Transcription
Casey O'Roarty 0:00
Hey, this is Casey, and you are listening to the joyful courage parenting podcast episode 32
Hey, everybody. First, I want to acknowledge that this podcast is coming out a day late, sorry. Life has been crazy over here, I've had the extreme privilege to do some traveling. Over the last couple weeks, I have been in New Mexico, in Albuquerque, New Mexico, and I trained 20 new parent educators there in positive discipline, which was amazing. Shout out to my friends, doing the good work in New Mexico. So grateful to know you. And then this last weekend, I was in Boise doing the same thing. I trained nine new parent educators in Boise so that the work of positive discipline can be spread to families over there as well. Great, great experience. So grateful to be able to connect with people that way. Anyway, it's a lot of work, and so now it's Wednesday morning. It's actually like 530 in the morning on Wednesday. And I want to get this podcast out. I'm so excited for my guest, Kelly boss, she actually we recorded an interview last summer, but the sound wasn't great, so it never got put on the air. But she came back and we talked about what it's like to be in relationship with a partner and come from different parenting styles that can be tricky and messy, and again, it's that word relationship and connection that shows up. You know, it's not just for our kids, right? It's also for the other people that we care about in our life. So Kelly is phenomenal. She's a psychotherapist. She lives in the Caribbean. She works with couples, she works with families. She writes incredible articles, some of which you'll see in the show notes. And she's just really wise when it comes to talking about relationship. And I appreciated this conversation on a personal level, as well as being able to share it with all of you. So I think you'll love it. Stick around. The end of the show, I'm going to talk a little bit about an offer I have through a startup company here in Seattle, for just doing it, taking a baby step towards coaching. I want to make sure that you all know about it. It's actually an online slash coaching program that's just two weeks, small steps you can make each day towards gaining more calm and connection in your home. So stick around, and I'll tell you about that at the end. But for now, let's talk to Kelly.
Hey there, Kelly, welcome back to the joyful courage podcast.
Kelly Bos 3:18
Thank you so much pleasure to be here.
Casey O'Roarty 3:21
Please share a little bit about yourself. You've been here before, but just the highlights about yourself with the listeners.
Kelly Bos 3:30
Well, I live in the British Virgin Islands. That's probably the oddest thing about me right now, is that my family and I have been living in the islands for just under seven years I am a mom and a wife. I have two children, a little boy who's almost two and a daughter who's seven.
Casey O'Roarty 3:49
Were they both born on the island? Both No, they
Kelly Bos 3:53
weren't. But my my daughter spent most of her life over here, and my son obviously his two but he's got a shorter life.
Casey O'Roarty 4:04
Yes, he does two solid years in. Yes,
Kelly Bos 4:07
yeah, he spent a bit of time in Canada first, and then we moved back.
Casey O'Roarty 4:11
Got it, and right now you're speaking from a school right, where you are a school counselor.
Kelly Bos 4:17
That's right, I work part time as a school counselor and part time in private practice and part time researching and writing and part time doing stuff on my website and Facebook. So, yeah, it's adding up to what is that? Full time? Plus, plus, yeah,
Casey O'Roarty 4:31
definitely. Any of us, yep, well, I'm so excited about what we're going to talk about today. This is something that comes up so much in my work with parents, which is the experience of two different parents and two different parenting styles. And typically, one parent is excited about positive discipline, which is my world and what I offer positive parenting, and really committed to making it their practice, while the other parent, for whatever reason. Is kind of doing their own thing, either falls into that more rigid or reactive phase, or this is the way my parents do it, and it's fine. I don't need a class. I don't need a book. How does this show up? I know that you work a lot with couples, so how does the whole parenting style conversation come up in your work?
Kelly Bos 5:19
Yeah, it absolutely does show up, and I think it is one of the most passionate kinds of arguments you can have up there with sex and money, of course. But for me, when I'm listening to couples, I almost hear them talking more about identity than more than men, you know, actually talking about what are best practices for our life. It's things like this was good enough for me, and my parents did it, and my saint of a mother did this. So how could we even go against it? Or I don't want to look anything like my parents parenting style. So a lot of history, a lot of emotional charge to it, and it's yeah, it can be pretty powerful stuff in a relationship to work through Yeah,
Casey O'Roarty 6:04
and not really necessarily, what the com You know, I'm imagining two adults having a conversation, and typically the conversation doesn't include the fact you know that, well, I have some baggage, and yes, this is why I feel This way,
Kelly Bos 6:19
to be brilliant if it did, but that's so hidden sometimes even from the person. They just feel really strongly. They can't even necessarily put into words. Why? Yeah, but they feel very strongly about this sleeping practice or this way to teach about eating and it
Casey O'Roarty 6:37
goes on, or what to do when the kids make a mistake. Yeah,
Kelly Bos 6:41
that's a great one for sure. And I turned out okay, so I can do it this way, right?
Casey O'Roarty 6:45
So what do you think are some of the biggest roadblocks for couples, around having conversations, around parenting? What's going on? Well, you just mentioned some things that are going on below the surface. What else do you think gets in our way?
Kelly Bos 6:56
Definitely, communication issues, and that's fair. We're tired. We are dealing with expectations and expectations not met. We are struggling through it ourselves. We feel very vulnerable being parents, often because we want to do right by our kids, and sometimes hearing a different approach can feel challenging. So I think that's going on. And plus, I think, as a society, just across the board, people really struggle with living in the moment. So our reactions aren't always very present, right? They're historical, or they're worried about the future, and even we sometimes just struggle with knowing what's going on in ourselves. I mean, I had a horrible night's sleep last night, so everything should be under the lens of I'm very tired today, and that's an important information, not that everyone's the worst driver In the world, and my children never listen.
Casey O'Roarty 8:01
That's powerful, right? That present and making it just staying in the mindset of seeing the bigger picture, yeah, for
Kelly Bos 8:10
sure, what is this? Is what's going I'm tired, but you know, we can still have a great day in this moment. Everything's okay. I'm not falling asleep off my chair. I've maybe I'm worried about feeling that way, or I felt that way an hour ago, but I'm okay right now, and I can make good decisions right now and parent positively right now.
Casey O'Roarty 8:28
Well, I'm, like you mentioned, there's a plethora of conversations that can get really emotional when you're in a relationship with somebody, and I know that it is, you know, timing it. You know, there's a few conversations that are coming to mind right now that I would love to have, and it it never seems like the right time, or it's really difficult to find the right tone. Because, you know, when you're coming to somebody with something that they might not necessarily want to hear or explore, then their defenses go up so quick. Speaking from experience,
Kelly Bos 9:11
yeah, you think the defenses that just come out purely on the I don't mean to be offended, but Right,
Casey O'Roarty 9:16
right, right or so, how do we, how do we start to have those conversations? I mean, we love this person. They're the partner we've chosen, right? We love our kids, we love our life, and we just want to explore, you know, we want to talk about how, you know, I noticed that, you know, when you're critical of the Son, of our son, he doesn't really show up very well or however, you know, whatever it looks like in the situation that you happen to be in. What suggestions, how do you coach couples around having these difficult conversations, maybe not even around parenting, maybe around other things. How do you coach them to help them communicate in a way that doesn't. End up with, you know? Partner A, this is, you know, this is how I'm feeling. Partner B, well, you shouldn't feel like that. And I'm gonna go on the attack. This makes me uncomfortable, so I'm gonna attack you. And then, Partner A, like, wow, this wasn't what I meant for, you know. And then it just kind of spirals.
Kelly Bos 10:15
Well, I think looking at your own motivation and what you're trying to achieve in it is this a goal oriented comment or a shaming comment or a triggered comment from something that happened to you, once you have a good sense of what's really going on, right and then going from there? Okay, so my motivation is good, but the timing's off. So looking at that in the moment, if your partner is criticizing, there might be another way you could show your child support that doesn't kind of wreck a united front as parents. And so looking at the timing of it, having a time, maybe each week, to just address things that come up, even looking at like, let's, let's discuss our family and our goals and what we have as a vision for our family and how we can do things in the best way that fits with that. And why don't we meet on Wednesdays after the kids go to bed, and just jot down a few things that we think could work better, or things we're noticing and coming from where you're experiencing struggles, is often helpful as well, as opposed to just pointing things out, and so that can be a real collaborative approach in addressing these kind of differences.
Casey O'Roarty 11:30
I am so glad that you brought that up, because I knew about that. I forgot about that, but we do family meetings, and yeah, years ago, we were doing not regular, well, it was a short period of time, but we were doing like a couples meeting, like there was one night a week where, you know, and what's funny, what's coming up for me. And I'm wondering if listeners are having the same experience, but I know my and the dynamic in the relationship that I live in is that I'm super controlling and I'm kind of the boss lady, and my husband is really, really laid back, which is why we work, you know, it's why I thank God I did not marry myself. I married this guy who's really easygoing, and it goes with the flow. And you know, pretty much, you know, when it even when it comes to parenting, you know, I he appreciates the fact that I do what I do, and can come with some information. When it comes to some other conversations that we could be having, it gets stickier and slipperier, but I see what you're saying around having this structure that's already in place, right? You know, starting off with appreciation, yeah, starting off with appreciations and gratitudes for each other to set the tone, and then, you know, conversation, and it doesn't have to always be like, I'm thinking about when I first started family meetings with my family, and my daughter immediately was like, I'm out, and she was little, and my husband said, so are we gonna just get together every week and bitch about Rowan. And I realized, oh, yeah, I did not really set that up very well,
Kelly Bos 13:05
right point, yeah, I
Casey O'Roarty 13:09
imagine the same thing could be I imagine my husband having the same experience of like, Oh, are we going to get together? Have this chosen time once a week for you to bitch at me. So making it a safe place, right for both people,
Kelly Bos 13:22
for sure, and making a productive place. And as I said, I think collaborative place is just huge,
Casey O'Roarty 13:28
yeah, and I really like the idea of looking at goals so easy, to have conversations about these big dreams, and one day we will and this and that and like, Okay, and what are we doing every day to get toward, to move towards that, not, right? Yeah, sure.
Kelly Bos 13:43
And also keeps it positive too, right? You know, you're immersing your self and positive parenting, and you want to be a positive parent, but you have to keep that positivity in your relationship as well. Yeah,
Casey O'Roarty 13:54
yeah. And there, of course, there's a range with this, right? So there's couples who are just a little off and willing to sit down and talk and work it out. And then there are couples who are really on opposite ends of the spectrum with their styles, which is always kind of hurts my heart, because I think it's more difficult for the parents to live with that than it is actually the kids. Because kids, yeah, they're so resilient. And it can also be confusing to get different messages from different parents. When would you say that it starts to become a problem for kids when parents have different styles? I
Kelly Bos 14:29
think the biggest problem is when you aren't looking like you're on the same team. I don't think kids. I think kids struggle a lot with knowing what to do with that. And so despite your differences, finding a way to be a parenting team, and you might not want this, you might not decide to do different deliverables on it, but the goal is the same. You know, there might be different ways you present it, or different slightly different discipline strategies. Strategies, but at the end of the day, it's of the same idea or the same goal,
Casey O'Roarty 15:08
right? So in positive discipline. So what I talk about a lot with parents is that ultimately, I want my kids to learn skills, right? Yeah, I want them to develop skills, skills for navigating those situations that maybe the first time the situation showed up, they, you know, didn't handle it the best way that they could have. And so in the after the conversation and whatever, how they fix their mistake. In the end, I want them to have more skills, because those same situations show up again and again and again. So if both what I'm hearing you say is, you know, if both parents are on the same page around like, hey, regardless of how we handle things, if our goal in the end, is that our child is going to have more skills because of the situation, then you know, rather than, you know, the the flip side, which is, well, if we, you know, punish them or reward them enough they'll just choose the right thing. We actually want to build skills. Then having one parent who's slightly more firm and another parent who, like errs on the more kind side is, you know, the goal is still the same. Then kids, you know, we're all human beings and not ideal.
Kelly Bos 16:21
Along with that, with great modeling to show that you're working through something and that there's ways to work through it. You know, mom and dad don't agree completely on this, but we do agree on the value we want to get out of it, it for you, or the moral of the story.
Casey O'Roarty 16:39
Yeah, yes, exactly. And I recently had a guest who came on, and we really talked about and explored the different parenting styles. And we talked about how, you know, how, on some occasions, parents slip into opposing styles naturally, when one is being especially firm, the other one kind of is the go to, you know, good cop, bad cop. Yeah, good cop, bad cop, and and that happens. And it's not about, you know, beating ourselves up about that. It's not about perfection. We really just want to increase our awareness, notice when it's happening, like noticing when we are slipping into those roles, right? And then deciding, hmm, am I going to do something about this? Am I going to step back? Am I going to step forward? What's going to happen here?
Kelly Bos 17:25
Yeah, what are my goals in this? What am I trying to achieve by stating it this way or correcting this?
Casey O'Roarty 17:32
Yeah, so is a happy, healthy home possible when two parents have different styles? Absolutely? Yeah, I
Kelly Bos 17:40
think absolutely. And from, you know, many of the reasons we we said, but again, you love your kids. You want the best for your kids. You're very much on the same team there. So work from there, work from that great point.
Casey O'Roarty 17:53
Yeah. And if it's difficult to be having these conversations, listeners, with your partners, there are some really skilled human beings out in the world whose job it is is to hold space for couples to learn how to communicate with each other, right? Yeah, absolutely. Get
Kelly Bos 18:13
some help if you're having trouble,
Casey O'Roarty 18:15
yeah. Because I know, you know, some people just come in and kind of roll their eyes around, like, oh, you know, if my husband would just come to this class, everything would be great. You know, there's that, but then there's also people in crisis, and if you feel like it's really something that is showing up for you as painful and you're feeling resentful, you know, that could be a really good sign that it might be time to just, you know, have a conversation with somebody and and get some help, right? Get some help, sure, and that's
Kelly Bos 18:44
what I find with partners too. One partner might be one to take on all the books or talk to someone, and one partner might not be but, you know, use what works for you to learn and get strategies. So
Casey O'Roarty 18:54
what is a baby step Kelly, that listeners can take towards having a conversation about parenting style with their partner, and what advice would you give them about how to show up to that conversation?
Kelly Bos 19:15
Yeah, I kind of like this idea of meeting to talk about the big picture, you know, and what, what we want for our family and starting from that place, yeah, so maybe that would be a great step and not a here's all the things you're doing. Wrong step. Rather, what can we do to work together on
Casey O'Roarty 19:32
this? Yeah, and I know when we talk to families, about our parents, about starting family meetings, we spend the first couple weeks, we just encourage them to just give compliments to everyone, including themselves, and then plan something fun to do together that week. And maybe for couples, if this is a new practice and a new way of being together, and if there is some hurt in the relationship, then maybe just a few weeks of that. That before you get into maybe some goal setting, before you get into some problem solving, where you like I said, when I started to do this, what I noticed was that I the space that I held for my husband was not safe, right? And, yeah, I did that that was over time. Yeah, I created a space that wasn't necessarily safe for him to share what he thought or felt, even though I was like, okay, that's what we're gonna do now. So tell me all your deepest feelings, you know? And he was like, No, thanks. That's terrifying, yeah? So really remembering sometimes there's some repair and some mending to do before we can expect our partners to step in and be vulnerable and real and honest and share some of their stuff. I love that. I love that I feel a blog post in the making about couple meetings. Kelly,
Kelly Bos 20:58
yeah, definitely need to get to yeah
Casey O'Roarty 21:01
and they last. So I have a new last question that I like to Okay, ask people that I'm interviewing, and that is, what does joyful courage mean to you?
Kelly Bos 21:13
Courage? That's a great question. I think it is that that idea of being in the moment and having the courage to self regulate and to not give way to difficult or negative feelings, but joyfully approaching each moment knowing that everything's okay in this moment right now, I don't have to worry about it, the things often worry about a future past, so right in this moment, I can address it. And I think sometimes not giving emotions is quite courageous, for sure.
Casey O'Roarty 21:50
Definitely, I love that. Thank you,
Kelly Bos 21:52
my pleasure. Thanks for having me
Casey O'Roarty 21:54
on the show. Yeah, I'm so glad that you're willing to come back on. So remind our listeners real quick. Where can they find you in your work.
Kelly Bos 22:01
So love to see you at my website, www.kellyboss.com, that's 1s or you can find me on Facebook, and there it's Facebook, the backslash, Kelly Flanagan, boss therapy. So would love to see you at either I post different articles I've been reading and reading and finding inspiration from as well as stuff that I'm writing as
Casey O'Roarty 22:23
well awesome and listeners, I'll have both of those links in the show notes, so it'll be really easy for them to just click away and find you. Yay. Awesome. Thank you. All right. Well, I'm sure that it's sunny and beautiful and you can like, you're just kind of, you're laying on a towel right now on the beach, right?
Kelly Bos 22:39
Yes, yes. Have to order that peanut pot and be gone with my
Casey O'Roarty 22:43
day. Your children are frolicking in the ocean getting along. Let us see I just all right,
Kelly Bos 22:50
don't worry. I'm from school. Rents in a few minutes.
Casey O'Roarty 22:54
Well, it's great to talk to you, Kelly, and we'll talk to you next time.
Kelly Bos 22:57
Awesome. Yes. Thank you so much for having me on Yeah. Bye, bye
Casey O'Roarty 23:09
Kelly, boss. I love her. I love that she is rocking the island life. Sounds good to me. I don't know about you, so, yes, check the show notes. I've got a couple articles, actually, an article by Amy Miller McCready as well, around how to navigate different parenting styles in one family, and some steps to take for being in conversation with our partners around that topic. I think that's the trickiest part about it, right? Is how you know, how we approach our partners, how we share what we notice and what we feel like, is effective, right? It's so emotional because we care so deeply for our children and our partners. And, yeah, it's not easy. It's not easy. So I promised you at the beginning of the show that I would tell you about a new offer, and it is really exciting. It's something that I've been hired to be a part of, and I'm grateful that my skills were seen as an asset. So there is the program is called calm and connected parenting, and it's through an organization called Maslow. It's a two week program that teaches how to respond with empathy to your child, how to replace negative self talk, and how to use your body to create connection. So obviously I said yes, because it's totally in line with the way that I speak of and guide and facilitate parenting. So this program was designed to help parents of small children respond with empathy and calm through difficult situations, right? Because that's. When we need it. And parents become more aware of how they react when their kids are when they are noticing anger, show up how to respond calmly instead of emotionally. You will choose one empathetic statement to practice in real life situations each day, stay accountable to practicing every day and reflect on your experience and and you'll receive private coaching and guidance on how to improve your technique. And the coaching comes for me, who it's not live. It is exercises each day that you get via text or email, and then I respond to your responses via text or video, but that's personalized, like I'm speaking right to you. The thing I think is really powerful about this program is it's just a little bit each day, right? We're busy, and we got a lot of things going on, and it's bite size, right? It's daily bite sized pieces. It's small daily steps that begin to make a big difference in your life with your children. So I really want to encourage you to just check it out. The website is www, dot Maslow, M, a, z, l, O, dot, M, E. The program is called common connected parenting, and you know, it's designed by a woman named Melissa Benaroya, who is the co founder of grow parenting here in the Pacific Northwest, and she's a clinical social worker and parent coach, and I think I'm gonna have her on the podcast to talk more about this, but I wanted you to be aware and to check it out. Okay? I'm gonna put a link in the show notes so that you can see what it's all about. And maybe you know, think about whether or not it's something that you would like to to try out. I also, as usual, well, not as usual, but I still have a few spots available for private clients to work with me. Thank you to those of you that have engaged in exploratory calls. I love working one on one with parents. I love love love it, and I love the wisdom and the power that parents find within themselves in the coaching relationship to make big changes in their life. So you know, if you're thinking about that, if you're curious about that and you just want to have a phone call with me, please feel free to go to my website, www, dot joyful, courage.com. Click on coaching and I book a call. Let's check it out, see if we're a good fit. Thank you for listening. I so appreciate any time somebody says, Hey, I listened to your podcast. I'm working on not responding with really, but it's just amazing to me that I can put this out into the world and that people listen and find it helpful. So feedback is so great via iTunes reviews or write in the show notes, in the comments of the show notes, or emailing me Casey at joyful courage.com however you want to give me feedback, I will receive Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening. Have a beautiful day. Love on your kids. Love on your honey, and I'll talk to you next time
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