there to help kids sleep either. It was so extreme on one end that I just couldn't close the door and just let them cry for five hours. And then, on the other hand, I loved is it Elizabeth pantley? Is that who wrote, yeah, so the no cry sleep solution, but even that felt really like complicated, and I, while I pulled a lot from it that was helpful, I never could really get to that like my baby sleeps all night. Right? So how do you support what's kind of your philosophy around supporting parents with sleep and their babies? The
Rebecca Michi 7:59
the way that I go about it is I'm looking at every family dynamic as a complete individual, and what is right for that family is going to be very different than is what is right for another family. I mean, what's right for my family is really different to what's right for yours. Right? You have your own family rules and everything, and I have my own, and they may be clashed very differently with yours, maybe exact polar opposites, but that doesn't mean that mine are right and yours are wrong or the other way around. And so I'm treating sort of that people's family dynamic is very unique. It is not for me to tell a family what's right or what's wrong. It's not for me to say that you shouldn't be co sleeping. If that's what works for your family, that's great. And I think, I think co sleeping is great if it works for you and you're doing it safely. It's a wonderful, wonderful thing. And so that's, you know, I support families who are co sleeping, who are bed sharing and nursing all through the night, which is, which is great if that's sort of working for them, that's great. If that's not working for them and they have another dynamic, I will support them in I'm looking more at what that result is. What are the results that the family want? Do they want to be moving from bed sharing to more independent sleep? Has their child always slept alone? But they want to teach independent sleep? And so we're looking at really what those results are, and supporting the family, whilst looking at the child's unique temperaments, but also looking at parenting style. Because I can say to I mean, I could have said to you, yeah, to move away from bed sharing. You just got to put your child in their room, shut the door, and leave them to cry. And you wouldn't have done that, because that's not something that sit, that would sit right with you, and so you're not going to follow through with that, because it just makes you feel kind of icky inside. Yeah, so that's not the right advice for you. So it's my job to find what's going to work for the child, but also what's going to work for the family, because they're having to do this night in, night out. So there's no right, there's no wrong. It's just. Finding what is going to work for each individual family. Oh,
Casey O'Roarty 10:03
Rebecca, I love that. It's so respectful. Yes,
Rebecca Michi 10:06
yeah. And that's we want to be respected as human beings. We want that nobody likes to be told what to do and that you're doing something wrong. Nobody wants that, and you're because you're not doing something wrong. If you're doing things safely, then you're doing everything right, especially when it comes to sleep. Sleep is, you know, we can last longer without food than we can sleep. So sleep is a real basic need, and we kind of do whatever we need to do to get as much of it as possible. Sleep deprivation is a form of torture, and when you've had a baby, you understand how effective that is,
Casey O'Roarty 10:43
yeah, for real well. And I remember being a new mom and reading somewhere or hearing somewhere that, because that's always the first question, right? Oh, well, is your baby sleeping through the night? And if the answer isn't Yes, you feel like you have to come up with this long explanation or defense, right? And I remember reading somewhere that if your baby is sleeping up to four hours stretches, then you can confidently say, yes. Is that true?
Rebecca Michi 11:20
Well, actually, sleeping through the night is classed as getting five consecutive hours after midnight. Oh, okay, so it's not even before midnight, so it's after midnight, five consecutive hours. That's not really what I class sleeping through the night. Okay? Because it's not really sleeping through the night. But for some that that is it. You know it is. It's, it's a competition from having a newborn. There's one thing that you're also often, Oh, are they a good sleeper? So we're already defining it as being good or bad, right? They're a bad No, the what's the alternative? They're a bad sleeper? Well, no, they're sleeping like a newborn. Newborns wake up tons because they're so tiny, they need feeding often, and that is more what's governing a newborn waking and so it's not good, it's not bad, it's normal. Yeah, it's completely normal. And that's sort of what we sort of we all want to be getting hours and hours and hours of sleep, but nobody goes into parenthood thinking they're going to be getting hours and hours and hours of sleep, right? We know we're going to be tired well,
Casey O'Roarty 12:21
and I appreciate that they're sleeping like a newborn. It's like with toddlers, when you know the defiant that, you know, quote, defiance, or that exploration period, or, you know, oh, they're naughty. It's like, actually, no, they're toddlers, yes, and everything in their body is telling them to explore the world. So this isn't exactly child, yeah. So what about as they get older, and, you know, like I said, I co slept, and whenever I work with families who make those choices, I come from a really similar way of thinking that you do it's, you know, doing what feels good, doing what feels what you're comfortable with, what you value with your individual family. And for us, it was co sleeping. And I remember my, you know, family members specifically saying like, Oh, you're never gonna get them out of your bed. Or, you know, with the nursing we did, extended nursing and oh, you're never gonna get them off the boob. And it was like, You know what, we're gonna do this, as long as it's working for me and my child, and when it stopped working on either side, we started to make changes. And one of the changes was helping the kids, you know, start off in their bed and, you know, with the goal of being able to say, Okay, I love you, good night, and walking out of the room and that, you know that transition is also something that can be a struggle, because sometimes they won't stay in bed, or they have a million requests, or whatever the challenge is. How do you what types of routines do you find helpful for parents who are trying to help their kids? You know, with that, you know, you know adults in the room or walking away or whatever, yeah,
Rebecca Michi 14:07
oftentimes, when we're doing this, you may have that you've moved from bed sharing to try to be a little bit more independent. You can also get issues with this when moving from a crib to a bed that because now your child can suddenly get out, right? They're fine. Yeah, they will, just for no other reason, but because they can. That's the only reason they're going to do it. And so when we a lot of time, we're dealing with a child who's really sort of very, very physically active, and getting a child to actually relax and unwind is incredibly hard to do when we're dealing with toddlers and preschoolers, they are on the go from the second that they wake up until they resentfully fall asleep at the end, at the end of the day. So trying to actually work on getting a child relaxed is really, really helpful this because obviously, the more physically mentally relaxed we are, the easier we have. A week easier time we have falling asleep, so looking at activities as part of a nighttime routine to actually work on winding down and getting relaxed. And so that does mean physically slowing down. And so going into wherever it is that you're going to be doing your bedtime routine and just physically slowing things down, so we're not having any big play, no rough and tumble, to try and sort of get that release of energy, because that's not going to be helping at all, but just physically slowing down. We can have play, but it wants to be more calm, quiet play and obviously singing songs, reading books, these are all things that are really, really relaxing when we're dealing with sort of this age, pre toddler, preschooler. These children like to be in charge, and so they want, like to dictate the way things are going to go. I really think that there are things within our bedtime that can be negotiable and things that can't be negotiable. You can decide which pajamas you're going to wear, which toothbrush you're going to use, which books we we read, songs we sing, toys that you play with. But there are things that are going to be non negotiable, like you do need to brush your teeth, that's something that we negotiate on. And then one of those things would maybe that okay, you can have one drink after you've gone into bed, and that's it. That's we're not going to be negotiating on that once we've got into bed. And so if you know your child is going to always be, you know, occasionally they're going to push against those boundaries just to check that they're still in place. You want to be super consistent, so just being really consistent, not changing from night to night, but really consistent with what your rules are with bedtime. We want this. We want to have things that are completely non negotiable when it comes to bedtime. But on the flip side, we need to have those things that are completely negotiable with bedtime, because then your child's feeling a little bit more empowered, right? That they were able to be really sort of, you know, you know, taking part, and they were being able to dictate certain things that happened, but then they'll have a bit of an easier time with those things that are non negotiable, because it's not all been taken out of their hands.
Casey O'Roarty 17:01
I love that. And you know that I teach positive discipline, and what we would call that is being kind and firm right. Firmness is in the structure. The kindness is in the freedom within the structure for some shared power, I think that cannot be emphasized enough, especially with kids, with those toddlers and preschoolers, absolutely. I really appreciate that. And, you know, just a little side story, I remember these routines are so powerful. I remember traveling with my kids, road tripping with my kids, and, you know, visiting with friends who had who had kids as well, and bedtime. And you know, it's that urgency of like, well, I want to hang out with my girlfriends. I got to get these kids to bed. Get these kids to bed, and when I took the time to go in to read, I remember we went through this long period of time where the Curious George soundtrack was the bedtime music, and just taking the time to read to them, just like as if we were at home, even though they were on sleeping bags on the floor and leaving with that music playing, it just, you know, it was so easy, yeah, in a situation that could have been really challenging, because they were visiting with friends too. So yes, love the routine. What about I'm gonna launch you. Remind me, how old are your girls? You have two girls, right? Yeah, I
Rebecca Michi 18:19
do. They are 12 and 11.
Casey O'Roarty 18:21
Okay, perfect. So what about our older kids? What about our teens? What suggestions do you have about because, you know, we read about their shifting biological clock as far as, yeah, wanting to stay up later and sleep in longer. And the reality is the school districts, many school districts have not gotten the memo on
Rebecca Michi 18:44
so frustrating. Oh
Casey O'Roarty 18:45
my gosh, it's like, when can we look at what's best for kids anyway? So they're getting up during the school year. They're getting up so early, and yet, in the evenings, they're, you know, everything inside of their body is is wanting them to stay up later. What kinds of suggestions do you have for parents handling that situation?
Rebecca Michi 19:05
It's tough, and it may be something that you're beginning to see. I'm certainly beginning to see that. So, yeah, so their body clock kind of shifts that they want to stay up late. They're kind of more programmed to stay up late, and we're going to remember that they still need nine hours sleep at night, at night, eight or nine hours sleep a night. And so if they're having to then get up early, they're missing out on sleep, right? They're not going to sleep till 11 o'clock, midnight, and then they're having to be up really, really early. They've missing out on at least, you know, two, three hours, yeah, and yeah, a night. And then come the weekends, they can make up on a certain percent of that. But you have to think that if that's two hours a night they've missed out on that's 10 hours that they need to make up on Saturday on top of the nine that they already
Casey O'Roarty 19:55
need. And can you really make up?
Rebecca Michi 19:58
You can't. Make up for all of it, right? You kind of lose it. Yeah? You do, yeah, you do. So it is that really, really is tough, but there are some things that we can do to help, thank goodness. One of them, which is really going to help, is having limiting your child playing with electronics late into the day, because when they are playing on a laptop, on their phone, when the screen is it's a blue light, very broad spectrum light, exactly the same as sunlight. So they're looking at this as they're as they're in bed. Then the brain is not thinking that it needs to be going to sleep, because it's a little mini sunshine right in front of them. And so the brain does not think that sleep is going to be coming anytime soon. So eliminating electronics from the bedroom will actually, really, will actually help, because your child is then gearing up, they're going to have an easier time falling asleep, because the brain thinks that actually sleep is going to be coming, that it is night time. And the same thing goes for energy saving light bulbs get those out of the sleep space, because, again, it's a very broad spectrum light, exactly the same spectrum as sunlight. And so having those on in the bedroom, again, the brain's thinking that it's it's daylight, it's not producing melatonin. Melatonin induces sleep. So we want to make the most of this. So using incandescent light bulbs in the bedroom can can make a world of difference. Because you're going into the bedroom turning on a lamp, incandescent bulb, their brain is then it's dark, it's dim, it then starts reducing melatonin. Melatonin is going to induce sleep, so falling asleep is going to be so much easier. So if you're getting into bed, your team's getting into bed, and they're reading in bed, then they go with an incandescent bulb in the room. They're gonna fall asleep probably a lot quicker than they would do with an energy saving bulb, or if they were playing on their phone
Casey O'Roarty 21:50
well and just side note on the electronics in the bedroom. I've learned from experience, even the most responsible of our teens to put them in a situation where they have to manage their own impulses around, checking text, checking social media at bedtime with that phone, regardless of what they've said around, oh no, I'm good. I'm you know, it's just not fair to have that in the room. So we now have everybody's electronics downstairs plugged in charging at bedtime. So yes, hooray. And oh my gosh, the light bulbs. We've always turned we've always dimmed the lights, even when the kids were little, we'd turn off all the lights in the living space because they don't want to miss out on things. So yeah, turning off the lights downstairs helps them to recognize there's not anything going on without you, so I really appreciate that, and we just put, like bedtime lamps on when we're doing the bedtime routine, instead of the ceiling lights that are so bright. But I never thought of those energy saving light bulbs as working against us. Yes, sir. I
Rebecca Michi 22:56
know. Darn I know we all want to, yeah. We want to be environmentally friendly and yeah, but we want to keep those out of the sleep space. I mean, of course, still have one, maybe in the ceiling light, sure. But then when you're getting ready for bed, you have a lamp that you're going to you can still buy incandescent bulbs. They're low wattage. You can still get them as store, yes.
Casey O'Roarty 23:13
Okay, good. Thank you. But those are all really good, important tips and and nine hours a night. So teens getting nine hours is the healthy amount. What about as kids? You know, younger kids? What are that? What's that? How much sleep should they be getting? Like our school age kids? And yeah, so
Rebecca Michi 23:33
I'll go through the whole range. So zero to three months, they need between 14 and 17 hours per 24 hours. So that's obviously going to be with naps and night time. Four to 11 months, between 12 and 15 hours per 24 hours. One to two year olds need between 11 and 14 hours total per 24 hours. So that's with night time, nap time, three to five year olds between 10 and 13 hours, you may be kind of dropping a nap at that point, between three and five years, and then between six and 13 years, between nine and 11 hours per 24 hours. But every human has their own individual sleep need, how much they need. Mine's probably very different from yours, and how they're going to, how they will sleep better. And so we want to be looking at each individual and getting them the amount of sleep that they need, rather than looking more and trying to get on the lower end, right. Because adults need between, you know, between seven. It's generally between seven and nine. They cease to sort of, now it's sort of seven and eight, but it's just sort of finding out really what that individual needs to be functioning and to be not feeling tired and not feel that they're needing a nap during the day. We probably all know what ours is as an adult, and it's then the adults job to find what that what that need is for the child. Because until. A child is really an adult, they're going to say that they don't need as much as they do. And whether that's with a three year old or a 17 year old, they're going to say they don't need as much as they do, right?
Casey O'Roarty 25:13
What do you feel or what do you Yeah, what do you wish parents understood about sleep?
Rebecca Michi 25:20
That's a great question, that humans wake between two and six times a night. Waking is completely normal for all of us, and waking is never really a problem. There's any problem if it's many, many, many, many times and you struggle to get back to sleep. So waking is not really an issue. Everybody wants their child to sleep through the night. The night. They're not ever going to get their child sleeping through the night. Their child will wake. So what we want to be looking at is we want to be looking at having a child having the ability to get themselves back to sleep. So that means that they are able then when they wake during the night, they're not requiring help, because they are always going to wake during the night, and we want them to be able to put themselves back to sleep so nobody sleeps through the night,
Casey O'Roarty 26:06
yay. Thank you for saying that out loud. Rebecca, hold on one second. I'm gonna have to edit this part out, but my I have to take care of my puppy really quick. Okay?
Oh, my gosh, I'm so sorry. Oh, that's fine. Don't worry. That's what happens when the kids are home and you're trying to work, right? Oh, yes, okay, let me just find my calm really quick. All right, so what is the one thing parents can put into place today to create a better sleep situation in their home? What would be your advice on that
Rebecca Michi 26:54
the one thing we really want to do, and you can start doing this when your kids are really, really young right through to adulthood, is not making bedtime, the bedroom a place of punishment, because early night, if you don't do this, you go into bed early, or you're going for you know your room, the room is seen as a negative space, or we have sleep as Being a negative thing as a form of punishment. We want sleep to be a great thing. We want to be something that your child is willingly doing. We want your child to willingly go into their room each each night. They want them to willingly go for their nap. So just completely disassociating sleep as a form of punishment, because just feel when you get into bed each night, isn't it just like, great. When you just get into bed, you just like this thing. It's wonderful. We want that. We want our kids to be feeling that as well. But if we're setting up that you're going to go to bed early as and it's a punishment, then it's not, it's not that they're kind of resenting it. And we don't want kids to sort of grow up resenting sleep, because sleep is just wonderful. It's going to help them with so many aspects of their life if they're getting a good night's sleep, and we can start this off really, really young by having sleep as being a positive thing and not a negative thing.
Casey O'Roarty 28:15
Oh, I love that. I love that. So my last question for you, Rebecca is What does joyful courage mean to you?
Rebecca Michi 28:26
Well, I think joyful courage to me means going forward on whatever kind of journey, especially with our parenting journey, because it is completely the unknown, but going forward and just doing it with a smile on your face, and trying to enjoy every single moment, even in those bits that are really crummy, the bits that are no fun whatsoever, trying to see where what you can what you can get from it. Because even when there's the most awful things happening, like, you know, poop everywhere you're even if you're there thinking, one day, I will laugh about this, that just to take something from it and just sort of just to go with a real positive on in this journey that's completely unknown, completely unknown to us, but to just look at it in a real positive way,
Casey O'Roarty 29:17
I like that. Where can listeners find you and follow your work. So
Rebecca Michi 29:24
you can find me on my website. My website is children sleep consultant.com, you can find me on Facebook. Of a real active community on Facebook, and that's just my name, Rebecca Mickey, children's sleep consultant. You can find me there. It's a lot of info that goes on my Facebook page. So they're really the main places I am, on Twitter and all those other places, but Facebook and my website are where you can get all the juicy stuff.
Casey O'Roarty 29:50
Awesome. Thank you. I will make sure listeners, as you know, I'll make sure that we have links in the show notes to all of that and how they can find you and keep connecting with your. Work, yay. Thank you so much for coming on the show. You're welcome. It's
Rebecca Michi 30:03
been fun. Yay.
Casey O'Roarty 30:12
Hey. Thanks again to Rebecca for coming on the show and talking sleep with us. Oh my gosh. Wasn't that so great. I took so much away from that conversation, and I'm just it's just so lovely to talk to somebody who spends their time focused on one thing, which for Rebecca, is sleep. It's super helpful, super duper helpful. So you know also, one thing that happens with sleep is when our kids don't sleep well, we don't sleep well, right? And when we don't sleep well, we also don't really show up as our best self, our best parenting self. So like I said at the very beginning of the show, I have a program next month, starting August 24 10 days, 10 day program for parents. And the purpose of the program is to help you, support you in one really exploring and defining your parenting style. That's no not your parenting style, but your parents. Your parenting way of being. Who do you want to be as a parent when your kids show up challenging, when it's you know, two in the morning and they can't go back to sleep, and you are the one to help them when it's hard. How do you want to show up for your kids? Have you thought about that? We thought about the way you want to be when everything in your body tells you to react goes into survival mode. Who do you want to be in those moments? That's one of the things that we're going to explore in the joyful courage 10, which is that free program. The other thing we're going to explore is then how to practice being in that body, being in that way of being that you have declared is what you want on your parenting journey, we're gonna practice. We're gonna practice how to get there. Because, as you know, just because you've read a great book or listened to a super awesome podcast or had a conversation, doesn't mean and said, You know, I'm going to do this from now on. Doesn't mean that we're not always able to then implement, take it into action. Take it from our head into our body. So the joyful courage 10 is designed to begin that practice. Begin that routine of showing up intentionally for your kids, maintaining relationship and love, even as you have to lean into your firmness, even as they are uncomfortable or emotionally dysregulated, being intentional around showing up as your best self, even when it's hard to do that is joyful courage 10. If you're thinking to yourself, dang, that sounds good, head on over to my website. It's www, dot, joyful courage.com/jc, 10. Www, dot, joyful courage.com/jc, 10. And that will get you to the page where you want to be to register, and again, it's free, so come and join me August 24 through September 1. All right. And if you're thinking that might, that might be kind of cool, and you, you know maybe want to get to know me a little bit more. Maybe this is your first podcast. Hi, hi, new listeners. Thank you so much. So appreciating you. If you want to check out more about more of what I do and kind of see me in action, I have a webinar happening on Wednesday, July 27 and it's called Brain informed parenting, and I'm going to take some of what I've learned from Dan Siegel, some of what I've learned from positive discipline, and put it together in a really powerful webinar format for all of you, and talk about the brain, help you have a deeper understanding of the brain, so that you can use that and recognize when your kids have just slipped into that Survival Mode. It's not about you. You don't need to take it personally. They're not trying to manipulate you. They are literally working with the brain they have, and you'll have a better understanding of it, and because of your better understanding, you will be that much more likely to stay calm and centered and help them navigate those big emotions that can show up. Okay, so that webinar, if you go to the joyful courage Facebook page, you will see it under Events. Or if you go to the live and love with joyful courage Facebook group and join you will see the webinar under Events. Okay, I will also have a. Inc, for registering in the show notes today. Okay, so if that sounds good to you, I really encourage you to register, even if you can't make it. It's Wednesday evening at 8pm Pacific Standard Time, which I know is crazy late for everybody to the east of me. However, it's the only time I can do it. So the replay will be available to everyone who registers. You have to be registered to get the replay. Though, last week, we had 85 people registered. It was fantastic. I expect more this week, and I only have room for 100 people, so make sure that you jump into that, into the show notes, and click on the link. It's really, really easy to web to register. And again, this is free too. So yeah, there you go. I got all sorts of things for you this week. Thank you so much for listening, for showing up, for laughing at me, with me, learning from me, inspiring me. I am so in love with our community of parents, and so grateful for the work that I do. So if you have any questions or feedback, you can always shoot me an email. Casey at joyful courage.com you can find joyful courage on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook, and again, we have a thriving community, a thriving community group live and love with joyful courage that's also on Facebook. So find us. Come hang out with us. Big, huge love to you and happy parenting, happy journeying.
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