Eps 285: Revisiting ADHD with Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart

 

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Casey O'Roarty 0:03
Hey, friends, welcome to the joyful courage podcast, a place where we tease apart what it means to be a conscious parent and a conscious human on the wild ride of parenting teenagers. I am your host. Casey o'rourdy, positive discipline lead trainer, parent, coach and mom walking the path right next to you as I imperfectly raise my own two teens. Joyful courage is all about grit growth on the parenting journey, relationships that provide a sense of connection and meaning and influential tools that support everyone in being their best selves as you listen to today's show, pay attention to how grit shows up in the conversation. Also, if you're not already on my email list, what are you doing? I want to remind you again to join. I pop into my subscribers inbox with stories, podcast, news and offers every week, my hope is to make you laugh, or at least relate and keep you updated on the joyful courage goodness. If you're into it, go to www dot joyful courage.com/email, and sign up. Signing up now will get you the seven tips for connecting with your teens. I share seven tips over seven days that if you put into practice, will make a difference in your relationship with your kids. Each day you will get an action step and a bonus step. If you're feeling like an overachiever again, signing up for the email list at joyful courage.com/email sign up and stay more connected. Thanks so much for listening. I am deeply honored to lead you. I'm grateful that what I put out matters to you, and I am so excited to keep it coming. If you love this show, please take a screenshot and share it on your social media. Let your friends know you are listening and finding value in this podcast.

Today, I am revisiting my conversation with Dr Anne Louise Lockhart. Dr Lockhart is a pediatric psychologist and board certified in clinical child and adolescent psychology. You may know her from her amazing content and reels that she puts out daily on Instagram as the founder president and owner of a new day pediatric psychology in San Antonio. Dr Anne Louise Lockhart is passionate about serving families in her local community, the state of Texas and beyond. I am super honored to revisit this conversation with her today. Hi, Dr Lockhart, welcome to the summit.

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart 2:41
Thank you, Casey for inviting me.

Casey O'Roarty 2:43
I'm so glad that you're here. So we're going to discuss ADHD today, and I wanted to include this discussion in the mini summit because I hear from a lot of parents of teens who are struggling and can't seem to tease apart, or are challenged by teasing apart how to be with their struggling teens in a way that's helpful and not hurtful. And I don't have a teen with ADHD, but I imagine it to be really challenging to separate what's typical teen behavior and what is ADHD getting in the way. Can you start by talking about your work and how you started working with families and kids with ADHD and how it shows up during the teen years?

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart 3:24
Yeah, definitely. I think that's a great question, and that's something that we get questions a lot about, either through therapy or through psychological testing and assessment, for people to kind of figure out what's going on with their teen like, is this something that's normal. Is it hormonal? Is it anxiety? Is it ADHD? Is it a learning disability? There's so many things that look like ADHD, so how I like to conceptualize it is a rule out diagnosis, and what that means is that because so many things look like ADHD, when we look at it as a team in my practice and for myself as a clinician and even as a parent coach, and look to see, let's rule out anything else that maybe it's not so you know, was there a recent move? Was there a death in the family? Was there a birth? Was there trauma in some kind of way? Is there abuse? Is there substance issues going on? Are there grade and learning issues? Is there a new teacher? Is there bullying going on? Are they now sexually active, and are they boy or girl crazy? Like, what else stuff is going on? Because all of those things are all executive functioning issues in terms of self control, time management, weighing the pros and cons of stuff, seeing your strengths and weaknesses, all of that are executive functioning issues, which ADHD is an executive functioning issue. So that's why it's so important to make sure we look at all of the quote, unquote, normal stuff that's going on in your life, some of the abnormal stuff, and then we can rule in is there truly a. Gnosis going on, like ADHD, or some other diagnosis completely different. Yeah.

Casey O'Roarty 5:04
And what's the elevator pitch for ADHD? What exactly is it? Because I think those of us that aren't directly affected by it, it's just like, oh, kids that can't sit still and focus, right?

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart 5:16
Yes. And I get that a lot from teachers and parents who they're like, No, this kid has no ADHD because they get straight A's like, well, that has nothing to do with anything. You could be extremely brilliant and still have ADHD. It is not an intelligence issue. So the pitch here for ADHD is that ADHD is an executive functioning dysregulation disorder, so everything that basically controls and dictates how we intake the world and how we interact with the world. Is slowed down in a way. It's not activating like it should be when it comes to ADHD. So when you have to start a task and complete it, when you have to manage your time, when you know how you're coming across to other people, when you're looking at your personality and decision making, all of that stuff is ADHD. So it's really something that a child who's not neurotypical and is dealing in a world that is then they're having to kind of figure out, how do I manage my mind, my body, my thoughts and my behaviors? So it's about all of that. It's about regulating your thoughts, your emotions, your behaviors in a way that kind of makes sense for you and other people. It's all about regulation. So it's a regulation issue,

Casey O'Roarty 6:33
yeah, yeah. Well, and as I heard you say, how do I manage myself? That's the short version of what you just said, Yes, totally. But I'm also guessing like that in and of it's like asking that question, in and of itself is a higher level question, right? Because I think even adults, you know, spend so much of their time just managing themselves, but to step out and say, How am I and how does this affect the world around me? And what can I do differently? Is even a bigger ask for adults, even let alone kids, right? Exactly,

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart 7:07
because that in itself. How do I manage myself? That question is a self monitoring. It's a meta the big word for it is metacognition, knowing about your thoughts, thinking about thinking. And you know, we really, don't really develop that until we're adults, actually. And so when we're asking a teenage manage themselves and to know how they're coming across and understanding and realizing that they've just rolled their eyes at you, or they have a tone when they talk to you, or they're like every time you ask them a question, yeah, and then you're expecting them to know that, and then you punish them for it, right? Like, that's kind of unfair, because they don't really understand themselves that much. And then we're asking them to do that. I've

Casey O'Roarty 7:50
read that ADHD can look different in boys and girls. Is that accurate? That is accurate. So what is it? Talk a little bit about the differences there.

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart 7:59
So in general, of course, it's there are always exceptions. But in general, boys tend to be categorized with ADHD, hyperactive, impulsive type. Girls be diagnosed as ADHD, primarily inattentive type. So there's three types of ADHD, hyperactive, impulsive, inattentive and combined. Okay, okay, so for boys, the hyperactive, impulsive type, are the ones that really get noticed. That's the one that gets a lot of air time, because they are very disruptive. They're loud, hyper. They cause a lot of disruption in classrooms and in their homes, because they're moving constantly. It's like they're constantly being energized, and they don't stop. So that's the one that really wears teachers and parents out because of that. And then the girls with the inattentive type, that one tends to go unrecognized and actually unnoticed for a long, long time, because they don't cause all those behavioral disruptions and problems. They are just kind of off in their own land, and they kind of look and they're labeled as ditzy, airheaded, not there, not present, but you know, they're there, but they're also missing information, just like the boy is who has the hyperactive, impulsive type. They're just not getting in the same way. So that's typically how they're often broken down. And then, of course, of course, either one can have either diagnosis,

Casey O'Roarty 9:20
right, right?

Are there co occurring conditions that accompany an ADHD diagnosis? Oh, definitely.

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart 9:33
So that's what a lot of clinicians call comorbid diagnosis. So many there's something about that

Casey O'Roarty 9:39
word. It just seems such like such a hopeless word,

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart 9:47
right? So the comorbid or the CO occurring diagnosis, which I think I agree with you, sounds much more pleasant. Is so just like anxiety and depression tend to have hang out together, they like to kind of be bestie. Is ADHD also have diagnoses that go along with it. So when you have a kid with ADHD, they will often also have oppositional defiant disorder, which is kind of a controversial one. So these are kids who are more acting out. They're very disruptive, and they don't tend to respect people in authority.

Casey O'Roarty 10:20
Okay, do they kind of have like, an angry

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart 10:23
edge? Yes, they do. These are kids who they're not just testing authority, but they just seem like they're mad all the time. And so ADHD and odd tend to co occur a lot together. ADHD and learning disabilities tend to occur a lot together. And so that's why it can be missed often, because they're missing information, because of the inattention issue, but also because of the ability issue. So it could be like a math disability or reading or learning disability in some way, maybe it's a handwriting disability. So those two a lot together, and then anxiety and depression, also, because many of these kids realize that they're different, especially they get to school age like 910, years old, and they realize that they learn and think and act differently. They get in trouble more than their peers, so they beat themselves up a lot, and they tend to get very depressed. And one kind of condition, it's not really a condition, it's a term that people are really trying to push to actually go into our diagnostic manual, is a term that's called rejection sensitive dysphoria. It's a huge, big word. I wish they came up with something different. But

Casey O'Roarty 11:29
can you say that one more time?

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart 11:31
Yeah, rejection, sensitive dysphoria,

Casey O'Roarty 11:35
ah, so like the assumption that everybody's rejecting them, even if it's just a simple yes requester, exactly.

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart 11:42
So because these kids tend to get into a lot of trouble, they're always being corrected. They're always like, Oh my God, that's still, oh my gosh, pay attention. Oh my gosh, you never listen, right? Always getting these messages all the time, or the huffing and puffing from their parents all the time, right? Or you're just this annoyed. They always feel like people are annoyed with them. And so kids with ADHD tend to feel rejected at a greater level, even if it's just perceived and not real, and they tend to take that rejection so much more personally that they are always in their head beating themselves up. And so that's why they are at a greater risk for depression and then also anxiety as well. So ADHD and anxiety tend to also co occur a lot together, and that's also a big issue. So you know, as you can see, even if you rule in ADHD, there's also other things to be going on in addition to it that kind of clouds up the whole diagnosis as well. Yeah, that's

Casey O'Roarty 12:41
annoying. Yeah, it is totally deal with one thing at a time, right? Oh man. Yeah, it

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart 12:51
is. It's overwhelming for parents and for kids, because they're like, oh, you know, this is what they have. And then they were like, oh. And for me, I don't like giving a ton of diagnosis to a kid, I just don't I think that's overwhelming for parents, for kids, but oftentimes the reality of it is that there's more than one thing going on, because maybe the ADHD was the first thing, then the other things kind of got piled on secondary to it.

Casey O'Roarty 13:13
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because there's not, like, late onset ADHD is there is ADHD something you show up wired,

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart 13:21
yes and no.

Casey O'Roarty 13:23
Okay, talk about that. Okay, so

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart 13:26
that has changed over the years. So from since 1901 we've known about ADHD, it has been seen differently throughout this decades and century, but since 2013 then it changed slightly in terms of how it was seen, okay. So for about 100 years, ADHD was seen as something that was more of the behavioral stuff, some of the thought stuff that occurred by the time you were age seven. And if you didn't have the symptoms by age seven, there's no way you could have ADHD. That's kind of the general look in terms of how it was viewed, okay? And then in 2013 the new diagnostic manual was like, wait, hold up. No, no, you can have the symptoms up until age 12. So now they've extended the age okay? So I thought that was kind of interesting. So by age 12, after age 12, if you don't have the symptoms, and then all of a sudden, you have these things that look like ADHD, then the thought either it was missed before age 12 or something else happened that caused you to have executive functioning issues. So that could be head trauma. Could be like a traumatic brain injury. Maybe there was a tumor in your head. Maybe there was you had some kind of chemo medication or anti seizure medication that changed the way your brain is functioning. So there are other things, or like when I worked with soldiers, when I was with the army, in the Air Force, a lot of the air soldiers who've been through significant deployment under stress, not sleeping, moving away from home for the. First time many of them came in looking like they had ADHD, even if they didn't have a history of it, because of the stress they were under. Yeah, right. Because if my brain is under stress, sleep deprived, tired, overwhelmed, traumatized, it's gonna show up as inattentive and forgetful and fidgety. Yeah. And I've even worked with a lot with since I work a lot with kids with medical illnesses and issues. A lot of times I'll see an adult who had cancer as a child, and then now they look like they have ADHD now, because the chemo changes your brain. Yeah, you know. So it's such a complicated diagnosis. It's not very cut and dry at all. And the thing is that there is no late onset. But the thing is, once you get it, you have it. So you can, quote, unquote, outgrow the hyperactive, impulsive type, but the inattention tends to stick right,

Casey O'Roarty 15:50
yeah. But you can also develop that metacognition piece too, and start yes to recognize Yes,

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart 15:58
exactly right. That's why, you know, when people just get on the medication, although medication for ADHD can be really effective, the problem, though, is that if you're not learning skills, then you're not really helping yourself, because you have to learn the skills to help your executive functioning, yeah, so you could be more in control.

Casey O'Roarty 16:16
So at the top, I mentioned, you know, the challenge of a teen with ADHD, plus just the teen brain development. Those two things coexisting at the same time. And you know, you and I both talk a lot about positive parenting. We're both kind of under the umbrella of relationship based parenting. And so the tools and skills there, at least what I you know, the things that I talk about with parents are making an agreement and natural consequences, but also a lot of encouragement along the way. And, well, now I'm making an assumption in my mind. I'm assuming that with ADHD. So actually, I'll just ask the question, is ADHD something that when parents come to you and get help for ADHD, is it more? Because I've heard that it requires more of kind of a behaviorist approach, like that immediate reward or consequence to support the kids in knowing and perhaps developing that metacognition, I don't know. Yeah. Is that accurate? Yeah,

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart 17:26
sort of because it's a lot of what they focus on is behavior modification, which is what you're asking about, right? Yes, there is a lot of behavior modification in terms of praise, rewards and consequences. The problem, though, with ADHD is that that tends to die out very quickly and not that's the problem, okay, yeah, well, that's

Casey O'Roarty 17:47
the problem in general, right? Yeah.

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart 17:49
Theory, it is, it is, is that it can be effective, but you're still dealing with the surface, right? Yeah. So if you want to help someone stop biting their nails, and if you want to potty train a kid and you want to help someone sleep through the night, you can do a lot of behavioral stuff, and it can be extremely effective, but if you don't get to the root of what's really going on, then you're not really dealing with the issue, right, right? So for ADHD, the problem is that you say, Okay, make up your bed, and you remind them to make up their bed, and you have a chart to make up their bed, and you have a visual schedule to make up their bed, and all of those can be really good. And then you give them, here's a quarter, here's a token, here's a chip. And then after a while, especially with ADHD, because consequences are very short lived, they don't remember very well, then they're always expecting I do this. You give me this, right?

Casey O'Roarty 18:33
Or, you know what? I don't really want that anymore, so I'm just gonna do my own thing. Yeah,

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart 18:37
right. I don't care about your own chip. I don't really care about the reward and then insulting

Casey O'Roarty 18:41
me with those stickers. So now jump ahead, and now we're in the teen years. And you know, I know from my experience of being a parent of teenagers how easy it is to slide into the behaviorist mindset, even as I've had, you know, 15 years of my own study and my own teaching around a different lens of seeing parenting and relationship out of but the stakes feel so high once they're teenagers, and then layer, like I said, layering on the ADHD, what are some of the things that parents are coming to you about, as far As what's ADHD and what's typical teen behavior, and what do you have to support parents in knowing the difference? If that's possible, yeah, it is.

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart 19:27
The thing is that they are, they look the same, and they're kind of the same. Ish, because with a teen, they are for the first time, because a big developmental task during the teen years is to become your own individual, right? Yeah, it's becoming your own autonomous, independent individual who thinks separately and differently from your parents. And for a lot of parents, that's really hard for them, especially if they had a really close relationship with their teen when they were a child, and then all of a sudden they have political and religious and school and environmental view. That are totally different than their parents and how they were raised. And a lot of parents have a hard time with that, because they're like, well, we didn't raise you this way. This is not how you're supposed to think. And what about our close relationship? Where did that go? And so a lot of teen behaviors that are typical. What happens is that when you pile ADHD on top of that with the dysregulation issue is now they're having the thought, and they're just saying it, and they have no kind of feels like filter, and they're kind of voicing things, or they're having a hard time maintaining and regulating their space. So a big thing, for example, in the teen years that I hear about from parents a lot is like keeping their room clean, which seems like such a little issue, but it's a big source of contention for a lot of parents and or, you know, not putting away things, not taking responsibility, not wanting to do the chores. So all of those are typical kind of teen stuff. But when you pile ADHD on top of that, it's the constant reminders, not remembering how to do it, or not remembering to do it, or not wanting to do it, because a big thing with ADHD is task initiation. That is a huge executive functioning skill that is often lacking, and is the most problematic one for people with ADHD

Casey O'Roarty 21:12
task initiation

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart 21:13
is that we said, yes. So starting something okay, like, it's such a basic thing, is like, Okay, I told you to do the dishes. Oh, I don't want to do the dishes. It takes forever, because then now you pile time management on top of that and self monitoring, they think that washing that one cup and two plates are going to take forever, so even starting it is a beast. And I actually read this article from added to big magazine, and they talked about how task initiation with ADHD has been shown to actually be physically painful for people with ADHD, like it hurts to start something, so oh my gosh, I don't want to start my big project. It's like, physically pains me to put my fingers on the keyboard to start. Like, it's pain for them, mentally and physically.

Casey O'Roarty 22:09
So how do you support parents? Because, I mean, even, like I said, my I don't, we don't have an ADHD diagnosis at my house, but I know that moan, I know that moan and groan of like, really, I'm like, yeah, it's one plate and one like, literally, I'm thinking upstairs on the coffee table is one plate and one cup from last night. So how do you encourage parents to be with that in a way that is helpful for their teens?

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart 22:34
So a big thing that I talk about on my Instagram page and Facebook as well is to not focus on fighting battles or actually not choosing a battle. We always hear, you know, choose your battles. Choose your battles. And I kind of challenge that in the sense that you know, no, there is no battle, choose the relationship instead. And although, yes, a clean room and doing the dishes when you're supposed to, and taking out the trash, although those would be beautiful and wonderful, the problem is that every time you fight this battle, every time you think you, quote, have won the war, because I got them to take out the trash now they're, you know, seeing you as the mean parent that they can't talk to you about anything, because you're always having this scowl on your face now you've just created this separation between you and your team, and then you wonder why they don't want to talk to talk to you and have their earbuds in all the time. Because they feel like you're always mad at them, that you're always nitpicking and nagging over every little thing, and yes, the clean room would be beautiful. And them doing what they're supposed to be doing when you tell them, would be awesome. But the problem, though, is that in the midst of that, when are you actually having a good relationship with your kid? And so a big thing that I try to help parents with, which is, I think a big part of this is you're changing your parent mindset, is that, yes, we want to teach them a set of skills that's preferable and that's ideal for their future life, so they're not living as bums on the street. We totally get that. Yeah. Yeah. But the change in your mindset about what your child is capable of doing and what is more important, is their clean room more important, or is your relationship with them more important? And so that's a hard thing for parents. So they're like, so I have a good relationship, and they have a messy room, like, no, no, stop thinking about it, right, either or right? Either or or. It's not an either or situation. So what it is is that we have to develop more CO regulation with our kids, meaning we have to sometimes do more for them, or with them, alongside them, in collaboration with them, because with ADHD, many times they are mentally unable to do many of the things that we're asking them to do. Now, a key thing we haven't talked about yet, which I think is important with that, is that kids with ADHD are two to three years developmentally more immature than their same aged peers. So kids, for example, if you have a 14 year old with ADHD, you're you're actually a. Although they're 14, they might actually be operating as an 11 or 12 year old, developmentally, not intellectual or intelligence. And is that developmental, and

Casey O'Roarty 25:09
is that across the board, like developmentally inside of relationship, inside of task completion, all across, all across

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart 25:16
so, you know, even expecting a 14 year old, who might be, say, in eighth grade to sit through a long lab for an hour and a half, for example. Would you expect an 11 year old to be able to do that? Or you're expecting a 16 year old to be able to get their driver's license? Well, they're actually like 13 year old. Would you really expect that? Right? So you see a lot of traffic violations, a lot of accidents, a lot of carelessness, because it's I mean to regulate yourself while driving, being in class, social relationships, even like playing a game to know how to even the back and forth, the give and take of a conversation, they're more immature In all of those areas. And so when you expect, say, a 14 year old to know how to clean their room, and yeah, you might expect an 11 year old to know how to do that, the problem then is, then you're piling on all the executive functioning stuff. Even starting it organization is another executive functioning issue. So how do I even start? My room is a mess. Where do I even start? So they're overwhelmed, so then they're going to end up just shoving everything under their bed in their closet, because they don't even know where to start. It's just an overwhelming task. So then, to preserve the relationship, we need to go alongside them and do it with them, so that we're not angry with them, and we're not communicating anything negative. We're just saying, hey, you need more help with this, and I want to support you in this process.

Casey O'Roarty 26:43
So the dots that I would connect with a typically developing kid would be working on building relationship outside of task, and then task shows up, and because we have a solid relationship, they're going to be the likelihood that they'll be easy going around, like, hey, let's do this together. Increases, would that be the same with an ADHD team? So they will. So the idea of banking, like the relationship bank and not I want everyone to hear me like, this is not a manipulation tool. It's not like, Oh, I'm just going to keep depositing and then they're going to do what I want. So everybody, that's not what I'm talking about here, but really like taking the time to be with and to be in connection and be in relationship with our kids. And I think too like because let's remember all of us that we are not perfect. We're imperfect humans. And I know those of you out there living with kids who are experiencing ADHD and all the other things that go along with it. It's hard to keep your together, and your lids gonna flip, and it's gonna be challenging. And the more that you've worked on relationship, the easier it'll be to repair when you have kind of lost it on your on your teen and come back into relationship. Would you agree with that? I

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart 28:00
totally agree with that, because it's not the same as when people say things like, Oh, my son was so sweet to me, and he made me breakfast in bed, and he cleaned up the kitchen, and he did all these things and he said, Hey, can I have $100 or, Hey, can I have no then, like, what is that? Right? So the parents feel that ways that, oh, if I'm doing all these things and I'm building a relationship, and he's gonna want to do something for me. It's not me, no, right? It's about that. It's about doing it simply because you love and care for your child, that you're maintaining that relationship, because the relationship is much more important than the clean room. Yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 28:34
yeah. And I imagine that these teens can feel incredibly discouraged, like some of the things that you mentioned, living in a world with rules that simply don't support their operating system, not to mention all the years of messages they've received and perceived about their worth and how they fit. So what are some openings that parents can create? Because I imagine too, that the conversation about the ADHD could be by the time they're teenagers, like, don't talk to me about this anymore. You know, especially if they're feeling discouraged, if that relationship bank isn't what it could be, what are some openings that parents can create for talking about tools and strategies that would be helpful for their kids? So

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart 29:20
I think one of the things I find most helpful is that although by the time I see them as teens, and they know they have ADHD, and they've been living with it for quite some time, is that they don't really understand what ADHD is. I found that 100% of the time is that whenever I've seen a teenager come in with their parent and they say, Oh yeah, I have ADHD causes me problems. I'm like, let's talk about that some more, right? And they see it as such a negative thing. We look at ADHD, and it's like, this negative diagnosis. I don't see it as negative and and I find that many times parents and teenagers are misinformed, because, yeah, I mean, why would they have known anything? They just get a diagnosis. They get some medication. If they do or they are. Original. I now have this IEP, this individual educational plan at school, to have accommodations, and that's all it is. And so what I think is the best in for parents and teens is to truly be educated on what ADHD is, where it is in the brain and how it impacts them. I think that's the best place to start. Yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 30:20
are there good resources for that as far as, like, delivery methods?

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart 30:25
Yeah. So one would be my ebook. So I did a book on ADHD for parents, basically called You Are Not Alone. It's a comprehensive guide for parents of kids with ADHD. So I do a lot in terms of bringing all that stuff together, but

Casey O'Roarty 30:39
I'll have a link for that in the summit, so everybody will get to see that great.

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart 30:43
And so I go into a lot of the detail in terms of how to discuss and what that looks like in the brain. I think another good resource is Dr Becky Bailey. She's an educator on Conscious Discipline, and she has some hilarious and great resources and books on exactly that.

Casey O'Roarty 31:01
Perfect. Yes. Great. Yes. Becky Bailey, I've heard of her. Yes.

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart 31:05
Another one, though, would be Rebecca Branstetter, okay, she does a lot of stuff on executive functioning, and she looks at it more in terms of an executive functioning issue, really going into detail about how to deal with that. So Rebecca Branstetter, she's a psychologist as well, and that those are some really good resources in terms of really understanding executive functioning and ADHD, and then how to feel more equipped in a way that's written that's easy to understand.

Casey O'Roarty 31:30
Great. Yeah, what would you say that teens with ADHD need most from their parents? They

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart 31:37
need a relationship. They need a strong relationship, to understand that they have flaws, as do the parents, and to feel like they are unconditionally loved. And I know it's interesting. A few months ago, my team and I, we had had met because we were talking about we were getting a lot of teens coming in with anxiety and with ADHD, and we kept feeling like, Okay, what do these parents need? What do these teens need? And so we all went out, we tasked ourselves with, let's look on the internet. Let's look at blogs and podcasts and research and books and everything, to see what what is it? And so we gathered all this information, okay, and the basic underlying themes that we kept finding across the board from like people who are in academics, in research, as well as people who were writing blogs and podcasts and their own experiences. The thing we saw consistently across the board was what teens need is to feel unconditional love, to be respected by their parents, to feel like their parents are also vulnerable with them, so that the parents are also sharing their struggles that they had as a team, that they don't feel because a lot of times they feel like their parents come across as I've been perfect, and I was an amazing team.

Casey O'Roarty 32:47
Well, I've checked that box, so yeah, my kids know.

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart 32:52
And so I was like, wow, look at all of this research, quote, unquote, that we're looking from all these like scampers and people who are like, living the life. And the basic thing that these kids need is love, respect and vulnerability, relationship. So that's what they need. It's like, it's not it's literally not rocket science, like it's not anything deep that we have to keep looking at every resource out there. That's the basic thing that they need. They want to be connected to their parents. They want to feel like they matter, like they're not this big, annoying, you know, irresponsible person that no one really wants around like they don't. Nobody wants to feel that way,

Casey O'Roarty 33:28
right? So if someone is listening right now and feeling as though either they haven't looked for help before or are ready to maybe change up the experience that they're having. What advice do you have for finding a provider that's going to be the most effective? Because I'm listening to you, but I'm also aware that there are providers who rely heavily on the behavior modification lens, and so what are some things that parents can do when looking for a team of providers for their teenager.

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart 34:02
So I think, because we have so many more resources at our disposal than we ever used to, is that, you know, people think that they keep having to go the traditional route of finding a child psychiatrist or a child psychologist. Now, although I am a psychologist, and I believe that that could there be some benefit to it, you also want to make sure that you're connecting with a provider whose philosophy is in line with your family and cultural values as well too. So I think that whoever you look for, if you're going to look on the psychologist route, for example, is you know, you can go to something someplace like therapy then or Psychology Today, and look for someone in your area who believes in an approach that's beyond just behavior modification, that's more relationally based. And many times I have to actually call and talk to them and ask them those things, what is your approach when working with teens with ADHD and actually ask them that question, right? But in many ways. What might be a more beneficial approach, especially because a lot of us as psychologists, especially if we've been the individual has been licensed for a while, the way that they've been trained is very different than the way that they is in a more traditional approach. So many of them are not going to be doing what we're talking about today. Yeah. So sometimes the sometimes a more effective approach might be actually finding a parent, coach, who is someone who might have the education in terms of the specific training, or they may just have the experience, or both. And so again, it's the same process where you're looking for someone, looking to see what their philosophy is, looking to see what their website or their Instagram talk about, and then making sure that it's kind of along with your philosophy, with regards to looking at your child with ADHD and your team, and then actually, then again, asking them, what is their approach? What do they believe in terms of that and how they can help you? And so I think that's a big part. It's going to have to be a lot of legwork on your part, but it's going to be important to find someone who's going to be a good fit, because this is someone you're going to be sharing a lot of personal information with, and where you want to make sure that you're seeing a good improvement over time.

Casey O'Roarty 36:06
Yeah. And don't be afraid to change it up if you start off with someone and find that it's not a good fit

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart 36:12
exactly.

Casey O'Roarty 36:15
Thank you for the work that you do.

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart 36:17
Yes, thank you. You're welcome. I love it. I absolutely love it. I think it's a towel thing. Yeah, yeah. I love it.

Casey O'Roarty 36:23
Will you share with the listeners where they can find you and follow you?

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart 36:26
Yes, definitely. So I am on Instagram at Dr dot Ann Louise dot Lockhart, so I know there's gonna be a link here as well, too. So Dr Anne Louise Lockhart, and also on Facebook at a new day, pediatric psychology, which is my physicist name, and then my website is www, dot A New Day, S A, as in San antonio.com,

Casey O'Roarty 36:59
all right, friends, Thanks again for listening. I hope you loved that interview. Don't forget you can get the seven tips for connecting with your teens, as well as podcast updates and offers from joyful courage, plus some humorous stories straight from the trenches of my life by joining my email list. Joyful courage.com/email, do it now so we can be even more connected. Also be sure to follow me in all the places I love. Connecting with you on social media, okay, friends, take a deep breath. Ride it into your body, find your balcony seat for perspective and trust that everyone is going to be okay.

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