Eps 132: A conversation with Liz Haske about letting go of worry

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Casey O'Roarty 0:00
Music. Hey everybody. Welcome to the joyful courage podcast, a place for information and inspiration on the conscious parenting journey. I am Casey El rurdy, positive discipline trainer, parent coach, and honored to be your guide in the work of showing up as your best for yourself and your family. If you feel as though parenting is one long personal growth and development workshop, you have come to the right place. The conversations you will hear on this podcast are all intended to offer you tools for moving forward, for expanding your lens, for shifting your narrative to one of possibility, connection and empowerment. You can be the parent you want to be. We are influencing the world with how we raise our children. When we bring deep, listening, acceptance and courage to our relationships, we are doing our part to evoke it in the world. I am thrilled to partner with you on this path. I hope you enjoy the show. Hey listeners, welcome back. I'm so excited to be back on with you and to introduce you to this week's guest. Today I have Liz has it has it's actually haskee, okay, there you go. So thank you. Liz haskey is my guest today. She is a mother and international teacher and instructional coach and children's book author. She's had over 15 years of elementary classroom experiences in six different countries, and is super passionate about empowering children to be their most courageous selves. I love that her first book, when worry takes hold was released just this last November 2017 and the story, which is the first in the worries series, aims to help young children cope with worry by using mindful breathing. Hi, Liz, welcome to the podcast.

Liz Haske 2:02
Hi. Thanks so much for having me. It's such an honor to be on your amazing show.

Casey O'Roarty 2:07
Oh, thanks. I'm so glad to have you. Please share a little bit more about your journey of doing what you do. Sure.

Liz Haske 2:14
So I have an amazing daughter who is seven. She's a first grader, and she's currently ripping her way through the Magic Tree House series, which is absolutely my heart is, couldn't be bigger right now, as a literacy teacher, and I have a son who's five, and you know, he is curious and full of wonder and also sometimes big emotions, and they help me be a better person. My husband and I were both international teachers, and right now, we're currently living in Bulgaria. This is our third year here, and it's an amazingly beautiful country, and we're so honored to be a part of this unique and interesting culture. And yeah, I've just released my first book, which has been amazing. It's something I've been dreaming about doing for over 10 years. And I have to say that I'm so thankful to the friend that's, you know, one day when I said, Oh, I want to write a book, you know, for about a 1,000th time, this one friend said to me, then stop talking about it, and just do it. So then I started writing, and here we are now, and it's it's amazing when you have this dream and you actually, you know your determination allows you to do it, and everyone around you just wraps their arms around you and cheers you on. And so it's exciting also, because it's a work of my heart, and I hope that it's helping children in the way that so many of the stories I've read my own children have shaped their lives and and their character. Well,

Casey O'Roarty 3:47
tell us a little bit about, I mean, there's so much that we you know, there's so many great children's books and with so many great focuses and lessons and messages. And yours is about worry. So tell us a little bit about why. Why worry? What was your inspiration? Sure.

Liz Haske 4:04
So when we moved before Bulgaria, we'd been living in Indonesia, and we had been there for six years, my children were born in Jakarta, and that was that's a whole nother interesting experience in itself. Another podcast, giving birth abroad, away from your family and everything, but my my daughter, and she's okay with me sharing this. I've asked her permission, but she was absolutely sunshine and rainbows. She's one of those kids that you spend a short time around her and you feel like a million bucks. She is just so kind and full of so much positive energy. And when we moved to Bulgaria, and you know, new home, new school, new routine, new food, new everything seasons for the first time, worry became a frequent visitor in our home, and mostly at night. And so I did what probably many of your listeners do. I. Went to the library in search of some books that I could kind of use as a conversation starter. And you know, at the time, she was four, turning five, and there just weren't books that she was connecting with. There are some phenomenal children's books about worry and anxiety and being brave, but they just didn't fit where she was and where and what we were experiencing and and so I kind of relied a lot on my strategies as a teacher. And, you know, I did different things, like using social stories, which is from the work of Michelle Garcia winters, and doing some different things to get her to acknowledge worry. And, you know, talking about it. And, you know, I went just strategy after strategy after strategy. And eventually the thing that made the biggest difference for her was just getting her to breathe with me, because she would be absolutely crippled with worry, like it would be time to walk to her class in the morning, and she would just, you know, and she felt safe with her teacher. She she'd, you know, practically been living at the school since we had arrived as we were getting ready for the start of the year. But she was absolutely terrified in her tracks. And once I figured out if I could just get her to breathe with me, her mind would settle, she would be able to think, and then we would be okay. And so that's, you know, that's kind of the basis for the story. Much of what's in the book and what the character experiences is based off of my own experiences, or things that I have experienced with children, either in my class or in my school, that my colleagues. And the funny thing is, at the time when I had this great friend that said, stop talking about it and just do it, there was a morning where it was standing in the hallway, and one of my former students who at the time was a fifth grader, he stopped me and he said, Mrs. Haskey, I want to write a book, I said, and I said, and he said, Could we start a writing club? You know this child, right? I was like, Absolutely. Who else do you want to join? And he was like, no one. He had lunch once a week, he brought his Chromebook and he wrote his time travel novel, as you do when you're a fifth grader. I had to be writing because that was our agreement in this club. And in many ways, that student helped me develop, you know, a writing life outside of the classroom. You know, I write with students all the time, but it's different. And I just found that this was a story that was inside of me just waiting to be nurtured and shared, which is funny that I didn't think of that at the start, because that's what I teach students every day. You know, write the story that's in your heart I should have but yeah, so that's, that's the inspiration for the book. And you know, it's about a young girl that she's afraid to do different things, and she realizes that she has the power inside her, and that if she puts her hands on her belly, she can be brave. And I think that's an important message for kids.

Casey O'Roarty 8:15
I love that you you just shared at the very beginning of that story, when you were talking about your daughter, worry was a frequent visitor. Can you talk a little bit about because that's an explicit context, right? Like worry as a visitor versus, I mean, there's so much freedom there. Because, right, when you think about visitors, you can ask them to leave like they are permanent residents. Talk a little bit about that choice of language. Worry is a

Liz Haske 8:47
visitor, right? So, you know, worry is a thought, or some people might say a feeling, but it comes and it goes, and if you can get children to acknowledge the worry, like I would have my daughter say, Hello, worry. At first it was kind of like, hello, worry, you know, like, I can't believe you're asking me to do this, Mommy. But it acknowledged it. It took away the power. It made it okay, instead of just like saying, you know, man, if you have a child that worries, you won't believe how many times out of your mouth you say, Oh, don't worry. Don't worry. Don't worry. And it's like, actually, we all worry, and we need to just be able to say, Hello, worry, you know, and expect it like, oh, it's bedtime. Is worry here, you know? I remember once taking my daughter to a play date at someone's house She'd never been to, and I remember asking her, is worry with us? And she said, No, he's, he's on a vacation right now. And I said, Oh, Amelia, that would be a great addition to the series, you know? And then we sort of started brainstorming and laughing about it. But, you know, it helps kids externalize and realize it's this thing that I don't have to let. Take hold of my thoughts and my heart,

Casey O'Roarty 10:02
yeah, yeah, temporary, yeah, yeah, and worry presents in all sorts of ways. I mean, some of our kids are really vocal about what's going on. Some of them kind of go inside. Can you talk a bit about your experience and in the classroom and in your life about the different ways that worry presents itself.

Liz Haske 10:25
Oh, absolutely, and it's so diverse. I mean, I really like on some of your previous shows, you know, you've talked about chasing the why or following the why. And I think sometimes when we see students that are acting out or avoiding things or doing things, and then we, if we, if we follow that, why? It helps us see, oh, this is actually a result of worry, and this is how it's manifested. And as a teacher and a parent, some of the things that we might see are the child is seeking reassurance. Often, you know, are you going to be with me? You're going to walk me to my class, right? Do you know where you're going? Those sorts of things. Avoidance is huge. You know, I remember our first year here, my daughter didn't want to go to birthday parties anymore. She the idea that I might not be with her, or she would be in a place she wasn't feeling safe. She just didn't want to go. And I mean, that was that was pretty heartbreaking. Sleep disruption is pretty common, because it's that moment of peace and calm and quiet at night in the dark where worry comes to have a little visit. Some kids will have tantrums, cry, a lot of clinging, especially if it's a preschool child, you know, the clinging to you and not or to a teacher. Some children get stomach aches, especially if it's some sort of academic related worry. And then you'll see, you know, the fear of failure, and just in general, the fear of something new or trying something, yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 12:02
well, and I love what you said at the beginning, when you said chasing the why? So a lot of these things present, you know, and listeners, you've heard me talk about the iceberg metaphor. So this is like, tip of the iceberg. Oh, we're having bedtime issues. Or, you know, my child is is defiant, or they just want attention. You know, we get stuck in the behavior, and we forget that there is so much going on under the surface. And what I'm hearing you speak into is one of those places to consider is, you know, worry, anxiety, not knowing like that, unknown piece like that, is all kind of presenting in the behavior and so getting really clear and curious with our kids around that part of their experience, versus stopping so clinging at drop off and being caught up in that but really finding that underlying issue is really powerful,

Liz Haske 12:56
absolutely. I mean, you know, all I had to do was walk around, you know, walk down the hall to drop Amelia off at her pre K. And when this was happening, because, you know, I was grieving my own students. And then I, you know, I needed to quickly drop her, and then get back to start the day with my own students. And, you know, there was the clinging and the tears sometimes, and the fear and just and it was, it was like, What's going on here?

What? What is this all about? Is this part of our transition, or is this something more? And, you know, there's the short term worries, and then there are the genuine, genuine anxiety and, and, so it's important to kind of step back and take that wide view and have a look like, what's going on here. Yeah, what might, you know? What might this be? And, and, and to look at our children that it's not that they're doing something to us. It's, you know, she didn't do this to make my transition harder, right? It was something that you know, it was a result of all the change and the newness, and that was really tough, well,

Casey O'Roarty 14:10
and I love everything you're saying, because it's not necessarily focusing on fixing the situation as much as it is that long term, big picture of how can like stress is life. Life, there's so many opportunities for newness and transition and the unknown and for change and so really focusing on and we're going to get we're going there. We're going there tools right for our children when stress shows up, tools beyond you know, trying to talk them out of their worries, which we all know is not helpful, but tools to help them and to really be like, Oh, I'm so excited that we're in this, because this is actually giving you an opportunity to practice for. Right,

Liz Haske 15:00
and it's okay, and it's okay to feel this way, right, to acknowledge those feelings. It's so important. And, you know, you flash forward, you know, let's say, two and a half years later, we were at a park downtown. We have this amazing city park. It's like, almost like Central Park, but okay, in Sofia, Bulgaria, and there is a high ropes climbing area within this forest. It's amazing. And my daughter was on, you know, one of the higher levels, and I was with my son on a, you know, on a size appropriate for him. And she didn't know I was watching her. She was with her dad. And I looked over and she, I mean, she had to kind of take a leap to get on this zip line to then go all the way down. I mean, she was, like, almost two stories up, well, or maybe it's my fear of heights, estimating that five stories in the air like a circus trapeze. She was scared. And, I mean, you can, you can see it, right? Yeah, it was so obvious, especially because I'm, like her number one researcher. But what she did is she leaned back against the tree, she put her hands on the belly, on her belly, and she just took some like, calming breaths, and then she opened her eyes, and kind of had this little smirk. And then she did it, and it was like, yes, so when you talk about tools and empowering, you know, obviously the breathing that we've been doing together not only help her when she's worried, you know, in a new situation, but also handling these moments where she's up in the trees trying to challenge herself physically, which she loves. And I think that's so key for our kids, and that's why stories, especially, you know, they imprint in our brain, and they they give us power, and they help us be better people if we are reading the right books. And that's what I'm really excited about with when worry takes hold, is, you know, a lot of feedback is coming in, saying, wow, you know, we read your book, and my I caught my child in his bedroom, and he had his hands on his belly, and he was practicing the breathing. And it's like, okay, yeah, that's, this is what we're going for, right? We want to empower these little people to realize they they can do it. They they can develop the tools and they can be confident, and they can face what is, you know, what is presented to them in healthy and positive ways. Yeah.

Casey O'Roarty 17:37
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Liz Haske 18:44
I think, well, that's a great question. I think let's take some deep breaths. Is just, let's take some deep breaths, like, inhale, exhale, inhale, exhale. And with mindful breathing, it's really focusing your attention on your breath, right? It's like feeling the breath come in through the nostrils. Maybe if a child's taking a deep breath, they're not necessarily going in through the nose. That's something when I I do Skype sessions with classes around the world, and I teach them how to mindfully breathe after I read them the story, and it's about taking air in through the nose and exhaling it through the nose and really focusing your attention on your breath. And I mean, there's amazing research about what that does for our body and our brains. And anyone who practices yoga can relate to the power of just calming your mind with breathing, yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 19:42
well, and I think what I'm hearing too, is, you know, for, for, because I have parents that, you know, I try to do the breathing with them, and we forget that it's not, yeah, it's not just the act of breathing, right? But when, because there's something really special that happens when we say, focus on. Your breath, feel the air coming in your nose, because we we are also able, in that moment, to release the current hold that whatever we're going through has on us, simply by shifting our attention,

Liz Haske 20:14
especially, especially because a lot of worry comes from the what ifs and what might be coming next, and mindful breathing. It allows you to be present, yeah, and you know, in this moment into where you can kind of, okay, it's going to recenter yourself. It's actually going to take your brain from, say, the red zone, back to the green, and then you're going to be able to go, Okay, I'm safe and I'm loved. And that's another thing i Yeah, you know. And that's another thing I did with my daughter. It's like, okay, let's breathe and now tell me I'm safe and I'm loved, right? That importance of self talk and aging through the breathing, yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 20:55
love that we used to my little boy was, he's not so little anymore. He's the same size as I am. It's crazy. But when he was smaller, and still, even now, we talk about having knots in the belly. That's one of the visuals. And so when we've practiced breath, the exhale becomes the knots, you know, coming untied, or butterflies in the belly, and the exhale actually lets the butterflies release out of our body. So those have been some strategies that we have used with and that I use myself, right? Because also I work with parents. I know you're out there who it's like, 10 deep breaths is just not enough. And it's like, well, if we're standing there hyperventilating, no, it's not going to be that helpful. But if it's really, if you're really being intentional, just like you were just saying, and really feeling the act of breathing and bringing your attention to the intake of the fresh air and the exhale, the giving back of what's been inside, that's what is going to be helpful to release that grip. So I think, and we were talking a little bit before the show, I think, you know, and and you are saying worry, right? And worry can often, language wise, morph into anxiety, and then anxious. My child is anxious. My child is worried into my child is anxious. My child's really anxious. My child has an anxiety disorder. I think that that path is getting like quicker and quicker that that is getting more traveled by parents who well meaning, loving, just wanting to help their children, but really curious, in your experience, what are the distinguishing factors of this is a worry, and I can support my child versus Okay, it's time for professional help.

Liz Haske 22:52
Sure. I think that if you have a concern, number one, you know, chase the why. And you know, look at what's going on. Is this sort of a is this a new thing? Is this? Is there something that might be triggering this, like, in our case, a move or, you know, did they start a new school year? And have a look at that. But then, you know, I think signs that you need some help beyond your community and your circle of support would be if there is a significant amount of time spent worrying over a long period of time, and it's not just like you saw some kind of scary image in a you know, and you're afraid of the dark, it's actually interfering with the child's life, and it's crippling, you know, in my case, I didn't end up needing to seek the help of a professional, but there were times where I was really, really worried. And it's funny, because in the book, or not funny, it's interesting. In the book, i i There's a part where the parents are worrying about the worry, and I think that's something that you know, anyone who has a child who's had a bit of the worries, or who has a legitimate anxiety disorder we all can relate to that that is all consuming. Right? Worry gets bigger and bigger the more that we do it, and the more that it takes over our lives. And so I think sometimes we trust our parenting gut, but other times we need to really look at, you know, is this significant? Is it interfering with the life? Have you seen a huge change in their personality and their behavior? Are there other factors that play? And I would say a first step would be to connect with a school counselor, or, if you're homeschooling, to draw on your other supports in your in your group, and also to check with parents that have kids of the similar agency, are they experiencing something similar? Because in our case, a lot of that anxiety was related to separation, yeah, right, yeah, which is very common when you're in preschool, in kindergarten, and, you know, I have had many people say, Oh yes, we went through that, you know. And so that's. That's, that's really important. And one thing I did to kind of help myself see how, how big was this is I created a log. And this is, you know, kind of drawing on who I am as a teacher. I I consider myself more of a researcher than a teacher, but I created a log so it had like, the date, the time, what happened just before, what was the, you know, the the worry, what was, what were the physical behaviors that I saw? What strategy did we try to use to get through it? And I put it in a Google document, and I shared it with my child's teacher and the counselor, and they never really contributed to it, because they didn't, they didn't experience the drop off right in the morning. They weren't there. They weren't there at bedtime. They didn't need to, but at least kept them in the loop. And it really helped me see, oh, look, it's mostly related to this. So if we can really empower her here, you know, that's the key. And and then I knew, Okay, this is something that we can handle as a family.

Casey O'Roarty 26:01
I love that you did that. I think because I think that it's so easy to feel like everything is crazy,

or nothing is working, or we're always, you know, that extreme, and when we really break it down, however that looks right for you, it's a Google doc spreadsheet. Yeah? For someone else, it might be just journaling at the end of the day. Or for someone else, it might just be just that idea of, oh, yeah, I'm gonna look for patterns. I'm gonna, you know, and keeping it in the head, whatever works to help you look, because, yeah, that it's so key to start to notice what does and again, this is that under the iceberg piece right, what does happen right before that happens. Or, you know, what is the experience? And sometimes, when I work with parents, the question is, what is your physical experience when you get triggered and really getting really recognized and like, oh, I always respond the same way. It's always the same physical experience. What comes out of my mouth might not be the same, right, but starting to notice patterns. Because I think we all feel really empowered when we have that moment of, oh, just like you said, Oh, this is connected to those moments when we have to say goodbye or good night, and that is like it's something to anchor us into for then moving into empowering our kids. I love that,

Liz Haske 27:35
yeah, we have to understand first, right? And yeah, and of course, that patience and loving all the way through, right? It's, it gets it can get really stressful. If you have a child or a student that worries, it's draining, and especially if you're like in our case, you know I was going through a transition as well. And it's, it's draining and it's exhausting, but more than anything, that child needs you to wrap your arms around them and love them and just be there and not just try to reassure them and say it's going to be okay. It's going to, you know, everything's going to be fine, because then they're going to look to you for their reassurance. Instead, they need you to love them and show them that what they need, yeah, that's right. They what they need is right there with them. Yeah. Just have to nurture it a bit sometimes.

Casey O'Roarty 28:23
So quick story, I remember when my daughter was in preschool her first year, she loved it, and she was a pretty quiet conservative. She was an observer back then, and, you know, wanted to do the right thing, but loved going to preschool. It was never, maybe the first day was a little bit, oh my gosh, you're dropping me off. She was three and a half. And then after that, it was fine. And about two months in, all of a sudden, I would drop her off, and she would just the T the crocodile tears. She didn't want me to go. And it took a couple weeks to figure out that they had had a fire drill, Oh, yes. And it was, it wasn't one that they, they did not prepare the preschoolers. And I don't know, you know, it's still kind of up in the air. Was it the sound, or was it just like, there could be a fire? Yeah, there might be a fire. And then for a while, everywhere we went, she would notice the fire alarm pullers and the things on the ceiling. She was so conscious of that and but yeah, figuring it was so much easier to help her once I realized, like, oh, okay, I know what this is about, and we're gonna support her in you know, and the same happened with my son, where I read some book about strangers and staying safe, and I was it was very poorly delivered by me saying, like, Hey you guys, I just want it was like breakfast out of nowhere. I just want you to know if anyone ever tries to grab you, you can kill. Kick and bite and hit and do all the things we tell you not to do. And my little boy looked at me with these big eyes, and he said,

Speaker 1 30:06
somebody's gonna try to grab me. And then for months, he got mom,

Casey O'Roarty 30:12
and we lived in this tiny, little house, and if I wasn't in the same room, where are you? Where are you? Where are you, you know, and recognizing, gosh darn it, I did this. I

Liz Haske 30:21
know, right? There's so many moments as a parent where something with the best of intentions is coming out of my mouth, and I'm just, I mean, to put that back, and what did I do? Right? And I mean, but that's again, it's all a journey, and we're learning too. Yeah, they're making us better people.

Casey O'Roarty 30:42
Yeah. Well, what other projects do you have planned? What else is coming up from you?

Liz Haske 30:46
Okay, so right now my next book is in this revision stage, just I have an amazing little network of readers and teachers and librarians that are giving me my first round of feedback. And the title is, worry. Moves on, and so we will, we will meet a new character who experiences school worry like fear of failure and sort of the typical stresses that students face because of the expectations they kind of put on themselves, or perhaps sometimes the grown ups in their lives do. And I mean, this is something every year for the past 15 plus years, I have seen in students who, you know, those kids that just hold back because they would just rather not fail than try and it not be the way that they wanted. And so I'm really hopeful that this book will hook some of those kids and help them recognize it in themselves and have some tools to be brave and take risks. Yeah, I love that.

Casey O'Roarty 31:50
What are the age of the kids? Like your readers? Who are you intending to read your book?

Liz Haske 31:56
So when Maureen takes hold this elementary age, I think it's a great book for preschool to grade three. But I have to say, like fifth graders absolutely love it, too. And I think the reason is it's very relatable. It uses very simple text, but the illustrations, my illustrator in Seongnam, she is amazing, and the level of detail, and it's just a stunningly beautiful book, and it's so relatable. So whether you know your your five or or 11 kids have experienced worry and and you can see them nodding their heads like, you know, it was great, like kids at school. Oh, this is just like me, you know. And I've even had a few adults write me and even say, you know, I think there might even be a few reviews on Amazon like this, to say, this is not just a book for kids, this is a book for adults too, right? To remind us that we can breathe and we can be brave and that everyone has worries. So I think it's a very important message, yay.

Casey O'Roarty 32:57
I can't wait to get my hands on this book, I'm so excited to share it with others and to share it within my family. Do you have any other final thoughts for listeners before we wrap up?

Liz Haske 33:09
I would say just, you know, be kind to yourself. We're all going through our own thing and you know, end of the day, our kids still love us. And just be kind to yourself and be kind to your kids and and chase the why, and, you know, reach out to the people around you. I think just we can all be brave, whether it's helping our kids be brave or us being brave to face whatever parenting challenge it may be. Well,

Casey O'Roarty 33:36
I think that's a great lead up to my final question that I always end with, which you know is coming in the context of all that we have talked about, what does joyful courage mean to you? Liz, so I'm going

Liz Haske 33:49
to answer it in two parts. I'd say the first way, which is for me personally, is, you know, finally having the courage to do something I've been dreaming about for over 10 years, and the absolute joy of going through the learning process, of taking an idea and turning it into something that kids can hold in their hands and hopefully read and become better because of it. So that is absolutely joyful courage. But then I think it's also in the context of kids, and it's the feeling that they get when they face their fear and they realize how empowered they are. What you know, it might not be breathing as their strategy, but perhaps, you know, when worry takes hold, might be a book that just starts a conversation with them and an adult in their life that you know, yeah, you know what I do get a bit worried. Let's try this breathing thing. And oh, you know what? This breathing thing isn't working for me. But then there's now this opening for more tools to be introduced, because it's something that's been brought to the surface. And so, you know, the book ends with courage is just a deep breath away. And so I kind of think that when children can you. When children can realize this and they're empowered, there's really a pure sense of pride and joy in being brave and and finding courage, and so that's kind of what it means to me. Thank you, beautiful question. I love that.

Casey O'Roarty 35:14
Thank you so much for all that you do for families and for kids. Where can listeners find you and follow your work? You mentioned that when worry takes hold? Is on Amazon. Yep,

Liz Haske 35:26
it's on all major booksellers, right, right? So on Barnes and Noble, you know, we can name, we can go down the list, and then I'm fairly active on Twitter. If anyone is a teacher that's listening, you might want to check out the information on my webpage, which is www Liz haskey. That's H, A, S, k, e.com, because I have some free printable resources. I have a poster for mindful breathing. I have some sweet little printable bookmarks, which parents are most welcome to to use as well. And another exciting thing that I do is I do Skype book tours. So just this morning, I got up early and I I met with a class in Kenya, in Nairobi, and I right. And so tomorrow I talked to a class in London. And so it's a really great opportunity for anyone who's working with children, because, to meet an author, and especially one that hopefully is going to give them a tool. You know, the teacher wrote me back today said I used your technique during the next lesson when a child gets stressed and so, yeah, so my website and I'm also active on Twitter at Liz haskey author and Facebook under the same handle as well. Awesome, yay. Well,

Casey O'Roarty 36:43
thank you so much for taking time to chat with me. I know it's like, what time is it? Where you are, it's

Liz Haske 36:49
836, at night. So we're still okay. We're gonna turn into a pumpkin pet. Okay,

Casey O'Roarty 36:53
good. Well, thank you. Thank you for working with my time constraints and being willing to come on. I can't wait to read your book. So appreciate you.

Liz Haske 37:01
Oh, thank you such an honor and a pleasure. And I so appreciate the beautiful content you provide for your listeners. You are absolutely amazing. So thank you, yay. Thank

Casey O'Roarty 37:11
you, joyful courage community, you're amazing. Big. Thanks and love to my team, including my producer, Chris Mann at pod shaper, be sure to join in the discussion over at the live in love with joyful courage group page, as well as the joyful courage business page on Facebook and Instagram. Subscribe to the show through Apple podcasts, or really, anywhere you find your favorite podcasts, you can view the current joyful courage swag over at the web page and tension cards, bracelets. E course offers the membership program, one on one coaching. It's all waiting for you to take a look. Simply head to www dot joyful courage.com/yes. That's joyful courage.com/y. E, S to find more support for your conscious parenting journey. Any comments or feedback about this show, or any others can be sent to [email protected] I personally read and respond to all the emails that come my way. Reach out, take a breath, drop into your body, find the balcony seat and trust that everyone is going to be okay.

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