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Casey O'Roarty 0:06
Hey, what is up podcast, listeners, I am so glad that you have found yourself at the joyful courage podcast this is a place where we celebrate real and raw conversations about raising kids with conscious parenting and positive discipline. I'm your host. Casey o'rourdy, I'm a facilitator. I'm a parent coach. Most importantly, I am a mom of two teenagers, and I am walking the path of more mindful, intentional parenting right alongside of you. Please know that this podcast is created for you. I create it for you and for our community. And if you love it, feel free to share it with all of your family and friends over social media. Let's spread the word. Let's get as many people as possible listening to this show. Please write a review on Apple's podcast, formerly known as iTunes, and join the Patreon community, where parents, just like you, are contributing just a small little amount each month to the show and enjoying perks like monthly webinars and community conversations about the content you hear on this podcast. Check the show notes for links and more details on all of that. I am so, so grateful that you are here and now enjoy the show. Hey, podcast listeners, welcome back. I'm so excited for my very first guest of 2019 Sarah Harvey Yao is a leadership consultant who has developed more than 4000 leaders across the globe. She specializes in helping leaders navigate pressure and stress by staying present in the moment. Sarah is the author of two books, get present and drop in. And her work has been seen on CNN, mind, body magazine, Self Magazine, and King five news. She's also the mother of two teen boys, and can speak firsthand how the skill of presence can transform the parenting experience. And Sarah's gonna tell you all about where you can find her at the end of the show. But I'm just so excited to say, welcome back to the podcast. Sarah, Yay,

Sara Harvey Yao 2:23
thank you. I am very, very pleased to be back, yeah, like one of my favorite podcasters out there. So

Casey O'Roarty 2:31
thanks for having me back. I love that. Please remind the listeners a little bit about how you found yourself doing what you do. Oh,

Sara Harvey Yao 2:39
my work is just just born out of my own personal journey. I just take a big deep breath and as I look back on the years of this, but it long story short, I have found and been invited into really understanding what being fully present is and what it means and how it transforms our experience of life. And so from that it there's quite a bit out there around mindfulness and and meditation, and all of that's a part of my work. And the language I really orient, just personally, to is, is being fully present, being fully present in the moment, fully present to our experience. And I practice every day. This is not a skill you master. It's just something you continue to work with. And parenting has a special way of amping up my practice,

Casey O'Roarty 3:36
just it's special. It is special.

Sara Harvey Yao 3:39
Teenage boys, two teenage boys in the house, 13 and 16. And yes, I practice and I'm learning

Casey O'Roarty 3:47
every day, every day, yeah, yeah. And just to remind you listeners, the last time Sarah was on was episode 68 and many of you refer to that episode often, because it was such a great conversation. We talked about dropping into ourselves, finding our presence, and Sarah, you were also part of the mindfulness mini summit that I did, where you talked with me about meditation. And both of those experiences were really well received by listeners. Today, we're going to talk about naming emotions. I had seen a post because I follow you on Instagram, and you shared on Instagram recently where you wrote, naming feelings opens a doorway for the energy of the emotion to metabolize. And I was so intrigued, just Yes, by naming feelings, because I think that's such an important practice for all of us to be doing for ourselves, as well as our kids, but the language around opening a doorway for the energy of the emotion to metabolize just I just like wanted to marinate in that. So to start tell me about what inspired you to share about the topic of fear. Feelings, and what is it that you mean by the energy of emotion? Yeah,

Sara Harvey Yao 5:05
so emotion is broken down into it's just energy in motion. It it's just energy when there's an emotion, it just we feel it because it hopefully is moving and it is designed to move. It's just energy. That's all it is. We our minds, attach good or bad labels to them. When I'm happy, it's good, when I'm sad, it's bad. But in in reality, it's all just energy. But when we experience the emotions that are less comfortable or less desirable. According to our conditioned mind, we tend to hold them in or contract and stuff. You know, we're familiar with all the ways that we don't feel or we distract ourselves, but really what wants to happen is that they just want to move, and they want to move out of the system. Because when we feel it, we feel an emotion it, then it has some room to move, and then can come out, and then you get to move on with your next experience. But if we're not feeling them, they get stuck and so they can't metabolize. When I say the emotion wants to metabolize, it wants to move, it wants to dissipate. So naming the emotion is one way that we can start to look at it and be with it and allow it, in its own intelligence, to start moving.

Casey O'Roarty 6:42
Yeah, so, so important, right, for parents on the journey, like both as models, but equally as important is as we, as we experience, you know, the challenges that come with raising kids, and it can feel just like a roller coaster. And when I hear you say emotions, they want to be in motion, and they want to move through and out. So I'm it brings me like immediately what comes to mind. And this is something that I hear, especially from the people that I work one on one with, as I'm sure you do as well. You know, it's that the conversation around, you know, I just, I get so angry and I can't shake it off, you know? And I know that experience too, right? Like I'm sitting on my bed and I'm just all the feels, tingling, tension, can't, you know, probably in disbelief for some new and creative way that my children have surprised me by their awesome life choices. And I'm like, okay, oh my god, I'm freaking out. Okay, I know I need to calm down. And oh my gosh, I'm so mad, or I'm so like, is that so in that moment, I feel like, okay, I'm acknowledging, I'm recognizing, but I'm guessing there are some other pieces as well, as far as being my own facilitator of moving that energy of emotion,

Sara Harvey Yao 8:19
yeah, the you're doing great if you're sitting and

Casey O'Roarty 8:24
thank you and

Sara Harvey Yao 8:26
just noticing your own reactions you are, you are well ahead of the game. So, awesome job on that. Oh,

Casey O'Roarty 8:32
good feeling. So knowing we're in it when we're in it, knowing when we're in it, we're

Sara Harvey Yao 8:36
in it, and we kind of take it away from other people, so we don't spew it on other people or or just, you know, have some sort of reaction that we regret later. So I sort of had this image of you in your own bedroom. I've never seen your house, but you in your own bedroom, sort of working your way through it. That that's a great, great first step, like, wow, I'm in it, even saying out loud, just to yourself, or to the, you know, to the dog I am in it right now, even that creates a little bit more space, because what, what you're starting to do is disconnect or just simply observe the experience of being in the emotion. Because sometimes we, our minds, really want to attach meaning. We want to figure out why we want to immediately go into the fix it mode. Or how did I you know, this is a bad reflection of me. There's a lot of places the mind wants to go, but if we stay in the purity of the emotion, if you really, really truly stay with emotion and just are with it and sort of watch it and absorb it. The real intensity of the emotion actually can pass fairly quickly within within about 90 seconds, actually the intensity of the energy. But the problem is, we often feel the intensity and either want to retrieve. Right? Or we get totally sucked into it, and then the mind creates a bunch of story around it, and then we're kind of off and running.

Casey O'Roarty 10:08
So, yeah, I call that the emotional freight train has picked us up and taken us to crazy town. So the intensity, right? The intensity, and is that, and we're on the, you know, the emotional freight train. So is that where you would say, you know, we head into, like, resentment and blame, and is that where we have the opportunity to really hold on and really, like the 90 seconds? Yes, if we are with it, open to it, acknowledging it, then we can get to the other side of it. But is it like really diving into it like you said, um, that's when it just feels like we can't quote, let it go. Is that what you would say? Yeah, it

Sara Harvey Yao 10:57
just um, I should just said, I don't see very many people doing this well, by the way, and I'm not even, I'm not even saying I do this well, oh

Casey O'Roarty 11:06
yeah, me sitting on my bed, everyone that's like, on the best day of my life, right? This is not a normal day where I'm, like, literally collect myself and feel my feelings straight up about this.

Sara Harvey Yao 11:16
But I'm saying there's a possibility that if you really were to just be with, with the experience of the intensity. The intensity passes quickly, if you're not resisting it. So there's, there's, there's the possibility. The reality is, most of us feel, you know, have an emotion we got either emotionally triggered or scared or something angry and and we and we tend to either get taken on a ride, would like you have mentioned in many a podcast before, and I'm suggesting that first for ourselves, that we that naming what you're experiencing may be a great start to working with it. So even even saying, I am so freaking fiery hot right now, maybe you wouldn't use freaking maybe you wouldn't use another word. Or, you know, my my stomach is so tight right now, or I am so scared, and I'm talking just to yourself, saying verbally, getting it out of your body starts, starts it being able to move. But it's when we contain it, we contain our feelings and we contain our words about it, that that it can get stuck.

Casey O'Roarty 12:37
Why do you why do we do that? Why do you think that it's so hard. And I don't know if it's cultural or what, but it seems like I because that's this is something that when we teach positive discipline classes, you know, it's a lot of role playing, and the first question that we ask to parents after an experience is, what are you feeling and, and, and nine times out of 10, the parent wants to say, Well, I feel like I want to, you know, it's not a feeling, it's an it's a thinking, right? It's a thought. And so it's really challenging to and we talk about, well, feelings are one word, and, you know, let's drop a little deeper than frustrated, and it's really challenging for and I'm sure it's just because we don't practice. I know it's because we don't practice. This isn't how we talk to each other. But what else gets in what do you think gets in the way? What do you notice in your practice gets in the way of people really acknowledging how they're feeling. Oh, so

Sara Harvey Yao 13:42
much, so much, much of it has been been through our own conditioning. I mean, if we really think back on how we were raised and what and what the general kind of discourse has been, especially when we were younger. I mean, somehow, let's just say it's in the 70s for me. Yeah, me too. There wasn't much talk of this. It was, I mean, I, what I remember is like, suck it up,

Unknown Speaker 14:12
right? Suck it up buttercup,

Sara Harvey Yao 14:13
or get over it. Or the, you know, very specifically I heard, You're so sensitive. Stop being so sensitive. So there's so many messages about stoicism and containment and and a real insinuation of how very unproductive and non pragmatic feelings can be. And then we've also got some brain science around it. It's It's we just when we have feelings and we're not used to working with them, it's kind of an unknown, and so it tends to kick us into the fight or flight response. So there's oh man, it feels like the odds are stacked against us. But the beautiful thing is, this is very much. Can be a learned behavior for both adults. And kids.

Casey O'Roarty 15:00
Yeah, I love that. And that's, those are the thoughts that I'm hearing. You connect. And I think something that we talk about a lot here on the podcast is it's just because, well, I wasn't, I was conditioned this way, or I have a hard time with emotions, or often what I'll hear is, Well, I ask them, because I, you know, I always invite parents, and I do this myself in my own practice, when we're helping our children navigate challenges, you know, asking them, how does that make you feel? And sometimes parents, you know, they'll bump into their kids saying, I don't know, or they'll say, I'm like my child doesn't like to talk about how they're feeling, and my response is always like, well, keep asking and keep modeling. So even though we might not say, Well, I think it's really powerful to say, Wow, I'm feeling really overwhelmed by my emotions right now, and my belly is tight and my shoulders are tense, I'm going to like out loud, right? I'm going to go in my room and take some breaths and help myself work through this so that I I'll say so that I'm not super mean to you. Awesome. So great again. You know, when I can catch myself, but this is, and I think there's such a powerful modeling, right? That happens both we're training ourselves, but we're also in service to our kids, so that they see, oh, you know, this is a human thing, like emotions and self regulation. It's not all the adults have it together and the kids are freak shows. It's we're all working towards this

Sara Harvey Yao 16:40
absolutely. And I think when we're in emotion or we're in a different part of our brain than the language center, so it's often hard to articulate what we're feeling. That's why in the blog that you saw, I talked about just the really the seven basic emotions, and I've used these with my with my kids and myself, for as long as I can remember honestly that just are you sad? Are you mad? Are you scared? Are you happy? Are you surprised? Are you embarrassed? Are you disgusted? And we would literally just go there. Are you sad? No, okay. Are you mad? Yes, okay, are you scared? I don't know. Are you happy? No, and just kind of go through it's like, okay, well, we've got sad, maybe scared, or no, we've got mad, maybe scared and maybe embarrassed. Okay, great, and it's a doorway, or just looking for the doorway. Oh,

Casey O'Roarty 17:36
I love that. I love that the entry point, right? Yeah, just figuring out, because so often we think we know what's happening with our kids, right that tip of the iceberg, and we could stay there and we forget there's so much under the surface that we get to explore and check our assumptions against, I think, a lot about anger and the Mad emotion, mostly because, you know, I hear all over, you know, you see all over the internet from parent educators and the like saying, you know, here's a webinar to stop yelling, or a 10 day, you know, a 10 day challenge to stop yelling and, and I've even, you know, I have a workshop that I do called more love, less rage, right? And the idea is to navigate this flood of emotion that, you know, floods our body and then comes out of our mouth, you know, not to mention spanking, and you know, kind of the more corporal punishment, but really just focusing on the yelling anger, to me is this powerful emotion that that it's like enticing, because it's powerful, like it it feels like it's leading us into action, but when we dig under the surface, especially considering, you know, parenting teens, but I think also any, really, anywhere you are on the parenting journey, there's also fear and disappointment and embarrassment and disbelief. And it seems like, and I would love your opinion on this, when I think about those emotions, fear, disappointment, embarrassment, disbelief. They feel they kind of, they feel weak. They feel like, like a collapsing in and so in that discomfort, because it's incredibly uncomfortable, right, Anger can kind of swoop in to take over, and we have something we can do something with. Does that make sense?

Sara Harvey Yao 19:44
Yeah, I always talk about anger as a secondary emotion, and I'm sure, have you, have you heard that language before he sends it to me? So it's like the it's like the signal fire, it's like something's going on. Here, general I just made that up. Like, generally speaking, anger is a is a very powerful emotion. It's you're absolutely right. There's energy behind it. And when I experience anger, and I work with my clients on this, it's a sign that your boundaries have been crossed, or there's a sign something deeper is going on. So anger in and of itself, like we could just talk an entire podcast on anger and the power of anger and the importance of anger, and how to use it in a way that's incredibly constructive. Because I love anger. I love it when it comes up for me, because I know I'm on to something good. But most people either get swept away with anger and move into the rage, or they just sort of stop at the anger piece. But anger, remember, it's just, it's just a signal. It's just a sign, something else is down here, a little bit deeper, like you, you know you, you, you obviously talk your clients, take your clients on that journey, but generally under anger. If you peel back several layers, it usually is, is just deep grief or fear,

Casey O'Roarty 21:17
yeah, and that's really hard to be with. Oh,

Sara Harvey Yao 21:20
such courage, such courage, to even explore something beneath the anger. And that's why I think we don't do it very often. It's not modeled well. We don't get we don't have the support for it, but there is that possibility of going beneath the anger, because, man, that's where they're that's where the richness is.

Casey O'Roarty 21:48
Hey, hi friends. Sorry for the interruption, but I wanted to pop in and remind you that the parenting teens with positive discipline. Audio summit registration is open right now. Right now. You can jump over to joyful courage.com/teen Summit, all one word, and you can register for the audio summit that will be going live january 18 through February. 1 listen. You know that I know the struggle of raising teens with positive discipline. Oh my gosh, there's the risky behavior, the drug use, the body image issues, screen time, addiction, what else? Individuation, brain and emotional development, anxiety, depression, school, drama, friendship, drama, sex. I mean, come on, people, what isn't there to deal with during the teen years? And it's hard. It's hard to stand in relationship. It's hard to hold kindness and firmness, especially as we know that before too long, they're gonna be walking out that door and into their young adult life. So I have gathered some of my most favorite friends, colleagues, mentors in the positive discipline world, and we are digging into all the hot topics. All you got to do is register joyful courage.com/teen. Summit. Register and for five days, starting on the 28th you will get emails from me every morning that will get you into that day's interview. So each day, I don't know, you'll get probably three or four interviews to listen to. You'll have the whole weekend to catch anything that you missed. And yeah, you're gonna be really excited, you're gonna feel empowered, and you're gonna have tools to use that will help you develop deeper relationships with your teenagers and support them in developing the life skills that they need to be thriving, contributing, capable, confident members of society. So again, registration is open. Head over to www dot joyful courage.com/teen, Summit. All one word, teen Summit. All right, back to the interview I'm thinking about. So I don't know what happens to me at dinner, but I by dinner time. You know, I always have this expectation, and maybe this is my problem, that we are going to sit down together and have this delightful conversation, and it's going to be great and it and actually, if you were an observer of our family dinners, you would be like, What are you complaining about right now? Because everybody sits down together. We laugh and joke. But no matter not, no matter what it's sometimes it'll kind of spin. And there's this thing that my daughter does that just feels so condescending and so disrespectful. And it's not this big, explosive thing, it's subtle. All, and then I just get triggered. And we're talking about, and I got super bug last night. Just got up. That's what I do. I get up, I'm excused. Go to the go to the sink, do my plate, you know. And Rowan, my daughter, is like, Mom, why are you so triggered by me? You know? Like, this is the, this is the thing of raising kids with positive discipline and mindfulness. She just is like, Whoa, you're super triggered. What's going on? And I'm like, don't you act like you don't know what you're doing and you know exactly what you're doing. And she goes, I have no idea why you're so mad. And I got to, that's the choice point, right? I got to take a step back and either argue with her about whether or not she knew what she was doing when she was doing it, or take the feedback and recognize perhaps, which is something that I say all the time, like they don't they aren't wrapped up in making our lives miserable, like they're way too self centered to be that focused on us. I say that, and yet I live in a way that's like, you make me so crazy and, you know, so I got to kind of lean back and say, you know, it feels like, you know, sometimes it feels like, when we're in conversation that you it just kind of feels like an attack on what I'm saying and really dismissive. And I was able to use really clear language and and cut. And it was interesting, too, you know the emotion? I decided not to jump on the train and go to crazy town. Instead, I stayed with her and expressed myself. And it was amazing how quickly and she came over, she goes, Do you need a hug? Which is such a throwback to when she was a little girl, because, you know, with teenagers, they stop hugging you. And she really, like, not only did she stop hugging us, but she would flinch, not so much anymore, yeah, during the really dark year of freshman year, that's what would happen, the flinching, there's a little tense tensing cup that happens, not such an active flinch. So she came over and she had three, and we moved on. But I think that, you know, like that was one of those things where I felt the anger, but really I felt hurt, you know, and and it quickly manifested into, god damn it, you know, gosh darn it, in my mind. And then, you know, kudos to Rowan for, like, diffusing me, which is not her job. However, she did it really well last night. I love the idea of the signal fire, because it is right, yeah,

Sara Harvey Yao 27:43
I mean, it's just, there's just something else here, there's something else here, and to use the energy, because sometimes when we do get angry, it's because we did get hurt, or some, someone did something to us that is not okay, or we didn't know that was the boundary. But suddenly I do now, I know now, and so there's a fire that can that propel you into speaking and asking for what you actually need. And this is, of course, I'm talking mostly from a functional adult perspective, but with the kids too. I invite them to feel anger. I want them to feel that in their body and then work through how do we want to move it out of your body? That has always been my conversation from as early as I can remember with the kids of great. There's a feeling, there's an emotion going on. It's in your body. How do we want to get it out?

Casey O'Roarty 28:37
Yeah, let's can we role play that? Yeah, so I'm your child, and I just, you know, accidentally broke a toy or something happened, and here I am, and I'm full of anger, and I'm stomping, and I'm so, so mad. So mom I am. I'm just so mad. Yeah,

Sara Harvey Yao 28:59
and, and I like to add physical touch if possible. So let's, let's go. Let's go sit down together. Let's get, let's get on the floor. Do you want to sit on my lap? Can I hold you? There's something about the physical touch that would be nice, so to ask permission, and if it's not okay, it's not okay, and that's totally fine. You can just sit next to each other.

Casey O'Roarty 29:18
Okay, I'll sit next to you. And I'm still so mad. And so what do you say to me? Great.

Sara Harvey Yao 29:22
So tell me about that. Where do you what you say you feel mad. Can you feel what does it feel like in your body? Can you feel something in your

Casey O'Roarty 29:31
body? Yeah, it feels like everything is tight, and I want to

Sara Harvey Yao 29:34
hit Okay. And can you point to where it is? Yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 29:38
and I'm pointing to, kind of my my arms and my shoulders and my chest, okay?

Sara Harvey Yao 29:44
And you want to hit yes, okay, should we? Should we just do that? Do you want to try to hit something? Yes, okay, let's, let's go to the couch and let's, let's stack up those pillows. And you know that wiffle, wiffle, that plastic bat you have? Yeah, go for it. Just go.

Casey O'Roarty 30:01
Think whistle bad. Okay, I'm hitting the pillow. I'm hitting the pillow, and now it feels kind of funny.

Sara Harvey Yao 30:05
And what do you say stuff? What are you mad about, honey, while you're hitting? Just saying

Casey O'Roarty 30:11
mad that I broke my toy and I'm mad that I can't fix it, and I'm mad keep hitting and keep hitting, and now I don't really feel that mad anymore, but I still want my toy to be fixed. Do you think you can help me fix it?

Sara Harvey Yao 30:27
Okay, yeah, let's sit back down. That's awesome. You did so good. You just you felt mad and you got it out of your body. And Do you can you feel a difference on that now? Yes, okay, awesome, job. So now, besides being mad, let's just go through the other feelings. Are you sad? Well,

Casey O'Roarty 30:48
yeah, because I'm not sure, even with your help, if I can fix my

Sara Harvey Yao 30:52
toy. Okay. Are you scared? No, okay.

Casey O'Roarty 30:57
Are you happy? No, but I'm more happy than I was before I hit the couch with my bat.

Sara Harvey Yao 31:04
Okay. Are you surprised? No, okay, embarrassed,

Casey O'Roarty 31:12
maybe a little bit, because I kind of threw a big fit,

Sara Harvey Yao 31:17
okay? And or are you disgusted?

Casey O'Roarty 31:20
No,

Sara Harvey Yao 31:22
okay, so little bit embarrassed and maybe a little bit sad. Yeah, that makes so much sense. Of course, of course, you would feel that way. I would feel sad if I accidentally broke one of my favorite vases or, you know, pieces of jewelry, something I really care about, and you obviously really cared about that toy. So what do you want to do with that? Is that in your body, feeling sad or a little embarrassed? Can you feel that in your body?

Casey O'Roarty 32:01
No, not really. I don't think so

Sara Harvey Yao 32:04
great. I think I feel okay now, all right, honey, what do you need?

Casey O'Roarty 32:10
I want you to look at my toy and tell me if you can help me fix it.

Sara Harvey Yao 32:13
Awesome.

Casey O'Roarty 32:14
Let's go do it okay. That was great. Thank you for playing with me.

Sara Harvey Yao 32:18
Yeah.

Casey O'Roarty 32:19
So now when I think about older kids, right? Because this is always like, Yeah, but Right,

Sara Harvey Yao 32:26
yeah, this stuff's a little easier to do when the kids are younger. But I'm telling you, you put this, this is your foundation, yeah. And actually, love to tell you about, you know, real life story with my son, who is in the sixth grade, and he has just was having a rough year

Casey O'Roarty 32:47
and a rough year.

Sara Harvey Yao 32:50
You remember the year, the years, and I just happened to be sort of puttering upstairs in the hall closet, and I looked in his bedroom and he was face down on his bed. So I came in and said, hey bud, you know what's what's going on. And he just muffled in his pillow. And I spent a little bit of time just mostly in silence with my hand on his back, just being fully present with him, just breathing, just being there. I said, Can we, can we talk about it? And can you flip over so we could talk about it? And I asked him, What are you feeling? And he he really couldn't articulate it. And I, you know, sort of touched on these, like, I'm sad, amen, he's scared, and all he knew was where was in his body, like there was no words for it. And I said, Well, where is it in your body? And he pointed to his chest. And I said, What do you need right now? And he said, I need to cry. And he and I'm like, let's get it out. Let's do this. I'm right here. I've got you and you can, let's get this out of your body, because you know, you feel better when it's out of your body. And so I just put my hand on his chest, and that's all he needed. He just needed to feel a little safety and support and to be, you know, held, and he cried me and he let it rip. And of course, as a mom, I'm just like, oh my god, what my mind is like, what's happening? Oh my god, what happened at school? Oh my god. But mostly, I just kept breathing with him and stayed there. And it did pass in about, you know, about a minute, and then we took some breaths. My good job. You did awesome. You felt a feeling, and you let it go. And now where else is it? And he pointed to his stomach. And I'm like, what do you need? He's like, I need to cry again. Okay, let's go for it. Let's get it out. And I put his hand, and this sobbing was like the full on emotional. A lace like, a harder cry than the first one. And again, it lasted about, you know, under, under a couple minutes that that was a doozy. And then, you know, we just breathe. We're mostly quiet. I was just loving presence for him. And I said, What do you need now? He's like, I just need to be alone. Like you got it. You did awesome. And and I'll be downstairs if you need anything. And there was this beauty of not putting ones to it. I know I wrote a whole post about putting some language around it, but there's also a natural intelligence that these kids have, and we have as adults, we may be a little bit farther away from it, but they're a little bit more in their bodies. Or, I mean, he was still in the sixth grade, and he could just feel it, and sometimes that's all they that's all they need. And they need permission to let it out in a way that's productive. Yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 35:54
yeah. That's really what I heard in your story. Is the deep, safe permission that you gave him, especially our boys, yes, our boys, which they shouldn't, need permission to show emotion. And fortunately, our culture kind of dictates that a bit.

Sara Harvey Yao 36:12
Oh, yeah, but I need more really, yeah, support, yeah, and

Casey O'Roarty 36:17
I thank you for sharing that. I bet that was really one of those that'll stay with you, right? Yeah,

Sara Harvey Yao 36:22
and he's 16 now, and I'm not kidding, he didn't make the mobile jazz band that he really wanted. And we basically went through this exact same thing in, like, the 16 year old version of it, on a walk, right? But I just was there and went like, you know, where is it? What do you feel? And what do you need? And he could, he wanted a little bit more independence, a little more space, but it's it. There's something about it that he recognized this process of like, oh, there's an emotion. I can feel it and let it move,

Casey O'Roarty 36:57
yeah, well, in that common language, and I want people that are listening. You know, there is no closed window to when you can start talking about emotions and feelings, and where is it in your body? Don't think that, you know, if your kids are older, that you somehow missed this opportunity. It simply sounds like, oh my gosh, I learned something new, and I am committed to practicing it, and I'm going to be talking about it. And I hope that you join me, you know, like, just invite your family into what it is that you're learning, because it's important to you. And you know, on the flip side, you're modeling, yeah,

Sara Harvey Yao 37:33
yeah. And just, I mean, a couple of other real time examples came up when my youngest, when he was couple years ago, he lost his favorite little blankie. It was stolen and and he was really, really sad. And he was old enough for me to explain. This is called grief, and so it was a new word. It wasn't the happy, sad man. This is a more you know, he was cognitively ready for another word. This is called grief, and this is, this is what we feel like when we lose anything, we lose a relationship, we lose the loved one, we lose a thing, and there's real deep feelings, and that's called grief. And that helped him orient around, wow, that's what that's called. And then just this last summer, my oldest came back from Costa Rica and was having a whole just a really hard time reassimilating back here, because there was, because he was in Costa Rica,

Casey O'Roarty 38:29
because he was in Costa Rica, in like

Sara Harvey Yao 38:31
sanity of nature and everything, and coming back and like, Yeah, this is, this is called reverse culture shock. This is, like a real thing. This is what happens. I love that, like just any naming of yeah, that what you're experiencing is real, and there's some words for it, and sometimes there aren't, yeah.

Casey O'Roarty 38:53
And Dan Siegel talks about flipping your lid in the brain, in the palm of the hand, and listeners have heard me talk about it, but that's that's another thing that I talk about as well, especially with our littlest kids, but with all of them, but, you know, feeling being in a tantrum or feeling all of this overwhelming emotion can feel really scary. You know, they feel out of control, and that is why I'm always inviting the parents that I work with into teaching their kids about their brain. And like I said, if you go to joyful courage.com/teach, brain, you see there's a couple videos there that highlight this, but it becomes this, like you were talking about, oh, reverse, oh, reverse, culture shock. It's a thing, oh, I flipped my lid like I just dysregulated. It's a thing, you know, and there are steps, and this is a great place listeners, for you to start that foundational conversation around. And there are things that we can do to support ourselves in coming back to a regulated. The brain, and one of them being name it to tame it. That's what Dan Siegel calls it, naming our emotions, as well as where do you feel it, in your body, and all the other things, Sarah, that you were talking about that are so useful. Do you have any? So you see a lot of people in your practice, you know, and for people who are listening that just aren't sure where to begin, even though we've given a couple areas to start any baby steps into this work, and maybe even in the context of perhaps somebody's listening who's thinking about another adult in their life that they want to support with emotional regulation and naming feelings. Do you have any thoughts on on baby steps to build that bridge?

Sara Harvey Yao 40:44
Oh, my God. There's so many resources and books out there. But I think just for me, I'll just come back to my own personal experience is, if we're not present in the in our in in the moment, it's really hard to feel things. It's hard to name things. So I actually always point people back to building a foundation of just being present, a little bit more aware, and then I'm just talking. I am noticing what is happening right here, right now. And that may the baby steps may be, oh, look, I just acknowledge that I am actually having a body sensation. I can actually feel my feet on the ground, or I'm really looking at the people's faces in the room, or I'm just taking a deep breath. So there's for me, the first place I always start is is, let's build little moments of being present throughout our you know, throughout our day, throughout our week. And then it's from there that we can start building and exploring. Maybe we need to build a language vocabulary and on my on the blog post that you saw, I actually link to just a list of feelings, and it's quite an, quite an extensive list of feelings and body sensation, which I love. When I saw a similar list being put together from the Huffman Institute, I loved it, because how many times we just don't have that much language for

Casey O'Roarty 42:20
it, right?

Sara Harvey Yao 42:22
So maybe that people want a new vocabulary for it, or it may just be, I'm just gonna practice feeling what I'm feeling, and I don't even have to talk to anybody about it. Or maybe I just want to journal it out, or maybe I want to run it out, but the practice and not denying what is happening

Casey O'Roarty 42:44
that's so good and listeners, don't worry. The link to this blog post that Sarah's referring to will be in the show notes, absolutely. So you can check it out as well. Ah, I could talk to you for like, three more hours. I

Sara Harvey Yao 42:56
know. Keep talking. Great.

Casey O'Roarty 43:02
It's so good. And like, you know, just coming back to that whole parenting as a personal growth and development workshop that never ends, right? Gosh, so in the context of parenting and, you know, naming our emotions and how we're feeling, what does joyful courage mean to you? Sarah,

Sara Harvey Yao 43:24
well, the courage to try something new, and if that's new to I'm going to try new parenting technique. If that means I'm going to sit with a feeling instead of stuffing it, I'm actually going to say something instead of not saying something, any new behavior, to me is deep, takes deep, deep courage. And from when we when we take those leaps into courage, for me, it is always ends up being really joyful, like there's such an empowered, you know, a sense of empowerment, and it leads to new opportunities or new kind of directions that I might not have known about if I hadn't been courageous. So those two words fit so beautifully together that it's just joyful courageousness when we when we try something new. Thank

Casey O'Roarty 44:19
you. How can listeners find you and follow your work? Yes,

Sara Harvey Yao 44:23
I probably my website would be great. It's got lots of resources, links to books and blog posts and some audio recordings of just helping people drop into the present moment too.

Casey O'Roarty 44:37
Love it like guided meditations. Yes, yes. Perfect, four minute one

Sara Harvey Yao 44:41
and a 10 minute one. I love it. And that's at Yao consulting. That's y, a o consulting.com or on LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram. It's under Sarah S, A, R, A, Harvey, H, A, r, v, e, y. I and Yao, y, A, O,

Casey O'Roarty 45:02
yay, and listeners, all of those links will be in the show notes, so you can find your way to Sarah through there. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for coming back and coming on and being in conversation with me. I appreciate it

Sara Harvey Yao 45:15
such a joy. Thank you for having me.

Casey O'Roarty 45:21
Joyful courage community. Thank you so much for tuning in each and every week. Big thanks and love to my team, including my producer, Chris Mann at pod shaper. Be sure to join the discussion over at the live and love with joyful courage group page, as well as the joyful courage business pages on Facebook and Instagram. Subscribe to the show through Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google Play. I Heart Radio, really anywhere you find your favorite podcasts. Also, I mentioned Patreon at the beginning of the show. Check it out, www.patreon.com/joyful courage. This is where you can contribute to the show and take advantage of patron perks like content rich monthly webinars and deeper discussions about what's being shared on the podcast. You will like it. Www, dot P, A, T, R, E, O n.com/joyful. Courage. Any comments or feedback about this show or any others can be sent Casey at joyful courage.com I personally read and respond to all the emails that come my way. So reach out. You can also sign up for my bi weekly newsletter at joyful courage.com just go to the website. Sign up for that. Take a breath, drop into your body, find the balcony seat and trust that everyone is going to be okay. Big Love to each and every one of you have a beautiful rest of your day.

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