Eps 289: Parenting for Social Justice with Dr. Traci Baxley

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Casey O'Roarty 0:03
Case. Hello friends. Welcome to the joyful courage podcast, a place where we tease apart what it means to be a conscious parent and a conscious human on the wild ride of parenting. I'm your host. Casey o'rourdy, positive discipline lead trainer, parent, coach and mom walking the path right next to you as I am perfectly raise my own two teenagers. Joyful courage is all about grit growth on the parenting journey, relationships that provide a sense of connection and meaning and influential tools that support everyone in being their best selves. Today's show is a live coaching show. Big thanks to the mom that was a yes to letting me record our conversation. I encourage you to listen for how grit shows up as we tease apart her challenges. Thank you so much for listening. I am deeply honored to lead you, always grateful that what I put out matters to you, and so happy to keep it coming. If you are interested in coming on and sharing your challenging parenting situation with me, because it is a collective journey, my friends and your challenge is, for sure, being felt by others in the community. Shoot me an email at [email protected] and we can see if it would be a good fit for the show. Thank you for who you are and for being in the community. Enjoy the show.

Welcome everybody. Thanks for listening in and big thanks for my guest today, Leah, who is a mom just like the rest of us of an adolescent, and she has agreed to come on the podcast. Let me record some live coaching around some challenges that she's having with her son, and I have no doubt that the conversation that Leah and I have will be useful to everyone, since we are really on a collective journey when it comes to parenting. So hi, Leah, welcome to the podcast. Hi.

Dr. Traci Baxley 2:10
I'm so excited to be here. Yay. I'm

Casey O'Roarty 2:12
really excited that you're here too. So you saw the call out Yes, whether it was like email or heard it on the podcast, and what inspired you to say, yes. How did I hook you?

Dr. Traci Baxley 2:22
Oh, goodness, well, just you and I have listened to some of your episodes of your podcast, and I'm entering into sort of the unknown with my son, and he's 12, so the teenage years are coming, and I honestly feel unprepared. And I was ready for, you know, the younger version of my son, you know, the two year old, the three year old, the whatever, but the the teenager, I don't feel ready for. Yeah, so it's knocking, knocking on the door I know. So I tried to find podcasts and Facebook groups and somebody who you know could help me to prepare for for the coming years so well,

Casey O'Roarty 3:22
I think it's, it's really powerful when we realize that we don't know what we don't know, right? I think that you are in a good place because you're seeking out information and you're wanting to be in the conversation, and so that alone is moving you along and getting you prepared for what's to come. And it the good news is it's, it is a lot like the toddler years. I mean, it's autonomy 2.0 basically, is what the teen years is. And remembering the toddlers and they had, we had to let them waddle around and toddle around and try new things within, you know, a safe confine. And the same is true with the teen years, it just feels like, Oh, my God, the stakes are so much higher. So yes, you're in a good place,

Dr. Traci Baxley 4:07
I think so, yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 4:09
yeah, tell me. Tell me what your biggest challenges are right now, with your 12 year old, and you only have one, right? Yes, one child, yeah. So what are your current challenges?

Dr. Traci Baxley 4:20
Current challenges want. Our ongoing challenge is getting him to to do the things that he knows he needs to do without us nagging him to do them.

Casey O'Roarty 4:34
Right? So, give me an example the last time challenge showed up.

Dr. Traci Baxley 4:39
I mean, it's a, you know, it's an everyday occurrence that we brush our teeth, you know, we brush our teeth twice a day. We brush our teeth before we go to bed. But we find that we have to, I have to remind him, and he knows the routine, but he finds other things to do first.

Casey O'Roarty 4:57
Is it more challenging in the. Morning, or in the evening, or both.

Dr. Traci Baxley 5:01
Um, in the evening, yeah, the morning, we have found a nice rhythm, yeah, um, but the evening is the more difficult time.

Casey O'Roarty 5:12
Tell me about the evening routine.

Dr. Traci Baxley 5:15
Um, we have dinner, um, and we usually our family time is spent, you know, watching a show together, and then after that is our wind down, you know, bedtime. So we would like him to, you know, jump right up off the couch and go floss and brush his teeth and, um, get ready for our bedtime routine, but that doesn't happen.

Casey O'Roarty 5:46
What kind of conversations have you had with him about the problem?

Dr. Traci Baxley 5:51
Um, it's sort of a just a gentle asking, you know, reminding. I usually I try to prep him beforehand, you know, 15 minutes beforehand, okay, and when this show was over, they were gonna go floss and brush. Sometimes that works. Sometimes it doesn't. It's not really a conversation so much as a reminder,

Casey O'Roarty 6:16
yeah, and tool, a strategy

Dr. Traci Baxley 6:17
that you Yes, and then when it doesn't happen, then it becomes, you know, we have to say it three times or four times or so we haven't really had a, like, a conversation around it outside of the nighttime routine.

Casey O'Roarty 6:33
Do you think that might be useful? Yes,

yeah, for sure. And I think we forget, right? I think that it's really common for parents to just kind of forget, especially when it's something that's so ingrained in us, like it's what we do before we go to bed, it's not even a thing, it's not even an issue, right?

And I'm wondering too, is it so much brushing and flossing his teeth, which, by the way, well done if you're getting some flossing in, I can work on that routine. Or is it that movement from together time on the couch into getting ready for bed. Where is the rub? Is it that getting up and off the couch and moving towards the bedtime stuff?

Dr. Traci Baxley 7:29
I think that's yeah, okay. I think because he's also it might have something to do with I should ask him this, because he's 12, and he can answer me. I think it's that he's getting older and he's not as ready to go to bed at the time that we have set right now, but he also has to get up early in the morning for school, so we would like him to get a nice amount of sleep,

Casey O'Roarty 8:01
absolutely and he is, he in sixth grade. He's in seventh he's in seventh grade. Yep. Okay, have you guys tweaked or played with bedtime at all with him? Oh, the same bedtime that he's had for a while, or it's

Dr. Traci Baxley 8:15
been, it feels like it's, this is the same that he's had for for probably a couple years now. Okay, yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 8:22
oh, that's great. So this is the let, like, I don't want to say leverage that you have, but something to consider right now that is really on your side is the fact that you get to acknowledge that he's gotten older, right? He's 12 now. He's in seventh grade, like, full blown Middle School, yeah, and and expectations and routines should reflect, right? That he's getting older. So it's great that you haven't kind of renegotiated that, because now it's the perfect opening to talk about what evening wind down, bedtime can look like, right? And so you said it actually out loud. You said, I should probably ask him. So I love this, because everybody that's listening to regardless of if it's bedtime or after school or morning or sibling conflict or whatever, the issue is, the best place to start with our kids, is actually going to them and asking about what their experience of the problem is, right? So going to him and saying, Hey, babe, you know, evening time, we all kind of get a little worked up, and I just, I'm curious about what it's like for you when we turn the TV off and it's time to go to bed, what's your experience of that, right? And he might say, I don't know, and that's okay. That's okay because bedtime happens every night, so you there's not like, a ton of urgency here. You can say, okay, great. Well, I want you to notice tonight how it feels, because we're not having this conversation. In the moment. This is like in the afternoon or weekend morning, like don't have it, like it's time for bedtime. Let's talk about bedtime, no outside of the moment. So he says, I don't know. And you say, Okay, well, I want you to pay attention tonight, just to how it feels when we turn off the shows and it's time to move towards bedtime. Okay, great. And then the next day, you say, so you know, what did you notice last night? How did it feel for you? How are you feeling about bedtime and the bedtime routine? What are you noticing about me and dad, right? The idea being Leah that you want to collect as much information from him as you can, so that you can look at the situation through his eyes, through his lens, because that's gonna let you know what's actually getting in his way, what the actual problem is. Right? In your mind, it's like, hey, this kid just won't move it along. Get his teeth brushed and do what he's supposed to do. But there's probably other things that are getting in his way. Could be things like, you know, I want a little bit more transition time. It could be that he's feeling like, hey, you know, you're always telling me what to do, and bedtime so early, and I'm older now, you just don't know really what it is, what his mindset is, until you ask. So that's a great that's a great place to start is asking, and you just tell me more about that. Oh, tell me more about that. No judgment. No. You know, he might say a few things, and you might be like that is not how it goes down. You get to say that in your mind. You don't get to say that out loud, right? Just honor that you're listening to his perspective and his experience and not make him wrong, not try to fix it. Just sit with it. And if he shares anything around like you know it feels like you and Dad, you just want to tell me what to do all the time, or he might have something else to share with you. If there is an opportunity to own anything like, you know, take it. Oh, wow. I can see how it probably feels like you don't have any control over how the evening goes down. Now you and from your perspective, it might be like, Dude, you're running the ship here, but you want to really honor again that he has. We can have two separate realities, right? That that's valid, it's typical. And so you know, when he gives you feedback just about anything that you may have unknowingly made him feel you can own that and acknowledge, like, oh, well, what would be more helpful to you, right? I don't really like it when you're just telling me over over, like, I know I'm supposed to brush my teeth, I'm gonna do it, right? Like, okay, great. How would it be? How could I show up better for you? What would be more useful to you to move in that direction, right? So again, helping him even think about what would be more useful for me, right? How might I want mom and dad to talk to me about this, and then you're working through kind of a game plan. There could also be conversation around you know, you're 12 now, maybe 830 or whatever your bedtime is, maybe 830 is a little bit early. Maybe we can do some extending of bedtime. Sleep is a non negotiable, right? So we're not going to go super crazy here, but maybe there's some room to shift it. I think it's important to go in knowing where your limit is, right? So, you know, we want to make sure he gets has the opportunity, I would say, to get a solid nine hours in. So of course, this isn't and I want everyone who's listening. I know I say this a lot, but it needs to be said a lot. This isn't just like, Oh, we're negotiating it. And whatever you want, right? That's not it. You get to have some firmness here and have a limit. But there might be an opportunity for a little offer, counteroffer, right? Like, well, you know, bedtime is at 830 and I'm just making up numbers, but I would be okay with it. You know, moving to 845, or nine? How do you feel? He might say, Well, how about 10, right? You might maybe start at 845, so if he says 10, you could say, Well, how about, you know, maybe nine. And he might say, you know, how about 915, and if that's your threshold, great, right? Okay, sounds good to me, but you want to start off a little low, so that he has the opportunity to get some counter offers in there and feel like you guys are moving towards something that works for both of you, because at 12, like you said, you're moving towards the teen years. And here's the thing, as they move towards the teen years and more autonomy, they want to feel like they have some control. Control and have some voice, and we want to give that to them. We want them to practice voice and practice control, because they're moving in the direction of being in charge of their life full time, right? So we want to give them lots of space to practice what that can look like. So I've said a lot, and you are the expert on your kiddo. What are you imagining showing up as you have these kinds of conversations with your boy?

Dr. Traci Baxley 15:26
Um, I think he's he'll be open to having a conversation like that. Um, he may be like you said, the first reaction will be, well, I don't know, you know. And, um, and maybe he won't really know what to look for or how to voice how he's feeling, but he may come to once we talk about it, you know, he may come to a place where he where we're all happy, you know, he's happy, yeah, spending a little bit more time, you know, in his room reading, or, you know, with the lights on, you know, um.

Casey O'Roarty 16:12
And I think too, when you ask him, and if he if he can't articulate, if it doesn't come to him, or if he feels like, oh, there's a right answer here. And I don't know what it is, so I'm just not going to say anything. It's okay also to prompt and to say, well, you know, I noticed that when we move from the living room into, like, bathroom bedtime, that it's hard for you to get off the couch. Like, tell me about that, so you can kind of remind him, like, this is what I see, and it seems like that's a place of struggle. So tell me about it, right? So you can kind of guide him with some specifics. Yeah. And then, you know, we get on your case a lot about brushing your teeth. If that's true, or if it's mostly just like the movement towards then that would be, you know, tweak the conversation as it works for you. But again, right, you're kind of like highlighting the places. Because if you're, if you're feeling the tension, he's feeling it too, yeah, right. Like, yeah, you guys get all worked up about stuff, and you know, like, he'll give him the opportunity to really speak into his experience of you as well. Yeah,

Dr. Traci Baxley 17:18
right? Because this is actually, this would actually be a conversation we could have around, really, just around him moving. When we ask him to move, you know, if we ask him to, you know, get off of his device, his gaming, because dinner's ready. You know, it's not five minutes from now or 10 minutes from now. It's, you know, I'm telling you this because we need you to come to dinner, you know,

Casey O'Roarty 17:53
right? Is that another place where it feels like, over, yeah, super typical. I feel like, very typical,

Dr. Traci Baxley 18:00
you know, the when you said, Is it him moving towards bedtime, or is it the brushing of the teeth? It's it's really him. It's really the moving from one activity to another. So it's moving from an activity, yeah, it's moving from an activity that he enjoys to one that he's not so crazy about, you know, the giving, right? And it's, yeah, the giving up, and remember his gaming, or the, you know, the the leaving of the, you know, leaving TV, or, you know, those are all places that that's all, what they have all have in common,

Casey O'Roarty 18:41
right? It's that movement away. And remember when they were, we had so much Well, we learned to have so much more grace around this when they were toddlers and preschoolers, because it made sense. But now they're in these great, big, grown bodies, and it's like, Why? Why is this still an issue? What's going on, and it is still an issue, because it's he's still developing. I mean, I know for me, I have times where I'm on the couch and I know I need to go to bed. I even have an alarm on my phone that says sleep is a gift for tomorrow. So that I move myself downstairs and getting so we're all kind of in this development in various places towards, you know, transition, right, and so, and with the gaming, there's a special little added layer to that too, because, you know, it technology in and of itself, and I gotta finish the level, and I gotta finish the whatever. And so, you know, having those conversations around, okay, so when it's time for dinner, it's actually time for dinner. So what would make it more. Useful and maybe, and that's where you come up with some ideas, you know, like, oh. And he'll probably say, Oh, just do it, right. Okay, great. That's one idea. Another idea, what's another idea? What's another solution? Another idea might be, you know, if you know, like you what you can do, decide what you could do. Leah, which is, I'll make sure that dinner's ready at 530 and the cutoff of the gaming time is 515 so that there is a little bit of a cushion. If he's like, Oh, I got five more minutes, and then I'll be done. Okay, great. Five more minutes, right? Within I say that, and then I'm like, Oh, geez. What am I actually advising here, but, but really, like there has to be, there doesn't have to be, but it is respectful to offer a little bit of cushion there too. Because just like they're demanding of us, and we've got to close out whatever we're doing to support them the same, we can extend the same grace and and and respect to our kids, I think, right? And so it's really about coming at these challenges from a place of what's getting in your way and what's going to solve that problem, right? Like, what's getting in the way and what might solve the problem. Let's work together to create some solutions. And then, and then you get to say, let's try this for a week and see how it goes. And we'll come back together, and we'll see how bedtime, you know, if there's anything you want to tweak, or I want to tweak, right? If we're still talking about bedtime, let's try this for a week and see, see if it's useful. Yeah, great.

Dr. Traci Baxley 21:38
That's a good

Casey O'Roarty 21:39
idea. And then you get to and then you get to give him, you know, and it might also be like, you know, when I'm on the couch and I just need a little bit more time to get up. Okay, great. How much time do you think you'd need? I don't know, like, five minutes. Okay, great. How will you know? You know you just want to keep coming back to, like, So, how will you know when five minutes is up? What would be useful, right? Do you want me to mention that it's been five minutes, or is that something that you want to navigate? I want to navigate. Okay, great. And then when you know the next day, when he's on the couch and still kind of sunken in and sitting there, you can say, hey buddy, what was our agreement about moving towards bedtime, right? And just really neutral, not angry, not threatening, not God, I can't believe you're not doing you know, I can't believe you're acting like a 12 year old, yeah. But just really, what was our agreement? And he might be like, no, no. Well, it's written on the fridge if you want to go remember it. But what was our agreement? Why don't you go check and see so you just kind of become a broken record. But the cool thing that happens that where we get to trust the process is by going to him and getting a better understanding and giving him a voice and coming up with something new and different and upgraded, because he's 12, that, in and of itself is a really powerful buy in for him. You might just notice that that's really the under the surface work that will probably make the problem much less potent. If that makes sense, like it just won't feel like, oh my god, this is so annoying that I'm gonna sign up for coaching around it, right? Yeah, that makes sense, yes, yeah. And you can use the same process for the video games, right? Like, here's another area, but just pick one thing at a time. But yeah, here's another area. Here's what I'm noticing. What are you noticing? What's annoying about it for you? And then how can we come up with a solution or a win win that would work for both of us? So any time in the day where you're noticing him struggle with transitions, and they're all, they all struggle with transition, with screen time, off of screen time, whether it's TV or phone or video games. That's really hard. Yeah, that's a really hard place. So you're not alone. And it's really useful to everybody to hear us having this conversation.

Dr. Traci Baxley 24:10
Yeah, the screen time is we're trying to come to a place that's we're okay with, and that he's okay with. So I, I am definitely going to have this conversation with him about the transition off.

Casey O'Roarty 24:38
And also with that, I'll say this out loud too, again. Leah, you get to ultimately decide, right, right, like, ultimately, I don't want anyone listening to hear the negotiation process and think that in the end, because in the end, if what you've come up with you're not okay with, then it's. A win, win like there's still some more negotiating and that, and also noticing, if you're feeling really rigid, check in on that, you know, is this something that maybe you're holding really tightly due to fear, because, you know, we're all we did not grow up with this thing, right? And so we have nothing except for the sensationalized headlines, some of which is accurate, some of which is just grabbing your attention, but that's all we have to go on. And it's not always super useful. And so we can get really fearful and rigid, and at the end of the day, our kids have got to learn to navigate technology, because it's only becoming more a part of our lives. And to learn, it means they have to have the space to practice Right, right? So it's that both and please place right there too. I

Dr. Traci Baxley 25:57
was there. I was at the fearful place over the summer, and, you know, and he was saving money for a gaming computer. And, you know, I saw him wanting to branch out into, you know, being on the Internet gaming. And I'm was, I am not comfortable with letting strangers into my home, you know, in that way, yep, communicating with him and and, but I also know that he needs to learn how to navigate all that, right, which

Casey O'Roarty 26:34
isn't the same as like. So let's fling open the doors and let everybody in, right? And I'm sure, like, probably, so what did you do? Did you have some conversations around around, what's okay and what's not okay with him? Yeah,

Dr. Traci Baxley 26:47
we've started the conversation because he did. He did hear that, that mom is scared, you know that I'm, I'm, you know, I'm okay with friends that we may know, that you know from school, or that he chat with or play with, or you know, but the whole world you know, being able to come in and someone you know, you know, like those, the sensational headlines like you were talking about earlier, about, you know, being groomed. And, you know, I'm that that's where I was over the summer, and that's, you know, that's where I still am. But I'm trying to let some of that go a little bit. And he, he did hear that how worried I was about that kind of thing. And, yeah, we've been starting, we have started to have the conversations about who may be allowed in and who may not be, and who's, you know, if someone starts asking questions or, you know, information you're allowed to share and you're not allowed to share, that super important.

Casey O'Roarty 27:57
And I think when we have those kinds of conversations with our kids too, when it's really open, not the lecture conversation. That's not a conversation, but Right? Actually asking that. Like, my favorite question with my kids is like, well, what are your red flags? How do you know? What do you look forward to? You know? Because, yeah, because that gives me a sense of, like, okay, they're not completely like super clueless, like floating around internet land, remembering too our younger kids, especially at 12, he's probably gotten like technology safety Conversation since for many years, because at school, they're already talking about online safety, so it's not necessarily new. Doesn't mean we don't talk about it with them. 100% we do, just like the sex talk, just like all the other talks, right? Yay for it happening out in the world. And we are there. We're there that that source that they need, that soft landing, that place where they get to come and really connect. So I think it's great that you're starting those conversations. I also as a thank you for coming on and letting me record this conversation. I would love to gift you. Last year, I did an online summit called teens and screens are you? Do you know about that? I

Dr. Traci Baxley 29:23
think I read, I think I listened to one of those podcasts. I think I listened to one of yours. You had a conversation with someone about screens. I

Casey O'Roarty 29:37
did a whole summit, and I would love to just gift the whole thing to you. There were five different conversations, and one of them was about gaming and, I think, and online safety and all the things. So I think that will also be a really great resource in having, continuing to have those conversations with that would be awesome. Okay, yay. And if you're listening and you're wondering how. I get my hands on that. I just will encourage you to check the show notes, and I will make sure to put a link in there for for grabbing yourself a copy of that summit. So look in the show notes for that. Leah, thank you so much for hanging out with me and doing this with me and letting me record it. I really appreciate it. Sure

Dr. Traci Baxley 30:20
I have. I've had a lot of fun. Yay, good.

Casey O'Roarty 30:23
Well, and I would love for you to circle back with me and let me know how you know what I shared has, how it's come into practice for you and your family, and how it all unfolds. Okay,

Dr. Traci Baxley 30:35
absolutely awesome.

Casey O'Roarty 30:38
I want to ask you one last question, because I always ask my guests this question, what does joyful courage mean to you?

Dr. Traci Baxley 30:46
Oh, goodness, vent, I guess venturing into the unknown with an open mind, because this feels like the unknown to me. Yeah, so I'm trying to keep my, you know, my mind open to all of it. Well,

Casey O'Roarty 31:09
I've got you, we've got you, the community has you. So I'm so glad you're a part of it.

Dr. Traci Baxley 31:12
Me too. I need it. You.

Casey O'Roarty 31:23
All right, thanks again for listening. If you feel inspired and you haven't already, do me a favor and head over to Apple podcasts and leave a five star review. I'm working so hard to stand out and make a massive impact on families around the globe. And when you review the show, it helps the joyful courage podcast to be seen by even more parents. If writing a review on Apple isn't your jam, then screenshot the show and share it wherever you hang out, Facebook, Instagram, tag me and I will reshare it to my stories. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I love connecting with you on social media. I'm so grateful for each and every one of you and how you show up for each other and for your families. Have a beautiful, beautiful week. My friends love You

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