NO YELLING! with Andy Smithson

Transcription

Casey O'Roarty 0:00
Joy, joyful courage, parenting podcast episode 12.

What's up podcast, listeners, I am so happy that you've come back for another round of the joyful courage parenting Podcast. I'm really excited about today's guest Andy Smithson from true parenting. You might remember him from my very first podcast, because I'm sure you've listened to all of the podcasts, right? So Andy came on, we talked about emotional triggers, and now we get to talk about yelling. Who isn't a yeller? If you're gonna tell me that you don't ever yell at your kids, I'm gonna call you a liar. Well, I'm not really gonna call you a liar, because that would be super rude and presumptuous of me, but I am gonna say that even the best of us have moments where we find ourselves yelling at our Children, and then we feel pretty crappy about it. So I'm really excited because Andy has a new offer for his people, for all people, to play around with the idea of taking a no yelling challenge, 21 days no yelling challenge. And so I thought, hey, I'm gonna have Andy on the show so we can talk about this and get down to business around why we yell, what it's like for our kids, and maybe some steps, some tips to help us not be yellers. Because I know I'm not the only one out there. Funny thing happens during the podcast. The very end I get a visitor because school has not started, so there's some action at the end that entices my inner yeller, although I get to manage myself. Don't worry, I don't do any yelling actually, on the podcast. But I am excited. I'm excited for this show. Andy is a family therapist. He has a great website called True parenting.net he writes loads of blog posts about being a kinder, more connected, self regulated parent. He's super Zen, not just his voice, but actually his offers are available to help parents find their inner Zen, their inner center, their inner calm. I'm super excited that Andy has agreed to come on the show yet again. So without further ado, let's talk to him. You.

Yay. Welcome back to the show. Andy, I am so glad that you are here.

Andy Smithson 3:08
Thank you so much. It's good to be back.

Casey O'Roarty 3:11
It is good to have you back. And I was telling you earlier that I just listened to Episode one with you and me talking about emotional triggers, and I'm going to work really hard in this interview not to breathe heavy in my mic, because I noticed that in that first episode. So but today we're going to talk about yelling, and I am so excited that we're going to talk about yelling, because this always comes up for myself, my friends, the parents that I work with, we get to that point, and this is what I hear a lot of. Well, I ask them to do something nice once or twice and tell and nobody does anything, and then I have to yell, and then everybody seems to move. So how can I not yell? So what is the deal with yelling. Why do we do it? Why does it always have to come to that? What are you finding in your work with parents around yelling?

Andy Smithson 4:06
Well, you know, I think that it really is all about survival mode, you know? I think that there's a few different things that we we kind of jump into a few different categories. I think that it often falls under and maybe the it just happens the automatic, sort of just like you were just saying with the triggers, there's things that just pop up, and before you know it, we're we're yelling. I think the second is, I don't know what else to do. I think that comes up a lot of times. I think parenting throws a lot of new things at us. You know, every single stage, every new development, all of those sorts of things we're we're always searching for what's going to work today. You know, our kids are always changing. And then I think the last. Thing is, nothing else works. Like you just said, it seems like sometimes like nothing else works. If we don't raise our voice, then they're not going to respond. But I think a little bit later on, we'll, we'll talk a little bit more about that and why, I don't think that that is, is really the most effective way to to well, to even view it, to to understand that what we think is working is often not really working.

Casey O'Roarty 5:32
Yeah, that short term versus long term mentality perhaps

Andy Smithson 5:35
right? That parenting for the long game for sure. Yeah.

Casey O'Roarty 5:40
And what's the experience like? I mean, I often when I'm talking to parents, I try gently to invite them into their children's shoes. And what do you think the experience is that the kids are having, especially in that typical scenario where perhaps they're busy with something else, and they get asked to do something a few times, and then the grown up in their life is actually yelling at them. What do you think's happening for that child?

Andy Smithson 6:07
You know, there's a Facebook meme that has kind of been passed around of this, this mother standing over the top the the image is looking up at the parent, with mom wielding her pointer finger like a weapon, you know. And, and I think that it really is an awesome image for us to understand the perspective from a little one's, you know, point of view, to see that that feeling of powerlessness that that may come with that when we start to raise our voice, or when we stand over the top of them and start demanding and going into our rants and those sorts of things, that it can really be just overwhelming to a child. I think even when I was in in school for my social work degree, we actually in a class we had someone get up on a chair and practice this. We we said different things to each other. I know it sounds silly, but we actually had this experience of having someone stand over the top of us and talk down to us and, and there really is something biologically, physically that happens in us that kind of sparks that feeling of powerlessness and and when that happens, I think we tend to want to grab control. We want to and kids are the same way. I don't think that they're really that much different than how we feel when someone yells at us. They just maybe even have a feeling of even less power than than maybe we do at work, with a co worker or with a spouse or someone else that that raises their voice with us?

Casey O'Roarty 8:07
Yeah, I think that's really important, right? I mean, we I don't treat anyone the way that I treat my kids when I'm angry or full of emotion, you know? And I think that because they're small, we have this idea that, you know, sometimes dignity and respect go out the window. And I think it's easy to do that. Yeah, it's really easy to do that. And we actually have an activity called competent giant, which is exactly what you described. And it is very powerful to stand in the first to we have people get up on chairs and partners, one's on the chair, one's on the floor, and to have that experience of being of that top down approach. And I think, like you said, power and control. The difference between an adult and a work environment and a child in a home is that you'd hope that the adult in the work environment can tap into their lifetime of experience and practice and handle that in a way that looks relatively cooperative rather, you know, but then to expect a seven year old or a three year old, or even like a 16 year old, to have a pool of experiences and skills and tools to tap into, to handle that, that that power game with the adult appropriately. You know, it's either I'm going to I'm going to get big and meet you and with my own power, which can look like rebellion, defiance, right? Or I'm gonna submit and obey out of fear, right, which, you know, talking about the long game. I mean, our six, seven, our young kids. We want them to be able to stand in their power, especially as they move into adolescent and teen years. And it's, you know, they. Could run into experiences that require them to know what it feels like to stand in their power rather than to submit. I mean, I can think of a million Samaria scenarios where I'm really hopeful that my kids aren't just gonna do what someone tells them to do because they're telling them to do it, and might be holding a little bit more power.

Andy Smithson 10:18
Yeah. You know, we think about that, how how I feel when somebody's yelling at me, if you just think back about the last time you experienced something like that, and how you felt, and then multiply that by 10, because our kids just, they don't even have the brain structures, you know, developed yet enough to be able to regulate the emotions and the subsequent actions that come, you know, as a result. And so I think, just, you know, taking that our personal experience, I think, is the, the greatest, the greatest thing we have for, for really, truly empathizing and understanding what what it is they're going through.

Casey O'Roarty 11:03
Yeah, but you know, and I know that I've worked with parents who just don't really see it as being harmful, that yelling, you know that that's just kind of part of the gig. What do you think? What do you know about what happens for kids, you know, carrying on this conversation about their experience, like, Is it harmful? How is it harmful? What is it what shows up for kids when they're raised in a home where there's a lot of yelling?

Andy Smithson 11:30
Also, there's two things in regards to this, this question of whether it's harmful or not. First of all, I would 100% say yes, it is, and I've got a pile of research, individual case studies and personal anecdotes that that would say that indeed, it is harmful. But even if we were to just for a second entertain the idea that maybe it's not immediately harmful, maybe it's not going to ruin our child, even if we were to entertain that for a second, just think about, Wouldn't we like to do something different? Wouldn't it be better just to wouldn't parenting in our home life and everything just be more enjoyable for us and for our children if we decided that that wasn't just part of the gig, that we decided that we could do something else, and we we understood that there were other things that maybe were more more effective, that were, you know, much more helpful, both in the short run and in the long run.

Casey O'Roarty 12:45
Are you suggesting that parenting might be more fun if we weren't angry all the time? Andy,

Andy Smithson 12:50
I you know parenting is awesome when we're not so angry. Yeah. I mean, think about I just asked a question on Facebook the other day. I asked about what, what's one of the things that you just feel like if this one thing was different in my parenting, that everything would be much better. And then I asked a follow up question of, what's the one thing about parenting that inevitably makes you smile? And most often, I heard things like smiles, giggles, and, you know, the the kind of greeting that our our kids give us when we walk through the door, or those sorts of things. And just think about the moments that we have with our kids that are just so much fun. I mean, I used to big. Be a big thrill seeker. I love to snow ski and water ski and and do all these kind of more extreme sports. But I found that as I had kids, I would go up to the ski mountain, and I had just as much of a thrill watching my six year old son ski down the hill, as I did myself skiing down that hill.

And it's just an amazing thing to realize how fun parenting really can be when we're not in that in that state.

Casey O'Roarty 14:20
Yeah, well, and I'm what's coming up for me is humor, humor and lightness, right? Like recognizing when that because I feel like it's a body sensation that heavy. Here we are again. They don't want to pick up the flipping Legos that are all over the floor, right? And, like, I, you know, and that's just me for real, they hurt, and they just keep seeming to multiply at our house, um, but like, how that, how heavy that gets. And, like, at the it's like the dark cloud, you know, you. Begins to invade the space. And so when I think about like giggles and joys and lightness and playfulness, I mean, that's ultimately what little kids want anyway. What an invitation. What a different invitation that is. So, what do you think when you So, when you talk to parents about this, you know it's all good to know that, hey, lightness and playfulness and smiles and giggles is what we want. I think that it's interesting too. We often blame the child, right? Well, if they just cooperate, we'd have more lightness and giggles and smiles, right? What about Yeah, so speaking to that, well, I mean, I'm just wondering about tools. So what are the tools for parents to use, then to to be the ones the leaders that are holding that lightness in the space, even when our kids are being uncooperative? Okay?

Andy Smithson 16:00
So, so really quick, I want to go back to something that you said that that aspect of blame on the kids, just because recently, again, I like to go on Facebook and ask questions about what, what's going on for parents and what they need the most help with. And when I started putting together the stop yelling in 21 days coaching course, I asked the question, what do you feel like causes parents to yell most often? What is the most common thing? And there were actually, there were literally hundreds of people that responded to that question and the the top answers were not answers of blame, which I was kind of surprised, because I thought it would be things like they didn't listen, they're not complying with what I asked them to do, and those sorts of things. But parents are actually very, very insightful with the fact that the very top answer was just stress and overwhelm. It was just this massive feeling of of overwhelm in parents lives, and they recognized that it wasn't necessarily I just got done writing a post that's going to go up on another website the other day, and I talked about this aspect of of the straw that breaks the camel's back. You know, it's usually when the kids respond by not doing what we've asked or whatever. It's the last straw. It's the thing that that maybe pushes us over, but the underlying things of the stress and the overwhelm are really the the culprit in in causing that, that anger and the yelling to happen. And so I think that it's really important for us to honestly speak that out, to recognize it formally in our minds, and to someone else and say, I understand that it's not Joey's fault. You know, I understand that this is what's going on. And I need to figure out some tools. I need to figure out, I need to make some plans. I need to find some things to help me to to get rid of some of that stress and overwhelm, to manage it better, or to to increase our our threshold, or our, you know, our ability to tolerate that stress a little bit better. So I think that that's an important aspect initially, is just to understand that. I think a lot of parents do. I think we just don't, we don't take the time to sit with it and then make some plans from there.

Casey O'Roarty 19:00
So yesterday, I have an example of this. Yesterday was the Back to School Bash at the middle school, and my daughter's a seventh grader, and I knew on paper what we needed to do. There were some fees we needed to pay. She needed to get her picture taken for her ASB card, and then we were out, and then I had to go to the elementary school for back to school night. My son had a haircut, and I figured somewhere in there I could go grocery shopping so that I could make dinner later. And we got to the middle school, which it seemed like every family showed up at the same time. So we were in the gym, and the people I was talking with the lines for the pictures, people were waiting for up to an hour to get to the front of the line. And it was so fascinating how quickly I wanted to blame my daughter, like, gosh, you know, it's your school. Cool. I'm thinking in my mind like, this is your Back to School Bash, and now there's no time for dinner. There's no time, you know, and I was so I was grateful for my own awareness. It didn't necessarily change how I felt, but it kept me in check on how I behaved with her, because, like, everything in my body, I kind of wanted to be mean to her. I kind of wanted to just, this is your fault, that my whole afternoon, when ultimately, it's my fault, right? Because I didn't, you know the amount of things I had planned for a three hour window was it was not possible, and that's what was really showing up. So I'm really hearing you, as far as like, stress and overwhelm and too many things on the plate and expectations that are inappropriate for us, and then finding ourselves in the moment with our kids. And you know, the easiest thing to do is, you know, blame someone else, right, right, but grateful for my practice of noticing when I'm in blame mode and taking a good solid look at whether or not I need to be blaming somebody else for what was happening in that moment, so I was able to regulate and not be too terribly grumpy. But yeah, I think that I'm glad that you shared that about your your post and that coming up, because I think that's so big. And I was, I was just talking to somebody about this. I think as parents and I can speak into being a mom, right? So the mother job around you know, I'm the mom. I'm I have work from home, I fold the laundry, I buy the groceries, and I keep all of these things as separate tasks, individual from each other. And I had a coach recently point out to me, you know, when you take the time to fold the laundry, and you know just are in that moment, you're actually feeding the business woman inside of you, because then the business woman isn't doing her work, thinking about all the other activities that also need to happen through the day. So she really helped me to recognize that it's not necessarily that I have a bunch of things to do. It's that I'm compartmentalizing these roles that really in the action of fulfilling those roles I'm supporting all the others, right? And so that was helpful for me. It still doesn't make it that exciting to fold laundry, but it feels less like, oh, there's a million other things I should be doing right now. No, right now I I'm gonna feel great when this basket of laundry is folded, and I'm gonna feel that much better when I sit down and write my blog post, because I'm gonna know that that stuff is done, right. So, what are some other what are some other tools that you talk about is, if we're gonna talk about stress and overwhelm, right? Okay,

Andy Smithson 22:55
so, so, you know, I think first of all, one thing that is really important is just to learn to say no, you know, and I know that that is that seems really generic, but you know, it's to really learn what boundaries are, and to to be able to express those boundaries to other people and and to just not take too much on, and that's not, I guess, as much of a as much of a technique or a tool as as it is just a mindset. And I do think there's a great book I love the book boundaries, by Dr Henry Cloud. He does a great job of teaching people what healthy boundaries really look like. And last time I was on the podcast, I talked a little bit about the quick, calm technique, and this is one that that I've found in my personal counseling practice to be one of the most effective things that people can do to lower their to literally cut their stress or their overwhelm in half, just in a few minutes. And it's just utilizing a few simple little body techniques, kind of in an order. And I'll just for the sake of time, if if if you want to just link up in the show notes to that, and people can get the the the full technique of the quick, calm technique. I think that my wife and I actually just had a really awesome experience with it too, teaching it to my kids. And we did it, and we have a weekly family night, and we did it in our family night. And I did it just by I stood up in front of my kids, and I had them stand up, and I just said, Okay, we're gonna have a little competition. And I said, Okay, I'm gonna breathe in as big as I can, and then we're gonna breathe. Out for as long as we can and see if anybody can beat dad for how long they can breathe out. And we just took three or five breaths like that. And then I moved on. I said, Okay, now we're going to tighten up all of our muscles and make them as tight as we can. And I've got, I've got a nine a, seven, a five and a three year old, and then a little baby. And so they were all, you know, they were loving this little exercise that we did, and then we would relax, and then we and so they didn't really know what we were doing. I wasn't teaching them a technique. We were just kind of playing a game with these different things that we can do and and then I followed up with I told a little joke and and told them to smile, and we all smiled, and we had a great little laugh together. And then I just asked them how they felt, and they all talked about it feels, you know, I feel really good, and I like being happy and laughing and and just kind of were able to communicate some of those things, of how their their mood improved, and things like that. And, and then I said, Okay, we're gonna, we're gonna practice this this next week, whenever your brother starts taking you off or, or, you know, my, my youngest of these three boys in the middle, he, he has quite a temper on him. And when his brothers take things from him and things like that, it can get pretty out of hand. And so we just said we're just going to have this, this buzzword. It's just going to be quick calm. We're just going to say quick calm whenever it's getting out of hand, and we immediately stop and do these three things. And I it has been amazing. The boys have just done an incredible job with it, with implementing those things. And it's incredible how, if you can get them to just utilize that, that couple minutes, or, you know, just a few moments, really, how much more reasoning there is that happens. And not only that, but when you teach your kids, then you expect yourself to do it as well, and it gives you that moment to think before you just lash out as well. So So that's been a really effective tool for the parents that I've worked with and for me and my wife.

Casey O'Roarty 27:37
Mm, hmm, I love that. Right self regulation is learned skill, and you're giving your kids the opportunity to practice from a very young age. I think that's so great. I think that's so great. And when I teach positive discipline, you know some of well, and actually what's coming to mind is Dan Siegel's work and his whole brain child, and how we help our kids and teach our kids how to move from that really emotional state into the more logical brain, and coupling that physical, you know, breath in, breath out, changing the expression like that's really the work that they need to do to come from that crazy emotion, whether it's, you know, a sadness, embarrassment, mad, whatever, that overwhelm. There's a great visual and dance book of a little girl sitting with an angry expression on her face, and there's a big wave behind her, and it kind of is a great capture of, you know, the wave of emotion that hits our kids, and when they're young, it's big, right? It's big, and it can pull them out to sea, and so giving them that tool is so powerful and and for us too. And I love to tell my kids, you know, this is what I'm practicing. And will you remind me when I'm not practicing, which also requires me in that moment when they're like, Wow, mom, your your lids flipped, or, you know, they're calling me out, I have to also be graceful in that moment and say, Thank you. I'm going to, you know, do what I need to do, to calm down rather than like Don't tell me that, you know. And so in positive discipline, we talk about one of the pillars is kindness and firmness at the same time, connection and firmness at the same time. And what I noticed for myself and for others is that that's really hard to live. I don't think that we have, as a generation of parents, had great models for that. And I'll say to parents, you know, firm, firm isn't the same as mean, and sometimes when we think about firmness, it is that finger pointing and the stern like I'm furrowing. My eyebrows right now, and it's the low, firm voice. And so we're kind of at a loss as to how to be firm, how to hold boundaries while also staying connected, especially when our kids are continuing to challenge us through, you know, what we perceive as them ignoring us or like, the passive aggressive, really slow movement, or, you know, however it shows up in the home, you know, standing in that firmness while also staying connected and kind. What are your thoughts around that? What are your tips?

Andy Smithson 30:38
Yeah, absolutely, you know, I one of the things, I definitely believe that kindness and firmness are not mutually exclusive. And you know, this has been a little bit more of my personal struggle, because I feel like I actually did a lot of my really hard work with yelling a little bit earlier in my life, because I was a huge yeller when I was younger, and had some really big struggles with my own mother because of my yelling and the kinds of fights we would get in. And so I at a younger age, I really got in and did some of the hard work on that. And so I'm really not much of a yeller anymore

with my own kids, but I do get a tone with my kids, and that's the thing that that often my wife will bring to my attention, say, Honey, you're you're getting that that tone, you know, and and there is, I can also kind of fall into a sarcastic air at times, and I think that that's More of the what I struggle with in this area, but I think that there's a really great book called Super better. I don't know if you've heard of Jane McGonigal.

Casey O'Roarty 32:14
Is that the same as Professor McGonagall? No, that's different. Sorry, sorry, sorry, but

Andy Smithson 32:20
yeah, she she's written this excellent book about about gaming actually, but it's about using gaming in our, our our lives to help us improve and things like that. And it's not just, not just video games, but board games and creating games in life. And she talks about having this gameful sort of mentality, and about when we when we go into playing a game, we we expect challenges. We wouldn't play the game if there wasn't a challenge. It's boring if there aren't challenges and and roadblocks and those sorts of things, but we can take on a sort of gainful mindset of of noticing the challenges in our life and then creating these so that it is it's more of a challenge, rather than it is, you know, what's the word I'm looking for? You know, it's not a problem as much as it is just a challenge to overcome. There's in games, there's power ups, and there's the other things that you use in order to get there and identifying what some of those power ups are for you, and in those sorts of things. And she she gave this really, this really cool thing about some of the research on dopamine production in the brain and happiness, and it was she talked about one of the most powerful things they've found to actually increase the dopamine production in our brain, which is like our happy chemical in our brain, is to have goals and then to anticipate success. And it actually changes our brain chemistry to have goals and anticipate success. And so one of the things that I've incorporated in my day that's really helped with keeping my focus and not falling into that sarcasm or that rough tone of voice or being more mean and staying kind is, is to identify, every morning, I identify three things that would make that day great, and and I write those things down in a journal or notebook, and I carry with I carry. It with me everywhere I go now, and I review it regularly throughout the day. And sometimes those, those little things that would make my day great are just something as simple as I want to go jump on the tramp with my boys today. Sometimes it's a it's an actual business goal or or something like that, but, but a lot of times, one day last week, it was on a Saturday, I had had some really tough days at the office. Had my week had just been really overwhelming. And over all three lines that I had I put play with family, and that would make my day great, and and then I went about. I knew that I could be successful at that goal. And so both the anticipatory part of it and fulfilling that thing that we've written down actually changes our brain chemistry and helps us to be more successful in reaching goals in the future and being more mindful in dropping, you know, and having that kindness even when things aren't going the way we would like them to.

Casey O'Roarty 36:20
And that goal setting would be things that you have control over, right? Like everybody listening to me the first time would make my day great, however, right? That requires me to put all my trust and faith in someone else. So it's something that we have control over. Yeah, perfect, yeah. Oh, that's great. Do you have a little, like, pocket I picture you with your little pocket notebook. It's small, fits in the pocket. Yeah,

Andy Smithson 36:46
yeah. I actually, I carry a, like, a little briefcase with my computer almost everywhere I go with me. And so I have my notebook is, is probably about a, I don't know, it's like a seven by five or so, and it just has, has places for I identify things that I'm grateful for in the morning, and then these three things that, if I do these things today, it will be a great day, great that evening, I go back and review them and identify the great things that happened that day and and those sorts of things. So so it's really been amazing for productivity. It's also been really great just for feeling really a lot of achievement, feeling a lot of satisfaction with my days at the end of the day, as well as really at the beginning of the day. You have that anticipation for for those little things. And it's really been an awesome practice that I've started to

Casey O'Roarty 37:54
do. Andy, I am gonna, I'm gonna do that practice. I'm excited. Yes, thank you for inspiring that for sure. Tell us about your E course, because we're coming to the end of our time, and you've got an E course offer that's really exciting.

Andy Smithson 38:08
Tell us. Okay, so the the E course is called the stop yelling in 21 days coaching course. And it it kind of grew out of I had a blog post in with the same title that was, it has three basic steps, and it goes week by week through these three steps of of how I've interacted with parents in my counseling practice and In my coaching that has been really effective in helping them to finally kick this habit of yelling, and not just that, but it has dramatically decreased stress and anxiety and in the overwhelm that parents experience, and so it's kind of broken into the first week we focus solely on on practicing and on these tools, and just gaining knowledge of some tools and practicing those tools so that we can better Understand how to use them. Throughout the 21 days, and then we move into the three week challenge of first identifying triggers and then moving into applying some of the alternative types of behaviors and finding some solutions to some of the parenting issues that we deal with, disciplinary issues and things like that, and then finally, celebrating the the improvements that happen and recognizing those on a regular basis. And it's broken down into some video courses. US. So each week there's a video that teaches the instruction for the week, and then there's also a secret Facebook group that everyone will will join in and ask questions, give their inspiration and their successes throughout the weeks, and all of those sorts of things. We also are going to have a weekly Q and A session with myself and with all the the parents enrolled in the course, where you can ask questions and get answers in real time. And we're going to use Periscope for that, which is kind of just a new fun app, and you can do it straight from your your phone or tablet. And that's, that's kind of a new, a new thing coming around these days. And so it's, it's just kind of a fun, fun way to connect with each other in real time and be able to answer those questions when they come up.

Casey O'Roarty 41:01
That is so exciting, and I have so much faith in you and in this program. Andy, I'm thrilled to be an affiliate, to be supporting your work. So listeners just know that there is a link in the show notes if you want to find out about the 21 day. Course, oh my gosh. Can you hear all the action going on on my end of things, because my kids, my kids have not started school yet, and it's making me crazy. Okay, the work from home. Mom needs the school bus to come back to the neighborhood. So, yeah, sorry about the background noise. Um, yeah. So you'll find that link in the show notes. I promise I won't yell at my kids after we're done recording this podcast. Okay, I'll find my center. I'll use my toolkit. But Andy, thank you so much again for coming back on the show. I just in conversation with you. I feel peaceful just being in conversation with you and knowing that you're on the other end of the line and your all of your offers are so helpful for parents, and I just truly appreciate all that you bring to the world. So listeners, if you want to find more from Andy, he's got the true parenting Facebook page, and true is spelled t, r, u, because it stands for what is Stanford. Teach, teach relationship and upgrade yourself and upgrade yourself. I love the concept of upgrading yourself, because guess what? Everyone our kids show up as our teachers, and they shine the light on all the areas that we have to continue to grow. So thank you children, right? And you're on Twitter at the Andy Smithson, correct, correct. Where else are you? Are you anywhere else

Andy Smithson 42:51
right now? We'll, we'll be get started with at true parenting on Periscope pretty soon, with the course, okay, if people want to come over there and follow me on on Periscope, we can get started with some fun periscopes here in the near future.

Casey O'Roarty 43:12
Are they called periscopes? Are they called scopes? Scopes?

Andy Smithson 43:15
Maybe it scopes. I could do it with the lingo. I might

Casey O'Roarty 43:17
be too old. I might be too old for Periscope. I'm trying, I'm trying to get with it. I'm on Instagram now, and that's exciting, but oh my gosh, okay, well, thank you Andy and thank you listeners for listening in be sure to send in your comments at the bottom of the post if you're listening through a website, or feel free to rate and review on iTunes. Every time you chime in about the value that you're getting from the podcast, more people become more aware of my work. So yay. Thank you for everyone who has written a review and been willing to rate the show. I'm having a great time here, and check the show notes for all the great books that Andy mentioned and his true his 21 day no yelling. Coaching challenge. I know I just butchered that. I'm sorry I had it written down somewhere.

Andy Smithson 44:18
Stop yelling in 21 days coaching course. Stop yelling

Casey O'Roarty 44:22
in 21 days coaching course. All right, thank you. Thank you Andy, and I'll talk to you soon. Thank you listeners. Hey, everybody, don't forget that there are loads of offers for parents on the joyful courage website, that's joyful courage.com if you go under live offers, you will see where I am, locally, coming up speaking, and you can also take a look at the online offers. I've got E courses that are free. I've got equal. Courses that support developing family meetings in your home. I've got E courses that cover the emotional regulation needed to parent. I've got a great e course called the Center parenting e course that highlights a bunch of different positive discipline tools as well as a practice of mindfulness in the parenting practice and all of those e courses come with an upgraded coaching offer as well. If you want to get some one on one, work going on with me, I would love to work with you. So get online and check out those offers. There's also many other podcast episodes if you haven't listened in, they're all really valuable. I have great guests. I write a blog. There's a truckload of stuff over there for you, so go check it out. Peruse, get to know me and my work. Also, there is a Facebook community called live and love with joyful courage. And there are great discussions happening over there. So much love and support for each other on our collective journey of raising kids. Check it out. And as I mentioned, you can find joyful courage on Instagram, Facebook, Pinterest, although, full disclosure, I'm not really active on Pinterest, but I got a couple things on there. I'm also passively on Twitter, but Facebook is really the place that I hang out. So find me, find me, find me. Friend me, and let's, um, Let's support each other. All right. Big, humongous love to you. Have a great week until next time