Eps 317: Teen Relationships with Christy Keating

I’m at a place in my own parenting where I think parenting is one of the most courageous acts that we do as humans. It’s natural and biological and all that, but it’s also really freaking hard. It takes an incredible amount of courage to do it. That messaging that it’s hard is pretty common in our culture, but what’s not common is that we can do it courageously and joyfully. I think doing the courageous things we need to do, having these hard conversations, and doing it with joy is the perfect act of defiance against the cultural messaging we get.

 

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Transcription

Christy Keating 0:04
I think one of the most defining ways we can help our kids think about a healthy relationship is a relationship that helps them feel good about themselves. It helps them feel confident, it helps them feel hopeful, it helps them feel caring and it it is a like a value add to all the different parts of their lives.

Casey O'Roarty 0:29
Hey, my friends. Welcome back to joyful courage, a conscious parenting podcast where we tease apart the challenges and nuances of parenting through adolescent years. I'm your host. Casey o'rourdy, positive discipline trainer and adolescent lead at sproutable, a company that represents not only the growth of children, but also the journey and evolution that we all get to go through as parents. I'm walking the path right next to you as I navigate the teen parenting years with my own two kids here in the beautiful Pacific Northwest, joyful courage is all about grit, growth on the parenting journey, relationships that provide a sense of connection and meaning and influential tools that support everyone in being their best selves. Thank you for being here. We are over 1 million downloads and 300 plus episodes strong, and you have taken us to the top 1% of podcasts worldwide. I so appreciate you. I want to give all you listeners a heads up. Today is an interview, but starting next week, I'm going to do a series of solo shows all focused on alternatives to punishment. Yes. For six weeks, we're going to deep dive into the mindset shifts and practical tools needed to move away from leaning on punishments and consequences and focusing on where we can strengthen our influence, resulting in more powerful skill building for our teens and more authentic connections with them as well. You don't have to do anything but tune in each week and come along for the ride. I'm super excited and confident that this limited series will be useful for you, and today you enjoy the interview.

Hey everybody, welcome back to the podcast. I'm so excited to introduce you to the guest today. Some of you will remember her from the teens and screens mini summit that I did back in 2020 Christy Keating is the owner of the heartful parent collective, which includes savvy parents, Safe Kids, the heartful parent and the heartful Parent Academy. As a licensed attorney, Christy spent nearly 20 years as a felony prosecutor in the King County prosecutor's office in Seattle, where she spent the latter part of her career, specializing in the prosecution of sexually violent predators, immersed in the world of sexual assault and child sex abuse, Christy developed a deep understanding and expertise in the predatory tactics and abuse assault prevention strategies. She now enjoys educating parents, caregivers, educators and other professionals so as to help stop these problems before they happen, rather than addressing them after the fact. In addition to being a licensed attorney, Christy is a certified parent coach, a certified positive discipline instructor, a certified Gottman educator, and has completed the professionals intensive through Hand in Hand parenting. She's also a long time leader and speaker at at the program for early parent support in Seattle, and a public speaker and group facilitator with more than 20 years of experience, Christy is energized by helping parents find more love, joy and connection in their families and with their children, by helping them discover newfound energy in their parenting, develop an appreciation for what they have and who they are, and create sustainable ways to achieve their vision or dream for their family. Christy lives in the greater Seattle area with her husband of almost 15 years. They're two amazing daughters and a small bevy of animals. Hi Christy, welcome back.

Christy Keating 4:08
Hey Casey, great to see you.

Casey O'Roarty 4:10
I know it's good to see you too, yes. So today we're going to talk about relationship and young love.

Christy Keating 4:18
Oh yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 4:21
our ring is in the air. And when we talked, what did you tell me? What is March, the month

Christy Keating 4:25
of so actually, February is the month of teen dating violence, and then April is, you know, so we're like, right in the middle, right? April is sexual assault prevention month. So

Casey O'Roarty 4:41
there you go. Yeah, perfect time. Yep, perfect time to be talking about relationships and young love. Spring is in the air, or it will be soon as we record, it is 20 degrees outside and not spring. Although it's sunny, that's nice. Covid restrictions seem to be lessening. We'll see what. There, not that it totally kept our teens from crushing on each other and enjoying each other. So I want to talk first. You know, I've heard a lot. There's been some things that have come up in my community and in my own life and in my like, personal community around, like, first relationships and dating and, you know, all the things. So I'm really excited about this conversation and but so the way that my kids say it is, you know, they're talking to me, Well, they're Snapchatting each other. They're starting to feel some interest. They establish that they're like, quote, talking like, that's a thing, right? And then finally, the big deal is when that determined talking couple is now dating. So what are you hearing about the latest terminology and like the unfolding? Yeah, I mean, I I think

Christy Keating 5:52
what you've just described is what I'm hearing as well. But there's some interesting things about that, and I think it's a little bit different than when we were growing up in some ways, the thing that I think is the same, you know, the terminology has changed a little bit like when I was growing up it was we were going out, right? Yeah, and I'm sure there were other phrases that we used. But the thing that hasn't changed is they don't know what they're doing

Casey O'Roarty 6:19
for real. They're babies. They're baby daters,

Christy Keating 6:24
such babies and so, like, they don't always know when it goes from Snapchatting to, quote, unquote, talking to dating. And they aren't real adept at always, like, clarifying that with each other. And the other thing that I think is different in some of this is because of the sort of migration that we've all made as humans towards this online world, is that a lot of these things are happening electronically and not in person and then, and even some of the discussions around sex and sexuality are happening electronically, which puts a really unnatural pressure on those things when they're in person together. So there's been this kind of third element of electronics, and electronic communication added into all of this that has kind of disrupted some of the normal cycle for some teens and created a lot of uncertainty. Now there was a lot of uncertainty when I was a teen too. Not like I had this all figured out at age 16. My guess is you didn't either, no,

Casey O'Roarty 7:31
no, no, no, no, no, no. I just wanted a boyfriend. I just wanted a boyfriend. Like, yeah, yeah. That

Christy Keating 7:41
part doesn't really land one, right? Yeah. Part hasn't changed, yeah, yeah. So, you know, I think what you're hearing in terms of the terminology, is very similar to what I'm hearing. We live in a similar part of the country. There may be, you know, I think sometimes there's other language that is used in other parts of the country, but what has not changed is just the uncertainty and that they don't know what they're doing,

Casey O'Roarty 8:03
yeah, well, and it's interesting too, like talking about this whole electronic thing. I mean, on one hand, there's this opportunity. I mean, we would sit on the phone for five hours, right? Like, so that existed, and what I'm noticing because then, you like, throw in for the older teens dating apps. You know, as soon as Rowan turned 18 and she's been on the podcast and talked about Tinder, yeah, she's on Tinder, and I'm like, Oh, God, everybody just wants, you know, it's just sex all the time on Tinder, which isn't necessarily true and not necessarily what my daughter's looking for. It's more of a dopamine rush that somebody's paying attention and wants to talk to her, yeah, but and she's that's exactly what she claimed on the podcast, which is a little discouraging, I think, to the guys that are talking to her and realizing, like, Oh, she doesn't actually want to Meet me.

She just wants to feel good chemicals. I

uh, you know. And I guess it's the same in real life, like, how open and willing are they to expose real parts of themselves, whether it's exchanging, you know, Snapchat videos and talking, or in real life and talking, there's still, you know, I think on some level, it might feel safer to share some deeper things in this, like, weird, electronic way or not, but so I think that's interesting too. And I mean, I you know, we can go back and recognize how courting and dating has, you know, changed over time. And I know, like, the term hookup culture wasn't a thing when I was in high school, but I was living the hookup culture dream for sure, right? You know, I mean that it wasn't like for me, not for all my friends, but definitely I was a hookup girl, because at the end of the day, I just wanted them to be my boyfriend, right? Anyway, it didn't really work out for me, and I. Full I

Christy Keating 10:00
mean, I think that electronics have made it easier in some ways, but I also, you know, and certainly through the pandemic. I mean, a lot of our teens, that's all they had right to connect with each other. And so, you know, that change, but I think it also added a real layer of like it added to the uncertainty and sort of the immaturity of some of these relationships, because they weren't getting to hang out in normal, healthy ways, like many of the you know, our kids were not in class for a really long time, which not that they're well, hopefully not hooking up in class,

Casey O'Roarty 10:38
but there's an exchange, for sure, interact with

Christy Keating 10:42
each other, and they're, you know, being around people that they're interested in, and just normalizing some of those social interactions in a way that I think can make it a little easier than when they're out of class, whereas this, you know, everything was happening electronically. So it's just we made it even harder. And as parents, we've gotten behind the ball on some of the conversations, which I know we're going to dive into, because we were like, well, they're not getting together, so we don't need to talk about it, right,

Casey O'Roarty 11:12
right? It doesn't feel like that sense of urgency isn't right in our face. So meanwhile, their brain is continuing to go through its normal development, and their bodies are going through its normal development. And like, even in the best of times, right? Minus pandemic, it's like the body and yeah, it's like the body is moving forward quicker than their emotional literacy is developing. And so here they are. They're feeling that rush of emotion. And I'm not even talking about sex, like just being in relationship with each other and having those huge crushes. Can you talk a little bit about what's happening in the teen brain as the kids move into these like, I like, like you relationships? Yeah,

Christy Keating 11:57
yeah. Well, I love that you mentioned that there's kind of a difference between what's going on in their brains and what's going on in their bodies. Because, you know, depending on the kid, their bodies are like, fully developed by what anywhere between 15 and 18, yeah, or younger, maybe younger, yeah. I mean, the age that girls are having their periods is becoming younger and younger. So you know, theoretically, their bodies are mature well before their brains, because the most recent brain science shows that, you know, full brain development and the development of that prefrontal cortex, which is where our judgment lives, and our risk assessment lives, and all of those things, doesn't finish development until around age 25 which it's funny that you you know that we're talking about this, because last night at the dinner table, I have two kids myself, and we have an au pair that lives with us, who's 19, and we were talking about this, and I looked at them, and I was like, the three of you are sitting here with fully undeveloped And they looked at me like I was nuts. But when they start to fall in I'm gonna say, like, I mean, this happens for brains that are in love as well for adults, but, and I'm not trying to discount the teenage experience, like what they are feeling are feelings of love, not often in the same committed way that you or I might think about love, but there's, you know, we have these feel good chemicals in our brains. They're often referred to as the dose chemicals, which are dopamine, oxytocin, serotonin and endorphins and those all are kind of playing a role in what's going on when we're experiencing feelings of love. So what the research shows is that dopamine, that first one, we get a huge kick of it that's released during attraction. It kind of causes feelings of like euphoria. And, you know, we get giddy and energetic, and we probably, we've all recognized this in ourselves,

Casey O'Roarty 13:58
oh, God, if we could only just bottle that. And I know rank it on the daily.

Christy Keating 14:03
I know, you know, I've actually my, oh, my husband and I have been together 18 years now, and I love him dearly. But, you know, there's not that same giddy feeling that I had in the first week, oh yeah, months, the number of

Casey O'Roarty 14:17
love was over a long time ago. Love him, love the guy, and

Christy Keating 14:22
I love him dearly. But those chemicals aren't being released quite in the same way. So we see huge, you know, kicks of that dopamine. We see big kicks of oxytocin, which is that second dose chemical I was talking about. And then I should go back and say oxytocin is often thought of as, like the cuddle hormone. Just kind of abuse that too. Yeah, funny way of referring to it. But, man, yeah, if we could bottle those two and go back to those feelings, wouldn't that be awesome? And then, weirdly, we see a drop in serotonin, which is sort of conducive, again, to those. Feelings of lust and love and that giddy euphoria. So there's all these things happening in their brains, like their brains are being flooded with these hormones that make them feel awesome. But you take that and you couple it with an undeveloped prefrontal cortex, where their skills at judgment and you know, risk taking are maybe not as honed as parents would like them to be. And there is a recipe for awesomeness, and there's also a recipe for potential. You know, not awesome, like, I hesitate to use the word disaster, but in some Well, I

Casey O'Roarty 15:34
think it's an accurate word, yeah, or pain, just simple pain, yeah, yeah, right. I mean, my daughter was in a long relationship for a while there, and I remember talking to my husband like, God, hopefully they're together forever, because the breakup is not something I am excited to have to hold space for, right?

Like, yeah, it

just felt really scary. And it's so interesting those chemicals too, like, even, you know. And something that I'm seeing my son kind of play with is like taking it slow, like he's learned over time, like recognizing you can feel one way one day, and after a few days, like you might feel different. So Don't do anything rash. Just take it slow, you know? And I'm, I'm glad that that's landed, yeah.

Christy Keating 16:24
And he's had the benefit of an older sister and watching, right, watching that unfold,

Casey O'Roarty 16:29
for sure, and a mom who's like, let's talk about it. So this is all happening in their brains. Yep. What are, and you said, you know, those crucial conversations, what are the conversations that we I mean, everyone, you have to have the sex talk, and you should have been having the sex talk for many, many years by the time you're listening to this podcast. Okay? But as far as like, being an intimate I don't know if that's the right word, but like, romantic. I don't even know if romantics the right word, but like, like, like, relationship, yeah. What are those? How do we talk about healthy relationship with our teens?

Christy Keating 17:04
Yeah, it's such a good question. And I actually think intimate is okay, because there can be emotional intimacy too, right, right, right, right, and there's some level of, hopefully, you know, as relationships develop, some level of at least emotional and intimacy taking place. And the bad news is that we are, you know, I think many of us as parents have said, I want to do a better job than my parents did for me in many different ways. And certainly, anyone listening to your podcast piece is of that mindset, right? Like they're trying to do well for their kids. We are all trying to do well for them and by them. And the reality is we're not as a culture. We're not succeeding when it comes to issues like dating and sex. And you're right. Parents should have been having the sex talk, you know, or talking about sex and sexuality and love for years. And there are undoubtedly people on this, you know, listening to this conversation that have not been having that conversation. And I want to make it really clear that it's not too late. Like, it's never too late, like, please have it and have it now, even if you think they know everything they don't, what they're learning is often from porn, let's be honest. And that is not a model of a healthy, loving relationship, and it's not what I want for my kids, right? Well,

Casey O'Roarty 18:26
and even if they're not watching porn, like, just the presentation of sex and relationship in popular culture, TV shows and movies isn't necessarily like, it's a rare show where you're like, Oh, look at them. Yeah, well done, you know, like so

Christy Keating 18:42
for sure. I mean, it's coming at them from all different angles, right? So there was a really interesting research project that came out of Harvard called Making caring common, and in that they were interviewing like late teens and young adults about the information that they got from their parents about all of these things, sex, love and relationships. And what that showed is that more than 50% of parents have the sex talk either only once or never, right? Which means, yikes. I know it's horrifying. So that means, like, you know, the majority of parents or the majority of kids are not getting a lot of information about that from their parental figures. In contrast to that, what it showed is that, let's say, 70% of these, you know, older teens and young adults wished that they had received more information from their parents about all of these things, sex, love and relationships. So we have these like, opposing statistics where they're not getting it and they want it. And one of the reasons I hear from parents that about why they're not having these conversations is they're like, my kids don't want to hear it from me. They don't right, they don't want it for me. They won't listen to me. And so. I'm just gonna Okay, let them get it somewhere else. But the research isn't bearing that out like they do want to hear from us, right?

Casey O'Roarty 20:07
And I think it's important to know, just because they're not asking, and even if they grimace or roll their eyes, yes, right? Just because they're not like, oh, great, I've been waiting to have this conversation with you, mom. You know, doesn't mean like what you're saying is that's not an indicator, you know, that they don't want the information from us, short and sweet everyone, by the way, this isn't a two hour conversation. This is many short conversations.

Christy Keating 20:35
Yes, hundreds of two minute conversations, or five minute conversations. You know, the other thing that we know from that research project is that over 60% of teens and young adults have never had a conversation about the importance of not pressuring someone into sex. What? Yeah, wait, wait, wait with their parents. I should clarify with their parents, okay, okay, okay, but a lot of them aren't getting it like they're not getting it in school either, really, right, right, right. We might mention the word consent, but we're not translating that into ways that they get it. So they're not hearing from the most prominent people in their lives about these really critical things. So the first thing I would say is we just have to like, we're going to do it imperfectly, but we just have to dive in, yeah. You know, it may be imperfect. They may roll their eyes. They may say they don't want to hear it. We have to keep going back and doing it, and then we have to not just talk to them about sex. We have to talk to them about relationships like you know, a lot of the things that we can talk with them about will translate both into the realm of friendships and romantic relationships. Because, you know, when we're in a brand new friendship, we can also get some of those sort of love chemicals, right? Because it's new and an exciting thing to have a friend that we feel like we're really connected with, right? There's, you know, not usually the same level of risk involved there, but we can phrase or frame some of this in the way, you know, like we're talking about relationships in general. And then we can drill into the romantic intimate relationships, just to make it a little bit easier to get into that conversation with our kids. And then we have to talk to them about, like, what does a healthy relationship look like, and what are the red flags and warning signs for an unhealthy relationship? Ideally, we'll have this conversation with them before they're ever in a relationship, so that when those red flags, or if those red flags happen, they can recognize it and say, Oh, this isn't quite right, right? But even if, again, it's never too late, even if they're in the midst of a relationship where mom or dad is seeing red flags, like, we can still talk about it.

Casey O'Roarty 22:47
So give me a couple talking points. As I'm listening to you, I'm thinking to myself, like, right? And that those hormones are flooding their system, and we're seeing red flags, and they might even, like, see some red flags, but it's like, overridden. So anyway, I'm feeling that. But before we get to that, like, what are some talking points for, like, if we're going to talk about healthy relationship, what are just some little nuggets that listeners can jot down real quick and make sure they hit with their kids? Yeah, so

Christy Keating 23:18
I think one of the most defining ways we can help our kids think about a healthy relationship. Is a relationship that helps them feel good about themselves. It helps them feel confident, it helps them feel hopeful, it helps them feel caring and it it is a like a value add to all the different parts of their lives, right? It is helpful in terms of, you know, them committing to the things they love, school activities, right, instead of drawing or pulling away from those things. So, you know, it's much easier to tell you what the red flags are for an unhealthy relationship than it is to define a healthy one, because there's so many different, you know, iterations of a healthy relationship, but just this is a good start, though, open confidence.

Casey O'Roarty 24:06
Yeah, I love that, and I really appreciate that piece around committing. Like, what

Christy Keating 24:11
did you say that it supports the commitments? Supports the commitments? Yeah, I think that's a good way to phrase it, that it supports the commitments that they've made and the things that they care about, right? Rather than, you know, trying to get them to pull away from those things. Yeah, right. So, let's

Casey O'Roarty 24:28
talk about red

Christy Keating 24:28
flags. Yeah, so, and this is, you know, where, when we're talking to our kids, especially if they're not currently in a relationship, where we're seeing red flags, you know, I'm a big fan of, like, open conversations, back and forth, asking a lot of questions of our kids, but we do at some point also just need to, like, we kind of need to list these for them, right? Yeah, here's what you got to be aware of. So some of the things to be really tuned into a partner who is monitoring your phone, you know, your email, your social media accounts, like tracking your activity on. Those platforms, a partner who puts you down frequently, especially if they're doing it in front of other people. I mean, it's not good in private at all, right? But if they've gone to the place where they're even willing to do that in front of others, it's almost like a heightened red flag. You know, a partner who isolates them from family, friends, their beloved activities, right? My daughter's a dancer, and if she suddenly stopped dancing because, you know, her partner was isolating her from that, that'd be a huge red flag someone who isolates them financially. Now that's often we think about that more with adults, but there are even ways that teens can kind of get financial power over their partners, and just that emotional and physical isolation, extreme jealousy, insecurity or neediness. And this is so hard, because neediness is almost like a defining characteristic of many teen relationships, right, right, right? And so it's one of those things where there's no black and white, like, this is needy. This isn't needy there. It's a fine line in between them, and that's where we have to sort of explore with questions with our teens, like, have we crossed into the bounds of, wow? This is unnatural, unhealthy neediness, right? And

Casey O'Roarty 26:19
would that sound like, wow, I'm noticing that. Like, does that kind of when it starts to overlap into beloved activities and friends and family and so that could be an indicator of that excessive,

Christy Keating 26:31
yeah, I'm noticing that your girlfriend is, like, contacting you at all hours of the day, needing your attention. Like, how's that landing for you? You know, that's

Casey O'Roarty 26:42
so interesting though, Christy, because that's what they do all day long, is, I mean, it's not like, you know, it's just like pictures of one eyeball or their shoes on the floor, right? Hello, Snapchat, right? And so, yeah. So differentiating between that, and then maybe it sounds like, well, you left me hanging for an hour. Where were you? What were you doing? Okay, yeah.

Christy Keating 27:07
And part of this is also, you know, there's a learning progression here. So our teens are gonna be needy with one another, but helping them recognize that that's not a long term sustainable plan, and that that's not necessarily a healthy way of interacting. So, like, if that was the only red flag, right, that they're sending pictures of their eyeballs or their shoe or whatever,

Casey O'Roarty 27:29
well, no, that's not a red flag. That's normal. That's

Christy Keating 27:32
normal, right? That's and that's what I would say. Like, if that's the only thing going on, like, we can talk to them about, okay, how do we bring this into the realm of sort of a sustainable loving relationship, right? But I wouldn't say, uh, yikes. This is one that's headed for, you know, some form of right partnership or relationship fights

Casey O'Roarty 27:51
or check, you know, like getting setting some limits on like, I noticed you're had 45 million pickups during school today on your phone. Like, let's talk

Christy Keating 28:00
about that, right anyway, right? So it's on the list of red flags, but we have to take all of these in context with the other things, sure. So there's also, you know, we have to make sure they know that explosive outbursts, you know, really extreme tempers, mood swings, and any form of physical harm like massive red flags going on. There a partner who's really possessive or controlling, you know, where we cross from neediness into controlling behavior? That's definitely a red flag for me. And I feel like this should go without saying, but it doesn't a partner that pressures them in any way into any form of physical activity, right, anywhere from holding hands to intercourse that should not be done under pressure or coercion. So, I mean, I think that's a pretty good bullet point list of things that we need to be aware of and making sure they know like these are not signs of a healthy relationship, and if they're happening in your relationship, you know, in our kids relationships, we need them to know, we need them to hear that we will be there for them, like we're not going to judge them if that's happening, and that we will help them if they need it. And just really approaching this with that loving, gentle, you know, sort of approach, and recognizing this is a learning process for our kids, but that there are some things that are just not okay, yeah?

Casey O'Roarty 29:27
And I'm thinking about the tool of connecting before correcting, right? And you know, as you're listening, I'm sure that there's people listening who are like, Yeah, I know that there's some unhealthy stuff happening in my child's relationship. And as you go into that conversation, and I think you'd agree, Christy, like the starting point is you really care about this person, and what a great time in your life to get to experience, you know, a powerful relationship like this. I want to talk to you about some concerns that I. And I'm just curious as to how you're experiencing them, right? So, versus my approach was, you guys are codependent. Let's talk.

Christy Keating 30:11
Yeah, yeah. So the way you framed that, and not the codependent part, but is a really loving kind way to approach this with our kids, and is, I think, so important, because they will shut down so fast. You know, if we go in with judgment, and I'm going to get you out of this relationship and,

Casey O'Roarty 30:35
well, not only that, yeah, like, closes the window of any kind of self reflection on the relationship, and it becomes like my mom is such a bitch, yes, right? It just changed. There's no inner reflection there. It just becomes about how you don't get it, Mom or Dad doesn't get it, mom or dad, you know, is whatever XYZ fill in the blank, yeah.

Christy Keating 30:57
The other thing in all of this, and you kind of touched on this is, you know, is it so easy for us as adults? You know, I'm approaching 50 here. I've been in a relationship for 18 years, you know? And like, I feel like I have a pretty good handle on what a true, loving, committed relationship is, and looks like it's really easy from that place to get judgmental and to sort of say, like, this isn't real

Casey O'Roarty 31:22
love, right? And don't say that people, like, dismiss

Christy Keating 31:26
their experience. Yeah, I had a kindergartener who's like, I have a crush on a boy in my class, right? And if I had dismissed that as, like, ha, ha, right? That's ridiculous. That doesn't set my kid up for, you know, wanting to talk to me when they're older. So if we go into this with this sort of dismissive like, you'll get over it. It's like, this isn't okay. Just get out of the relationship. We not only will they not get out of the relationship, and will they form that narrative of my mom's a bitch, but we've can pretty much guarantee, like they're not going to talk to us about anything if it does get dangerous or scary, right? Because we've now demonstrated that we're not open and available to them.

Casey O'Roarty 32:14
Yeah, some other questions that are coming up for me to ask our kids is, you know, and the questions that I do ask when I find out that there's a little crush going on or some exploration is like, what do you like about this person you know? Like, what's drawing you in? What are you talking about? What are they into? Right? Like, I want to know the pull right for my kids and I try to everyone working on the neutral curiosity, right? Neutral curiosity. And, like, not expecting, again, a 30 minute conversation about, you know, the power of relationship, but just like, Oh, that's fun, you know, cool, yeah, let me know how it goes. Or don't, like,

Christy Keating 32:56
yeah, you know. And I think, coupled with that, when we think of that definition that I kind of gave for what a healthy relationship looks like, we can kind of surreptitiously sprinkle those things into the questions that we ask, like, oh, you know, does so and so, you know, make you feel really good, you know. Are you feeling confident? You know? Are you feeling hopeful? Or if we're noticing some changes in them. Like, we can say, you know, I'm noticing that it seems like you're a lot more worried lately, or down or depressed, or, you know, tell me about that. Like, and we can kind of link that gently back to the relationship, as you said, sort of with that open curiosity, neutral curiosity,

Casey O'Roarty 33:37
yeah. And for those of you that are listening who are like, Yeah, but I say, Tell me about that. And my kids don't say anything to me, even dropping in with some curiosity and not getting a response, and not being attached to getting a response, and like, letting them know that you love them and leaving the room you're still planting the opportunity for self reflection there. Like, you know, when you were saying, like, that whole idea, well, I haven't given the talk because they haven't been interested. Like, don't think that they don't want to hear these things, or that it doesn't matter, simply, because they're not giving you this. Like, really open. Oh yeah, let's talk about it. Response, most of them aren't,

Christy Keating 34:16
right? They're not going to sit down, you know, like, I might sit down with one of my best girlfriends and talked about right relationships or whatever like, they're not going to do that. But you know, to loop back to what we were saying at the beginning of this, the research shows that they want to hear from us. And I would argue that even the ones that answered that who said didn't really want to hear about it from my parents, they still needed to Right, right? And our job as parents is to give our kids what they need, yeah, right, what they need, not what they want. And so we have to, you know, when we can sprinkle those little bits of information in, even if we're not getting that deep conversation back from them, it's still somewhere going to percolate. In their brains, and it matters, and we'll serve them in the long run. Yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 35:04
so something came up in my Facebook group, heartbreak, right? Heartbreak? Mama shared a story of her son and his first breakup, and he didn't want to talk about it, and she knew the right thing to do was to just let him be how do we, Christy, prepare our hearts for their heartbreak, which is inevitable and so painful to witness? Do you have any thoughts about that? Oh, I

Christy Keating 35:33
do. And, you know, I don't think it's all that different from the things that we had to do when they were little and they had their first, you know, fight with a friend, or, you know, felt excluded from a group of friends or something, because it is so hard to watch our kids feel crappy, you know, physically crappy, emotionally crappy, like we just there's, you know, when we are in connected relationship, that empathy muscle gets put on high alert when our kids are hurting. And so there's no perfect answer to this, other than one. We need to know that this is going to happen. It is, and we just have to accept that as a reality. Two, I think we can remind ourselves that it happened to us and that we survived it, and that our kids will survive it too. Three, I think we can also remind ourselves that as hard as it is to watch them go through it, it's actually probably good for them, like it's a healthy part of learning to be in and manage relationships. And so, you know, just like when our toddlers jump off the stairs or the jungle gym or whatever and hurt themselves like there's learning that came from that, there's learning that will come out of this heartbreak as well. And then the final piece for us as parents, which is true forever and will be something I preach forever is the value of doing all of the things that we need to do to take care of ourselves. So, you know, we can call it self care. That's become a super trendy word, but we do. We have to take care of us and do the things that build our emotional reserves so that we can be there emotionally for them and then help them understand, yeah, this is really hard, and you're not going to feel like this forever. Yes,

Casey O'Roarty 37:24
thank you for that. Thank you for that. And so just, I know that there those two other crucial conversations that we didn't really focus on, that you know, talking about sex and talking about consent, but you have, is it a handout? Is it a blog post? What do you got? You have something that's really useful for parents that I want you to tell them where they can find it, as far as the consent piece goes, or whatever you've got. What do you got? Yeah, so

Christy Keating 37:51
I have a five page handout that parents can download on my website if they go to the heartful parent.com/consent

Casey O'Roarty 38:00
Okay, and we'll put that link in the show notes to parents and listeners, perfect. Yeah, yeah.

Christy Keating 38:06
And they can download it there. And what it does is it talks about how not to talk to our teens, how, you know, can talk to them in a way to kind of, at least create the possibility of a deeper conversation. It talks a bit about the, what I call the omegas of consent. Actually, that's the second handout that they'll get with it, and then the top 10 critical conversations around this that we need to have in them.

Casey O'Roarty 38:29
Awesome, perfect. Oh, thank you for spending time with me. Oh,

Christy Keating 38:34
thank you. You know this is one of those conversations that it's uncomfortable for so many different reasons, but mostly because we want to do better than our parents did, but we don't know how we're

Casey O'Roarty 38:45
clumsy. Yeah, we're clumsy at it. It's okay to be clumsy. Everyone just Just live your best clumsy life.

Christy Keating 38:52
Yeah? So I'm just the right thing that you're willing to have this conversation, because I know that. I know your listeners are. You know, they want this information for sure, any way that their kids want information about relationships, yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 39:05
yes, yes. What does joyful courage mean to you today? Christy,

Christy Keating 39:09
you know, I was thinking about this, and I'm at a place in my own parenting where I think parenting is perhaps one of the most courageous acts that we do as humans. You know, it's natural and biological and all of that, and it's also really freaking hard, and it takes an incredible amount of courage to do it. And you know that messaging that it's hard is pretty common in our culture, but what's not common is that we can do it courageously and joyfully. And I almost think like doing that. You know, doing the courageous things that we need to do, having these hard conversations and doing it with joy is like the perfect act of defiance against this sort of cultural messaging that we get. So that's what joyful courage means to me. Is leaning into it with joy, but doing the brave thing,

Casey O'Roarty 39:57
yay. We'll end it there. You so much. Thank you, Casey,

thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for listening. I adore this community. I'm so happy to bring you conversations that matter to you. Make sure you're on my email list. Go to be sproutable.com/teens. And get signed up now so you stay up to date on all the things, and you'll get seven tips over seven days to support you in nurturing stronger connections with your tweens and teens. We could all use that, right if you feel inspired and you haven't already, do me a favor and head over to Apple podcasts and leave a review. We're working really hard to stand out and make a massive impact on families around the globe. Your review helps the joy for courage podcast to be seen by even more parents. Thank you. Thank you to the team at sproutable for your back end help, and Chris [email protected] for your always epic editing. The show sounds so good because of you. I'm honored that each and every one of you listen each week, we are all doing the best we can in the moment that includes you, see you next week for the start of the alternatives to punishment limited series. Have a beautiful day. Bye.

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