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Casey O'Roarty 0:00
Joyful courage, parenting podcast, ask Casey. Episode Three today, we're talking all about backdock.

Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of Ask Casey, where you send in your questions, and I tell you what I think. So this time on Ask Casey, we're going to talk about back talk, which is really cool because it showed up a lot in the live in love with joyful courage. Facebook group, we had a couple people chiming in. One of our moms said, I'd love some advice on backtalk, pouting, crossing of the arms when he doesn't get what he wants, sort of behaviors. What do you do? He's almost seven. Seems to be worse with my husband, who's a little bit more stern with him. Another parent said, Is this a seven year old thing I currently it's currently happening at our house. All of a sudden, handling disappointment is a big deal. And finally, the listener who actually sent in the request, this is what she wrote, Hey lady, as I said in my post, Shane, who is my teacher, is really volatile right now, and so much of what she's saying is full of what, of disrespect and Sass, oh, and often high volume. It's driving me nuts. I suspect it's because summer is upon us, and she's worried about the transition, having to say goodbye to her teacher, etc. She's so sensitive. It's freaking her out. If I say, please sit down and finish your breakfast, she gets up several times during meal times, mostly to cartwheel. She'll yell, Mom, stop telling me that I was going to or she started to respond, I don't care, or I don't have to. My husband and I have been really working on our tone with each other and the kids. So I feel like we're really modeling ways to disagree, ask questions, etc, without being disrespectful. And we've been working on our connection with her. Each of us committed to ensuring that she is feeling that sense of belonging and significance. So I am stumped now as to where to go with this. Often she's outright saying no, or is moaning and groaning about every situation, even when choice and inviting language is used. I did just take the is your child sensitive quiz that was posted on the Facebook page, and she scores off the charts. Thoughts this child is teaching the hell out of me. Karissa, thank you so much for writing in with this request, and I hope that you saw on the page that you are not the only person who is dealing with this kind of behavior, you will also see something that I'm going to put a link to in the show notes, and I'm going to repost on the in the Facebook group, a video that I made a while back around back talk, because back talk is a thing. Back talk is something that every single parent is challenged with at one time or another. It flares up, it dies down, but it's, it's a part of this whole parenting thing, especially as our kids get older and they start to use their voice. Now, I do want to make a special I want to kind of draw some special attention, because, you know, today is Tuesday, June 7, and if you were anywhere near social media, you probably heard the story about the Stanford swimmer who was convicted of sexual assault against another student and given six whole months in prison. Well, we can argue about how that was handled and if the punishment fits the crime, but really what I want to bring into focus is how important it is for our kids to use their voice and for us to recognize that when our kids use their voice while it feels inconvenient to us in the moment when they're seven year old girls, it is absolutely we want something. We want them to have lots of practice with when they are 17 year old girls, or 20 year old girls, or 25 year old girls and out in the world and handling situations that require a very clear and direct voice also, also, it is so important for our boys to be using their voice, to be recognizing body language, to be seeing and communicating in all different ways. So. That meaning is made extremely clear. And again, that clear meaning that shows up as backtalk when they're young is going to come in incredibly handy as they get older, and need to be really clear and direct with the people in their life. So I want to just recognize backtalk and SAS as a potentially really important tool for them when they are moving into teenager young adult, having a voice and having space to use their voice is absolutely so important. I also saw a really amazing article put out by the good man project that I will post in the show notes as well that talks about consent and how to teach our kids what consent looks and sounds like from a really young age. Okay, that was a total tangent side note. So let's talk about this backtalk stuff. Okay, the problem with backtalk is that it hooks us emotionally like nobody's business, right? Everything's fine. We're keeping our cool, and we get Little Miss Sassy pants saying, No, I don't have to do that. Or, No, I don't want to. Or, no, you can't make me, or the passive aggressive ignoring that stuff shows up and and something happens. It's a very quick flip that gets switched right for us, and all of a sudden the story becomes, you are disrespecting me, and I don't like it, and what we typically do. And Chris, I love what you shared about all the other things that you and your husband are doing to stay connected and to making sure that Shane is feeling a sense of belonging and significance and the modeling all of that is so good.

All of that is so good, and it becomes increasingly important in the moment that we not be super attached to our kids response. So what showed up in a couple of the other shares on the page was the backtalk and the and the discomfort that our kids are displaying around not getting what they want and handling disappointment. So handling disappointment is a learned skill, right? It's learned over time, through experience. Our seven year olds are not great at handling disappointment, nor our 10 year olds or even our 17 year olds and our kids, you know individually, are going to vary in their ability to handle disrespect or to handle disappointment. And please remember one of my favorite mantras, our kids are doing the best they can with the skills they have. So Carissa, when I think about your daughter, Shane, and when you share about breakfast, are you asking her to do something and her responding with, I am or I will. I'm wondering if that wouldn't be a great place to be a little bit more proactive with the language that you use, and ask some curiosity questions. So you know, she gets up from the table to do a cartwheel, and you say something like, Hey, Shane, we got to be out the door in five minutes. What do you need to be ready? Or, Hey, Shane, I'm noticing that you really like cartwheels. I'm hoping that after breakfast we can go out back and you can show me your best cartwheel, right? So that was two different tools. One was curiosity, questions. What do you need? How might you what and how? Questions. And the other one was a connect before Correct. I'm noticing that you're loving to do cartwheels, or I'm noticing that you're having a really fun time on that video game, or I'm noticing that, you know, highlighting whatever it is that they're engaged in doing, and then asking a question, correcting or redirecting into what you want them to be doing. Okay? But here's the thing, we can't we can, but it becomes ever more helpful not to back, talk back so catching ourselves when we become triggered by the sassy pants, right when we become triggered by the eye rolling, and taking a deep breath and letting it go. Okay, letting it go. I know it feels like they're being disrespectful. I know that it feels really counterintuitive to not say anything, but try to practice letting it go. If it's too difficult for you, you could say something like, Wow, gosh. That really hurt my feelings. I'm wondering if you're feeling like your feelings are hurt, getting curious about that. Because typically, if something feels like a punch to the gut, if something feels hurtful, chances are the person that's delivering that hurt to you is also hurting. So getting curious about your child's experience as well. Hmm, I say to my daughter that felt really bad. I'm wondering if you're feeling bad, can you tell me a little bit about that? Or it might sound like, Wow. Can we do a redo, because that didn't sound so great, and we try that again? Or can you say that to me in a different way that isn't so hurtful, keeping it as light as possible and remembering that our kids need practice with being cooperative, contributing members of the family. They need redos. They need to have the space for you to say, Oh, wow, that wasn't really the best way to handle that situation. Let's try it again. So Carissa and those of you that have written in about this back talk stuff, what do you think about that? I know that with my son, who is and, you know, and my daughter too, I mean, she definitely isn't a big fan of disappointment, although she handles it a lot better. Back talk feels different coming from her than it does from my son. And what I have learned to do with my daughter is really practice being non attached, right? I'm non attached. And while something doesn't feel like a big deal to me, you know, or a big disappointment to me, or I feel like she should just get over it or shake it off. It may be a really big deal to her, and I need to honor that and recognize that her 13 year old worldview and agenda is really different than maybe whatever it is that I'm trying to move her along, to do what she values and prioritizes is not always the same for me, and I can't be offended by that, because she's a whole separate human being. And when I notice that I am offended by that, I get really curious what's what's bothering me here? The other thing as well is I was raised to where backtalk was met with a sharp look and an attitude of, you will not back talk you. I mean, they're really God. There just wasn't space for it. And while I didn't do a lot of back talking, it wasn't because, oh, I have so much respect for my parents, and I'm just a really nice kid. It was more out of fear. And so when I catch myself thinking, oh, man, I never would have done that when I was a kid, I also remind myself that there was a reason that I wouldn't have done it, and that reason is not a reason that I want my kids to lean on, to not express the emotion that's happening for them. The other thing to do when you notice that this is clearly a pattern, and from what I'm hearing, in your in your in your request, Carissa, and also, in some of the other things that people have posted is it is starting to become a pattern. It's something that you're seeing on a regular basis. So I bet you know what I'm gonna say. But when you're having good one on one time with her, when you're out driving in the car or on a walk, ask her what's up. Let her know. So I noticed, you know, this morning when we were at the table and you were doing cartwheels and I asked you to come back to the table, you got really mad. You got really upset, kind of snarky.

Can you tell me about that? Right? Tell me about that. What happens in my experience is that often we don't really realize how often we are correcting our kids and and when they feel like they're being corrected all the time, it can start to become really discouraging. So there's also that opportunity to get ever more clear around what her experience is, because you're having your experience, she's having a parallel experience, and until you know exactly what's happening for her, there really isn't it's really kind of muddy and foggy as far as figuring out what's going to be the most helpful. So have a conversation with Shane Karissa, and just be really curious and really empathetic and really work on being non judgmental, because when we open up these conversations with our kids, oftentimes they might say things like, yeah, you're really bossy, or you're always trying to tell me what to do, and I don't like. It, or you're mean, right? And this is not our chance to talk them out of that or get defensive, because that's not going to forward us. Instead, listen deeply, okay? Because this is the experience. This is the way that your children are experiencing you. This is valuable information. So if you don't know what to say after they tell you about their experience, just say, Hmm, is there anything else you want to tell me? And then from there, the conversation becomes so what would be more helpful? Because I'm just trying to get us to school on time. So what could I say instead? What would you rather I say? What would be better for you? Or, you know, like some of the other people that we're sharing about when their children are disappointed and they fall apart, you know, having that conversation, I notice when you you know, when the I have to answer No, when the answer is no, you have a really hard time with that. Tell me about that. They'll tell you all about it, right? And you just get to say yes, sometimes the answer is going to be no. So, hmm, what would be more helpful? What would help you next time, handle that in a way that isn't hurtful. Now you can't expect your seven year olds or your eight year olds or your nine year olds, your 17 year olds, not to get disappointed when things don't go their way. I mean, don't you get disappointed when things don't go your way? I do, and sometimes I get into a little bit of mischief when I'm disappointed. So remembering that kids are humans with emotions as well. So the goal isn't like happy go lucky kids that never get disappointed and never act on their disappointed feelings. The goal is how to help our kids build skills so that they can navigate disappointment in a way that isn't hurtful to the people around them, or to themselves or to their environment. So I've talked about the anger wheel on the podcast before, perhaps some kind of list of ideas for when you're feeling full of emotion. What helps you feel better? And I was recently working with a client around this and we talked about a soothing basket. So I have a little PDF that I can add to the show notes as well to help you work with your kids around a soothing basket. What are some things that help you feel better when you're feeling bad, maybe the soothing basket, these are great for really young kids and for seven year olds too, but it might have like a comfy blanket or their favorite book or a favorite stuffed animal, or a little Squeezy ball, something, you know, some sensory things Just to help them calm down and re engage their prefrontal cortex so that they can see, yes, I'm disappointed, and yes, I'm going to get over it, and yes, I can find something else to do. Because what happens? I don't know if it's the savage sevens or what, but you know, it is difficult to lose at games. It is difficult to hear no when you want to hear yes. And sometimes we can get stuck in feeling like we're never going to feel better. So a soothing basket, or, you know, a routine chart that had a list of different things that kids could do your kids could do to help them feel better is going to become a tool for them. And the cool thing is, you get to say something like, wow. You know, I'm noticing that you're really disappointed. I can tell by the words that you're using that you're really disappointed. Right now, I'm wondering if you would like to go check out your soothing basket or go practice one of your tools that you mentioned that helps you feel better, but I have faith that you can feel better, because you know you have a lot of tools for that. So again, it requires an attachment and non judgment let them feel their feelings and hold space for them to muddle through and be uncomfortable and know and trust that they can get to the other side, especially after having a really good conversation with them and perhaps playing with some tools to help them feel better when they need them. Okay, so Carissa and all you other moms out there that are dealing with the backtalk and the SaaS know that you will get to the other side of this and your kids want to feel good and be connected with you. It's ultimately what we as human beings are hardwired for, is connection. So keep up the good work with the special time and the modeling and. Know that she is learning and practicing her skills as well, and keep seeing her as your teacher. Love it. All right, my friends. Well, that was it for Ask Casey today. I hope that was helpful to you. I hope you got some nuggets out of there. If you are sitting there thinking, well, I've got an idea. I've got something that's been bugging me that I'd like some help on. Please go to the website, joyful, courage, calm and underneath the podcast link in the navigation bar, you will see ask KC, and there's a little form to fill out. It's pretty mellow and and your question might get picked for the show. So right now, I'm doing ask Casey's once a month. So this is our Ask Casey for June, and yeah, and yours could be the Ask Casey for July. So big, huge love to all of you subscribers out there. I so appreciate that you tune in, that you listen and that you interact on the Facebook group. If you're wondering, like, what's up with this Facebook group, go to Facebook and search for live and love with joyful courage. And that's my discussion page where people from our community are supporting and celebrating each other. I share podcasts and live streams and articles that have been written by me and written by others. It's just a really great place for communities, a community of like minded parents, and I'd love to have you join us there. Oh, hey. But I have one more thing so all of you that are listening are subscribers. Woohoo. Feel good about that. I have a call to action. Will you find two people in your world who you can help? Subscribe to the podcast this month that would be so fabulous. I would love you for ever. Be a super fan. Find subscribers. Thanks, friends. Big, humongous. Love to you all. Have a glorious week, a glorious day. Talk soon