Eps 140: Documentary Filmmaker, Delaney Ruston, is on Talking About Screens and Our Kids

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Transcription

Casey O'Roarty 0:00
Music. Hey everybody, welcome to the joyful courage podcast, a place for information and inspiration on the conscious parenting journey. Conversations you'll hear on this show are all intended to offer you tools for moving forward, expanding your lens and shifting your narrative to one of possibility, connection and empowerment. When we bring deep, listening, acceptance and courage to our relationships, we are doing our part to evoke it in the world. I am thrilled to partner with you on this path. Welcome listeners. My guest today is Dr Delaney Rustin, documentary filmmaker, physician and mother to two teenagers. Today, we're going to talk about her work with a movie she created called screenagers and how to support our kids. Delaney decided to make screenagers because she believes deeply in the importance of helping kids find balance in our tech filled world. She is passionate about having the film be a vehicle to bring parents, educators and kids together for post screening discussions show change can happen, not just in our homes, but in our schools and communities. She loves engaging audience in solution centered discussions. Yay, and is excited that her daughter, Tessa, who is in the film, enjoys being a part of these discussions as well. Last fall, I went to see screenagers with my son, and I am so excited to talk more with Delaney about the challenges of parenting in the age of smartphones. Hi Delaney, welcome to the podcast.

Delaney Ruston 1:37
Hi Casey. It's so great to be here. Thank you. Yeah. Please

Casey O'Roarty 1:40
share a little more with listeners about how you've found yourself doing what you do. Well,

Delaney Ruston 1:45
I got interested, actually in documentary filmmaking for change because, in part, as a physician, I was shocked when I was in medical school, we used no film or video at all to convey emotions and stories that could really impact our training and make guests, you know, more compassionate caregivers. And I had grown up in Berkeley around some documentary filmmakers, and I was really, you know, I was really empowered by how films can start to get people to think differently and change behaviors. So I started doing filmmaking in my residency in San Francisco. And luckily, there was a lot of places that I could take filmmaking on my nights that I wasn't in the hospital. And I had mentors, you know, people that I was following, whose personal documentaries are what really inspired me. Like, the more personal, the more universal I found it to be, and the more I really said, Wow, maybe I can change around this issue, or environmental issues, or, you know, maybe I can do something. And so that got me hooked, and it's been about 20 years now that I've been doing films always and only because it's about so much more than the film. It's really about the cause that I'm approaching in the film. I love that. Yeah, originally, you know, I've been working a lot on mental health documentaries. My father, when I was growing up, had schizophrenia, and no one really talked to me about the illness, and so I created a film by which I reconnect with him and I look at the issues around mental health. And that really launched me into years of mental health advocacy and documentary films around mental health. And the thing was, I was doing all of this, and then I just started to notice like the tension in our home was getting harder and harder, and I realized that there was, you know, at that point, it was these laptops in our house, and, you know, kind of the tension happening. And I said, Wow, what is going on? And this was about five and a half years ago, and I just said, I could see the writing on the wall. There were two things that were so clear, even at that moment, even before, you know, most kids didn't have cell phones. I saw that that was going to happen, that digital was going to be completely portable in a way that we had never anticipated. And then also homework, and schoolwork was going to be done on computers, particularly homework as a parent, how do you manage that constant shuffle back and forth, and then the realities of of the cell phones at the time. So I really wanted to understand, as a physician, kind of, what was the impact, but as a mom, I was completely at a loss what to do. And so whenever I'm feeling anxious or at a loss, that's really when I when I've picked up my camera in the past, and so this was exactly what I did at this moment into time. Well,

Casey O'Roarty 4:45
I'm so glad that you did your movie is so well done, and I really appreciate that it didn't leave me with feelings of alarm. It actually left me feeling like, Okay, we. Can do this, we can handle this, we can be a team around this. And I also have to say that I really appreciated how real your own struggles with your daughter with the cell phone were presented. So thank you for that, because, you know, I feel like we definitely ebb and flow over here with that, my daughter is 15, my son is 12, and I'm just, well, we'll get into it in a little bit, but I'm really excited about this conversation. It's really timely. So let's start a little bit and talk with the science. How are what have you found in your work? How the screens that the kids find themselves in front of? I'm thinking, again, mostly about smartphones affecting their brains. What's happening with the science?

Delaney Ruston 5:44
Well, the most definitive work around brain is really around images when kids are particularly young adults are very addicted to video games, and that's been really consistent to show brain changes that are consistent with people who have addiction to drugs, alcohol and whatnot, where we can see certain gray matter being reduced so the more active part of the brain is being basically. It's hard to interpret exactly, but there are significant changes and the realities around, okay, well, how is the changes happening for cell phone use in kids? It's hard to, you know, we're always kind of trying to find these big answers. What I think, what I worry about, even as a physician who spends five years now deep in the data, what I worry about is the the micro impacts that are having. So we can try to put all the data together and say it's impacting kids and that they're not learning communication skills. Well, we're never going to be able to say that, because clearly, many kids are right. The reality is, though, is you, yeah, as you can definitely have a young person, 11 and 12 year old who finds it difficult, unlike another 11 or 12 year old to you know, have a conversation on the courtyard. So it's really easy for them. Let's say in middle school, where they're able to in their school, for example, maybe they're able to use their phones at break. Then they are going to avoid all those types of interactions which are exactly what they need to overcome, that difficulty, that initial difficulty, of having a conversation, of putting yourself out there. So that's what I'm really interested in, that we look at each of our kids individually and to see what those impacts are for them. You know, there's lots of good with social media where kids they, you know, the studies show they feel good actually when they post about themselves. Now, that said, there's a ton of anxiety that goes around that particular post you're going to put on Instagram. Some kids are just, you know, some are just a fine they put a whole bunch. Some like my daughter, will spend, you know, several days thinking about it, lamenting that she hasn't posted in a couple of weeks, but also not wanting to have to kind of do it. And she gets really torn about it, you know, am I? Do I exist? Am I on Instagram, or do I not? And then when she kind of creates that picture, she'll go first to her friends, you know, what do you guys think of this picture? You know, can I put this up? But then ultimately, when they do put that up, they're going to get this kind of, you know, engaging feedback that feels good to them. So I think again, it's that dissection that makes this why having the conversations continually are so important, because it is so nuanced. Oh, I

Casey O'Roarty 8:41
love that you just said that having the conversations regularly is so important and coming back to it. And sometimes I feel like my kids, they see me coming from a mile away, and they're like, Okay, here we go. Mom's coming in with another big talk. But you know, Oh yes, I am. And and, you know, I got called out last night at our family meeting and talking about this by my kids who said, Well, you're more, you're the same, if not more, addicted to your phone, mom. And, of course, all of my defenses went up. I wanted to say, Well, I do a lot of work. Yeah. I mean, it was just so it was all the things that bug me about trying to talk to them about their use, were coming out of, you know, or at least coming to the surface for me, and it really gave me pause. And even this morning, as I did my little morning Monday, let's create some goals for the week. You know, I really decided, okay, you know what? This week, if it's true that I work a lot on my phone, then I'm putting my phone away when it is not my work hours and feeling into that and seeing how that feels. But

Delaney Ruston 9:50
Casey, let me, let me back up and just say something that I really spend a lot of time with audiences. I worry about the idea of modeling as a. General approach as a physician, you know, whenever we kind of, you know, behavior change is what I do. I'm a primary care physician. So, you know, 50% of, if not higher, of the people that I'm seeing in clinic. So much of what we're talking about is behavior change, whether that's, you know, are they regularly taking the diabetes medicine? How is there? What kind of physical therapy are they doing for back pain? How is the nutrition element of their life related to their cardiac illness or prevention? And if I go into that with saying, okay, you know, I just want you to eat better, that's just that's never gonna work, right there. It's a setup for failure. And I think for parents, that that kind of messaging that we that we kind of put out there, is concerns to me about a message, the message, because it's really an unattainable goal. So I've been really clear with people that I think something can be really effective. Is to pick one just start with one simple change. Change is never simple. One change you want to make. And the real growth is when you talk about that with your kids and that you show them your journey in trying to make that change first. Just, you know how you come to that idea? You know you're being vulnerable like, Oh, this is hard. I don't know how to do this. I'm going to try and, you know, I went to this resource and that then, you know, showing your progress. Do you have setbacks? Now, I'll give you an example. I have told my kids that on Tuesday night after dinner, I'm not going on screens, and I purposely have told this to audiences. I'm telling it to you now, in part, to hold myself accountable, because it is amazing how hard it is to stick by that. But I also feel really motivated because I it makes me go in the living room, which I never do. It makes me pull up a book. It makes the kids know that, you know, I'm really kind of relaxed and not trying to multitask. So the benefits are big, but the challenge continues to be to be hard. So I would, I would kind of challenge you with that, you know, maybe just pick one thing that you could, could decide to do where you're not using tech as you normally would, yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 12:15
Ooh, I like that, and it's already coming to mind for me that I'm going to play with that, and I'm going to report listeners, I'm going to report out how that looks. And I love and I and I'm right there with you. I And in so many other areas, I'm always telling clients and members of my community how important it is to be transparent about your own journey. And so yeah, recognizing the defensiveness that came up inside of me last night. That's something that I really want to share with the kids, and I'm planning on sharing with them so that they can start to see that it's not just a struggle for them, and I think that's probably why I'm so hypersensitive around their use is because I know that I am being challenged as well.

Delaney Ruston 13:00
So interesting. Yeah. And, you know, I think that the reality of why they it makes perfect sense. You know, what I part of with a film. The whole goal was to really have these ongoing discussions. So for two years now, I've had a weekly blog called Tech Talk Tuesday, which is all about a new kind of research or a topic that the idea is to bring up at the dinner table with your family, maybe not on Tuesday, but just, you know, a small topic. But the key, the absolute, most important thing about it, is starting with something positive about technology. And the reason I say that is that the brain has a really hard time holding two opposite truths at the same time, and it's particularly hard for kids and teens, so for them to know that we still think tech is great, even though we're concerned about all the time and what they're seeing on it and ever they have a really hard time truly believing that we also think there's good things. And so their brain is so primed for defensiveness, right? They just really don't believe it. And so starting to change family dynamics, where the conversation begins with, hey, what's something cool happened in your life around technology and and my kids, now are trained like that. They'll say, oh, there's this, you know, new app that I love, where I saw this great photo, or there's a this viral meme that's funny going out. I was entertained by it. And then we men, and then we often go into the Tech Talk Tuesday. You know, might be a research study. It might be, you know what? What's happening with Instagrams, you know, is this a really negative thing, or is it nice, because you create your own inner circle, so it's and ultimately, I mean, this is the most important thing we do, because we are raising us. We are raising the parents right of their kids, so the more deeply we get them thinking, as you know, you know, earlier on. And and these short conversations that they'll engage in is important because it's hard to get them in to engage. I don't want to just say, Oh, it's great, and they sit down and they want to just talk about it, particularly if there's been, as is the case, and 30% of homes daily fighting around technology. You know, change conversation can really take some work.

Casey O'Roarty 15:19
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I, and we, we have a tool that we talk about in positive discipline, which is connect before correct, or connect before redirect. And that's really what I'm hearing you speak into, is connecting around what it is that is new and different and exciting in technology, and then moving into, hey, this is something new that I've learned, and I want to know what you think about it. I think it's so respectful to present things that way, and, and, and it is messy. It's not so thank you for saying that, because it's not that your kids are like, Oh, Thanks for Thanks for that new piece of research, mom, right? And like, like you said, 30% of families are really struggling with this, or more. Or, you know, some of us more than others, or depending on the time of day, day of the week, and we can get ourselves into that place where it starts to feel like a trap anytime we want to talk about technology. So I would also encourage people, as you're listening to Delaney talk about this is to maybe just have a few conversations about the positives before you even bring in anything that would counter, just to kind of prime and nurture that space so that they really are trusting, that we are embracing, that there are some there's positives around technology as well, and that it's not just a trap to tell them to get off their phones. Yeah, everything feels great right now,

Delaney Ruston 16:47
absolutely, you know, I think that's a great you know, if we were to kind of create a road map, I think, you know, talking positive, but not overly so they're believing you you know, authentic, and then you know, and within that, maybe the next step is, you know, play the video game with your kid. It's amazing how few parents ever do, right? Or, Hey, can I don't ask to see their social media, per se, you know, if there's already a negativity, because they're really defensive sometimes about that, it's their world. Oh, yeah. But you know, as, let's, you know what funny videos, or what you know what was, let's watch the halftime game, whatever the you know, just something together, right? You might be something you don't really do again, embracing technology. And then, you know, the third step, I just thinking this through with you, Casey, because your work and in positive discipline, is, is impacted me, is and vulnerability is, maybe, just to have them say the things start off with, the things that bother them about your technology? You know? And I often start off my talks with, you know, how many of you think your parents? I mean, the beauty of the film is it's for parents and students, and so there's a real mixed audience. And how many of you feel your parents are on devices too much, and three quarters of the hands depends on the age of the students will go up and in my whole work about this isn't us versus them, etc, it's us all working together on this. And I think it could be a really cool opportunity to say, what is it about my technology use that you think is just not effective? You know, it whether it's our relationship or whether you see how I interact with Dad, if there's a dad or, you know, or other things. And just to really bring that on, and then to listen, as you're the expert at and to, you know, reflect back and then and just drop it, don't say anything else till, you know, a few days later, say thank you. And then to do that kind of work where we're talking about picking one thing as a parent to possibly change.

Casey O'Roarty 18:45
One of the things that came up last night in the conversations that the kids were very unimpressed by me is the fact that I can't be texting someone while also having a conversation with my children.

Delaney Ruston 18:58
I don't know how people text. I mean, I love texting, okay, but I can't speak or do type. I do

Casey O'Roarty 19:09
both, but I do tell if the kids approach me and I'm in the middle of it, I'll, I'll just say, let me finish what I'm doing, and then I'll be with you. And it's so irritating to them that I can't continue to do what I'm doing while I'll while not, you know, connecting or listening to them at the same time. Now, even as I say that, I realize probably low urgency level most of the time on that text, I could put the phone down and connect with them. But I love i Yeah. I love it. I love asking the kids, what is your experience of me and recognizing it as an opportunity for me to listen, to gather information, to practice, not getting defensive right to practice, not trying to talk them out of how they feel, but to really take it in. So

Delaney Ruston 19:55
yeah, and you know, what's amazing to think about, think about it. They could easily be. Eight, you know, 18, and never have had anyone invite them or feel safe to give feedback, right? So we really, we really are the practice zone for them of how, how wonderful and important that is. I always say that we are absolutely perfect human beings if we were alone on a desert island, our imperfections absolutely only come about with our interactions with others. So it's a completely subjective types of feelings that we're having of what's effective or not, the way that people interact and so how we take away that kind of judgment, as opposed to just what's working or not, or this is my experience, right? You can get to such a deeper understanding and better connection if there's that comfort and ability and that experience of just, of giving, kind of unload, you know, not loaded feedback. You know, I wanted to something you said just reminded me of a study. I think it's so important. There's, you know, there's this idea of us parents on our devices, and I'm so glad we're talking about this. There was a study done by a professor, zestman, and what he did was he had toddlers and preschoolers come in to this study site with their parent, and they asked the parent to be doing like, kind of just like a puzzle. And the and their kid, their toddler in preschool, was just preschoolers, just kind of playing around. And unbeknownst to them, they were studying how that parent was interacting with those kids, and what they found is that for the toddler, the parent didn't really shorten their interaction if the toddler came kind of interrupted. But with the preschooler, they found that the parent was more abrupt, more critical, and less, you know, engaged when that child wanted to, you know, show them something or ask a question or interact. And this minimal parenting, it's referred to is, is really concerning the fact that we have devices now with us so often, clearly. I mean, you know, parents would have done that when they were watching TV. And, you know, there's all these things, but the fact that we now have them when we're just kind of out on a walk and things like that, it is concerning that messaging the way, particularly with younger kids, that they're going to be experiencing parents who are, you know, often distracted on our devices. It's something for us to think about. I think I'm going to share that study in a Tech Talk Tuesday. I haven't done that yet, but I want us to really think about these interactions so important well. And

Casey O'Roarty 22:52
I think that it also, I mean, I have no study or scientific backing around this claim, but you know, when I think about kids that are, you know, learning to walk right we I was just speaking about this in a talk I gave. We don't find ourselves getting frustrated that it takes them so long. You know, as parents, every time they get up on those wobbly legs, it's a celebration, and even when they fall down, it's a celebration. And it's so interesting how as our kids get older, as our children get older, there's less room for that. There's less room for or perceived room for that patient. So that you know that that space of encouragement, and it's definitely more like you can you can do it. Come on, why aren't you doing it? You did it yesterday. Now I'm frustrated with you. You're just trying to manipulate the situation that and I wonder too, with those parents of toddlers versus preschoolers as they get older, and our expectations sometimes shift inappropriately, right? We have this perception that they should be able to XYZ, and whereas toddlers, well, they're just toddlers, so of course, we're gonna be there and interact and so then, you know, move ahead 13 years and they're 15, or they're 16, or they're 17, and, you know, well, you can wait, and I don't need to be as engaged, even though, oh, man, they need us to be engaged, yeah, but they don't need a helicopter. Like, God, it's just this. Like,

Delaney Ruston 24:18
I mean, what? What's happened is the psychology is just creating a tsunami of problems. Because as parents are often on their devices and are feeling this kind of uncomfortableness, right, that, Oh, I just as a parent, I'm feeling a little therefore I feel bad to set limits around my kids and their screen time. So we've gotten into this vicious cycle, and it's been really, you know, the passion of my being on this planet at this moment in time is to say, as much as anyone will listen, that there are hundreds of studies that. Show that kids who have limits that are done effectively and lovingly by parents do significantly better that when compared to when families are just passive and permissive and saying, no, no. What do you think? Okay, you decide your rules. Or, of course, not, you know, not a parent who is authoritative, authoritarian, and then just, you know, demanding that certain rules be the case and not being loving and not listening. So it absolutely applies to screen time that creating these environments where we get to connect with our kids very much means that we need to sense, you know, set some specific limits with them, and we can't continue to feel kind of mixed about it. Or, well, I'm on my device, and therefore, who am I to have them? Or, you know, they just need to learn this. Is what I hear all the time. They just need to learn this on their own. You know, the tech is going to be in their life. So, yeah, that, you know, give the, give the elementary school kid a phone that they can bring to school, and they just need to figure out how to keep it in their pocket. Like, no, you're setting that kid up for failure. You're setting up the kid to think, I'm addicted. Oh, well, I'm just gonna, you know, I just need using it all the time. So it's that's so much of the work is explaining the science and the developmental stage where they're at and then handing them too much that they can't do the self control. And then they actually you're defeating the exact skill you want them to gain. They're more likely to think, I don't have self control, and then become to have a fixed mindset about that, then you are about teaching them to have self control on them going, Oh yeah, I'm really good with this, even though 10 of my friends right now are Snapchatting me and I don't mind that. I'm going to let them down because, you know, I need to do self control. Forget it. You're going to feel awful if you don't respond to your friends and they think you're a jerk and you know, you're missing out on some cool thing that's happening right after school, if you don't quickly check,

Casey O'Roarty 27:03
yeah, well, and I think that that is so powerful, what you just said, and we are in it right now. So hey, everybody, just popping in with this month's promo. I'm super excited to let you know that the joyful courage Academy is open for enrollment. So if you've been on the fence, if you've been listening to this podcast and feeling like, yes, yes, yes, this information lands for me. I get this lady I love what she's all about, then I'm gonna invite you into investing in the work the joyful courage Academy is a five week program. Each week, we will be together through webinars and live Q and A's, you will find yourself engaging in meaningful practices, both for the internal experience of parenting as well as the external experience, I'm going to offer you tools and strategies for being with your family in a way that cultivates more love, more presence, more connection, helping you to speak your truth, to be in your body, right? It's going to be amazing, and I really want to have you there. So if this is at all peaking your interest, please head on over to my website, joyful courage.com/academy. Go to joyful courage.com/a. C, A, D, E, M, y, and you're going to get all the details about this program. We start April 30. Okay, we start April 30, so you gotta get registered by then, I am so excited to meet you there. We are gonna do amazing things, and you are going to level up your experience of parenting and this crazy journey of raising kids. And I just am honored to get to support you. All right, yay. I want to always be transparent with my listeners. So something that we are practicing, and one of the things I actually learned from you Delaney, which is screen free cars. My daughter is in Driver's Ed. Oh, God, I drove with her for the first time on Saturday. She did great. My whole inner landscape was on fire, but I also managed to be really supportive and encouraging. So screen free cars is a big one, and it's just so lovely, just the entire vibe of the car shifts. And I told the kids, you don't have to be like having deep and engaging conversations with me, you can sit and do nothing and yay, give your brain a break, like look out the window. You know, the other thing that we're on our second week of is five to seven. Having five to seven in the evening be a screen free time, and they can help making dinner. It's usually when dinner time happens. Bins, but that so and every week we have a family meeting, and we and we check in on how's that feel. One thing that I would love to hear your take on, one thing that is new and different, and I feel super uncomfortable about, is that my daughter so up until about a three weeks ago, her you know, the rule was, you know, the phone is off and plugged in in the hallway or in my room at a certain time. And so she requested changing that, and she has a whole system where she puts it on she has do not disturbed, already dialed in on her phone, and she puts it on airplane at nine o'clock at night, and she puts it across her room, and I just feel like, Oh, God, that's not the right thing to do. I know that I was it's not supposed to be in there, and how will I know? And all my head spins out, and it's definitely a place where I get to lean into trust. And, you know, and she's pretty adamant about it, and she keeps saying, I like to sleep. So we're doing it on a as a week by week basis, where we check in each, you know, at the family meetings. How is that working for you? Do you feel like you're getting enough sleep? Are you? You know, and ultimately, I get to trust that she is being honest, and it's really hard, and I would love, what is

Delaney Ruston 31:26
she saying that the reason is that she wants it in the room.

Casey O'Roarty 31:30
She just wants it in her room. She just says, Mom, I get to practice, you know, turning it off, and I get, you know, she uses it as an alarm, which she has alternative. She doesn't have to use it as an alarm. But I think for her, it just feels well, she, what she has said about taking it out of her room is, I just feel like such a baby that you make me do that. Yeah,

Delaney Ruston 31:50
do all of you keep it out of the room? And I know, and you know. And why is that? I mean, it's not, you know, just, I mean, just to think about it, for you guys, that might be the, that might be the compromise that you make, that you look at the data and you say, You know what, for teens, for kids in particular, the data is clear. Just having the devices, even if you don't check it, is impacting sleep, and they don't even understand exactly why. I think part of it, though, and because I've seen this over and over, is that kids will actually wake up earlier to check it than they would if it wasn't in the room. There is just a kind of a psychological thing. The other thing is, now it might be going really great for her, but when that new boyfriend comes, or some other new drama, I know. So setting it up where it's just, you know what? It's just out of the room. My you know you can do it. They can do it. It's not about trust. It's not about baby. It's about sleep hygiene. Sleep is supreme. It. It can impact emotional well being. 25% increased chance of symptoms of depression. Who for kids who are going to bed at around 12 or greater when they have done specific studies? Now, clearly sleeplessness can come as a result of depression, don't get me wrong, but all of the factors that we can help to control in this very intense brain development and social situation, it is really key. And also for your as a mom, for your mental well being, yeah, I don't think you really want to every night kind of go, Is she really, I mean, maybe

Casey O'Roarty 33:30
I don't, and it's in your spot on it's like, it is hard for me to to get to sleep because I'm, like, I was, you know, I find all sorts of reasons to just pop in. She knows exactly what I'm doing

Delaney Ruston 33:44
exactly, and so it's actually the idea of exactly when we set up situations that aren't really conducive to true to trust, it can actually undermine the whole idea of sharing trust, right? And trust is about trust and verify. But if it's such a situation where it's easily an infraction can happen, then the Verify can actually undermine the trusting.

Casey O'Roarty 34:10
Yeah, all right, so

Delaney Ruston 34:12
just tell her. Dr Ruston said, sorry. But also remind yourself, you know, and as you do to your listeners all the time, that you're showing her all sorts of other ways that you trust her. So, you know, they might be something where she has to feel like she's a little kid, if that's how she wants to do it. But, you know, there's many, many teenagers who who leave their phones out of their bedroom. The funny thing is, is it's exactly why screenagers still can only be seen in community screenings, because kids love to say, Oh, they don't. No one else has rules. Parents don't know, you know, we're always a little hesitant, like even you today, it was like, you know, we're a little hesitant to say our rules because we just feel like I'm am I being too lenient, or am I being too helicopter? Right? Yeah, so that I. Idea of letting her know. Or, you know, the Tech Talk Tuesdays is all about this that, you know, 1000s, millions of people are leaving technology out of the bedroom at night is is key for teens to know. To reset that norm

Casey O'Roarty 35:16
is very important. All right, I'm doing it. I'll let you know how it goes.

Delaney Ruston 35:22
Let her know in three in three years, she can sleep with like, 15 screens all on top of her every night. Oh, my gosh, yes, yes, it's true, yeah, but yeah, you're setting up patterns that you think are most conducive and that you're recognizing that you want to try to keep it out of your bedroom. You know, by the time you go to bed, to keep it out of there. Yeah. I mean, you can decide that, but you know, it might be, it might be worth it.

Casey O'Roarty 35:47
Yeah, it is. It is worth it. And I know that a lot of my listeners, you're, you're sitting there and you're thinking ahead and you got younger kids. So Delaney, can you talk a little bit about and, and I feel like I you've touched on some of this, but you know, as we as our kids are moving towards middle school into high school, but maybe some of the listeners have younger kids, what are some kind of tried and true guidelines, boundaries, things to be thinking about with young kids so as to set the stage for more ease and cooperation as they get older, even knowing that you know, more ease and cooperation is not the same as ease and cooperation we want. There's no magic wand here. But how can we set ourselves up as parents so that the battles don't feel so intense.

Delaney Ruston 36:43
Well, first and foremost, it's, it's, it's being humble and vulnerable as as a parent, it is starting right away to talk with other parents about guidelines and limits they want to have. So if your kids are actually, you know, going to each other's houses and that whole issue of, well, they want to go to that house because they're going to play video games the entire time. There is some real opportunity to be vulnerable as a parent and call them up and say, hey, could we switch? Can we say this time, there's not going to be video games, and then next time at my house? So that's an example. Or can we have a screen free carpool? Or, you know, there's the wait until eight movement, which is about waiting until eighth grade to get phones. Maybe you and your community, or at least you and one friend, decide you're going to delay it. I'm not advocating a certain age, you know, every family has to figure that out, but I'm saying that people are coming together in community. So love that that vulnerability to create the community is so important first and foremost. And the other thing, I would say is to set a few rules and really work hard to explain why, and then be adaptable as time goes on. And for us, it's three main areas. It's sleep time, study time and family time. And for sleep time, the devices are out of the room. Tessa, now she's in 10th grade, and at nine to 915 she hands her phone over. And it's funny, because she's, you know, she's going through some stuff at school and some drama stuff. And part of me says, just keep the phone out. And part of me she was having a hard time stopping with it where I was just putting in my pocket until she was really asleep. It's not that I don't want to really kind of test her quote, self control and trust and all of these things. When the pull to the device is so hard and frankly, often they're just relieved that they have to just say, Oh, my parent takes it from me every night, so you know you're gonna have to. So she turns that in Chase. My 18 year old, when he was a senior, he would still leave it out of his room. That just is completely his habit, and we do as parents as well. For study time, it's been a question of working with our kids you know, to become mindful. How do they study well, this data shows that kids, middle schoolers, high schoolers and college schoolers, college kids, switch tabs about every six minutes, whether that's going to their phone or a tab. Now that's on average, everyone does different things, but how can we help them to stay focused and then take breaks? So I would have the kids, when they're younger, devices in the other room, for example, and then try to go 2020 minutes or 30 minutes, and then talk about it and either come to me to get their device right and take the break, or as they get older, they're moderating that, but trying working with them to come up with effective study habits. And it's not just the phone or switching tabs, right? It's talking about, okay, do you make a list first, and how do you do toss them off? Do you start with the hardest thing and even just tell yourself you're gonna do that hard thing for 10. Minutes and you're going to put it away. So I work the big picture. And then finally, for family time, we when we do get to have meals together, we have our devices away. And when we go out for a day, we really try to not be on them. And I've really worked with my family to say hey to my teenagers, you know, if you need to check it, you know, if there's something going on. And often, my daughter will just leave her phone at home so that she won't be distracted by it. I think let's just try as much as we can to say, Hey, I'm going to check my phone for a sec. And that way, as a parent, I don't feel like she might just be going on to some wrong conversation. I don't know where she's going right now with that. Does she think it's just downtime, and she's, she wants to just be on it for 20 minutes. And so, you know, really from people kind of tease me, like everyone like, Okay, you're always constantly going, oh, excuse me, I have to check my phone, you know. But it does. It does create a a better environment when we are all together, and someone just says, Hey, I'm just gonna make a quick call, or I just got to check this one thing. And we don't always do it, but I'm really happy that my kids tend to do that. I think it's a really nice digital etiquette.

Casey O'Roarty 41:09
Oh yeah,

Delaney Ruston 41:10
the three main things, yeah.

Casey O'Roarty 41:13
Oh, I love that. That's I appreciate that. So if there's a parent listening who has an older child, and they've just kind of given up, and now they're realizing, wow, I've got to rein this in. What are some small steps that they could be taking? What would you say would be just the first step for them?

Delaney Ruston 41:34
Well, I often say the first step is getting a sense of how much people are doing screen time and how much they're doing other stuff. For me, you know, screen time really is, is not that it's so damaging in itself, like, you know, there's studies to show attention can be, you know, negatively impacted and things like that. And that's all true, but really, a lot of screen time is a marker for all the other known protective and growth experiences that are being denied. So I think it's really a great exercise just to start with in a really, you know, very calm voice, let's all just kind of take a week history. Okay, how well in this past week, how much did we help with the stuff that has to happen in the house? And everyone writes, you know, things that they do, okay, how much? You know, maybe not start with that one that's a little charged, but you know, how how much did we study? You know, they're studying a lot, and they kind of calculate that. How much did we do social media? How much did we say hi to any family members, or reach out to any kind of teacher or any other human face to face connection. And then, and the interesting thing, you can also say, you know, how much time did you spend on your phone, you know, with games or whatever. And then you obviously, if you know, if you have an iPhone, you can just go in, at least from the last time it was charged, you can actually go in and see what it says of your of the amount of time you spent on different things, but I think that's a really just good way, because ultimately, you know, they're going to have to decide in their lives how they're going to want to divide things up. Something that really impacts older kids when they see screen majors is you might recall, you know, we visit a rehab center for young men who are having video game addiction issues. And there's this wonderful young guy, Andrew, and he's, unfortunately, got a scholarship to college, and then he flunked out because he just became even more the stress of college and all of the you know, having to meet new people when he's been living in high school, just obsessed with video games. He just started playing and playing, and he ultimately, like literally, fled in the middle of the night from college, and he didn't tell his parents, and his mom just happened to see that his car was at his friend's house, like he was supposed to be three hours away at college. And she knocked on the door and she saw him, and he was a skeleton of himself. He had literally just knocked the team playing video games, and he's now in this rehab center, doing, you know much better, talking about how that kind of process went for him. And you see in the film, him playing beautiful by heart music on the piano. And you hear him say, I often wonder to myself, if I hadn't been playing so many video games, how much better I would be on the piano. And you can see the reaction of the kid's face, right? They feel it, and they see it, and they think about themselves. What are they giving up to do all of the things that are immediate gratification, that really don't take much of a hurdle to do, and yet, the most meaningful things in our lives are clearly the things that take work.

Casey O'Roarty 44:50
Yeah, that was a powerful part of the movie. Definitely. His story was really powerful. How can people who are listening, how can. They bring screenagers into their community,

Delaney Ruston 45:02
you know? Well, basically, people just go to the screenagers movie website and it'll say, find a screening. There might be one in their community or host a screening. And often what it is is churches or workplaces. It's shown in Google and Facebook and all over but often it's a school in which they will show it to all of their students, and then the evening show it to parents and students, and it's just, you know, so many parents tell me that they're talking about film for weeks afterwards with their kids, and it's, and that's been really great, you know. But, you know, I just want to reiterate, I mean, the reason why it's just to be screened in public is I knew, as I started to make this five years ago, is it's such a major revolution that we're in that it actually defines sustainable solutions. Protect balance in the child and teen brain we're gonna have together. We have to as parents at schools and churches and so I noticed recently that more and more middle schools were allowing kids to carry phones with them all day. And I said, this is, this is a little concerning, because the students would tell me, you know, I go to screenings, and they would tell me, oh yeah, we're always sneaking in in classroom and, and, but that's okay. We're glad we get to use their phone or, you know, or some kids would be like, You know what, I don't have one, and I don't really get to talk to my friends. And made me concerned, so I started to look at the data, which I always do, and yeah, no data whatsoever on the policies of cell phones in middle schools or parents perceptions and what they wanted, too. And ultimately, we did a study and of all school types, but just for the middle school we I wanted to say briefly that we had 1200 parents who responded. And it turns out that 55% of middle schools allow middle schoolers, 11 to 13 year olds, to carry their phone all day, and over 80% of parents don't want kids using cell phones in middle school. And the science really supports that away for the day. Policies for these students actually improves academics and emotional well being. So we are just about to launch next week, a major initiative for parents, again, getting schools and parents everyone to work together, getting parents and teachers and principals to think about their school, their middle school, and if it's not a way for the day, we have tons of tools on the way for the day.org, website that's going to launch very soon. And it's all about giving the tools, giving examples of policies, giving how you make change, how you would create consequences, how you do this and involve the students. So and I also, my favorite part, of course, is there's a lot of videos of students and parents and teachers from schools that have recently changed, and the impact that they're seeing in their school environment from having cell phones now put away. So I think, you know, just as parents and we've been we've been talking about today Casey is like, having our rules, right? Trying to kind of come with some clear guidelines, and trying to stick to them, involving our kids in these conversations, you know, weekly, or however somebody does it. But then also with school, yeah, you know, let's really consider our part in this. So anyway, I've just been excited to get to talk to you about this, and excited that that is launching soon, yeah, and

Casey O'Roarty 48:22
I will make sure that there are links in the show notes to all that. What I really appreciate about what you just said, Delaney, is it's not just Hey schools you know away for the day is what you need to do. But also, here are some ideas around how to make that happen, right? Because, as a former teacher and in relationship with lots of teachers, it's, you know, it's, we don't want to give them just one more thing, right? And so the idea that there are solutions and thoughts and offers tools for them to use, I think, is really powerful. And I it takes a village. It absolutely takes a village. I know that, you know, screenagers has come through my town a couple times. And I think it's time to bring it back again, because we have a whole new crop of kids that are heading in, you know, into that age. And it's I am that parent that texts other parents and says, Hey, I know that. You know, the girls are are sleeping at your house tonight. And here's what we do. Could you please, you know, have them put their phone away by a certain time. Can you and sometimes, and it's amazing to me, you know that it's like, oh, I can do that,

Delaney Ruston 49:28
yeah. And do you see a text? Or do you call them? You just text either or

Casey O'Roarty 49:35
Yeah, but yeah, a lot of times I text because it's easier to have that conversation over text. Delaney,

Delaney Ruston 49:41
but I would be more worried that they're gonna just feel like I'm, I don't know I could only do that in a conversation, because I would feel like they're thinking that I'm I'm kind of controlling too much on the outside where that conversation, but it's great for you, you know, because obviously compassionate people are the ones with boundaries, and you're just you're not telling her what to do, you're just saying what you do. Mm. And, and would she consider it yeah

Casey O'Roarty 50:01
and and full recognition that I am avoiding uncomfortable conversations by sending the text. So I've take that challenge, and the next time I want to text that, I'm going to make it a phone call. So thank you for that. Tell us a little bit about you have a podcast that's going to be launching here soon. Will you tell us a little bit about that?

Delaney Ruston 50:23
Well, it's all thanks to you who's been my coach for this, and I can't thank you enough, but it's going to be called Screen answers, and it'll be at screen and screen answers.org and I'm just going to go deeper into this ever changing landscape of how do we work kids around this? It's really about the stories and science that inspire our best parenting in the digital age. So I look forward to launching that in a few weeks. And Casey, I thank you so much for your mentoring around this. It's been fantastic. Yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 50:58
no problem. I am just, you know, I'm just eager for it to launch, because it's definitely an area that I know as a parent I can continuously stretch and grow and learn from. So thank you for being willing to put it out there. Yeah, yes. So in the context of all that we've talked about today, Delaney, what does joyful courage mean to you?

Delaney Ruston 51:22
Oh, I think, I think life as a Learning Adventure is why we're on this planet. And anytime we can change any opera, any situation, into a learning mentality, it saves the day 100% and so we can only put ourselves in those situations when we have the courage to try something new and to know that when we change our mindset, to realize, Okay, what did I learn from that situation? That's where the real joy comes from.

Casey O'Roarty 51:54
Love it. Thank you. Remind listeners where they can find you and follow your work well,

Delaney Ruston 52:01
screenagersmovie.com or delaneyreston.com

Casey O'Roarty 52:05
Okay, great, and I'll make sure that that is in the show notes. Thank you so much for taking time to talk with me today. This is so great. It's been wonderful. Thank you. Joyful

Delaney Ruston 52:18
courage community. You're

Casey O'Roarty 52:19
amazing. Big thanks and love to my team, including my producer, Chris Mann at pod shaper. Be sure to join in the discussion over at the live in love with joyful courage group page, as well as the joyful courage business page on Facebook and Instagram. Subscribe to the show through Apple podcasts, or really, anywhere you find your favorite podcasts, you can view the current joyful courage swag over at the web page, intention, cards, bracelets, e course offers the membership program, one on one coaching. It's all waiting for you to take a look. Simply head to www dot joyful courage.com/yes. That's joyful courage.com/y. E, S, to find more support for your conscious parenting journey. Any comments or feedback about this show or any others can be sent to [email protected] I personally read and respond to all the emails that come my way, reach out, take a breath, drop into your body, find the balcony seat and trust that everyone is going to be okay.

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